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16:00
@EtiennedeMartel it's sexist because a gender-neutral thing "don't bother people wearing headphones" was presented as if it's relevant only to a specific gender.
Sexism or gender discrimination is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender. Sexism can affect any gender, but it is particularly documented as affecting women and girls. It has been linked to stereotypes and gender roles, and may include the belief that one sex or gender is intrinsically superior to another. Extreme sexism may foster sexual harassment, rape, and other forms of sexual violence. == Etymology and definitions == According to Fred R. Shapiro, the term "sexism" was most likely coined on November 18, 1965, by Pauline M. Leet during a "Student-Faculty Forum"...
@Abyx Hey, take your grievances to the author of the original article. He's the one who wrote about how to, as a man, approach a woman wearing headphones.
It's a reply to the article. Nothing more. But of course you had to feel defensive about it.
@Abyx A little bit, I do agree. The target audience appears to be men trying to have sex with women, and so I think the gender thing is just a way to make it easier for the target audience to visualize themselves in that role. I don't see the article as sexist, but rather the source.
@EtiennedeMartel I don't care about people who make that sexist stuff, but you're sharing it here.
Hello! Can anyone tell me what is happening in the extract function on page 13 at tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1751? :)
@Abyx Well I'm sorry for offending you.
16:03
@Abyx I don't care about anything you post here, and yet you do it
Fallacy much?
x = ((long)(cl<<8 | cc) <<8  | cr) ;
x = x >> (24 - (length + (start %8)));
x =( x & (0xffff >> (16-length) )   );
@milleniumbug nope
this in specific ^
@AwalGarg wrong room
read up on bit operations
16:05
@AwalGarg A shitload of bit manips, I believe is the technical term.
@Abyx well shut up I didn't ask for your opinion anyway
@milleniumbug "content at the link" != "the link itself", it's like *p != p in C++
Here's a hint, it's a 24-bit piece of data, cl is probably the left byte, cc is prob the center, cr is prob the right
@milleniumbug sorry but I'm not going to
@milleniumbug I understand bit ops. but why leftshift with 8 in specific?
16:07
(cl<<8 | cc): This puts cl and cc back together again, then cr is put together with it too
They're 1-byte values and 1 byte contains 8 bits
@AwalGarg It's basically taking some bits that are stored in bytes, extracting some number (up to 11) of them, and assembling them into an int. The shift by 8 is because it expects a byte to be 8 bits.
"oh no a guy posted something that doesn't concern me, I don't like it, so stop posting it"
well, so?
@milleniumbug you're completely missing the point
@JerryCoffin Ahh 8bits! Sorry, I am not very experienced at this stuff. Thank you! Thank you @Aaron3468 too!
11 mins ago, by Abyx
@EtiennedeMartel I don't care about people who make that sexist stuff, but you're sharing it here.
16:13
@milleniumbug Well, everyone is entitled to their own safe space.
@m.s. Hi. Good to see you here.
@EtiennedeMartel To an extent, I think it's hard to blame many of the men involved in a lot of cases. Yes, there are some boundaries that really are solid. But, an awful lot of women have fairly ...flexible boundaries in some cases. The big problem that arises is that in many cases her boundaries are based as much on the person as the behavior. A guy who's young, handsome, confidence (without being excessively arrogant), etc., doing something may get a very positive reaction.
@m.s. I'm afraid it's pretty simple. You need coersion if the default propagation rules don't work sufficiently (ambiguous mappings possible e.g.). Whether the limits constitute bugs or absent features is out of my jurisdiction. I usually just round the cliffs so it WorksForMe(TM)
You can see this answer for more of my hints/thoughts here:
3
A: boost::spirit::x3 attribute compatibility rules, intuition or code?

seheIf you're not on the develop you don't have the fix for that single-element sequence adaptiation bug, so yeah it's probably that. Due to the genericity of attribute transformation/propagation, there's a lot of wiggle room, but of course it's just documented and ultimately in the code. In other w...

I know a lot of women who put up with boundary-pushing men they kind of hate because "that's just how they are", so I think you may have a point Jerry
A guy who's old, fat, unattractive, or just "not her type" doing exactly the same things is a lot more likely to get a much more negative reaction. Many of the problems arise from the simple fact that some men think they're a lot more attractive than they really are (or maybe realize they're not, but hope that if they act the part, the woman will go along with it).
16:21
@JerryCoffin I get that it's hard. But then again, if someone has headphones on, that person probably doesn't want to be bothered by a complete stranger.
In fact, talking to some of my female friends, a lot of them use headphones as a defense mechanism because they don't want that attention.
@EtiennedeMartel Many people actually don't mind chatting with new people when they have nothing else to do. But what they dislike is having new people get in the way of what they're doing, or worse, put them in a more dangerous/ boring situation
@EtiennedeMartel that "a lot" could be wrong. I'd rather say that both genders often don't care about such boundaries, and this includes what happens within same gender.
Engineers are not exactly known for their social prowess
@roscoe_casita I'm not entirely sure this was part of the discussion... But sure
@EtiennedeMartel There's undoubtedly some point to that. There's also some point to the fact that people in general are social creatures, so even if she starts out with the idea that she just wants to be left alone right now, if the guy is "right" enough, she'll be happy he disturbed her. No, not always--but a lot more often than not.
16:26
probably not @Aaron3468, but they are known for throwing red herrings for people to chase ;)
@caps I wonder if that has anything to do with the high turnover rate in tech.
I've personally had 3 jobs in 3 years.
@Mysticial I've been at the same company for 9 years now ~ I've got to be an odd ball case.
sorry if I'm just spouting off in here, I tendered my resignation on monday.
Reason for leaving?
6th year in a software II position, no promotion.
16:39
they figured they could just keep doing the same thing.
italian company, they like drama.
they don't realize that if I have to threaten to quit to get a raise, I'm just going to quit.
My reasons for hopping jobs were: 1) better offer. 2) termination/layoff
My grad-school colleague recently left Facebook for Uber. I'm not entirely sure on the reasons other than he "finished his project" at FB.
@Mysticial He now has control of millions of minions, now he can hide in obscurity. :-)
@roscoe_casita Did you have another offer from another company?
@Mysticial I ended up getting a GTF position at the school.
I could have pursued the other offer route, but I kind of decided to leave the company before this entire path started.
@roscoe_casita When I was in school, I was offered a GTFO position... :-)
16:43
@JerryCoffin ahahhaha, nice.
@roscoe_casita Ah. I wouldn't have ever dared to quit a job without another offer from somewhere else.
@Mysticial oh, I didn't tender my resignation until after I had signed the contract with the university.
its 50% pay, but I get to pursue what I love ~
@Mysticial I've done that. OTOH, by the time my resignation had taken effect, the company I'd been working for had offered to let me continue working for them as a consultant (which I did for a few years).
16:45
yeah, the company has 9 years, with one deep in this area, I expect to have to contract work back.
@roscoe_casita Hmm...that reminds me, I need to ask about getting a laptop so I can work from the beach. Yes, I swear I'll be working hard... maybe not on company work, but certainly on something...
@Mysticial Hmm, could be.
@JerryCoffin Well. Maybe. I think your premise makes sense (if a woman likes a man she might like to get some attention from him) but I think the condition is rarely true (i.e. a woman on the train is rarely interested enough in a stranger that she wants him to approach her)
@caps Another thing that I hear a lot are "entry-level" companies trying to hire the "rockstars" for cheap only to lose them to Google or other places. And they aren't willing or able to pay them what's needed to retain them.
So that leaves me feeling pretty skeptical.
Not just the "entry-level" companies, but some large ones too.
I think the one I heard about was like Cisco or something.
But this was a while back and 3rd-hand info so it might be incorrect.
Something about an entire team being incrementally poached out of Cisco for 250k each. But Cisco doesn't want to match those offers. So the team fell under the bus-factor and died.
16:50
@Mysticial that is EXACTLY what our company has been doing. They want to pay 30-50% below market rate... for top performers.
@roscoe_casita I relate to this. I don't think a raise is automatic, but I think employees that are valuable should get raises periodically. It wasn't until I was leaving the first place I worked (for over 3 years) that I realized I should have asked for a couple of raises in that time.
aye @caps
I would have been happy with a % pay raise, or a name raise, but 6 years of nothing... its time to walk.
@caps Sure. The point, however, is that the boundary is rarely (I'm almost tempted to say "never") really set in concrete. Mostly the boundary is just a lower threshold on what guys should approach her right now. But even if she's on the train, wearing headphones, and wearing a sign that says "leave me the hell alone", if her favorite actor (or lead singer, etc.) shows up, chances or her hating his talking to her are minimal, to say the least.
@roscoe_casita And they're losing people because of that. Sounds about right.
they are @Mysticial I know of 2-3 more who tendered their resignations after this last 'review' cycle... "Noone gets anything , except CEO's get massive bonuses because we turned record profit again."
16:53
@JerryCoffin Sure, but I think if you go around saying that there are a lot of guys with poor judgment (or who are just sexist and think they're better than they are) will take that as a license to bother a girl, just in case she is interested in him (which he assumes is a possibility because he is interested in her).
Working with a custom String class (predates std::string). It does not offer iterators, but it does offer a c_str type function.
@roscoe_casita And funny thing is that employee attrition (especially in R&D) takes more than one performance cycle to materialize. :)
There is no back function. Is it cleaner to check length > 0 && string.at(length - 1) != arbitrary_char or to use std::equal (C++14 version) or somesuch?
the fact of the matter is... they pay 30%-50% below standard wages... the only reason they have been able to retain people... has been because there is not a lot of other software/hardware houses in town (changing), thus they don't have to compete on wages
I like the latter better, but I think it's actually more characters and not really much cleaner than the former not cleaner.
the people leaving now are just leaving
16:57
@caps It's a little weird when it does happen, honestly. Usually it's just glances, but one girl was really trying and I got very uncomfortable
@Aaron3468 Suddenly reminds me of the xkcd comics about people shyly writing in their journals about each other on the train.
@roscoe_casita That's one of the reasons why I keep the option open to relocate, but only to places that are urban and have other jobs around. I recommend the same to all my friends who aren't yet tied down by family or other obligations.
@Mysticial I am tied down... kids, friends, house
there are not a lot of options
so I went to the university, and I love to teach... and research... figured out finances could work... and I would do what I love
17:00
@caps Haha, maybe. It's kind of nice to chat with an interested stranger who's been glancing your way, but this one girl was giving pretty unambiguous sex me now signals to a person who rarely ever hugs
@Aaron3468 point and case... what may be 'obvious' sex me now looks for one party... may be completely missed by the other party, and vice versa... the other party says 'they want me'... and they don't at all.
@Aaron3468 Heh, sometimes I forget that young single guys aren't necessarily always interested in doing that at the drop of a hat.
I always thought that would be tempting to me when I was a young man (I was never in such a situation that I'm aware), but maybe I would feel differently if it actually happened.
@roscoe_casita nods
that shit is complicated @caps. if she has had one drink... you can be on the date rape train to prison.
It's probably worse than that. She just needs to scream. And you're fucked for life unless someone had a camera running the whole time.
@roscoe_casita I'm always wary of sharing the story for that reason, and it's why I ignored her. But it's hard to ignore somebody who's basically opening their arms wide, chest inflated and feet facing toward you and licking her lips. I've never before, or since, seen such exaggerated behaviour, so I almost wonder if it was a random act of weirdness for fun
17:04
@roscoe_casita One more good reason not to have sex with strangers, I suppose.
nwp
nwp
@Aaron3468 maybe you made her lose a bet and now she hates you
@Aaron3468 very odd. I like to watch people for a long time before selecting them as friends and even longer as lovers.
@nwp Occam's Razor suggests that you are correct ^^;
one night stand = potential life long fuckery
> I like to watch people for a long time
17:05
FWAP
alright, stupid questions time. I'm coming from 100% windows background, going to a Mac / Unix shop university. Already ordered the mac book, can't fight that train.
nwp
nwp
@roscoe_casita With that attitude the only thing that makes sense is run away as fast as you can whenever approached by a person. Society cannot function like that.
What distro of unix should I run
Mint is nice, Ubuntu friendly. I haven't used many others
I'm leaning towards Ubuntu because of the support base
nwp
nwp
why would a university tell you what OS to run... that goes against some core principles of a university
17:09
@nwp they don't tell you what OS to run.
But they give you a Mac Desktop.
Everyone has a mac laptop.
Everyone uses the same programs... that run best on a Mac.
you can run any os you want...
but if you want to fit in... you know what to do.
nwp
nwp
just run windows then
nwp
nwp
if you want to fit in you are probably the weird guy
^^ I'm looking at the screenshot right now. It shows Google being among the worst in tenure.
It doesn't link the source nor does it show what the units are. (I assume they are in years.)
It could be biased by the fact that Google is growing so fast that nobody has been there for a very long time.
But 1.1 years is shorter than my stay at Google. lol
I find that a lot of articles are based upon poor studies and dubious statements by non-experts. Not to say they don't catch onto trends, just that they're inclined to sensationalism
17:13
@sehe thanks, I haven't seen that one yet; I'll accept this as a fact then :)
I read it on the internet...
must be true!
Oof and they're basing the conclusion on PayScale... a survey no less >.>
@Aaron3468 I don't care about the ratings. Those are bullshit. But the tenure number should be fairly objective unless there is observational bias.
I never changed teams when I was at Google. But during my time there, probably around 75% of the team had changed. All in 22 months.
So I became one of the "senior" members of the team. But still just an entry-level developer.
Voluntary surveys are among the most bias-prone. I'm more inclined to believe the estimate of 3 years average tenure, as that seems (I haven't finished or fact checked) to have been quoted from an expert source
@Mysticial True, turnover's pretty crazy at many workplaces I've been in. I haven't worked in tech yet though. My issue is mostly with the content of the article, not the conclusion honestly. It isn't well researched or cited and ends on the type of suggestions people give when they don't understand the topic deeply
17:35
lol
@rightfold That one sparked a lot of controversy, IIRC.
@fredoverflow That's very un-Java-like. You can't make things less explicit and still call it Java.
5
Have you seen the conciseness of Java lambdas? :)
Those aren't the same as anon-classes that everyone uses like lambdas right?
No, Java 8 lambdas look like person -> person.getAge()
(In this case, you could use a method reference instead, which looks like Person::getAge)
That's too concise. It's even more concise than C#. Therefore I conclude it's not Java.
17:41
Well, Android would agree with you, they're still on Java 6 ;)
Ell
Ell
18:10
cryptography is so amazing
@m.s. I think I've seen a question recently that was arguably a bug in x3's trait system. It might have been your question. It's worth chasing this up at the mailing list (the circle of x3 users is quite small, and the behaviour isn't stabilized yet, so improvements are possible/welcome)
@orlp I just added the new version of pdqsort to cpp-sort. Now I'll have to run all the benchmarks again ç_____ç
18:35
3
A: Do we need coordinated efforts to moderate the site?

CodeCasterI think the premise of this question is quite false. It's not "group effort or nothing". You see, if you compare Stack Overflow to a war (note: I hate bad analogies, but I wanted to use one), most of the actual mess-making action happens on the frontline. What you see here, left to right: ...

^^ 3 of his 4 bullets are very similar (if not identical) to the 4 camps of hate that I posted a while back.
ahaha
I remember the SVG
I couldn't resist but notice the similarity between your 4 bullets and the 4 camps of hate that I posted 2 years ago. (Bored Users = camp 3 repwhores, actual bad guys = camp 2 help-vampires, cleaners = camp 1 caretakers) The only one that doesn't match is barbed-wire and camp 4/apathetics. If this was unintentional, then clearly there's some truth to my post if others are independently coming to the same conclusion - albeit with alternate ways to describe it. — Mysticial 39 secs ago
I remember that one :o
I've gone from « answering from time to time » to « mostly not giving a shit » since then :/
The transition also somehow coincides with me being here.
19:02
What linux environment are you running that contains an ancient version of GCC? 4.1 is nearly 10 years old (February 13, 2007)sehe 2 mins ago
19:16
hi
hello
Ven
Ven
helo
@sehe At least it's not the original DevC++ or something.
Rok
Rok
hello
Xeo
Xeo
19:33
@Mysticial oh gawd, DevC++...
my first C++ compiler was DevC++
@Xeo Or TurboC++.
Xeo
Xeo
Haven't used that
I mean, DevC++'s company had a cool name at least. Bloodshed.
@identicon huh. That's a good name actually.
Neither have I. But downvoting questions where the OP uses TurboC++ is mandatory.
11
19:35
It is not. Unless the problem is attributable to it (and that happens a lot)
@Puppy And then you wrote Wide.
has a much better C++ compiler built in
Ven
Ven
If you're just gonna say "this solution is the Best Solutionâ„¢" but not explain why, then yeah I'm going to say "don't" — Ven 7 secs ago
19:49
1423
Q: Our security auditor is an idiot. How do I give him the information he wants?

SmudgeA security auditor for our servers has demanded the following within two weeks: A list of current usernames and plain-text passwords for all user accounts on all servers A list of all password changes for the past six months, again in plain-text A list of "every file added to the server from re...

16
Wat
@sehe That's terrible on so many levels o_o
Reading stuff like that is not good for cardio-vascular death stats
@sehe Is a strong desire to fucking kill myself an appropriate response to that?
No.
It's hardly ever an appropriate response to anything.
20:01
The strong desire to press criminal charges to likely accomplices of scammers is an appropriate response.
>> "Microsoft Azure SDK 2.9" is available
Wow, this changes everything
My gosh, do all browsers have memory leaks???
Not the ones written in Rust
user406009
@Mikhail Rust actually allows memory leaks. It's considered one of behaviors allowed in safe Rust.
user406009
It actually causes quite a bit of chaos for other things.
20:15
other good responses include pointing out that only a portion of FF is written in Rust
@Mikhail None of FF is in Rust yet, right?
iou bois
@sehe holy... &*&#
@caps FF48 shipped an MPEG decoder in rust
20:30
huh, why am I purple now
@sehe but note how gullible the OP was, trying to placate the auditor with fake data etc.
"gullible"? Maybe intimidated
@ScarletAmaranth Booze
@sehe i sure hope our admin knows how to respond to illegal requests
I assume they would.
Now, in this case, he did acquire advice and respond "appropriately"
in a previous job, we had a secretary once provide confidential Executive Board meeting minutes to an outside company, because "we were trained to be customer friendly"
@sehe saved by the bell, his first instinct was to comply, clearly he needs an assertiveness training
20:34
would you execute c++ code in a webserver?
not for the whole functionality of the webserver, ofc, just to connect with the client for little exchange
it's much better to just code it in c++ than to code it in js
it'd be 50 lines in c++, and maybe 100 in js, and i don't know js anyway
not that much anyway
user406009
You could also compile your C++ to JS.
i doubt i could compile the sfml networking module into js though
user406009
Yeah, that wouldn't work.
you see,i need to use sf::Packet for this, cause it's going to be a packet of variable length and i'm way too lazy
and since i can't do udp in a simple way, and i can't do tcp without dynamic packet length, as in, send 1 packet any size, get that packet any size at the other end, without sf::Packet or something of the style...
@TemplateRex This is why I think it's interesting. If this one gets saved by the bell, many can be saved from just reading it.
20:38
it'd be nice to use c++ to do that since i can send std::vector<whatever> in the packet, which is what i'll be using later
it's just a vector of servers, each with server info
user406009
@ChemiCalChems What do you mean by "webserver"? You are already serving HTML pages with some other framework and you want to call your C++ function from inside there?
@sehe yes, he redeemed himself by it, but there must be countless others who have fallen for this scam.
@Lalaland well, not quite. in the same server i'd be hosting a webserver and separetely, this
so it isn't entirely a webserver
@TemplateRex All the more important it gets publicized. Same with fake support scams, phishing etc.
@Mikhail Cool.
20:40
the program would be waiting for incoming connections, and serving them the active servers
user406009
@ChemiCalChems How do you want this C++ code to be accessible? Do you need to propagate HTTP requests to C++? If so, you can look into FastCGI.
There are so many levels of scam.
@sehe also the way e.g. Nigerian scammers operate, they deliberately use spelling errors to filter out the less gullible people, and only spend effort on the greedy ones
scam overflow
user406009
@ChemiCalChems Like what's stopping you from just using boost asio to create a simple TCP server?
20:41
On every level there will be scam artists. And they will find their audience (Africa? India? Your grand parents?)
@Lalaland i want to open a socket at the client end, pull the server info, and cut the socket
@Lalaland nothing really, but it's already done by sfml and sf::Packet is awesome
@TemplateRex This is actually the only sad feeling I get from that SU post. I'm afraid the criminal nature is underestimated and not addressed appropriately.
40 mins ago, by sehe
The strong desire to press criminal charges to likely accomplices of scammers is an appropriate response.
@sehe re criminal nature, here's one for the ages: trustfoundry.net/reverse-engineering-a-discovered-atm-skimmer
I remember that guy who played the game of an Asian scammer.
In his latest mails, he called the guy « Dear dragon brother of the rising sun upon a calm valley ».
21:04
isn't there a venting room here in chat?
2
@ChemiCalChems occupied by Puppy
@TemplateRex i'd find my place, that's for sure
When you want to buy a 2013 post black metal album and it's sold 108~130€ on Amazon.
11$ on ebay. Deal.
21:38
piratebay- free
I like physical albums from time to time.
Rok
Rok
i'm currently listening to artists who make all of their music free so I don't have to feel bad cause I don't have to pirate them :)
@Morwenn In the late 80's I liked physical albums so much I found greater value in the albums, LPs, that had been pressed using a different colored vinyl.
Isn't that a bit extreme?
@Morwenn I'm an idiot from time to time. Fortunately I seem to unidiotize myself on a fairly regular basis.
21:44
I feel dumber with the years, but I also often look at my past self thinking that it was actually even dumber.
Rok
Rok
hm?
It is a progression of sorts.
@CaptainGiraffe No, I was replying to you :p
=) I removed all incriminating evidence to the contrary.
Rok
Rok
haha
21:51
I had one of these eil.com/images/main/…
Depeche Mode?
I was with them up until 1988 or so.
Care for a little remix?
Ok, it's from a 2005 song .___.
@Morwenn Physical albums? Next you'll be telling me you want things written on paper...
@Puppy Duh, of course I do. When I'm in front of a screen I'm too mentally weak to keep my concentration.
And I've got to sleep otherwise I'll be too weak to work tomorrow.
Bye.
22:04
it takes less time to build a valid exe and debug/print stuff that asking this question on SO. — Jean-François Fabre 2 hours ago
^^ Maybe the OP is smart enough to realize that just because it compiles doesn't mean it's valid. :P /cc @Borgleader
(I'm looking at you MSVC.)
@Morwenn I would have preferred they went this way after their fourth(?) album.
These are the preferences I remember from a very young Giraffe.
"guys, I am writing software that (insert really difficult idea that hasn't really been done before) and I can't find code for that. I just need the hard part. I'll do the rest" — rabbit guy 9 hours ago
@CaptainGiraffe More fun: coloredvinylrecords.com
@Morwenn The followup was great. Infected Mush. "People are strange"
@JerryCoffin Yeah I had a few of those colors. "Håll det äkta" and "Smalltalk". The names even resonates.
22:21
anybody good with shitFML
?
no need, it was purely my fault
oh well, at least it works
@Mysticial I never understood these "will this run" questions, like... just run it -.-;
also there was no ub in sight, the only odd thing is the conditional on a string literal
also, i doubt op is smart enough to realize that, if they were the question would be more focused
Actually no, it neither compiles nor runs: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/485cc2def04d1eff
:D:D:D:D
@ChemiCalChems Your life seems a constant emotional roller coaster, from where I'm sitting
@sehe yeah, kinda accurate
22:36
@Mysticial The guy misspelled his username. Surely meant "rabid"
@sehe Is there a word for a combination of hilarious yet scary?
Trump?
> /home/sehe/WORK/.../common/tests/import_tester.cpp:90:10: sorry, unimplemented: mangling constructor
Yeah, fuck you too, gcc
I guess that works
Grrrr. I hate supporting old compilers
22:55
so wait
no tcp for multiplayer games?
depends on the kind of game
@sehe Interesting. :D
So, for an RTS game the field of view is limited so it should be possible to avoid transferring the whole game state. I would go with tcp, and focus on reducing network traffic at the game logic level. For example, don't transfer positions, transfer intents of positions...
Stupid libxml++ doesn't have version defines before ... version 2.8 or so
Good job. How will we detect the header version, mofos
23:00
@Mikhail i'm thinking going tcp to uplink user input to the server, since that isn't good to be lost, but downlink udp gamestate
@sehe bahaha
@sehe OMFG!?
@sehe Check for version macro, reject if not present.
i'm gonna do tcp up udp down, seems like a good idea
@JerryCoffin That's not allowing compilation
23:02
@ChemiCalChems This is a red haring, the difficulty here is the logic involved in reducing the network traffic, and server load. Go with TCP as a prototype and focus on reducing network overhead in the game logic.
@Mikhail my logic behind choosing tcp to uplink user commands and udp game states is that you can't miss a user order, but it's ok if the user misses a couple of gamestates
or not...
i mean, old gamestates are useless
so i should go udp down
@ChemiCalChems So, you should only be transfer game state \deltas (or similar), they are not necessarily useful. BUT once again, the performance of your game will have nothing, nothing to do with the choice-between TCP and UDP.
http://choongsoo.info/docs/starcraft2.netgames12.pdf
I would try to emulate wtv SC:BW was doing, should be "simple enough" considering it was done in the 1990s
@Mikhail Keith Haring?
@Mikhail i just want to make it as reliable as possible for the player, i know tcp is reliable but in case it fails, it has to resend stuff, which may be useless
23:08
6 messages moved to bin
@ChemiCalChems You should use SCTP!
@wilx ok google
@ChemiCalChems It is the shiny new thing.
@wilx i'll... stick with the old stuff
especially when my networking lib doesn't support sctp yet
maybe i'll move later on
i feel like it's a hell of a big decision, but maybe it isn't really
UDP vs. TCP is taught a lot in schools, but the difficult problems, like how to architecture you're code typically isn't because the people teaching haven't worked in that field.
23:20
@Mikhail then i'll make my decision
for now, i'll go tcp up, udp down
if i say something is not performing, i'll reconsider my choice
@ChemiCalChems If you're going to have a TCP connection open anyway, just use it for both directions.
@JerryCoffin hm...
so udp or tcp completely?
i can use it, but for other purposes
for chat for example
what creeps me out about udp is that it's not reliable
@ChemiCalChems UDP doesn't involve a connection (it's a connectionless protocol). TCP does. If you're going to create a connection anyway, you might as well just use it unless you really need to minimize latency (e.g., doing voice chat).
fucking hell
i'm thinking on going random.org
figure out your network logic first :-)
also take a look at how other people wrote it, for example glest or 0 ad
23:35
@Mikhail Or just download ZeroMQ, and move on to the next decision.
@JerryCoffin I love that thing :-)
don't bring more stuff into play...
my head hurts already...
xd
23:56
decided
for everything non time dependent, go tcp
else, go udp
period
i'll also make sure to make a udp check at user login
just to diagnose if the connection is looking good or not
that sounds stupid
night
00:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

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