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12:00 AM
user image
5
 
12:18 AM
96 cores
 
@Mikhail Do you have those in your chest hair?
 
each one is $9k
“Conflict free” means “DRC conflict free”, which is defined by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission rules to mean products that do not contain conflict minerals (tin, tantalum, tungsten and/or gold) that directly or indirectly finance or benefit armed groups in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) or adjoining countries.
 
Those are the only ones with no inactive cores. The HCC die only has 24 cores. None of the dual-socket ones have them all enabled.
 
@Mikhail Yeah, I thought it was some instruction set or something.
 
12:22 AM
Fake news surely?
 
@Borgleader I hope not
 
@Borgleader There's multiple sites, but none of them are from credible names.
But doesn't fake news tend to go in the other direction?
 
nwp
@Borgleader Sounds harmless enough to be real.
 
At least it's specific enough that you can dig further if you want. Since they give the name of a congressman.
 
the pdf document linked is a mess though
 
12:29 AM
@ratchetfreak Can't be worse than Trump's presidency ;)
 
12:57 AM
Perhaps overlooked today: the congressional oversight committee brought down the hammer on the Ivanka bullshit: https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Letter-to-OGE-re-Conway-Endorsement-FINAL.pdf
 
1:18 AM
@LucDanton Wow we hadn't heard that name in ages
 
@Mysticial It was in something like a 2:3 ratio during the election
 
@Borgleader This seems at least somewhat credible:
 
Has someone posted the news on the stop on the Muslim ban being upheld?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes From what I understand, the .docs TLD belongs to Google so they are free not to sell domains to the general public?
 
@jaggedSpire you're my favorite mystery <3
:P
 
1:24 AM
@Borgleader <3 <3 <3
 
@JerryCoffin Oh damn. The last season of America just got more interesting.
 
Apparently the argument that the court system couldn't overrule Trump's executive order had the remarkable effect of making the decision to maintain the stop unanimous
 
Everything is going according to plan. Trump throws up a smoke screen by starting a fight on an issue that isn't worth much (the Muslim ban), but gets away with a ton of crazy stuff like his conflicts of interests and nominations. He might loose the Muslim ban but wins a lot more. Its fucking 4D chess and the democrats are loosing.
 
@Mikhail eh, I'm not so sure. His nominations so far have squeaked by with record low support, and I'm pretty sure they're starting to put together impeachment material.
 
He can't actually be kicked out unless Republicans kick him out, everything else is theater.
 
Two GOP senators have already split from the herd on DeVos
By no means does that mean they'll back an impeachment, nor does it means things aren't on fire right now, but Trump's overstepping his bounds and he's stepping on more than Liberal toes.
 
1:55 AM
It'd be a hard to break record, not even a month until impeachment
 
@jaggedSpire As I've pointed out before, I'm pretty sure there are a fair number of republicans in congress who'd really rather Mike Pence was president.
 
Wait, what the heck
std::initializer_list has the non member function std::rbegin overload/specialization but not the corresponding member function?
I stay away 1 year from C++ and everything goes to shit?
 
@Shoe It was already shit, you just didn't notice it before ;)
 
:)
 
2:34 AM
god, the compile times
 
unicore ... unicorn ... so close yet so different
 
The only fix for division, especially integer division, is to return division objects
Fuck, it took me a few hours to derive and implement a regularizer for a 3d image reconstruction algorithm. But smooth 2D scrolling is taking over a day...
 
2:50 AM
@Mikhail Or just find a way to achieve the same without the divisions.
 
Yeah, I think thats what the talk was about (can't watch because still at work...)
 
The thing is that Alexandrescu's tips only become meaningful after you've eliminated the "obvious waste" (like allocations, accidental container copies, bad code, etc..). A talk about how to eliminate the obvious waste is what the 99% needs.
Martin Thompson works as a consultant for performance improvement. Most of the time he finds that the excessive logging is the major bottleneck.
Logging!
 
Some of Alexandrescu's tips are bullshit. For example "prefer unsigned to signed". You're going to have a bad day.
 
Dunno about that. I've never seen real situation where that made a difference. (Apart from micro benchmarks.)
 
I'm talking about bugs, and underflow. If you stick on the int train you won't have these problems. Indeed, that is why Java forbid unsigned int like types.
 
2:59 AM
If you don't know how to unsigned, then yeah.
 
That can be said about everything (even pointers!), our goal in life isn't to make things difficult...
 
The first time I used unsigned I wrote bugs. Suddenly my Tetris blocks disappeared from the screen. But that was back in 2003.
Quickly got the hang of it.
 
Same. Unsigned takes some getting used to. But now I almost exclusively use unsigned integers.
 
What did you gain? In a way you actually lost type safety!
 
@Mysticial Really?
 
3:03 AM
@Mikhail unsigned arithmetic is not less type-safe then signed. It just follows different rules.
 
Formally sure, but those rules don't match our intuition about numbers - so they are less safe (for obvious reasons).
 
It started off as a semantic thing. Unsigned was a visual indicator that something cannot be negative. Later on it was more about syntactic correctness and, to a lesser extent, performance. Signed integers are UB in almost everything. And they are slower to divide by.
 
I went the other way, and found that negative values are a good way to indicate "undefined state" or "uninitialized state". I have a lot of if (old_value != new_value){reallocate();}
 
Yeah. We have some code where we make snapshots every second. A colleague once wrote code to detect that a second had passed using division a multiply and then division again. Those were int64_t divisions and the actual values where really large (Unix epoch in ns resolution). It caused a big drop in performance. (The packet processing speed dropped from 10G to 7.5G.)
 
So I have been messing with this for most of the last... 6 hours or so
0
Q: How to Create Instance of a Python Object with boost::python

capsSuppose I have a Python class like so: class MyPythonClass: def Func1(self, param): return def Func2(self, strParam): return strParam If I want to embed the Python script that contains that class in my C++ code, create an instance of that object via my C++ code, and the...

 
3:08 AM
There's more than just that though:
- Agner Fog mentions that sign-extensions cannot be register-renamed unlike unsigned-extensions.
- Unsigned integers can inhibit certain loop optimizations where the compiler needs to correctly handle the overflow case.
I've never observed the performance impacts of either case in practice.
 
Have you ever had an underflow bug :-)
 
Scalar conversions of unsigned <-> float/double are slower than signed since there's no instruction for unsigned.
 
@Mikhail Yes, but not in a way that could have been fixed by using signed integers.
 
I don't know if any of you have experience using boost::python, but if you do...
I would appreciate your help.
 
3:11 AM
@StackedCrooked Not only that, but even dividing by a compile-time constant is slower with signed than unsigned since the multiply-by-inverse trick needs to handle both cases.
 
Huh? The compiler knows the constant is positive or negative.
 
@StackedCrooked The dividend, not the divisor.
 
Oh wait. You mean the type of the non-constant.
Ah.
@Mikhail FYI "overflow" and "underflow" are terminology used to indicate error conditions (UB) in signed or FP types. Unsigned types don't have this UB. They don't overflow, they "wrap".
 
@StackedCrooked also stacks
 
@Shoe member .rbegin()/.rend() should never have been a thing in the first place
non-member rbegin() is essentially std::make_reverse_iterator(end(whatever))
 
3:18 AM
@Shoe It shouldn't even have begin and end members.
 
@Mysticial Interesting.
I always use unsigned integers for loop indices in order to avoid the annoying signed/unsigned comparison warning.
The signed to unsigned "promotion" rule sucks so badly.
 
@StackedCrooked With unsigned integers, the compiler needs to do addition checks/branching before it can safely unroll a loop.
 
That sucks..
 
For example:
    for (size_t c = 0; c < length; c++){
        array[c] = ...
    }
Cannot legally be optimized to:
for (size_t c = 0; c < length - 1; c += 2){
    array[c + 0] = ...
    array[c + 1] = ...
}
if (c < length){
    array[c] = ...
}
 
That's super sucky.
 
3:23 AM
It would need to branch on (length == 0) before it could do that.
 
So I'll need to write for (auto i = 0; i != static_cast<int>(vec.size()); ++i) { ... }
@Mysticial I see.
It could however, also use c + 1 < length.
Oh wait.
 
what?
 
c can wrap too
dammit. pesky unsigned.
 
I find myself writing std::make_signed<decltype(some_vector)::size_type>::type(some_vector.size()) ... This line was so ugly, the question got closed on the CodeReview SO
 
deservedly
:P
 
3:29 AM
The only unsigned vs. signed loop-optimization difference that ever had a measurable impact on performance for me was this case:
The code is written as:
__m256i* ptr = ...;
for (size_t c = 0; c < length; c++){
    ptr[c] = ...
}
And the compiler cannot optimize it to:
__m256i* ptr = ...;
__m256i* stop = ptr + length;
for (; ptr < stop; ptr++){
    ptr[0] = ...
}
without introducing an extra induction variable.
 
Can the compiler generate two branches? I think the Cray compiler did that.
 
I'll note that the __m256i has something to do with it.
 
Alexandrescu on baselines. That's really solid advice despite seeming obvious.
 
3:43 AM
I read that as 'Writing Fat Code'
 
4:31 AM
@caps woot! I figured it out. Clunky though:
0
A: How to Create and Use Instance of a Python Object with boost::python

capsThis is what ultimately worked for me. namespace python = boost::python; python::object main = python::import("main"); python::object mainNamespace = main.attr("__dict__"); //add the contents of the script to the global namespace python::object script = python::exec_file(path_to_my_script, main...

 
5:01 AM
 
lmao those flags
 
wtf
 
> This user has been automatically suspended for posting inappropriate content and cannot chat for 3 hours 59 minutes.
 
Can anybody check if this is a dupe, I'm in Linux? stackoverflow.com/questions/42151976/…
 
5:19 AM
@Mikhail lol this guy
tbh I'd like to know how to enable such hints
never had any when writing assembly in VS
also whether they can handle hints for SSE
 
why are you even writing assembly in 2017? you should be doing javascript
12
 
wasm
Fun Fact: wasm binary encoding is actually ASCII
 
6:11 AM
gosh 40 degrees here today & tomorrow
I yet to see a website written in Assembly ...
 
 
1 hour later…
7:30 AM
@AldwinCheung benis joeks again?
 
 
1 hour later…
8:39 AM
@caps I agree, but if you build fucking concepts around it, you might as well be consistent
 
Whoa
peope here?
 
@milleniumbug the distinction between member functions and non member functions should have never been a thing in the first place
I don't know why access to private data has to require a different syntax
Somehow Haskell manages without
Oh, inheritance I guess
 
@Shoe What do you mean?
 
@VermillionAzure member functions, why do they exist?
 
@Shoe OOP and coupling to class designs is a thing?
I mean, how else would you do things?
You could do the Rust way of interfaces or Java's "interface" model I suppose... But it's not like it's too different
 
8:51 AM
What specifically of those things requires a different syntax for function call?
 
@Shoe So are you talking about the syntax or the existence of member functions as a language feature?
Because the syntax part I can agree that a uniform call method would've been nice
 
yeah that
I need to use the dictator on my computer
 
@Shoe Oh then I see we agree
I believe there was some sort of proposal for a universal call syntax IIRC
 
It S you see Kay
Are you kidding me?
@VermillionAzure yes but it was the other way around
 
@Shoe wait what do you mean by that
 
8:55 AM
Regular functions were converted to member functions
So you could call regular functions with the member function syntax
 
Oh.
That's actually kind of weird
 
"Syntax" Apparently is particularly difficult to synthesise
@VermillionAzure don't quote me on that
 
I've thought about how you might do that, but it gets a bit hard to do once you play around with arguments with different arity and return arity
e.g. (int int) => (int) that's then called with an (float int) ==> (float)
 
I only remember that I wanted to forget about member functions and the proposal went the complete opposite way
 
 
2 hours later…
11:00 AM
Hello, I need to know really quick, for a school project I need to submit tomorrow. Why am I getting a 'read access violation' here? (I don't even know what a read access violation is). Here's the relevant code: pastebin.com/LxA5wy19 (line 29)
 
while(!file.eof()) is wrong.
 
What do you mean?
 
It's just wrong. You don't want to do that 99.99% of the time.
Did you teacher taught you to do that?
 
Um, well, what should I do instead?
Yes. xD
 
while(<read operation here>)
 
11:03 AM
Oh.....
Well, lemme try that then :P
 
.eof() tells you if the last read operation tried to read past the end, which means the last read operation already failed.
But in your loop, things still happen even though the read failed.
 
Ah, ok, makes sense.
 
But still, it won't work because you can't read std::strings from file like that.
 
11:17 AM
Memory corruption. So great. Something in your code(or in a dll?) takes a dump, and you only see where the shit hits the fan in debugger...
Today in official organisation accounts
 
nwp
11:36 AM
I just accidentally hit CTRL+B to build on coliru and it actually builds.
 
Ugh, I keep forgetting std::optional is not in C++14.
 
11:52 AM
@AldwinCheung All of the new fancy TLDs belong to the highest bidder, more or less.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
best mouse design ever
 
nwp
@rightfold nah
 
user1804599
12:16 PM
@nwp awful design
 
user1804599
Not even a backup heart, lol.
 
user1804599
God do you even redundancy.
 
what's a god
 
12:54 PM
I got myself a tablet
it's very nice how everything looks so PC like especially when browsing
chrome looks like chrome on PC and sites default to desktop vers
 
1:08 PM
the beauty when you fixed 2 bugs in the top layer, then 58 bugs in the lower layer surface
 
the beauty when you don't add bugs to your code
 
I didn't ... compiler found more ... it's complicated ~_~
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's extremely concerning to say the least.
 
nwp
1:23 PM
@Telkitty those are some interesting bugs
 
I think you deserve a closer look:
 
nwp
@Telkitty is that the bug tracker?
 
that thing eats bugs, yes
 
SEE YOU IN COURT, THE SECURITY OF OUR NATION IS AT STAKE!
Now he brought the capital letters into this.
 
Because it's a capital matter!
 
nwp
1:37 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think that is the first tweet I see from trump that I agree with.
 
1:47 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Dear diary, today I sued the court"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Dear god
 
2:16 PM
Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system. People pouring in. Bad!
Bad!
 
gosh, I wish I could block tweets from certain people on these chats
I do not want to see anything resembles to this:
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah yes, witness the dignity of my country's new president as he screeches threats of court at the court from his social media account.
14
Truly, it's simply breathtaking to see such grace and humility.
@Telkitty D: but kitties are so wonderful to see
:P
 
2:41 PM
@Rapptz Yeah, man. The judge single handedly disbanded the customs checks across the globe. It's irresponsible. Next time a judge will probably mandate that people who don't want to commit terrorist attacks have to wait in line, so that the terrorists can enter more quickly
 
nwp
SO just asked me to solve a captcha before letting me answer a question.
What will we do when that happens to robot?
 
Star his bemused remark in chat.
 
We will yawn. Mechanically
 
well, time for work.
 
3:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Let him speed up. The faster he is, the louder the noise will be when he inevitably crashes into a wall.
 
@milleniumbug But the wall isn't built yet!
 
...right
:D
 
3:40 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd say you never actually want to do that. You can patch around it to cover up how it's broken, but even then it's still really broken. In every situation I can recall, there was always a better way.
 
4:12 PM
@Borgleader -- no, it doesn't "always" decay. It's exactly this kind of sloppiness that gets beginners (and sometimes more advanced programmers) in trouble. — Pete Becker 48 secs ago
Ugh, he's not wrong... but why do I feel like this is needless pedantry anyway? -.-;
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe he was tweeting from the capitol?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Obligatory.
 
@fredoverflow Wait that's literally every interaction with me
 
5:13 PM
@Borgleader Keep in mind that Pete was the editor for C++11 standard. He is pedantic. He might sometimes apply it where it's unnecessary, but he also puts it to good use.
 
5:31 PM
@Mysticial is HFT a zero-sum game?
Assuming two companies have equally good algorithms but company A is slightly faster than B. Will this cause B to go out of business? What if B improves its speed and becomes faster than A. Will this be bad for A?
 
Xeo
only if they trade the same stocks, I guess?
 
Hm, good point.
 
@StackedCrooked Depends on who you define the players.
 
How so?
 
Yes, HFTs are competing with each other, but they are also affected by everyone else in the market including casual traders and hedge funds.
Just because one HFT suddenly makes more money doesn't necessarily mean it comes out of the other HFTs. It can come out of anywhere in the market.
 
5:40 PM
If you sell stocks do you know beforehand how much money you'll get? I.e is it possible that the small time window between deciding on selling and the transaction the price has changed?
 
Depends on the order type.
If you do a limit order, then you pay no more than X to buy, or sell for no less than X. So if the market suddenly swings in the wrong direction, you won't get a shitty price for it.
But you aren't guaranteed to get the order filled.
If you enter a market order, then it will fill at whatever price it is when it gets to the exchange.
 
I see. Interesting.
 
how much money is a typicla order?
 
@Mysticial It's kinda like a CAS operation :P
 
@JohanLarsson Depends on what you're trading.
A medium-sized HFT trading futures might sweep an entire level of 500 ES contracts. That's about 50 million in value. But in practice you only need to post around 5% margin. (unless it's election night or something)
 
5:46 PM
hmm, gonna need to read that a couple of times :)
 
I'm less familiar about equities and stocks since the rules are different. They tend to be asymmetrical with long and short positions.
@JohanLarsson ES is the e-mini S&P. It's a true zero-sum game. You're betting on the S&P index on a certain date.
 
@wilx you do LaTeX, right?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes A bit, yes. I ain't no guru.
 
Any idea how I can get the Unicode small caps block to render properly on LaTeX without changing the source?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You need a font that supports them.
 
5:50 PM
Basically the bits "(U+02DB ᴏɢᴏɴᴇᴋ)" here ogonek.readthedocs.io/en/devel/about.html#trivia
 
@StackedCrooked An example of where it isn't zero-sum within HFT would be this: HFT taking from hedge funds.
 
@wilx Where can I look it up?
 
When a hedge fund wants to drop a very large order, they do it across multiple exchanges to minimize the price impact.
However, if they don't do it at the same time (within light-speed travel time), the HFTs will see one order on one exchange. They'll anticipate a similar order on the other exchanges, and will trade-accordingly to profit off of the hedge fund about to drop the large order.
 
From the hedge fund's POV, they want to buy a million shares of Apple @ $130 but split up 100k shares for each of 10 exchanges.
 
5:52 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would definitely use XeLaTeX or LuaLaTeX if you can.
 
Yeah, I'm using XeLaTeX.
 
But the moment they place one order for 100k @ $130 on exchange A, the price on all the other exchanges rises to $140 because of the HFTs.
 
If you are generating the LaTeX from some source then you should be able to supply your own preamble bits and do any necessary adjustments there.
 
Yeah, that's what I'll looking into.
Thanks.
Haha, not quite.
I need a way to specify fallback fonts.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am afraid that cannot easily (or at all) be done.
What you can do is to postprocess the LaTeX and wrap code ranges that need different font with font switch or language switch or such.
@R.MartinhoFernandes What font is it?
 
6:05 PM
@wilx The main is "Times"; the one that has the small caps is "Helvetica Neue". (I just took the default fonts from Firefox settings)
It seems that ucharclasses can do something like this for whole blocks, but the small caps are spread all over three or four blocks :<
 
what is a block in context?
 
Unicode block.
In Unicode, a block is defined as one contiguous range of code points. Blocks are named uniquely and have no overlap. They have a starting code point of the form hhh0 and an ending code point of the form hhhF. A block explicitly can include code points that are unassigned and non-characters. Code points not belonging to any of the named blocks, e.g. in the unassigned planes 3–13, have the value block="No_block". Conversely, every assigned code point has a property "Block name", which names in which block the character is. This is determined by the code point only, although a block name will have...
 
are the parts of 1/3 a block?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So you basically want Times and Arial or similar. OK. :)
 
@wilx I think sphinx (the generator) supports output-specific alternatives right in the source, so I'll probably just do that.
 
6:10 PM
@JerryCoffin That's a good point. It's just in 99% of cases it decays, in that case afaik it did decay. Clearly OP was "a noob" so I felt it wasn't really warranted? Or maybe it's just because I was the one who was targetted ;)
 
And then I can just use \textsc{...} directly.
@JohanLarsson No. Blocks are sections of the space of Unicode code points.
I.e. subsets of the entire character set.
 
oh, thanks
 
(Named, non-overlapping, contiguous, 16-aligned, subsets)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, you can do that.
Also, \setsansfont{Noto Sans} and I do get it rendered properly. It basically depends on the font having the slots populated.
 
Xeo
Hey robot
You've dealt with ICU before, right?
 
6:25 PM
in TeX, LaTeX and Friends on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 57 secs ago, by egreg
@wilx Strange. There are no LATIN LETTER SMALL CAPITAL Q and X in Unicode.
^ @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
@Mysticial Do the HFT's know the source of the buy order?
@Xeo Even assuming he has, you don't expect him to admit to it in public, do you? :-)
 
6:41 PM
Some of my clothes are becoming a bit tight.
 
@JerryCoffin No. Way back you used to know who you traded with. But that was stopped presumably because it allowed people to discriminate.
 
@Borgleader I can see both sides of this one. On one hand, it's true that it wouldn't have decayed in this particular case. At the same time, I've answered a fair number of questions that originated from an assumption that decayalways happens.
@Mysticial Seems like a simple way for a big player to manipulate the market then: you have some stock you want to sell, so you start by putting in a buy order for 100K of that stock on one exchange. Wait a few ms, and dump the whole chunk (including the 100K you just bought) at the inflated price.
 
@JerryCoffin Ok. I'll do it!
 
@StackedCrooked I always knew you were crooked.
 
Maybe regulations don't allow that.
 
6:48 PM
@StackedCrooked If attempts at manipulation like that weren't allowed, every HFT would be out of business already.
 
I'm also good at betting. Double or nothing until I win is unbeatable :)
 
@StackedCrooked Thus the existence of table limits.
 
@JerryCoffin I think the catch is that you can't sell if you don't have a buyer. It's unlikely that's you can find one that will accept 100K at the inflated price.
 
When you get cozy in your bed with your laptop, but you need to get out of the sheets to get some random item ç_ç
 
Not sure if my assumptions are right though.
(Does selling stocks require a buyer?)
 
6:51 PM
I hope so.
 
@StackedCrooked To inflate the price, the HFTs have to buy a fair amount. They're assuming your first order is (say) 20% of what you're planning to buy, so they try to buy it up first, so they can sell it to you at a higher price. In this case, you're buying just enough to trigger them to buy, then you sell them your stock.
 
don't they play games like that all the time?
 
@JerryCoffin The buyer would end up losing money. I read that HFTs have certain safety mechanisms to shut down the system if things start to go wrong. However, not sure how they'd apply it in this situation.
 
@JohanLarsson I think so. HFT originally started out as trying to predict where the market was headed, and buying stocks before they went up. Now, the tail wags the dog, so the market goes there because they've predicted that it will. This is why speed has become so critical. It's now (largely) about my figuring out what you'll predict before you do, so by the time you buy stock X, I've already bought it, and you buy it from me (at a somewhat higher price).
 
but you would never do that to me right?
 
7:00 PM
@StackedCrooked It's certainly true that HFTs have been doing this for quite a while, and any that don't do the job pretty well go out of business pretty quickly. Nonetheless, they do make some assumptions that could probably be turned against them under the right circumstances.
@JohanLarsson Me? Not likely. You have to be able to throw around large amounts of money to do things like this. My wife considers it her duty to assure I never have large amounts of money.
 
how are things with the wife?
and is it the same wife?
 
@StackedCrooked I believe that is actually allowed. What's not allowed is placing an order which you do not intend to trade. For example: One way to move the market is to place an order to buy 10000 shares of Apple at price $129 when the price is $130. What this will do is "scare" everyone into thinking the price is going to go up soon. So in effect, you've increased the price without making any trades.
 
@JohanLarsson Could undoubtedly be worse--but could certainly be a whole lot better. Yes--I've only been married once, and can hardly imagine a circumstance under which I'd marry again.
 
You can then take advantage of that by selling at the inflated price of $131. Then you cancel your large order for $129.
^^ that is illegal
 
Ah I see.
That's clearly an unfair strat.
 
7:06 PM
Jerry's idea of actually making the large trade to change the price is legal. And because you're actually making the trade, it can also turn against you.
I don't think regulations for price manipulation come into effect until the volumes are large enough that you're cornering the market.
IOW, no you can't buy 80% of Apple's stock at the stock exchange. People are gonna look at you funny.
If you want to do that, you need to actually bring a few guys in suits and sit down with the right people in a suitable high-rise overlooking NYC to make that happen - legally.
 
@Mysticial If memory serves, the regulations kick in at something like 30% of a company.
 
Funky integer series math didn't beat the dumb double-recursive function. I'm sad.
 
@Mysticial What about if you actually leave that buy order in place, and actually do buy? Probably fair to guess that when people realize it's not really going up, it'll drop back down, and if a few big players dump quickly, it might drop a little below the pre-existing price (i.e., you have stock you bought at $130. You place the buy order at $129. Sell your existing stock at $131. Price drops back down, and you pick some up at $129. Lather, rinse, repeat.
 
7:22 PM
@JerryCoffin What you'd describing is very similar to market making. You have orders on both sides and you profit off of anyone who wants to buy or sell in either direction. That's legal and the majority of HFTs do that.
The problem is that if there is a big price movement in either direction that exceeds your volume, you'll always end up on the losing side with a very large position that you can't get rid of.
 
@Mysticial Yup--that's pretty much what I figured. You're basically trying to profit from the "noise", and when there's actual non-noise in the signal, it throws a wrench in the works.
 
The "noise" will usually be human traders. Human traders aren't fast enough to grab the best price at that particular microsecond. So they simply enter a "market order" which will automatically take the best price at the time. The bid and ask prices are almost always controlled by HFTs.
That's why when you buy/sell a stock, you can do it immediately. Because there's always an HFT there waiting to take your order. They make a profit, you get your order filled now without needing to wait and without needing to find someone else to trade with you.
 
@Mysticial And that's "increased market fluidity" in a nutshell...
 
"liquidity"
 
@Mysticial That too--but the two aren't quite synonymous (or at least the last time I was paying attention, there were some minor differences).
 
7:31 PM
 
wut
@Mgetz I'm not entirely sure that article is accurate. Intel's "8th gen" might actually be Coffee Lake which they seem to be squeezing between Kaby Lake and Cannonlake.
Which gives them yet another excuse to delay both 10nm and AVX512.
 
@Mysticial It'd be interesting to see an AVX4096 (64 operands, 64 bits apiece). But the instructions wouldn't have an "AVX4096" prefix. Instead, they'd just be CrayAdd, CraySub, and so on... :-)
 
7:49 PM
holy hell how did that get so many stars
 
@JerryCoffin Their current encoding scheme only has room for AVX1024. And they don't really have much room left in the opcode space to anything else.
 
@jaggedSpire Trump is obviously very popular around here...
 
There are rumors that Intel is planning another "Itanium" in the 2020 time-frame that will start disabling old x86 features like the x87 FPU. But getting the public to accept that might be a bit of a tall order.
If anything, it would be nice to see most of the current integer GPR instructions replaced with VEX-encoded versions that are non-destructive.
 
@JerryCoffin heh
 
@Mysticial I doubt it'd be that hard to sell. Hardly anybody even blinked when they disabled quite a bit of legacy stuff in x64 (some of which was still in much wider use then than x87 is now).
 
7:55 PM
@JerryCoffin If Intel does another x86 -> x64 transition. Where the chip maintains backwards compatibility, but a recompile will target the new arch. That'll work.
Then you can disable whatever the hell you want.
That'll fix the instruction set. But dropping the ability to run legacy code at any point in the future is going to be tough.
 
@Mysticial Right. Itanium had a couple of problems. First, "legacy" mode was entirely separate from native mode. Second, legacy code ran about the same speed as it did on a processor that was 10 years old or so. Finally, it was just so expensive that it stood no chance of gaining noticeable market share, no matter how good it might have been in some ways.
 
Ell
8:24 PM
Hi guys
 
sup
 
@JerryCoffin Hm, I wonder how much faster could the Intel CPU be if they were able to design build a new CPU from scratch?
Not sure if there's really much room for improvement.
If they drop backwards compatibility with x86 then I think there's room for simplification and cost reduction. But not sure about perf.
 
@StackedCrooked Once you've simplified it, you make room for other stuff.
 
What kind of stuff?
AVX1024? :)
 
The real bullshit problem is form factor. What if the CPU was twice as long!? What if a CPU was 4x2cm instead of 2x2cm?
 
8:39 PM
@StackedCrooked For one, the decoders are a pretty large bottleneck. If you simplify the ISA, you can get rid of that.
Right now they're just throwing in layers and layers of caching. which is working to an extent.
 
@Mysticial Is it because of variable length encoding?
(What's ISA btw?)
 
@StackedCrooked Just look at some x86 encoding examples and you will see how bad it is.
ISA = instruction set architecture.
 
@Mysticial: Heard of Mill architecture?
 
@GManNickG yeah. Is anyone even making one yet?
 
@Mysticial Last I heard, nope
 
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