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00:00
Rule two: MACROSMACROSMACROSMACROS.
No, it's not.
Who cares if IDE generates half of your codebase, if reading and maintaining it later is royal pain in the ass?
It's the same thing as with "std::" in C++.
Well, when you absolutely need an IDE to be productive, that's when the language might be too verbose.
00:32
I think Haskell will be the next language I learn
Yeah, everyone seems to like Haskell.
It's almost as if it was the best functional language around.
See ya tomorrow people! Thanks for the help!
@CatPlusPlus What kind of GUIs can you build with Haskell?
Dunno, ask the @Cat.
All kind of GUIs. What sort of question is that?
Also, leave GUIs for later.
00:36
Considering GUIs are event driven, how well does Haskell works for event-driven programming?
I meant can you
I should sleep; my holiday end on monday
There's a whole thing for that. Functional reactive programming.
Interestingu.
reactive-banana comes with wxHaskell bindings and examples for that.
(| lol |)
00:43
Is it like reactive armor, except it's a banana?
Thinking about it, a banana that explodes when hit would be actually quite awesome.
user406009
00:58
@EtiennedeMartel So, like a ...bommana?
01:42
Wee, I just hit 600 rep
601, rather
I'm here to celebrate
someone say something celebratory
Something celebratory.
Oh Cat Plus Plus, you have the inventiveness of an assembly programmer! haha, subtlety there
02:03
TIL Celebratory and celebatory have very different meanings.
you're correct, one isn't a word. take a guess
02:26
std::plus doesn't use trailing return type?
It's old.
Don't cut things in the air, or you'll cut yourself. Dammmmit.
Why does small cut hurt like hell.
03:00
How does std::result_of's type work?
Has this always been allowed? What is it?
template<class F, class... ArgTypes>
struct result_of<F(ArgTypes...)>
can maps be sorted or is this nonsensical
std::map is sorted by key.
user457812
Aren't they already sort- damn, the cat beat me.
Because it's backed up by a balanced tree, hence why retrieval isn't amortized O(1) like in hashmaps.
what if I basically want the equivalent of a sorted map
i guess that'd be a map of vectors?
03:11
Map of vectors is map of vectors. What do you mean by 'sorted map'?
user406009
std::map::begin()?
user457812
I am confused.
user406009
Then just use it like normal iterators?
03:36
so if i have map<ll, vector<ll> >
how would i start filling it with a vector of ll's?
map[key] = vector.push_back()?
map[key] = some_vector.
turned out to be map[key].push_back
what's the C++ equivalent of "for x in L[i]" where L is a list of lists?
in my case now, a map of vectors
?
user406009
03:51
The C++ method is to manually go through it.
user406009
for (auto iter= L.begin(); iter != L.end(); ++iter)
{
ListType &list = *iter;
for (auto iter= list.begin(); iter != list.end(); ++iter)
{
Item & foo = *iter;
//do stuff with foo.
}
user406009
}
i am just trying to go through a specific key though
not the entire L
just each element of map[key]
err
map[key]'s vector
user406009
Then just do a loop through that.
i would if i knew how, lol
user406009
03:56
for (auto iter = map[key].begin(); iter != map[key].end(); iter++)
{
Item & foo = *iter;
}
what is Item & foo/
user406009
Just a way of showing you how to access the item(Item is a made up type).
user406009
*iter
user406009
You could also loop through the items how you would do it normally, for (int i = 0; i < map[key].size(); i++) ...
hm it's not liking it
ll & x = *iter; (illegal indirection)
ll is a typedef for long long
04:04
great, another animal... -_-
Now we have a Cat, two Dogs, an Ape and a Polar Bear.
and a Duck.
04:26
std::for_each(map[key].begin(), map[key].end(), [](long long x) { ... });
Or for (auto x : map[key]) { ... }
04:47
Ooh, ooh! I can make my icon an animal too! One sec.
Never mind. I don't have any funny animal pictures.
 
2 hours later…
07:00
How do I traverse an "object"?
@GManNickG Clever. Thanks!
@Pubby Very carefully?
Pisses me off how I don't have editing privileges on programmers.se
07:38
any one want to put in there 2 cents about an XML display manager
or I should say an XML windowing system
Why XML?
just postscript vs XML
XML+SVG
What?
I am saying because Apple uses postscript
maybe XML/SVG would be better
what do you thing?
I dunno enough about the problem domain to have an opinion
07:46
OK
XML is never better.
@CatPlusPlus why?
XML sucks
how about SVG
All image formats suck, therefore SVG sucks
07:50
SVG is XML.
Double suck!
@CatPlusPlus I gone XML = SVG
but why is it bad?
It's neither human nor machine readable :P
Why is it good?
@Pubby !It's neither human nor machine readable :P
07:52
??
the good as I see is it is scalable
Scalable to what?
@Pubby ! is not in front of you sentence
I don't understand
from experience you can make an SVG huge with out loosing quality
and they lood fast
07:53
Yes, loosing would be suck.
Same with PDF…
Except it has nothing to do with XML.
Same with bitmap
Vector graphics scale better than raster graphics.
so tell me what is the bad?
07:54
Why the fuck does std::basic_ifstream::rdbuf return a pointer and not a reference?
Wait, are you talking about scaling meaning resize? x_x
Verbosity, for one.
@Pubby yes
@daknok_t Because IOStreams suck.
It's a near-incomprehensible mess, design and implementation-wise.
@daknokt References can't return NULL, which rdbuf can
07:55
@Pubby ah. What about an exception?
so a lot of empty stuff with this design
@daknokt Why would an exception be better?
(Honestly I have no clue wtf rdbuf even does, I generally avoid streams)
It returns a pointer to the buffer.
AFAIK you can't have a stream without one.
You can't just output directly?
The reference doesn't say anything about it returning nullptr.
07:57
Unbuffered output is rarely a good idea. But aside from that, streambuf does most of the heavy lifting in IOStreams, AFAIK.
@Pubby I don't need to use it, I was just wondering.
Also use Boost.IO.
@daknokt Are you talking about cppreference? It says it returns NULL there.
Seriously? I't didn't say that here…
Hyperlink?
08:01
Ah I was reading the page on basic_istream::rdbuf.
Funniest part of stream base classes is the storage shenanigans.
xalloc, iword, pword.
Try to guess what it does.
Such names look like those found in the C standard library.
allocates 'x's?
My mother doesn't understand the difference between Internet Explorer and Google...
If you remove the o's and a's.
08:03
int ios_base::xalloc(); long& ios_base::iword(int); void*& ios_base::pword(int);
@FredOverflow I've met people that don't understand the difference between Windows and Internet Explorer
so, don't worry
@FredOverflow give here google chrome then tell here its google
When I told her to use Firefox instead of Internet Explorer, she was worried about viruses...
People are stupid :)
08:05
She is using Windows XP with IE6, btw...
Bit too late to worry.
Fucking mobile chat…
@FredOverflow free her ubuntu.com
It's a great idea to switch OSes on computer illiterate people!
@TaylorBioniks I hope all her programs are available for Ubuntu. When I asked here what she did with her computer, she wasn't sure.
08:08
ugh, IE6, the worst nightmare of all
@TonyTheLion She also uses the Outlook Express that comes with XP.
It help my computer illiterate family
I also heard people say Mozerella Firefox…
Or Godzilla Firefox.
@FredOverflow meh, perhaps time you thought your mother how to use a computer properly :P
I gave my mother an Ipad, so now I have no longer to worry :P
@daknok_t Does it also work the other way around? "One Pizza Mozilla, please!"
@Fred I guess that they know what you mean, yes.
@TonyTheLion I'd love to install Ubuntu on her computer, but I fear she'll be uncomfortable changing any of her habits.
08:12
Or you get a blue pizza with a red fox on it…
Buy a Mac xD
I did it to 5 family members they now know how to use a computer ;)
@TaylorBioniks You did what, buy a Mac or install Ubuntu?
Beat them with a stick.
bootable USB stick?
Today is boring.
08:14
Go out and buy sex toys.
I want to do something, but am overwhelmed by boring.
How about watching LangNext videos?
installed Ubuntu on all my family's computers
Go jump off a cliffski
08:15
@FredOverflow no, don't buy them. Clang and GCC are free and good enough!
I don't have any cliffs.
Ew.
Go channel a cliff!
I don't have a shovel.
Go craft one
08:16
use the power of 山
Punching trees is boring.
And I'm all outta sticks.
the power of trees 木
> In software development, Make is a utility that automatically builds executable programs and libraries from source code by reading files called makefiles which specify how to derive the target program.
True.
I think I'll go sleep and figure out what to do later.
08:18
kitty minus minus
I'm confused, why do make files used in conjunction with Visual Studio only generate the solution then?
VS doesn't use make.
Because makefiles suck, and so does visual studio.
make is a general purpose tool, it can do anything
They used VCBuild, now they use MSBuild.
08:19
@CatPlusPlus well yesterday I used nmake to create a VS .sln file for a project
@daknokt agrees
The n in nmake stands for 'not'
There is make implementation included, but it's not used for solutions.
@Pubby it can rape cats?
@TonyTheLion Of course
08:20
Well, unless you write a makefile that generates a solution.
I lost the sight of the problem somewhere along the way.
N Make (naughty make)
kitten : cat1 cat2
    rape cat1 cat2 -o kitten
Pubby--;
Pubby++;
++Pubby; FTFY
08:22
for (;;){Pubby--;}
Rape jokes are generally considered terrible taste, y'know. Just saying.
@Pubby are you a puppy derivate?
Integer underflow! Pubby has maximum scorez!
@TonyTheLion I dunno
@CatPlusPlus I couldn't think of anything better...
08:23
I think we share a common ancestor
Puppy + Bat = Pubby
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.
if (Pubby[5] == 'i' || 'y') Pubby.gender=male;
else Pubby.gender=female;
'y' is always true…
yeah because the last letter of his name
user457812
08:25
What exactly is Pubby[5] anyway?
@Taylor no, because it's not 0 nor false.
@nil a mutant Bat Puppy
user457812
Someone has clearly been drinking
Operator precedence be hard.
Drinking the Pubby juice
08:26
@daknokt I don't think it's real code I am just messing around
@nil who
user457812
@Pubby I heard that increases your risk of heart attack and stroke.
It's delicious, tho.
:)
As long as you don't mean the white, sticky juice it's fine…
user457812
You have a sick mind!
08:27
@daknokt Shut up and suckle my juice
No, we mean blood.
user457812
Everyone knows coconut juice is disgusting anyway.
YUMMY BLOOD
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
WHICH I AM
08:28
GF is older then me is that weird?
Armok be praised.
user457812
Yes. Totally.
Blood is good it has much iron
Only if you're an Iron Man.
08:29
@nil why is it weird?
Iron Man eats iron?
user457812
Oh boy, do I want beer or milk tonight..
user457812
Or both.
Bat man eats bats? :S
Or red wine.
08:29
Wine is meh.
user457812
I'm afraid I lack wine, there is only blood
@nil want = nil
Wine is not emulation
Wine is dry as cork.
I have wine i use it to run windows software when I want
user457812
08:30
I know, I'll start with beer and then slowly transition to milk by pouring milk into the beer
user457812
It's genius
I have VMware, which doesn't suck compared to Wine…
@daknokt you use VMware on what system?
Mac OS X
@nil It'd be like, White German.
08:31
OK I have Mac OS X Lion
user457812
I have pants.
I've been playing too much KoL lately.
KoL?
I have a dead body underneath my bed.
King of Legends!
Close enough…
if (nil == weird) do_nothing();
else the_earth_ends();
It's hilarious. Go play it.
Is it multiplayer?
user457812
I am not playing Kingdom of Loathing again
08:35
@nil why?
Yes, you are.
user457812
He's right, I am
@CatPlusPlus Ever play OpenTTD?
user457812
Commence the weeping as my free time slowly gets filled with stupid things
08:36
@Pubby Browser MMO thingy.
Most of the play is alone, but there's trading, PvP, chat and stuff.
And it's hilarious.
I mean, how many games feature meat as a currency.
user457812
Kind of like Urban Dead if you ever played that.
user457812
Don't play that, by the way.
@daknokt why does Java suck?
user457812
Because it's Java and Java sucks stop questioning it and just accept the Truth.
The only online zombie game I played was Die2Nite.
Well, browser online.
08:39
@nili that is not a very good answer
@Taylor Bioniks it has GC, forces stupid things like OOP, has a badly-designed library, the URL class' equals method only works with a network connection, and all those stupid things…
OK I see that is a good answer
GC isn't bad
GC is not a bad feature.
you should be able to turn it on or off
08:41
Java sucks because it's verbose and primitive.
2
It's fairly pointless for a language like Java though
I don't like GC's, I want to know exactly what happens to my objects and when it happens.
I just looked in my XGF file and every GF I have ever had has been 2 years older then me now that is weird
@daknokt How do you expect that to work on concurrent code? :P
@daknok_t That doesn't have to happen on a memory level.
08:44
@CatPlusPlus here 猫++ your name in japanese
It seems to me that GCs make memory management easy but resource management hard.
At least nondeterministic ones
RAII makes both easy…
And deterministic.
RAII limits everything to blocks
Resource management is just detached from object lifetime.
Even stupid Java has try (...) {} now.
It still sucks, but at least they're trying.
I use try in java on android
08:46
@CatPlusPlus What do you mean? Any tips on resource management in GC languages?
Good languages have block constructs that deal with resources.
C# has using.
Lisp has unwind-protect macros, although I don't see how that's better than RAII
RAII is not the holy grail. Lisp's with- macros are pretty equivalent.
@Pubby how is lisp different from scheme
Most languages don't have a notion of automatic storage.
08:49
@TaylorBioniks Scheme is Lisp
Lisp is a family of languages.
@Pubby really I thought they where separate languages
Common Lisp & Scheme
Common Lisp is a Lisp
Obviously.
OK
@CatPlusPlus @Pubby @daknokt @nil sayounara
08:50
@CatPlusPlus And JavaScript is a Java? :P
oyasuminasai
Well, both suck.
Might as well be.
That reminds me, do you really think Haskell needs a GC?
I know I already asked it but it just doesn't make sense to me.
08:52
I don't really care what GHC does internally.
It probably does need GC.
With laziness, many things happen behind the scenes.
Night & goodBye
@CatPlusPlus What do you mean? Pure thunks shouldn't need much to work.
@TaylorBioniks Bye
Again, I don't really care.
I don't mind GC.
Yeah, doesn't really matter I guess
08:55
RAII is a form of GC, too, just very very simple.
Eh, RAII can be determined at compile time though
Garbage doesn't really exist with RAII
So it's not GC :S
It doesn't exist, because it's immediately collected.
Well who's collecting it?
user457812
08:57
The dog.
Implementation.
The point is, not you. Which makes it a form of GC.
You still have to free it in the destructor though, well at least a destructor
With refcounting, p = CREATE(x); ... block ... DECREF(p);, with no increfs, has the same effect as RAII.

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