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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

00:07
@jaggedSpire :D /cc @Morwenn you might like this too and uh maybe @Ven
ughhhhhh
screw it
@VermillionAzure is that your own code?
@LucDanton For now, but I think I found a better alternative
if it doesn’t work, does the very first error: happen to point to that part and if so what does it say?
00:24
@LucDanton Okay so I got the error count MAJORLY down because I'm using static_assert now
However, I still have a problem:
static_assert(
            contains_v<T, Data::types>,
            "T is not within the bounded types of the internal data variant."
        );
using Data = boost::variant<
    int,
    std::string,
    MetaTag
>;
And you guessed it, looks like it's not doing well
@sehe huh, having a universal Conceal group is annoying :( if there was some 'transparent' concealing I could have identifier1 be concealed as identifier₁ and <= as with both looking like their original groups (resp. identifier and operators)
@VermillionAzure this is not about guessing, these are instructions: does the first error: point to that code, and if so what does it say
@LucDanton Well, it's definitely getting caught in the static_assert
But I don't understand why it doesn't recognize int as one of the types in the boost::variant
@LucDanton Oh my god I got it right
@LucDanton It's beautiful!
I want to cry!
00:57
Why are you using variants?
In Qt we use variants because Qt doesn't do templates when inheriting from QObject. What is your excuse?
@Mikhail Directly representing the disjoint types of Scheme's type system
Scheme R7RS's standard dictates that every Scheme Object have a type that is disjoint from all others. Thus, I'll be directly encoding the type into the boost::variant for close 1:1 conformance
In other words, an object should only be a Number and nothing else, not a port, or a string or a bytevector or a list
Can't you roll your own "token" class?
@Mikhail I already tried. It's ridiculously hard to get a tagged union that's safe and acts like a sum type
@Mikhail And I can always wrap the variant in a Node type that I can turn into the AST.
The plan is Boost.Qi >> ASTNode >> ASTTree
and then evaluate from there
@jaggedSpire HEY SQUIGLEY!
who what where when how why
I didn't do it
@jaggedSpire no lol I'm just talking about why I'm using variants for Shaka Scheme
01:04
ah
@jaggedSpire I'm so excited I'm going to be building a real progrmaming language!
@jaggedSpire pfff
well, I'm glad you're happy
@Borgleader :O
That pit bull looks like a real sweetie :)
@Borgleader don't tell anyone
It would ruin my image, if people knew I didn't do it ;)
@LucDanton call me crazy, but I like to keep it just text
Helped a lot, code compiles without problems — MichaelS. 11 hours ago
Someone is not getting the hint
I love it when that (doesn't) happen
01:11
@VermillionAzure could you try to be a little more specific?
CoCo/C++ or Spirit, likely
oooh, speaking of badlets in the questions queue
-7
Q: Can someone help me understand how to perform this expression using C++ skills?

DMichealI have tried to perform this arithmetic expression from command line but it doesn't give me valid output. How do I perform the expression in the below code using the simplest skills of C++? #include <iostream> using namespace std; int main() { cout << " 4 * (1.0 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 - 1/...

in instead of criticizing my work, help me Alex — DMicheal 7 hours ago
I'm not criticizing your work, im pointing out that you have wrapped your equation in a string, therefore it will print a string. — Alex 7 hours ago
The is site where we help each other; not tear each other down — DMicheal 7 hours ago
oh god the karma whoring
@jaggedSpire say wat
@sehe Spirit
@VermillionAzure huh. That's not something I made.
And, yeah I still have it (you too: boost.org)
01:14
@sehe Well I think I'm going to go with Qi/Karma for my senior project. Any tips?
@sehe I know, all the poor guy was doing was trying to help
The code was also originally a bad screenshot.
@VermillionAzure By golly. That's open-ended. You can search the transcript :) I've said a great many things. (Including, for example, not liking Karma anywhere near as much as Qi)
@sehe Or, rather, how would you build the AST with Boost.Qi? Right now, I'm probably going to attach emitters with references to an external AST that they'll keep an iterator to so that they can continue to add to the tree as the syntax comes in
...I think he took a screenshot, pasted into word, and then printed the document to an image. I think.
01:17
Ima do a test project with a simiplied grammar to see if this works out alright... But I think it should be ok.
@jaggedSpire This one wins today though:
@Borgleader oh man that's just too obvious
It's like... it's not even funny anymore
...I think next time that happens, I'll tell OP that of course their program isn't working, you're supposed to give the compiler a text file, not an image of text.
@jaggedSpire Screenshot of notepad into MSPaint probably
(with a canvas thats too big)
Mmmm, that makes more sense
@Borgleader oh god that thing.
yeesh
with the weird-ass link shortener that resulted in a >80 character link
...I think it was a link shortener. I didn't check.
01:20
@sehe you’re crazy!!!
like hell am I clicking on such a sketchy piece of nonsense
ragebait
it really is
Today I tried to use .NET to get a consistently correct Windows version, in a way that distinguished 8.1 from 8.
All I wanted was the full list of special folders for the present version of windows
Sounds like a bad idea, what happens when you query on Server 2012, for example
as it turns out you're correct
there are >120 special folders on windows
some of them are only in XP or earlier, some in 8.1 or later
01:42
@LucDanton much appreciated
@VermillionAzure I've done that once. Because I wanted compatible builders across different compiler generators. TL;DR: that's not where Spirit shines
@sehe What do you mean by that?
I don't think it's how you should use Spirit (use Lex or CoCo or ANTLR :))
If you want samples, I have a small¹ collection on the site and https://www.liveedu.tv/sehe too.
¹ some people might contest my notion of size
also steal us a copy of EDG
02:18
kitties /cc @Borgleader @TonyTheLion
@sehe Meh. I am against Lex because of its GNU stuff
02:43
Meh²
@sehe @R.MartinhoFernandes how often do Vim plugins come with licenses?
All the time? They're likely always of the very permissive variety
@sehe most things I run into are a single file with a maintainer entry and a version/changelog of some sorts
I think at least a copyright notice and perhaps a share-alike thing is customary.
02:59
@sehe I think I'm inclined to just write a manual parser already
or just use regex
wouldn't it depend on what you want to parse in the first place?
@sehe Scheme
03:36
@TomášZato Oh come on you're clearly not French why'd you make that typo?
@VermillionAzure lex was AT&T code (exactly what GNU was against). Flex was developed with US government funding. It has always carried a BSD-style license, but arguably even that minimal restriction probably isn't quite legal (but it's so minimal I'm pretty sure nobody's contested it, and it'd be hard to establish standing in court to contest it either).
03:57
@Mikhail regexen generally can't parse. In particular, they can't count, so they can't do minor things like keep track of parentheses being balanced.
@VermillionAzure Scheme's syntax is so trivial that you might about as well write the parser by hand.
04:23
Yes, I know ;-)
04:34
@Mysticial: Thought you might enjoy this one. cc: @Borgleader.
-1
Q: Fortify command-line arguments

Bhargavi GopalacharCan somebody give the detailed command line arguments to run fortify scans through command prompt? Is it different for different languages? if so then please give the commands for different languages. secondly, where should the code which needs to be scanned, be present? In bin folder? Or is it l...

heh
klonk /cc @Borgleader @TonyTheLion @ThePhD @Ven @Xeo
 
2 hours later…
06:47
Mornings are hard. -_-
New theory: It's Raining Men and Let The Bodies Hit The Floor are both accounts of the same event but from wildly different perspectives.
Heh.
@JerryCoffin \o/ :D
07:22
@JohanLarsson Why is your head so small?
to fit my brain :)
07:45
sigh Sublime text isn't keeping sudo permissions for 15 minutes like the terminal does, so I need to type in my password every time I type Ctrl+S
08:14
📷: 414th German-Dutch tank battalion (Leopard 2A6) ready to deploy in #Poland - #Netherlands #Germany https://t.co/7Ole9xy474
German tanks moving to Poland
just like in 1939
@Borgleader That's hilariously cute :D
@VermillionAzure in that case, go with your desired AST. Any implementation is going to be "trivial". Don't fear that. I'd say, if your desired AST revolves around static polymorphism (e.g. variant) go for Spirit. All other cases: roll your own.
Ven
Ven
08:37
Hi
08:48
Hi
09:19
@Abyx Nice bait, mate.
The Iron Cross is the symbol of the Bundeswehr since 1956.
Took sixty years to notice, huh?
09:33
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would suggest that if you can introduce bugs into a simple concatenation loop then programming might not be for you. — Elliott 7 hours ago
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's that then?
@thecoshman what's what?
The Iron Cross is that cross marked in the picture.
What's 1956?
The Bundeswehr is the modern German Armed Forcea.
@R.MartinhoFernandes aaaah, that's what's what's what
09:38
Anyway, RIP Gene Cernan.
10:11
@jaggedSpire I wanna be the middle one, just blissfully asleep
ergh... so we use this citrix snx cli tool to connect to a vpn. I want to set up a cron job to keep it connected (it times out after a while) but you can't just pass it password via cli, so I am wrapping it in an except script. This also allows me to handle if I am already connected and silently do nothing. Problem is, even though the underling vpn client is saying it's connected, it seems once the except script ends, the client closes it's connection too :S
@JerryCoffin Yikes, barely made heads or tails of that one
o_0 oooh, that's a new message... the gate is busy now... I think maybe I've spammed it a bit too much
@LucDanton No idea.
@Borgleader Since only one mutable borrow can exist at any given time and while so no immutable borrows can exist, it is trivially impossible for two operations to happen concurrently with one of them being a mutation.
As long as all relevant operations take place within that subset of then language, yes.
unsafe allows you to remove and add mut as it pleases you, so there's that.
10:31
ergh ¬_¬
It's NOT smart enough to skip "This". It skips that because your pattern starts with a mandatory (. So, it's already past This before it starts to match, and it doesn't stop until it reaches the $ (end of input), because that's also in your pattern. — sehe 1 min ago
Oh boy. Regexes are smarter than people
Anyone else know how to explain things.
I think it's looking like svn doesn't like it when you use a http proxy to access it
10:42
Oh wow. The penny dropped with regex-guy
regex is easy :|
That's the hard thing. People expect magic.
Saw the bike again
We wanted to fire it up but the battery died -.-
But I got a chance to sit on it and it feels like made for me
Going there tomorrow to hopefully listen to the engine running and if it's OK I'm buying it
10:50
Btw, for whomever suggested "Boston, USA" for the Uncon, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_(disambiguation)
At this point, "<city name>, USA" is almost as vague as "Alexandria, Persia" in 300 BCE.
fine, we’ll go to Helenopolis
Or "Berliner Str., Berlin"
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol, fifteen places called "Boston", more if you are not pedantic about things
@R.MartinhoFernandes why would there be more than one ._.
@LucDanton Berlin used to be a much smaller area in the middle of what is today Berlin. Around the 1900s the surrounding towns got subsumed into Berlin. Each of those surrounding towns had a Berliner Str.
Names were kept.
10:57
oh right, the very reason why there would be a Place Street, Place to begin with
There's also a shit ton of "Breite Str." ("Wide street"), for similar reasons.
in comparison looks like there used to be only one way to go to Paris, should have been inconvenient for the people on the opposite side of the city
ergh ¬_¬ massive big fat ugly shitty deployment script to try to work my way through understanding
@thecoshman shakes hands
11:04
this is getting worse the more I look at it
@R.MartinhoFernandes maybe I’m using the map wrong, but once again only one Grande Rue (or Grand'Rue for that matter). coincidentally doesn't look to be anywhere near the old city as with the Rue de Paris. I’m going to guess that that the cities have very different attitudes re: renaming streets
any time the deployment script, a shell script of course, does anything via the shell, it does via a wrapper script
@LucDanton Prolly, yeah.
that doesn't seem to do anything of value
@thecoshman That's good. After a while you start getting what really it is doing in essence, and you rewrite it in 10% of the code, and maintainable.
11:05
@LucDanton I know a few instances of renamings in Berlin, but they're all around the same theme.
just seems to cd and then execute the program... via another wrapper
@R.MartinhoFernandes …right
Adolf-Hitler-Platz -> Theodor-Heuss-Platz.
@thecoshman Could be essential for finding libs
@sehe could be.. I suspect it's indirection for the sake of looking smarter ¬_¬
Ven
Ven
@nwp jaedong vs flash! twitch.tv/gsl
but before I can look to improve this, I need to get it replicate in a new setup so that I can freely break it all I want
'tis what I do
Well, and not counting removing placeholder names.
@R.MartinhoFernandes alternatively: lazy urban naming scheme (look around)
11:07
Atm, some street names are just numbers.
@LucDanton Oh, that happens here too.
I’ve actually never noticed that sort of thing before, but then again I’m not from a big town
The entire Wedding district is split into these small clusters of similarly named streets.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess they ran out of their country first
oh now really ¬_¬
There's the lowlands bit, the British bit, the African bit (right around Afrikanische Str., for kicks), ...
11:09
having to source to get shit like java location, that should be configured as part of the build slave
today, I have found my 2nd favourite ocean rock pool & a baby squid the size of a thumb nail has out swum me
@LucDanton I also found similar patterns when I was in Rostock.
All the streets around my hostel were named after Scandinavian cities.
Who ever set up these Jenkins jobs clearly never took the time to learn how to best use the tool, they just twisted it to do what they want
user image
12
Robot subliminally sending us messages
actually I’m having a giggle at the Barfusstraße
11:10
@thecoshman I'm so in the same boat
@LucDanton I think that one is named after people.
Hans Albrecht von Barfus (1635 – December 27, 1704) was a field marshal in the service of Brandenburg and Prussia, serving briefly as prime minister under King Frederick I. == Military career == Barfus was born in 1635 to a cuirassier captain and his wife. He served alongside the Swedes in 1656 during the Second Northern War (as a lieutenant), and, now serving the Elector of Brandenburg, quickly rose through the ranks, eventually being granted a colonelcy. By the time of the Siege of Vienna he was a major-general, and served under King John of Poland during that campaign. When the Elector died...
haha you said Barfus
11:11
@sehe it sucks, before you can do much of anything, you have to understand the madness that came before you
I'm in the process of puzzling together a patchwork of gitlab YAML, multirunner defs, various knit-together docker files and adhoc shell scripts (most of which are inconsistently versioned by baking them into docker images)
@thecoshman What else is new. I happen to not dislike that job. I think it gives a lot of satisfaction when you're done cleaning up.
@sehe yeah :( it's the sadistic side of us
I think you mean masochist
maybe
:P
incidentally it looks like I can’t input 'ß' in the chat any more, it indents/does the code thing :/ works fine in the page search bar though
11:14
wth
ß
that’s the sort of thing I really, really hate tracking to find out who’s responsible so I’ll leave it at that
No problem. I'd give something for a keyboard shortcut to make a message fixed-width
well, what does AltGr+k do on your end?
Lemme seeœ
Apparently it does œ
11:15
wœird
I use AltGr+s for ß
o_0 so each environment that they were deploying to has it's own 'tools folder' on the main build server...
@LucDanton lol
@sehe I should check that out sometime.
all the other AltGr+key chords work as they used to, so weird
11:17
FWIW, Ctrl+k does the indenting.
well that's something
Might be related.
ok so might sound stupid but
if you ctrl+k, you can copy the whitespace that appears and paste it in another place?
alright got it, the address bar is special
Maybe your system is emulating AltGr+k as Ctrl+Alt+k, and the browser/Lounge JS is only checking for "ctrl_bit and k" instead of "only_ctrl_bit and k".
sounds likely
11:23
@R.MartinhoFernandes Indeed it does. I think that's new (or maybe I accepted the fact that it didn't appear to be a feature since my Opera days)
say I have /a/foo.sh /b/foo.sh and /c/foo.sh ie, three folders all with a file called foo.sh... how can I diff them all? I know I could use ls */foo.sh to list them all... but then maybe use xargs to pass that list to diff?
vim -d /*/foo.sh
oooh
oh wait, is that interactive?
Yup.
11:24
TTLVIM
I'm having to basically use a jenkins job to read out a load of config files as I don't have access to the server
@JerryCoffin Oh no, I'm just against having to force autotools on my project
Can't really do autotools under MinGW alone without msys2
I'd probably have to download it natively and then ugh
@sehe Actually, I think I'm just gonna roll my own already
I managed to get a minor one working for S-expression like stuff already so it should be very doable
And I have it connected to the AST too, so that's cool
@sehe What about me?
@user963241 You're a prime number (so much should have been clear from the context)
@VermillionAzure You pay minors?
So? What do I win?
11:36
Not much.
@Morwenn: Are you a girl?
@user963241 Morwenn is beautiful
@user963241 Not really.
I didn't know girls can learn C++ too.
11:39
Are you 13?
You obviously don't know about Lisa Lippincott then.
@sehe lol
@user963241 Frankly I was under impression both genders were equally unable to learn C++
I need an advice since I am here. How can I learn C++ deeply? Books don't teach much.
Are you a girl?
nwp
nwp
@milleniumbug debian packaged qt creator 4.2 two days after I complained
11:43
@nwp cool
nwp
nwp
And I noticed that clang 3.9 was packaged also. Is there a way to get notified when they package 4.0?
generally you just install clang and they handle the updating, but that just recently switched from installing 3.6 to 3.8, so I had to manually tell it to use 3.9 which will make me miss 4.0
well that's what happens
I also find that I forget quickly what I learn.
I wish Travis would finally whitelist the Clang 3.9 APT.
nwp
nwp
There doesn't seem to be a apt-get update --list-newly-available-packages.
I haven't practiced for 10 years yet D:
@R.MartinhoFernandes I read an article about a situation of 40yo "junior" devs in Poland
a lot of people are jumping on 3-5 month courses to get into the industry and go from there
the thing is, for a lot of people basic, terrible coding is enough to vastly improve their life conditions
no age discrimination
How can you guys recall and know so much?
11:53
now I think we're doing those people a disservice saying they need 10 years to learn the technology. This is just creating an alienating aura
@user963241 We've been actually doing this for (over) 10 years.
if a 80 yo wants to learn coding, s(he) should be able to too
@BartekBanachewicz I fail to see the relevance.
@BartekBanachewicz Strawmanning.
13 mins ago, by user963241
I need an advice since I am here. How can I learn C++ deeply? Books don't teach much.
if foo = "magic" path = "magic" else path = foo <-- that's the level of stupidity I am having to deal with
@BartekBanachewicz Quoting for context.
11:57
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh I wasn't attacking your particular reply, it was more of a comment to a wider situation
@BartekBanachewicz It's still strawmanning, though.
You haven't read the article.
@thecoshman such people probably also apply the for-if antipattern
> If you want, put in four years at a college (or more at a graduate school). This will give you access to some jobs that require credentials, and it will give you a deeper understanding of the field, but if you don't enjoy school, you can (with some dedication) get similar experience on your own or on the job.
More quotes for context.
@R.MartinhoFernandes wait what article
It's not "wait ten years to get a job".
9 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
11:59
oh you mean the 10y one
This is what you replied to.
Like, literally that message.
yeah mb I thought there was something else
see I don't disagree with the contents
You're arguing against a position nobody postulated.
that's... true
I'm arguing my preconceived ideas about what someone might think after reading the title.
I'll shut up now.
Thank you all..
12:11
Ok, so latest VS still ICEs on simple TMP.
Template is magic.
5
(Aka, it's been six years and variadic templates are still not quite usable)
@user963241 You already won. Your state of wonder is the prize.
Yes, I feel that you guys know more than just C++!
@Morwenn AH! I was forever trying to remember the name of this pattern - which I employed in my generalized retryable IO operations framework: paste.ubuntu.com/23816030
I also quite like the little helper that I used there: fmanip([](auto& stream) { /*....*/ }) for "functional IO manip" paste.ubuntu.com/23816037
12:18
I read about it years ago in an MSDN blog post. Yours is the more evolved version where you take the function to test as a parameter :p
It's the same thing, but with a more valid reason to do it :)
@sehe I remember once writing a scope guard for io manipulator to do that kind of job.
I didn't know it already existed in Boost.
Ah no. The state-saving is merely a fringe detail. The point is injecting a stateful lambda in your stream insertions (see the application in the first pastebin)
Oh, ok.
@Morwenn It has a "tiered" structure of state savers :)
And, naming be damned, I don't think it's actually tied to Boost IOstreams, which has a few design issues (due to age)
12:23
Hehe :D
@Morwenn Hmm. I guess a much better example is this use with a lambda that captures by reference:
using namespace ti::io::time; // gets clock, duration and timer
auto reltime = ti::io::fmanip([launched_at=clock::now()](auto& os) {
        os << std::fixed << std::setprecision(3) << as_seconds(clock::now() - launched_at) << "s";
    });

auto finally = ti::on_scope_exit([&] { log.debug() << "Exited at " << reltime; });
TFW I still can't edit in chat to save my life
x)
@sehe Now that's a nice and simple example :D
why is there two sehes
cacheplz
You don't want to see the surrounding code. It's the most obtuse bit of code I wrote in 2 months. And it comes with a few dozen test cases to test all these funny concurrency/shutdown edge cases
In fairness, that post_periodic_task serves as the workhorse for all our legacy "background scheduling" tasks. Originally they all came with manual (pthreads) threading and buggy shutdown logic (or lack thereof).
@sehe Too much concurrency for my brain to handle D:
12:32
Oh. I remember. I live-sparred with Luc in the lounge when I struggled to get the shutdown logic right (chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=34978351#34978351)
I was in Spain at the time. First ever non-summer Holiday I did, and I worked more than during a regular work week :|
@sehe What's ti::io?
It's the namespace for IO-oriented parts of our library (not ti, but tracksinspector.com)
I see.
Using coroutines in production code? Nice.
That is, I introduced that namespace (as well as library) and we're slowly moving away from legacy non-blocking BSD socket code to it
@StackedCrooked I worked hard for it. And the mental barrier was considerable:
Nov 22 '16 at 22:02, by sehe
Two years down the road, I'm finally ready to absorb it and brave enough to start tackling this in my work codebase.
There's still one gotcha with the coroutines that I wish I had uncovered before implementing it: Coroutines risk violating the invariants that we had for using a few libraries with thread-specific instances.
It's not an issue, it's just an error waiting to be made (we can't use such resources across potential coro resumes because it could resume on a different thread)
Coroutines specifically? Or would a callback-based approach also have broken the same invariants?
@sehe Oh I see.
12:42
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm, ok so the rules essentially constrain what you can do code wise and that makes it safe. I was just skeptical that they could actually enforce that properly but I guess the seemingly "too simple" rules actually manage too. I'm chalking it up to lack of experience on my part then, thanks. :)
@StackedCrooked Anything that schedules continuations across multiple threads, yes. The difference, of course, being that stackful Coroutines effectively hide it going on, making it easy(er) to fall into the trap
unless you have coroutine-local vars and explicitly relocalize the thread-local instances
but probably more trouble than it's worth
yeah, that's essentially saying "don't use thread locals". It's sane advice for free threaded workers. But the matter is, we used thread-locals for good reason (not well-behaved thirdparty libraries)
you can somewhat prevent bugs by tying the continuation to specific threads when it relies on thread locals but can't migrate them. but that will cost you when doing load balancing
12:58
What the hell happened there
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