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3:00 PM
oh, you also get a few new skill trees soon enough :)
 
the only useful definition of "soon enough" is "as soon as I have skill points I wish to expend in that direction"
anything else is just mindlessly irritating
also, unskippable cutscenes? and the game doesn't pause when it loses focus? owch
 
Why'd you skip cutscenes in a story-driven game?
 
because I started another character with another class and have already seen this specific segment?
 
also, because I read the plot summaries on Wikipedia
 
3:08 PM
@DeadMG :O
 
@thecoshman What?
games are to be played, not be watched
2
 
@DeadMG amen to that
 
I hate unskippable cutscenes. Even the first time around.
 
well
personally, it staggers me that people design any single-player RPG system that does not focus on offering the player the maximum amount of choice
and for MP systems, I can get the balance argument, although I'm not sure it'd be worth t
 
there lazy?
 
3:11 PM
but I just don't see the point of an "RPG" where you can't actually make the choice
 
@DeadMG because some of them try to tell a specific story, rather than giving you a big sandbox for doing whatever you like?
Mind you, ME does have quite a bit of choice throughout it
 
then why bother with classes and such at all? just make an FPS
 
@DeadMG I don't see the connection. Why can't you have classes in a story-driven game?
If it makes you any happier, ME2 and 3 are much more FPS-like
 
well, I'm pretty sure that their story is not dependent on whether or not I chose to skill in sniper rifles or whether I chose to skill in assault rifles
 
anyway, you don't have to play it
 
3:14 PM
that's true
and I did just delete it, so that's a winner
 
good, does that mean we won't have to listen to more little-girl whining?
2
 
oh, I'm sorry, you don't have to be here
 
that's a retarded argument
 
that's true. But if we can be here without having to listen to endless streams of petty whining, that's even better
I mean, what do you want? A pat on the head and our sincerest sympathies for having to endure such a terrible game?
 
that can work for me
but more realistically, I don't see why sharing a negative opinion about the game and it's design is any different to sharing any other opinion about the game and it's design
 
3:20 PM
there's a difference between sharing an opinion and bitching an opinion.
 
It isn't. But when your "opinion" amounts to endless whining about how hard you have it, and how stupid everyone else are, it's kind of hard to turn it into an interesting debate
there was no question, no room for disagreement, no interest in what anyone else thought
 
nor has there ever been
 
just a stream of word-vomit about how hard it is to be right in a world where everyone else is wrong
 
well, it's funny, cause I thought that you raised a point about classes and stories, and then I raised a counter-point about classes and stories
 
Er, no. You said that if you're going to have a story you might as well ditch classes and make an FPS. Three completely unrelated statements which you somehow seemed to think were connected. I said there were no connection between them, and then you said you'd uninstalled the game
mind you, that was after 40 minutes of asking how the game worked and bitching about every single aspect of it
 
3:25 PM
I am probably getting the wrong end of the stick, but why can't you have story and RPG?
 
@thecoshman Because then you mgiht as well make an FPS, I believe the answer was
I don't get it either
 
@jalf is that an honest response from you, or a sarcastic one?
 
Anyway, it's kind of hard not to feel that you're just wasting our time when you first ask questions about how ME works, and then whine about everything you dislike about it, and then say you uninstalled it. If you hated it that much, you could have uninstalled it before wasting our time asking how the skill system worked.
And complaining about unskippable cutscenes isn't exactly the best way to start a discussion, since the only valid answer is clearly "yeah, I'm sorry you have to suffer the unskippable cutscene"
@thecoshman Very sarcastic. :)
anyway, I'm heading home
 
seeya
 
3:28 PM
@jalf oh, well in that case. Yeah, story has no place in modern games, I just want to blow shit up
see ya @jalf
 
why won't my comment link get expanded?
 
not sure
one boxing is odd
 
@rubenvb because that's not what comment links do
 
@sehe ok then. Question links expand, chat message links expand. Stupid Chat.
Stupid, stupid comment.
 
0
A: C++ override final and pure virtual methods

refpI assume that you have been misinformed on how pure virtual member-functions are dealt with and what they are for. Only the member-functions declared to be pure virtual must be defined in the objects inheriting from your base. I'm guessing you are confusing it with the fact that the whole Base w...

 
3:32 PM
Stupid @rubenvb :P
 
did I explain that clear enough? I'm feeling a bit off today (probably due to the fact that I'm sick)
 
@thecoshman just read his response to my comment on his comment. The man is crazy beyond repair
holy crap they're pooing on me with books saying pointers are ints
 
@thecoshman aw come on. Get a life. Just cracking it every other line is not nearly as funny (:P) as you think
 
/* changed the snippet so that short-circuit evaluation won't mess up novice readers when reading the output of the snippet*/
 
@rubenvb probably because they are a positive integer value that refers to a memory address and can have some maths applied to them
@sehe is that about my use of the sticky out tongue, or calling him stupid?
 
3:36 PM
@thecoshman the book comment was out of place (as in completely written in a misread kind of way) and now removed. The other guy still believes ints are pointers.
 
once again it seems that I spend too much time writing a post, and a shorter one (posted after) get the vote-ups.. people are so lazy these days.. "TL;DR", the death of interwebz
 
X11 makes me tired.
 
I guess we will soon be using services as twitter for all sorts of information, fcuk wikipedia. #gotwitter
 
Or maybe it's the fact I woke up around 4.
 
@refp just a tl;dr sections to you posts
@CatPlusPlus from what I know about X11, it is surely X11 that is making you tired
 
3:38 PM
@thecoshman they have to read the first two paragraphs..
 
I think it's both.
 
@refp IIRC there's a tl;dr version of wikipedia
 
@thecoshman stackoverflow.com/q/9739815/1090079 I mean, come on?
 
@refp it is a tricky game balancing sufficient detail whilst avoiding waffling
 
@rubenvb that answer has a "too many comments" flag against it too
 
3:41 PM
@thecoshman I always try to stay on topic (even though I tend to drift off), but I didn't go that far in the post in question, but I guess you are right..
 
@awoodland Done. The comments are messed up now that wberry removed his ugly falsehood.
 
@refp I'm not really commenting on your answer, just stating my opinion on the subject of answering questions on SO. You also need to factor the that rep makes right on SO
 
@thecoshman sadly that is the case, yeah :-/
 
o_0 why is your ":-/" funny?
 
@thecoshman "funny"?
it's.. bold. I always do that so make it easier to see that it's a smilie and not part of any code snippet or whatever.
 
3:46 PM
oh I see
:-/ :-/
oh yeah
 
I wonder what my first SO question should be..
 
@refp do a i++ + ++i one. I dare you.
 
Xeo
@refp Preferrably, a problem you encountered while programming that hasn't been asked before :P
 
why don't you wait until you have a problem
 
I think I will manufacture a really good one to earn myself a golden star, probably answering it myself and get two.. ;-)
 
3:48 PM
@refp golden star?
 
@Xeo I'm a little ghetto kid, working part time as a fashion model.. do you honestly think I do any programming?
@rubenvb golden badge, though star sounded more.. wickedlyawesome
 
@refp I just gave you a golden star. Not very interesting, is it?
 
@Xeo not that little anymore though, going on 23 but still.. models don't write software - it's against.. some law
 
@refp I almost didn't vote your answer because of your gratuitous rep-whoring
 
@rubenvb stars in here don't count!
 
3:50 PM
actually, in chat you can only give others golden stars
 
So apparently there's a film about Nazis on the moon.
 
@keithlayne I can't see how it's "rep-whoring" (in it's common use) when I actually provide answers that answers what OP is asking for. Or at least tries very hard to
 
any stars you get given are black
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus There's a mahjong manga that features those!
 
@CatPlusPlus is it called "Nazis on the moon"?
 
3:51 PM
@refp did I forget the :) ?
 
Iron Sky.
 
@thecoshman oh yeah, true... damn. to get a golden star, you need to give one :-)
 
@keithlayne maybe.. ;-)
 
@rubenvb but you don't get it do you
 
@thecoshman "you get a star" as in "a golden star appears on your screen"
 
3:54 PM
@rubenvb but that's not the same :(
any way, home time for me
this week has been slow
I fucking learnt whitespace for god sake!
any ways
 
Does anyone know how to use WM_UPDATEUISTATE and WM_CHANGEUISTATE after you call SetParent?
I'm not sure what to do with them, but MSDN says I should
 
if you don't need them, don't use them
 
@SethCarnegie you remind me of a colleague of mine who started coding for winblowz, he got fired..
@SethCarnegie haha, just kidding!

I killed him..
the awkward silence is getting me uncomfortable.. @SethCarnegie, are you still alive?
@SethCarnegie!?
 
@CheersandhthAlf the page for SetParent says
> When you change the parent of a window, you should synchronize the UISTATE of both windows. For more information, see WM_CHANGEUISTATE and WM_UPDATEUISTATE.
 
@SETHCARNEGIE!?!?!?!?
oh snap.. I killed him with telepathy, damn it.. not again
 
4:05 PM
@refp calm down, you don't have to be funny here
 
@SethCarnegie I'm delusional.. not funny.
 
@seth: yeah, that means, if there are any problems with the UI (read: keyboard focus) state after reparenting, then make sure it's fixed
but generally don't reparent
unless you are implementing a framework with dockable windows
and perhaps not even then
 
Ah ok, so reparenting should be avoided if possible
 
is there a way to make a vector graphics mandelbrot figure that recalculates on resize (to add the missing bits from the previous size)?
 
4:23 PM
@rubenvb I bet someone's already done that in post script
 
@awoodland wow, you're right: warp.povusers.org/MandScripts/ps.html
It's mightily short too.
 
My java thing I wrote 5 years ago is cooler though. It can zoom in, change color, do a "Burning Ship" too.
 
There's something nerd cool about being able to make a printer render OpenGL though
 
hmm, I see that I'm editing my unit tests to match my code instead of the other way around. Time to undo that...
 
4:35 PM
@MooingDuck happens to everyone. That's one of the reasons to write them up front. Source control will catch unwarranted edits :)
 
@sehe well, in several cases the unit tests were wrong, so they needed correcting, then I kept on like that :/
 
@MooingDuck ooh the trap. I microcommit. Let nothing slip :)
 
ah, there's my bug. I rounded up on operator>> if the next digit was greater than 5 instead of greater than '5'.
 
@awoodland Dude. You could get like 3500x2400 resolution on A4 paper at 300dpi (less margins) at a framerate of maybe 1/60fps. That’s like…a tenth of a percent of reasonable.
I want to try this.
 
lol
 
4:41 PM
@JonPurdy I did it for figures in my thesis because I got pissed off with writing code to write SVG/PS to generate the figures
it did have something of a DoS effect on acrobat reader though
 
I can only imagine. Adobe software is so comically bloated we don’t even make fun of them for it anymore. Much.
Also yaaay stack languages.
 
LLVM object file linker description: github.com/Bigcheese/lold/commit/…
great, new object file format...
They did switch to C++11, which is cool.
 
I like teaching 9am slots - the people who show up are always keen and then I've got the rest of the day free :)
 
@awoodland has any of your students ever hit you with a fly swatter?
 
4:55 PM
@IntermediateHacker not that I recall
if you shifted the day back an hour so 10am was the earliest slot everyone would complain about that slot too
 
5:16 PM
anyone good with Cmake regex?
I need to extract Clang's target triplet from the clang --version output to get it basically working on Windows.
 
woo! my fixedpoint class passed my tests! Now I need harder tests, because I'm not happy with my IO.
division is only ~50% slower than float, multiplication is 3-5x slower :/
 
that... sucks.
Did you check against double? Chances are it's even faster.
 
@rubenvb I just checked my code, I am testing double, even though my output says "float"
 
lol
 
@rubenvb I knew it would be slow, my class doesn't use floating point anywhere (except for one constructor which constructs from double and can be ifdef'd out)
 
5:26 PM
@MooingDuck SSE/MMX!
how fast is GMP/MPFR/MPC or whatever one does fixed point math?
 
@rubenvb My goal was to make a fixed point class using an arbitrary "denominator" that did not require the implementation to have float. I was targeting micro-controllers that don't have float, so this fixed point should be faster than software emulation.
 
@rubenvb way faster than I can write it but you pay for what you use over float
 
@rubenvb also depends on limitations on the "denominator". A lot of fixed point classes require it to be a power of 2 so they can bit twiddle, mine doesn't require that.
I was hoping the compiler would figure out the bit twiddling for power-of-2 cases, but that might not have happened.
hmm, my timings are inconsistant, now powers of two are fastest. I need bigger test sets.
I'm still thrilled that I managed to calculate 0.1234567890*0.1234567890 as 0.015241578228418518895478229455407 (off by 0.000000034233461681126673127089939) with only integer arithmetic.
 
why is it off by more than your input precision?
 
5:42 PM
@rubenvb all math and intermediate steps are truncated to a multiple of 1/4294967295 for that test.
I tested different denominators: 2, 2147483647, 4294967295, 65536, 11047, 1000, 16, and 19.
obviously, a denominator of 2 isn't very accurate or useful, but a denominator of unsigned 4294967295 only allows numbers 0 to 1.
looks like .1234567890 is stored internally as 0.12345678877...
 
6:17 PM
can I create a for loop to create structures?
 
@LearningC Probably not the way you’re thinking of exactly, but how do you mean?
 
@JonPurdy I'm wonder can I do something like this. for (i=0;i<5;i++) {struct si={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9}} where si goes from s1,s2,s3,s4,s5
 
@MooingDuck can we review it?
 
@LearningC How about an array of structures?
 
You probably want to use an array or another container:

// Using an array called "structures" of 5 "my_struct" instances.
my_struct structures[5];
for (int i = 0; i < 5; ++i) {
structures[i] = my_struct(...);
}
 
6:22 PM
see stackedcroocked, the most elegant one
 
so the best would be to make an array of strucutres.
 
@JonPurdy technically you could use template metaprogramming to 'mimic' this, but it won't get you much gain. Also, the loop bounds must be constexpr then
 
std::vector<s> vec(5, s{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9});
 
@sehe erm, I'm going to go back through and add comments first :(
 
@StackedCrooked Presumably the values of each term would be different.
 
6:24 PM
I guess. I don't really understand the question.
 
He wants a “variable number of variables”, which is what people tend to call it when they want an array or vector or what have you, but don’t know what they’re called.
At least, that’s what I gather.
 
Do you sometimes use functions to wrap throw statements? E.g. ThrowInvalidEnumerator(value); as opposed to throw InvalidEnumerator<MyEnum>(value);
 
@StackedCrooked The only reason I see for something like that is to make ThrowInvalidEnumerator a macro to provide __FILE__ and __LINE__ for messages, though that makes sense mostly for “this should never happen” exceptions.
 
@StackedCrooked yes, makes it obvious to the compiler that the string I pass to the exception is the same for all throw locations, so I don't end up with 18 copies of the same string
also, if I change the string, it changes in all throw locations, not just one.
 
@MooingDuck I'm not sure if I understand. Whether you pass the string as a function argument or as a exception constructor argument doesn't matter.
 
6:31 PM
@MooingDuck That too, though if you have an exception hierarchy, presumably the value in InvalidEnumerator(value) is just a parameter for a standard message anyway.
 
Ah you mean to put the string in the function body.
 
@StackedCrooked no, I mean, put the string in the function
 
@MooingDuck For that I would define new exception type.
In my example I use the function in order to have the enum type inferred.
 
@StackedCrooked seems like overkill to me. A bounds error is a bounds error, but that works too
why doesn't GCC like "unsigned int r = ((unsigned int)(lhs)) * ((unsigned int)(times.value));"? I get "error: expected primary-expression before 'unsigned'"
 
// Dunno why GCC complains, but I would probably write it like this:
unsigned r = unsigned(lhs) * unsigned(times.value);
 
6:45 PM
@StackedCrooked "unsigned int r = unsigned int(lhs) * unsigned int(times.value);" gets me "error: expected primary-expression before 'unsigned'" which is why I tried to wrap them
oh hey, works when it's just unsigned
hmm, how will I do the cast to unsigned long long then?
 
Perhaps the previous statement wasn't terminated correctly.
Ah, never mind then.
 
And people claim GCC is better than MSVC....
 
// Perhaps I would do it like this:
typedef unsigned long long ull_t;
ull_t r = ull_t(lhs) * ull_t(times.value);
 
@MooingDuck It is; it runs on my operating system. :)
 
@StackedCrooked alright, GCC accepts that, good idea
 
6:49 PM
They are both good, and Clang is catching up..
In any case, I don't like C-style casts.
And static_cast is a little verbose imo.
 
@StackedCrooked i = static_cast<unsigned>(c); over i=unsigned(c);?
@StackedCrooked wait, C-style is ((unsigned)c)
 
@MooingDuck I prefer unsigned(c), but only when dealing with built-in types.
@MooingDuck Indeed.
Actually I don't really know the name of the unsigned(n)-style of casting. I used to call it "constructor code" because it resembles a constructor call.
 
@StackedCrooked function-style cast (I just looked it up)
 
Ah, I always thought it was a constructor call
 
@CollinHockey it... usually is.
 
6:53 PM
@MooingDuck Thanks! :)
 
probably had to add that for templates to work right
 
it's not though. Although the difference with trivially_constructible types might be nonexistent.
 
@CollinHockey well sometimes it uses a conversion operator instead of a constructor
 
What is the difference between value-initialization and zero-initialization?
 
@StackedCrooked int x(4); is an example of value-initialization
int x(); also does value initialization (to zero)
int x; is default-initialized in a function, zero-initialized in a global.
 
6:57 PM
@MooingDuck Thanks, also found answer here.
 
@StackedCrooked excellent, I was beginning to remember just how big and complex the explanation is
 
@MooingDuck No, int x(); falls prone to MVP.
 
@DeadMG ah frick. right. If it were a member being initialized with empty params, then it would be value initialized right?
 
yes
also, you could do, say, int x = int();
 
// Boost value_initialized seems useful...
value_initialized<int> i;
 
6:59 PM
@StackedCrooked I do possess such a template
 
I had been considering writing something like that as well.
 

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