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09:00
one more reason to fuck pounds
I agree
Ben
Ben
erm.
the metric system is better.
@doug65536 do you know any accredited course for ultralight helicopters?
Ben
Ben
@Telkitty Ask here: aviation.stackexchange.com
09:07
Take-off Thrust: 4 kN
Dry Weight: 117.62 kg
woah
Ven
Ven
@rightfold should I wrap Perl values? :v
no cba
user1804599
I don't know what you mean.
@Ben I am currently reading a whirlpool thread related to it
@BartekBanachewicz 22,000 horsepower, er, I mean, 16.3MW. nice
next time someone complains about leaving a light on I'll tell them that helicopters are tens of millions of watts
Ven
Ven
@rightfold btw, in 5.24, push/pop/.. SCALAR has been removed
:[ (or moved to a flag)
user1804599
09:17
Nice. :)
user1804599
You know what's really cool.
user1804599
Functions that are marked as pure and total, and that return Unit, I can optimize out entirely, since the runtime representation of Unit values is unspecified.
user1804599
As of today, one billion people are using WhatsApp.

That's nearly one in seven people on Earth who use WhatsApp each month to stay in touch with their loved ones, their friends and their family.
user1804599
And terrorists. :F
@Ven s/pretty/ugly/
09:29
it's quite funny that I randomly meet both @Ven and @rightfold in a random IRC channel
@rightfold Terrorists have loved ones, friends and family too
@ScarletAmaranth I don't think random means what you think it means
arbitrary then
I am actually quitting whatsapp - I have unlimited messages each month & whatsapp costs bandwidth
also people can't block sms, they can however disable whatsapp notifications
@ScarletAmaranth I'm going to go theorize wildly for 2 seconds here. I think Ven started coming into the lounge only after he met rightfold on (that IRC|some other channel)
@ScarletAmaranth It's not arbitrary in any way.
It's a fundamental thinko to label unplanned/unexpected things arbitrary or random
nwp
nwp
it is another thinko to go with mathematical definitions of words instead of what the words actually mean
09:34
@nwp what does it mean, pray tell
nwp
nwp
in this particular usage it meant something like unplanned/unexpected
Ven
Ven
@ScarletAmaranth yes we currently are in #perl :P
which still feeds into sehe’s point
@sehe it is quite obvious that we share common interests and might end up in the same place; it was an exaggeration from my part to give it an extra "giggle" moment :P
:) I giggled
Ven
Ven
09:36
@sehe actually it makes a lot of sense, we're just retarded
kids today use "random!" as a term to mean "you are a weirdo" or something
That's one other meaning in context
Whereas the "actual meaning" of the word (say, root or origin) is not something like that.
nwp
nwp
@LucDanton how so? a word was used correctly in this context and pointing out that in that other context it doesn't make sense doesn't even look like a point to me
user1804599
The first optimization I'll implement is dead code elimination.
user1804599
Which is simple mark & sweep.
nwp
nwp
09:39
I thought dead code elimination is hard because it can be reduced to the halting problem
maybe it works ok in non-pathological situations
user1804599
Eliminating dead code is easy.
user1804599
Eliminating all dead code is in general impossible.
heh waterpolo is the silliest sport ever
@nwp you can usually trivially determine that a basic block is unreachable because there are no longer any branches to it and it is not reachable from fall through
did you forget about curling
09:45
@nwp Most things in compilers can.
The halting problem is not very important in practice.
It doesn't prevent good enough solutions, only perfect ones.
Ven
Ven
@ScarletAmaranth it's okay, I like when u giggle bby
@sehe really curling makes way more sense
@rightfold dead code elimination happens by itself in a tracing JIT, because it only creates instructions for reached code paths
hm I wonder why cars aren't powered by turboshaft engines
09:53
akrzemi1.wordpress.com/2016/05/10/diagnosable-validity nice post - but I always read it thinking it's Sutter's Mill. It's so similar
nwp
nwp
traction by wheels is better than traction on air?
@BartekBanachewicz I think one or two supercars used some sort of turbine
I think some sort of APU is a great way to power a vehicle. I don't know why that is not done for a vehicle like a prius or some other expensive environmentalist car
to turn an alternator
nwp
nwp
@doug65536 Awesome Propulsion Unit
@nwp can do the marketing
I want one already and it doesnt even exist
what amuses me is, there is almost no attempt to recover energy from the exhaust stream. a lot of energy is just thrown away out the exhaust
at high throttle, an enormous amount of energy is pushed out the exhaust and thrown away
10:09
@doug65536 um and what do you think a turbocharger is
a device that captures exhaust power to pressurize air into the intake to allow more fuel to be used per stroke
hardly "almost no attempt" imho
@doug65536 so precisely what you wanted
yeah it helps push more fuel into the engine. hardly using the exhaust for efficiency. it does let you use a smaller engine to improve idle efficiency
it extracts more power from less fuel and smaller engine
how
what about economy of scale?
why not use 100 engines in a ship? why a bit 50000 horsepower engine
10:12
maintenance
it's cheaper to maintain one big engine than several small ones because of complications involved
@doug65536 I suppose this is pretty complex.
But nevertheless modern cars burn less fuel for a Wh than before
The largest diesel engine 'to buy' ( in 2002 ) is the Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C turbocharged two-stroke ships engine - the 14 cylinder, 1,556,002 cu. in. ( 25,498 litre ) model produces 108,920 hp at 102 rpm
^^ hiddeous. 4hp/L
at 102 rpm. what is the radius of the crankshaft? 6 feet? lol
the torque would be outrageous
7.6M Nm
7600 newton kilometers lol ( dont worry I am joking )
newton kilometers
nwp
nwp
7.6 Nmk²
10:28
@doug65536 which rougly means that if you were standing on a 10km-long pole attached to the crankshaft, the engine would be able to lift you up
yes lol
@doug65536 but yeah, turbojet engines have way more power
user1804599
I wonder if I should apply for this boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/…
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, and they weigh nothing compared to that diesel
nwp
nwp
10:45
@BartekBanachewicz this is awesome, I want it
hmphf I need stronger glasses
Ell
Ell
Me too
which is a pity because the ones I have were pretty expensive and I like them
@nwp you know it requires quite a lot of skill to fly such models
nwp
nwp
I expect them to have beginner models that are slower and easy to fly
maybe even have the software prevent you from crashing into stuff
@nwp it does't work that way
nwp
nwp
10:49
I can imagine starting with a helicopter instead
@nwp Those are called quadrocopters/drones
@nwp Which is much, much harder to fly.
if you want something easy to fly, a multi-prop drone is probably your best bet
a regular plane will probably be faster and more battery efficient
I have a bikeshed to paint, or at least I hope so
What to call the invented variables that are used when describing or specifying concepts? E.g. this Boost.Range concept has a 'Notation' paragraph that introduces a variable a which is then later used
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz just get lenses replaced right
nwp
nwp
I have a firestorm spy which is very easy to fly, I'm pretty sure they can use something similar
In Concepts-Lite e.g. requires(Foo thing) { … } these are dully called the requires parameters, which sounds a bit dry and technical
10:53
@Ell the lenses are 80% of the cost
@nwp well this is a few leagues below what was in that vid
the bigger your model gets, the bigger the responsibility in short
user1804599
Rust iterators are rad.
user1804599
Just one method you have to implement and you're done.
@nwp hmm I should order myself a model
in other places such as the Standard or Boost.MPL documentation placeholders are defined on the go, e.g. 'for any Iterator i' or 'for any Random Access Sequence s the following must be met:'
there's plenty of space to fly things here
but I think I'd rather have a plane
Ell
Ell
10:57
@BartekBanachewicz right
These parameters have no linkage, storage, or lifetime; they are only used as notation for the purpose of defining requirements.
looks like 'notation' is a recurring term
going back a bit, 'notation' is also used in the SGI STL
besides a plane actually forces me to go outside
hmm this one seems to be a recommended one
user1804599
11:20
pub fn outgoing_edges<'a>(&'a self, block: BlockID) -> CFGOutgoingEdges<'a> {
    self.blocks.get(&block)
        .expect("invalid block ID")
        .insts.iter()
        .map(|i| self.insts.get(&i).unwrap())
        .find(|i| i.is_block_terminating())
        .expect("block has no block-terminating instruction")
        .target_blocks()
}
user1804599
So rad.
Ven
Ven
thank god for expect, right? ;)
user1804599
:):):)
user1804599
And it's super-efficient
user1804599
there's no dynamic allocation in this function at all
11:57
@rightfold indeed
is there a way to bind containers to to parts of a grammar in spirit::qi?
user1804599
summon @sehe
like instead of double_[[&](auto&&i) { array[0] = i; }] >> double_[[&](auto&&i) { array[1] = i; }] do something like repeat[2](double_, &array)
i want to read a 3x3 matrix using a parser and ended up with a lambda that increments counters to know which element is actually parsing
i mean it works but it's ugly
nwp
nwp
@gnzlbg welcome to C++?
nah it must be just me being a spirit nub, it took 5 mins to write an ASCII STL parser with it
im actually very impressed of the library
user1804599
12:10
rightfold what's iron for?
looks interesting
user1804599
It's like LLVM but for high-level targets.
user1804599
E.g. JS, PHP, Python, C# etc
so the input is IR and the output is e.g. php ?
user1804599
yeah
nice
user1804599
12:14
"ir" in "iron" means IR :P
I was just looking for an LLVM opt "replacement" written in Rust
the other day
can't wait for simulators that allow you to practice playing RC flight simulators
World of World of Warcraft anyone
i remember using these types of simulators 20 years ago
basically if you were setting up your own rc controller it was a way to test the controller and adjust it
most of them were very configurable so it actually made sense to play a bit with them on the simulator to see if you liked something before hardwiring the actual plane or helicopter
dunno, for me the controllers used for rc planes look really bad
I'd much rather use something like my X52
i mean you need a table for that which is a minus but I can't possibly see those small thumb based thingys being accurate enough
can you use your X52 while standing?
i mean as a child I usually had to go up a mountain to fly "motor-less" planes
so carrying a table is not always practical if you cannot get to the place by car
and even when you can, your plane/helicopter flies "around you" so being able to rotate 360 degrees is important.
for motorless/helicopters is not relevant, but for motorless planes you actually have to throw/catch them so being able to control them till the end is also important
nwp
nwp
12:35
@gnzlbg do not use throw/catch for control flow purposes!
I may have eaten a clown today
nwp
nwp
my uni is <s>trying to</s> screwing me over
:(
user1804599
oh I was so confused
user1804599
My module is called "cfg" (control flow graph), and there's an attribute #[cfg(test)], and I thought wtf why would the module name be in the attribute. Appears in Rust "cfg" is short for "config".
yes those are config attributes
you can use them for tons of stuff
12:49
@gnzlbg yeah I suppose this is a huge argument
I have my order ready on amazon
to buy or not buy
eh fuck it whatever the worst case I crash the plane into the lake at day 1
its fun
and if you crash the plane you can repair it
which is also fun
shit the battery set doesn't ship here
where is here?
nwp
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz send it to me and I'll forward it to you
which plane does the battery fit to again?
@nwp nah it's fine I found one sold by the same shop
0.50eur more but w/e
13:02
nwp
nwp
rundall ran out of ideas?
uh crap amazon doesn't support paypal
I always bounce off that :/
@nwp Isn't the thing at the top more or less "Even more ideas!"? :P
it's almost like the world didn't want me to buy the goddamn thing
@BartekBanachewicz I have a few hundred euros stuck on PayPal that I can't send to my bank account because of their administrative fuckups.
Wish I could just use it on Amazon.
13:10
amazon doesn't sell a lot of stuff in Australia, sometimes I drool because the price is so cheap and yet delivery to my location is not available
service on ebay is sh!t
so I deleted my account
I could prolly send the money to my account but dunno
I use Paypal in general
hmpfh
I use paypal too
and I have transferred money from paypal to my account before without any problems
just some transaction fees
but I guess TT would have costed me more
Just buy some Bitcoin.
or don't buy anything online
wot
I'm not really into buttcoin, no
13:22
But you cannot spend it on Amazon either!
@gnzlbg yes. It's not very specific like that though :(
How does bitbucket earn money?
by selling jira
@gnzlbg qi::parse(f,l,double_>>double_, myarray[0],myarray[1])
I see
13:24
Also see boost/fusion/adapted/array.hpp or so
@R.MartinhoFernandes the problem is that if I transfer it to my account it stops being imaginary internet money and real money is much harder to spend
I don't like to have a stack of cash around on my savings account in the fear of me wasting it somewhere and spend it all.
user1804599
I wish writing C++ iterators was this easy.
user1804599
Wrapping an iterator that filters by the result of another iterator in four lines of code.
user1804599
@Shoe organization user count limit
13:37
oh cool
so it turns out you can plop a camera on this one
it's now 20% cooler
shit i think I am going to lose that battle
@sehe The emails I get from them still say "C/C++".
Oh well.
hey folks!
okay this is pretty amazing
TIL "friend" is a false friend in Swedish.
13:45
how did you learn that and what does it mean?
sounds like you just had a really negative experience with a swedish friend
@JohanLarsson I found out that "frände" means relative, not friend. Is that wrong?
Do Swedes even have friends?
#include <bits/basic_string.h> ? What the fuck? "Doctor, it hurts when I do this undocumented, unreliable thing! Well then stop doing that." — milleniumbug 44 secs ago
This is new
@EtiennedeMartel No don't think so, in sjweden saying someone is a friend would be exclusive hate speech.
13:49
I thought relationships in Sweden were basically about finding people to invite to your place so you could show off how cool your IKEA furniture looks.
@sehe thanks!
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not sure frände is an old word, själsfrände means soulmate iirc.
most common word for friend is vän
Right, so the word that sounds like "friend" doesn't mean friend.
Looks like you are right relative or likeminded.
@sehe it seems from the tutorial that spirit is very "value" focused when parsing (e.g. from the employee and xml examples). At the beginning it briefly explains semantic actions but then the tutorial never uses it
I have something like the employee example, but where I would like to use setters to set the values that get parsed
is there a way to do this directly?
i guess that instead of writing [val_ += _1] I can just pass function objects there
Here I go reflog digging for a dropped stash.
@gnzlbg That one is supposed to use Phoenix to create anonymous function objects
So, yes, you probably can
it feels weird to have to specify qi::rule<Iterator, void> and qi::grammar<Iterator, void>
13
Q: Boost Spirit: "Semantic actions are evil"?

KostyaReading and watching this presentation: http://boost-spirit.com/home/2011/06/12/ast-construction-with-the-universal-tree/ I've discovered this statement -- basically we are suggested not to use semantic actions. I must admit, that I've already felt something like that: grammars with semantic act...

@gnzlbg BOOST_FUSION_ADAPT_ADT
@gnzlbg Use x3 for lambdas :) It's really not nice to be using semantic actions ^^
13:59
sehe I want to parse into a concept
@R.MartinhoFernandes Or just git fsck --unreachable (or similar)
I don't have any specific struct
@gnzlbg Sounds great. Share some code on Stack Overflow and I might get what you want :)
BOOST_FUSION_ADAPT_ADT looks nice
@gnzlbg So, specialize boost::spirit::traits::assign_.....<T>?
@gnzlbg Beware, I had some UB pitfalls when using it (I decided not to do that anymore)
14:03
thanks for the tips, the more i learn about qi the more amazed i am that it works
i just hope that I can reuse my gramar later in karma for output as well
but i am not there with the learning yet
@sehe fyi
It says no leak, question now is if I can trust it :)
@sehe are those UB related to dangling references?
I had those when using lambdas as semantic actions for setters while writting my parser
I just stopped default capturing everything by reference and started specifying the captures exactly and got rid of all of those
Found my stash.
@sehe That's what I meant, actually.
Why should one conform to REST standards?
I thought there were no REST standards
Someone used a wrong word oh no
14:11
@Shoe de facto standard
@Shoe de facto vs de jure.
And we have that for designing REST API?
It seems to me that everybody and their mother has an opinion on how REST APIs should be designed
$ git commit
unix2dos: converting file C:/Users/fernandesm/workspace/acbm_graciosa/.git/COMMIT_EDITMSG to DOS format...
dos2unix: converting file C:/Users/fernandesm/workspace/acbm_graciosa/.git/COMMIT_EDITMSG to Unix format...
6
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
lol
@Shoe Yes, but there are also some general principles
user1804599
14:17
All references to instructions by instructions in this CFG are to instructions in this CFG.
user1804599
Is this clear?
nwp
nwp
"If I star a message in chat and it gets removed, how does the star get back to me?" <- good question for meta?
how does this look to you folks? in terms of looks, the content doesn’t matter and is cribbed from Boost
user1804599
user1804599
14:25
so i am trying to create a grammar

`template<class It> my_grammar : qi::grammar<It> { `
`my_gramar() : my_grammar::base_type(start) {};`
`qi::rule<It> start;`
`};`
And spirit complains about incompatible start rule :/
@JohanLarsson You can.
@gnzlbg Yes
@gnzlbg lambdas are more straightforward :0
i am an idiot
nwp
nwp
@LucDanton maybe red is not the best color for that
@gnzlbg You can read the "first things first" here:
4
A: Boost.Spirit : how to parse length preceeding byte array?

seheFirst things first: grammar.hpp:75:13: error: static assertion failed: incompatible_start_rule... means (surprise) that you use an incompatible start rule. The offender is the locals<> argument that is missing on the grammar baseclass declaration. Instead of adding that implementation detai...

@BartekBanachewicz Absolutely
@gnzlbg needs SSCCE
@gnzlbg oh
14:32
I think I am less disgusted when someone talks publicly about watching porn than watching chinese art
You have many sensibilities
@BartekBanachewicz Japanese girl (inferred from the name) in Chinese art?
@BartekBanachewicz I rarely distribute my precious stars but this one's got me
@nwp that’s the theme, not that I entirely disagree but to give some perspective
14:44
@LucDanton S U K K
@набиячлэвэлиь sure, any specifics though?
Ven
Ven
yo
@sehe how can you be so sure?
It's bad, inconcise, ugly
nwp
nwp
@LucDanton the lack of links is probably also not important now. Something bothers me with the design, I think it is that the indention is too big. There is hardly a visual connection between Notation: and Rng rng: a model.
14:48
@набиячлэвэлиь 'inconcise' to me is criticism towards content, not layout etc.
it's deffo layout
@sehe this way it fails, this is how I tested with dotmemory, the second passes.
I don't want to include it in the suite as it requires dotMemory installed iirc.
user1804599
RIP
user1804599
Also I love the crimson avatar.
user1804599
14:54
It looks like a rose.
@BartekBanachewicz lmao wat
@Ven where did I put that facepalm

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