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12:00
how can a weekend be 8 days, a week is only 7 days
if you go over 5 its no longer a weekend, its a full-on vacation :P
@Zoidberg how
@Puppy nice
Ven
Ven
@LucDanton it's a function definition
@LucDanton can't be "handled the same as others". method can't be virtual then
And yeah, I'm thinking of open methods.
12:17
only 34 more minutes till I can downvote people on Programmers
nwp
nwp
@Puppy you have way too much fun being an ass to people
what? people who ask crappy questions get downvoted
Ven
Ven
Also, I can prove easily that what I want is very much feasible
OH MY GOD SOURCETREE
user1804599
@slaphappy vOv
12:20
you're not supposed to taste it
Ven
Ven
@LucDanton ^ see my coliru
TIL how to tell Buzz apart from Neil in photographs of the Apollo 11 moonwalks.
Hint: it's Buzz.
@Ven That's... not even remotely equivalent,.
Ven
Ven
2 hours ago, by Ven
VariadicFn call(a, b);
class VariadicFn {
  template<class ...Args>
  operator(Args&&... args);
}
this is exactly what I posted
which like we said, is not even remotely equivalent to virtual templates, which are completely impossible.
your virtual function is pretty much worthless since nobody can possibly override it to return a different function.
12:25
@Ven If you want to show that "virtual something" is feasible, it helps to have a PoC where you actually override it with different behaviours.
Try the trivial thing: override it in a way that nothing happens.
@sehe law enforcement also uses things like leads online that's documents property by serial number and communicates with local pawn shops... And city police probably don't even know how to do something like that
Their it specialists usually just strip HDDs
Ven
Ven
@R.MartinhoFernandes :( I guess to do I'd need to sacrifice any kind of type safety to do anything like that
I won't ever have a need to override it anyways. I just need an interface "because the codebase wants one"
false gods and other false idols.
12:40
A function template is not a function. It's a template for a function. It becomes a function when instantiated. A virtual method is essentially an index that points to an entry in the vtable. I think, if a template virtual method could exist it would create a new entry in the vtable for each different instantiation.
Which would require dynamically sized vtables.
And the derived classes would need to know in advance which instantiations are going to exist.
Which defeats the purpose of templates.
Can't see it work.
However, inside a template member function you can have a local class that inherits a abstract base class. And then.. nah.
tl;dr; template are all about static types, vtables are all about runtime types. lol virtual templates
eh that's not necessarily true.
for example C# can have virtual generics.
It generates code at runtime?
Ven
Ven
means runtime reflection would allow that
@StackedCrooked c# is interpreted :P
@StackedCrooked Yep.
but I'm actually not sure if that's really required for virtual generics.
I think that it has more to do with generics being constrained, and templates being unconstrained.
12:47
@Ven no, you want moar types!!
Ven
Ven
always
I intend to investigate this further for Wide, but I think that it could be possible to offer virtual templates without runtime code generation if you enforced generics-style constraints.
I'm thinking a public member function template that performs type erasure on the arguments and dispatches to private virtual function. And then somehow an unerasure in the derived class. Don't think the last step is possible. Maybe crtp can help, but I think there's gonna be a missing piece..
This problem reminds me of multi-methods for some reason.
user1804599
I don't understand why these libraries store monetary values as integers of "the smallest unit of the currency"
user1804599
They don't have the invariant that x / 2 * 2 == x.
user1804599
12:55
It is so stupid.
no integers, ever, have this invariant
this is a desirable property of currency
@Zoidberg They should use fractions :)
user1804599
They should use rationals.
12:56
Yeah, that's what I meant.
user1804599
Using integers is just dumb.
user1804599
You lose data during computations.
@Puppy It works because there's type information carried to runtime.
Essentially, virtual generic methods are implemented with vtables that are indexed by the type parameters.
I did consider using an approach like that
You don't need full reflection, just type identity, though.
12:58
there's still the question of how you generate the methods being pointed to in the vtable
Oh, yes, all generics are instantiated at runtime.
The implementation has two separate vtables, one static and one dynamic.
Apparently SW:TFA Blue Ray RIP was released on all major torrenting websites before the official release
For those of you who care
It must be some inside job
@Shoe OR HAX
I wonder if "Objective-C++" can do runtime code generation.
@Zoidberg which, again, is the correct way of doing the calculation.
13:07
@Zoidberg The lost data becomes profit for the bank.
@GettingNifty what on earth does that have to do with facebook exif information being available to law-enforcement.
(FYI I'm working on a digital forensics application. I'm interested in facts about digital forensics related to cloud storage. I'm not interested in hypothetical things claimed as nebulous fact)
@Shoe Its coming out in what 2 weeks? I can wait
Nottingham is apparently spending taxpayer's money on ads to demonise the homeless.
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's p fucked up
13:08
@R.MartinhoFernandes or, more specifically, beggars
Ven
Ven
@fredoverflow is it really a "can your brain compile java" video, or are you gonna ask me how eclipse's console deals with unicode diacritics again? :P
(the "watch your money go to fraud" seems to refer to cases where the beggars are in fact not homeless at all)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Taxes: Watch your money go into an ad
> Many of these individuals appear to be 'rough sleeping' when they have already been provided with accommodation and use the money to feed their lifestyle.
I don't get this.
@Ven Oh, it's much more compiler-y, I promise!
13:10
What lifestyle? Sleeping on the street?
WTF.
Ven
Ven
@fredoverflow :P
user1804599
@slaphappy no, it is not always.
Ah well.
@R.MartinhoFernandes It seems logic inversion on Mother Teresa Syndrome
user1804599
Data loss should never be the default if it isn't always the right thing to do.
13:12
@slaphappy depending on context.
In many financial applications, you're right
@Zoidberg The data loss translates to money loss for the customer and money gain for the bank. That totally acceptable! (From the banks's pov)
I have been sleeping rough in the open (while camping), no one donated any $, some animals even tried to steal food from me (I am looking at you possums!)
Shut up, telkitty.
Ven
Ven
@R.MartinhoFernandes that could easily be considered starbait by now :P
13:14
@Telkitty that's cute
not when they are right outside you tent, stealing ...
@Ven It's also a bit of an overreaction. I dislike the desperate attempt of kitty to "appropriate" a topic, but that's hardly a big transgression /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
@R.MartinhoFernandes While I dont agree with the ads, I think the best way to help the homeless is to give money to organisations that help the homeless, that way I know they'll be getting food and shelter (as opposed to smokes and booze).
Just my 2c.
those idiots from packaging refuse to give me a vc8 install that I need to link against that old ass library, because "it's deprecated"
Ven
Ven
@sehe yeah, I'm usually the first one to go after her
13:15
Hmmm, if I create a dynamic std::vector, does all objects it contains become dynamic aswell or does it simply contain pointers to them
so I'm building a huge zip from another machine containing all of vs8
Ven
Ven
@Borgleader no, you only "know" that if you're sure you can trust the organisations more than the homeless themselves
@ReousaAsteron pointers are pointers
@Borgleader Oh right, cause they'll spend all that money on smokes and booze, and... uh, what, starve?
@Borgleader yeah, but those orgs don't have enough money
@Borgleader also apparently city hall would rather spend money on ads that say "don't give" rather than on helping homeless people
Ven
Ven
13:17
@slaphappy on parle de action contre la faim?
@Ven yeah, and many others
Ven
Ven
@slaphappy they're the worst piece of shit existing
they literally have more than 10millions euros in bank.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Plus, I'ld rather give directly to a homeless person than to a charity, since only a part of the money will benefit directly to the poor sob
Ven
Ven
they have tons of employees paid more than 10kE/month
user1804599
During invoice calculation, you're allowed to do rounding before or after summation as you please, for example.
user1804599
13:18
At least under Dutch law.
> Studies on homeless income find that the typical "career panhandler" who dedicates his time overwhelmingly to begging can make between $600 and $1,500 a month
@sehe very good ones make a lot more than that
@Borgleader google.nl/…
I don't give money directly to homeless, I ask them what food they need and myself buy and give it.
@sehe That's around minimum wage.
13:19
@Ven And they get to private companies to do their marketing work for them (I know I once worked for one of these companies :') )
Charity donation telemarketing, hurray
@StackedCrooked It's only 1 quoted study. And it's in the US, Dunno about year.
Ven
Ven
spits
I hated it
Ven
Ven
> Security Assertion Markup Language (SAML) is an XML standard ...
kill me. now.
@StackedCrooked The high end is around US minimum wage.
OMG these leeches have to spend all their time to make minimum wage if they're lucky.
Xeo
Xeo
13:21
Robot knows what he's talking about, he was homeless for a while too!
@Xeo LOL! That's below the belt
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not exactly what I meant. I'm just saying if I'm giving them money that's what I'd like to see it being spent on. As opposed to contributing to their alcoholism (at least, the homeless people I pass by on a regular basis are regularly drunk).
But I giggled, guess that makes me an asshole after the fact
If you steal food and get caught will you have to appear for a judge?
@sehe Maybe I'll read those articles during lunch, but not now.
13:23
I wonder what he's gonna say.
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Worked out pretty well in the end for Aladdin
@Borgleader Then give food, but give it directly to them
Haven't seen/read Aladdin yet.
Xeo
Xeo
oO woah
@Xeo I do think I know what I'm talking about, but mostly because I actually speak with such people with some regularity.
13:24
@Ven Frer tu veux vomir? The highest donors I got while raising money were for KTO (french catholic TV)
@R.MartinhoFernandes The issue isn't about what they make with begging, but it's the begging money after various social support programs. It's not a nonexistent thing that beggars spend their money on cigarettes; I've walked past more than one smoking beggar here in Bristol.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, it wasn't meant in a negative way, just a little throwback.
whilst paying taxpayer money to demonise them is probably way over the top, I think I generally support the idea of not giving beggars money directly.
@Rerito That's kinda humiliating, not?
user1804599
@Ven XML is very nice.
user1804599
13:26
@Ven Assertion, not Assassination.
It's saying they cannot be trusted with money.
@StackedCrooked Begging is humiliating yes. Regardless what you give IMO
unique_ptr seems like a great hax
@StackedCrooked Oh, in that sense. Right valid point
@Rerito What if they're fed already and want money to spend the night?
Take them home.
13:28
@ReousaAsteron My second favourite addition to C++11 (the first is lamda expression)
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Hi honey I brought a friend"
:D
@milleniumbug Aren't lambda expressions a .net feature? O.o
4
So, giving to charity is bad coz they're leeches (see @Ven's point). Giving directly is bad as well
What's the best policy then?
Best policy? Don't do horrid generalisations.
@ReousaAsteron They're also a C++ feature, Java 8 feature, Python feature, Haskell feature, Lisp feature, ...
13:30
Did I tell you that I was homeless for 6 days some 10 days ago too - carrying food, tent, sleeping bag water etc etc and had to walk 105km? I had money but there was only 1 store to buy food during the whole six days! Then all those foxes, koalas, snakes, kangaroos and fairy wrens just wouldn't leave me alone! Wait, I meant mosquitoes ... those little suckers were always outside my tent, patiently waiting for me to step outside the net ...
how I love the wildness, you can have a billion dollars and no where to buy anything from & probably very few places to land a helicopter ...
17 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Shut up, telkitty.
@milleniumbug I never knew that... .-. It's good to know though, thank you :P
@Telkitty Hi!
@Telkitty Oh god, we're talking about human misery and you can't avoid bragging about yourself... Unbelievable
Did I tell you that I saw a fox one evening, and instantly I thought about my food was about to be stolen??
@ReousaAsteron hey
@StackedCrooked that's a very funny assessment given the situation
13:32
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ofc, I just did to make a point
I really hate those guys that come up to me and ask for 50 cents or something.
Best not to help them, lest they'd be embarrassed
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Yeah, why would a rapper hang out with you?
@Telkitty How's it going c:
13:32
@StackedCrooked In fact, it says you don't trust them with your money
And concerning @Ven's assertion that charities are "the worst piece of shit existing", thanks a lot, asshole.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, there are obvious abuses from charities
So what?
If they're so obvious, it should be easy to ignore those.
@slaphappy Oh sure, but imo that doesn't make them a worse solution to the problem (even though its only alleviating the symptom and not fixing the cause but thats another issue altogether)
@Telkitty You should have instantly thought of using your phone to share the <floof/>
13:34
charities can be tremendously inefficient and/or just outright scams- but I don't see what makes them unique in that regard.
@sehe Yeah.
@Rerito That doesn't make the generalization remotely fair
@Puppy Spot on
Xeo
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Generalisation<T> [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
6
@Rerito Bragging, hardly. There were 'supported versions' that would cost 3-5 times more, I was doing it the rough way. I did come across some of the world most venomous snakes face to face on that trip, you know ...
13:35
@R.MartinhoFernandes To be fair, I think he was speaking about one specific charity, rather than charities in general.
@sehe You're right, also I generalize saying charity while it's only a few individuals that may take their cut on the pie
@ReousaAsteron good, good, you?
@Telkitty Who's still bragging now?
Xeo
Xeo
Oh yeah, we're gonna need a in there in the near future too. Should we just add it or phase out then?
@Telkitty Pretty good, so close to finishing my dungeon crawler :D
13:36
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Small scale sociological experiments [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq] [remarkably-realistic]
@Xeo Oh dam, it did really work. It took so long to show up on my end I accidentally raced the topic edit :(
I had to refresh the page
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe :(
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Race conditions extraordinaire [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq] [remarkably-realistic]
5
I still had to refresh even in the "Edit room info" page.. :|
Charities always ask me for money. It's like they are a proxy for the beggars.
13:37
@Puppy Well handled
well
I gotta go pack
@sehe that's exactly what I thought! But the phone was inside my tent & I was outside, also I was exhausted by the 20+ km walk that day. By the time I got my phone to take pictures, the fox was gone ... plus evening, meaning low quality pictures ...
going home to see my parents over Easter
gonna be time to see what my new lappy is really capable of
Xeo
Xeo
ugh, don't remind me
I still can't decide if I should buy a laptop for the next two weeks or not
@Xeo I bought a laptop
@Xeo you should think about getting a laptop
@Xeo want to see pictures of my laptop?
13:40
Eeuw.
@Puppy I want to see one :)
(especially if you manage to frame Daisy with it)
@ReousaAsteron what happened to the artificial idiot you were programming?
well tough, it's a ... private experience for @Xeo
unless Daisy is involved somehow
There's a Unicode property named kMatthews.
lol
13:41
It's "The index of this character in Mathews’ Chinese-English Dictionary by Robert H. Mathews, Cambrige: Harvard University Press, 1975."
On top of sounding ridiculous to have this thing there, it is misspelled for historical reasons.
Xeo
Xeo
k, Matthews.
(why is nobody here called Mathew?!)
All the Han properties start with k for some reason.
lol
Xeo
Xeo
k, Solo.
Wow, there are actually 18 different dictionary index properties.
13:44
@Xeo nice
They keep all sorts of crazy stuff for Han characters. Fucking Chinese.
Each CJKV character has eighteen different dictionary indices, six different radical-stroke counts, nine different sources, seven different pronounciations, a varying number of stylistic variants, two different semantic variants, three different numeric values, and "dictionary-like data" which is introduced with "This category is something of a hodge-podge".
7
Hey, everyone. I have just built my first c++ program and it works. now i'm looking to refactor it to make the code easier to maintain. I'd like to know a good c++ way to handle user definable variables. Normal I would create a global data object and then I can access this wherever I need it. How should I go about this in c++? Just topics to read up on will be fine.
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes thanks for refering
For example I've seen this way stackoverflow.com/a/15222475/2894708 but I am just checking that this is an appropriate way to do it or if I should be using some other way to structure my code
user1804599
14:00
Self-XSS is funny.
@Telkitty The code is total shit, gonna recode the whole thing later. + I learned quite a few things doing this one, I shall use em to improve my artificial idiot~ github.com/Reousa/Training
user1804599
@jopfre Globally accessible data does usually not result in code that is easier to maintain, because you cannot tell what components do access the data. Pass the data around using function arguments instead.
I just found an answer on SO by @Puppy
nwp
nwp
@ReousaAsteron you could post that at codereview and hope for an answer, maybe after the rewrite
@ReousaAsteron did you downvote?
@nwp Yeah sometime when I'm completely done :P
@nwp It was helpful actually -cough- surprisingly -cough- o_o
nwp
nwp
14:05
I cannot imagine that, must be a glitch in the matrix
maybe it is another Puppy with some unicode character in there that looks the same as a regular character
Trying to figure out the best method to pass unique_ptr to functions
nwp
nwp
just do it
std::move to transfer ownership, .get() to not transfer ownership
Yeah I got those, but does it transfer ownership permenantly or till the end of scope
nwp
nwp
once transfered it is gone
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wow.
14:07
From what I understand .get() is sort of like passing by reference
I'm not sure whether the pointer stays floating after the scope goes off though
Don't wanna leak em
nwp
nwp
get() just gives you a raw pointer, the unique_ptr is still the owner
you can produce a dangling pointer if the function stores that raw pointer past the function call and the unique_ptr dies, but then you better fix the function
Mhmm, so if the function doesn't store the pointer beyond the scope, the pointer holder automatically dies and unique_ptr remains
you could start with struct somewhat_simpler { int i; }; to get a feeling of how these things work
somewhat_simpler my_thing {}; someone_somewhere(&my_thing.i); // is this safe? how can I tell?
@ReousaAsteron The pointer just contains the address. The address never stops existing :)
struct unique_ptr {
T* get() { return this->p; }
}
That's all there is to it.
14:26
@StackedCrooked Aha, thanks for the explanation :p
unique_ptr's billion dollar mistake is the naming of release().
"releasing the pointer" can mean two very different things.
and it's often confused
@StackedCrooked whathow
release() is obvious
Xeo
Xeo
"RELEASE... THE POINTER!"
We've had bugs where someones called ptr.release(); while he really wanted to use ptr.reset();
You release ptr's grasp on the memory
user1804599
14:29
shared_ptr is for communists.
Should have been detach().
Detach is for threads
Pointers don't live, threads do
unique_lock.release(); // same problem
user1804599
"forget"
unique_sth.let_it_gooooooo()
user1804599
14:45
XHTML was a delight. :(
user1804599
HTML5 y u no XML
Said no one ever
Ven
Ven
^
@R.MartinhoFernandes that is exactly the opposite of what I said.
I need a "PILE OF POO WITH ROLLING EYES" emoji
Oh, poor timing. Not for you, Ven.
Ven
Ven
lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes I just took the example of one very specific charity that was awful. never said "charities are full o' thieves"
14:54
Heh it's finally working
@Ven ok. I guess Rerito misunderstood it and I went from there.
15:10
@набиячлэвэлиь "Release the ownership" vs "Release the resource"
Two potential meanings
Ven
Ven
@R.MartinhoFernandes here+my next message. :(
"asshole"'s pretty unnice :(
anyone done SAML in C++ know of a library that automates parts of it?
user1804599
hahahaha XML IN C++
Ven
Ven
seen in some ocaml at work:
match List.hd response.Response.places with
| None -> None
| Some place ->
DO YOU EVEN LIFT BRO?
user406009
@Ven Eh, manually matching is more clear in some ways.
Ven
Ven
are you trying to ruin my lift joke? because no one in the world made it before me.
15:27
yeah right
user406009
@Ven Next thing I know, you are going to writing raps about monads and gonads.
user406009
There is a lot of material from functional programming, just waiting to be used.
user406009
All those unharvested rhymes.
Ven
Ven
egad, it's so sad.
user406009
@Ven I eagerly await your youtube video. /s
Ven
Ven
15:29
The youtube videos I post are not quite about rap :P.
> SimpleSAMLphp is an award-winning application
u fkin w0t?
@Ven Oh I lift (or rather I did in university)
user406009
@Borgleader Oh god, that quote on their main page.
user406009
Sets all my BS detectors reeling.
Ven
Ven
@Borgleader holy heck that looks awful
@Ven Actually it was great to work with :)
15:40
> realize the developer efficiency
REALIZE IT
@Lalaland ...from all those FaPping rappers.
@EtiennedeMartel How about: "I realize that IT is an excessively general abbreviation"?
Ven
Ven
TIL "ThePhD" stands for "ThePhantomDerpstorm"
Ven
Ven
actual truth
ThePhantomDerpstorm, in cinemas starting 6-6-666!
I like the name
It's so overderping.
I suck at puns.
user1804599
15:48
@Ven how to implement HM help
user1804599
I have never succeeded in doing that.
user1804599
It is so difficult.
user1804599
There are no readable implementations of it that I could find, and papers are incomprehensible.
Ven
Ven
it's in LiveScript :).
no loungesome XML C++ lib? :[
pugixml
Ven
Ven
15:50
oh, it does xpath
dat 12k lines .cpp file.
user1804599
@Ven And incomprehensible; what is non-generic? What is
Ven
Ven
@Zoidberg no fucking idea. never read it
user1804599
@Ven XPath is so nice!
user1804599
user1804599
@Ven I'll just post a comment?
15:57
@ReousaAsteron Your attempts at puns are just fucking derping over.
nwp
nwp
I posted an SO link in twitch chat and a moment later I got the announcer badge saying 25 unique IPs clicked on that link

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