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00:08
I suppose uncompiled code contains more information that provides optimization opportunities than the compiled assembly.
@StackedCrooked Not to mention assembly language carrying the implicit statement that "I really know what I'm doing, and want exactly these instructions, precisely as written."
And in the end Intel will decode into smaller instructions and massively reorder it and stuff :)
So many levels of optimization.
@JerryCoffin But what if I decompile it and recompile again?
Ok, I suppose no magic there. Not like decompilation can restore lost information.
@StackedCrooked Well, less complex instructions, anyway. Microcode instructions are often quite large (on the order of hundreds of bits is pretty common).
Cool, I didn't know that.
@StackedCrooked Basically, you typically have some multiplexers in the ALU, and the microcode instruction has all the bits for the inputs to those multiplexers (or looking at it a little differently, it's at least vaguely similar to the bit-stream for programming an FPGA).
00:22
My first step towards success. github.com/Reousa/Training
> TicTacToe. --> Very messy code
It's shit to be honest
TicTacToe code should not be messy.
I'm planning on recoding it once done with this one
Messy code is the first sign of poor quality.
Fix that first.
00:24
Should I remove it until then? D:
@JerryCoffin At least you don't need to deal with the register allocation.
@ReousaAsteron No.
You shouldn't remove it just because one person on the internet criticised it :)
Aye captain~
I would've removed it because it hurt someone's eyes is all :P
Btw, ~TicTacToe() is not exactly the right place to announce the winnner.
@Mysticial True, but it's rarely (in my experience, anyway) much of a consideration. Back in the 16-bit x86 days, it was a real problem because the uses of specific registers were so limited. Mostly quit being an issue as of the 386 though.
00:28
You shouldn't have a destructor anyway, since you're not managing any resources.
With intrinsic programming, register allocation becomes as simple as, "spill or no spill".
@StackedCrooked Mhmmm, I should probably re-plan it all on paper, never done it for tictactoe
@Mysticial With R0...Rn, (or XMM0...XMMn, YMM0...YMMn, etc.) it's pretty much the same.
@JerryCoffin Almost. If you don't assign the register numbers correctly the first time, you'll get a lot of reg-reg moves. So you'll need to make a second pass.
void TicTacToe::pvpTurn(bool isInvalid) {
    std::cout << "Enter the number you'd like to play: ";
    if(isInvalid) std::cout << "Invalid input.\n";
^ How does this make sense?
lol :D
00:32
@StackedCrooked That one's really really messy, I'd recommend moving on to DungeonCrawl until I fix it :P
@ReousaAsteron Start by removing all std::couts from the class. TicTacToe should only deal with the board state. It should not talk.
btw, I just did a 2-way memory upgrade to get my AMD box up to 32GB.
Eager to see what 2400 MHz DDR3 looks like on that Haswell box.
@Mysticial Oh, if you try hard enough, I suppose you can screw things up pretty badly, but at least IME, it's rarely much of a problem.
@StackedCrooked Yeah, I've read that somewhere on SO the other day
00:35
@Mysticial "2-way"? Oh, you mean: buy new memory, add it to fast box, move existing memory from fast box to slower box?
@JerryCoffin Yeah
And my friend from college will inherit the memory from the slower box.
@Mysticial Recycling at its best! :-)
My Haswell box had 32 GB @ 1866.
My AMD box had 16 GB @ 1333.
Add in 32 GB @ 2400 MHz and shift it all down one slot.
The catch right now is that the AMD box doesn't support the XMP that the 1866 memory has. But it is certified to take that memory.
So I'm stress-testing a manual setting of the memory at 1866 MHz.
@ReousaAsteron Try to make small self-contained components that do one thing specifically. They should not have any knowledge about the application they are part of. Then you compose your application from those components.
The overclock on the Haswell box didn't reset with the new memory. I'm not sure the mobo even realized it was new memory.
The old OC settings seem to still be stable.
So I'll stick with that.
00:39
How important do is CPU clock speed today? Recent i7 can go up to 4Ghz. But I don't see those numbers on the Xeon models.. (2.6 Ghz is still common there.)
AMD box looks stable with memory at 1866 MHz. But the timings are still way off. I'll need to tighten those down.
@StackedCrooked Xeons are largely trading clock speed for more cores (usually a win on the kinds of loads most servers deal with).
Hm, yeah that makes sense.
@StackedCrooked Yas, I've done that for the second one, except for printGrid(). Not sure how im gonna handle it yet but it's on my to-do list :D
does gcc 6 have any abi breakages
or can I just reuse my gcc 5 compiled shit
00:44
@StackedCrooked Thanks for taking a look btw c:
Ooh... I just realized that the AMD didn't go unstable the moment I take it off auto settings. I used to do that - which prevent me from overclocking it.
@ReousaAsteron No problem.
Maybe I can finally OC that box now - 2 and half years after I built it.
@Mysticial Don't I recall its automatic overclocking settings working, and it was just manual that was a problem?
I never do automatic overclocking.
They tend to choose dangerous settings - especially for the stuff that I do on the chips.
00:48
@Mysticial Fair enough.
When you take BIOS off auto settings, it's not supposed to have any effect. But it did on that box, and that destabilized the memory on it.
But not with this new memory taken from my Haswell box.
@Mysticial Which sort of sounds like it's probably been handicapped by its memory all this time.
Well, I'm off to bed now
The memory in that AMD box was pretty old. Back from 2011 from that Sandy Bridge box that I burned.
Have a good night everybody!
00:50
night
@ReousaAsteron Good night.
And fix your code :P
Will do :D
@Rapptz The only non-problematic way to reuse compiled code is via ccache :)
@ReousaAsteron G'night.
@StackedCrooked "ccache"? Is that some variation of instruction cache or trace cache?
ccache is a software development tool that caches the output of C/C++ compilation so that the next time, the same compilation can be avoided and the results can be taken from the cache. This can greatly speed up recompiling time. The detection is done by hashing different kinds of information that should be unique for the compilation and then using the hash sum to identify the cached output. Ccache is licensed under the GNU General Public License. == See also == distcc Audited Objects == References == == External links == Official website...
I usually enable it by making a script ~/bin/g++ that contains: ccache /usr/bin/g++ "$@"
00:55
@StackedCrooked Hmm...in that case, I'd say instruction cache and trace cache are at least two other methods (though they're not at all what you were thinking of, and irrelevant to the question at hand).
lol
It doesn't cache the linker command though. That one remains slow.
Also when I google menagerie I get
@StackedCrooked How is that different from make?
ccache caches the compiler output
make doesn't afaik
@StackedCrooked but the compiler output is the o files?
Yes, this is cached.
01:04
@StackedCrooked So, make.
make generates compile commands
No, that is a quite unfair description of make.
Well. Sorry.
I just wanted to point out that it is different from ccache.
It's not related at all actually.
Make tracks dependencies.
Oh damn... 2% increase in speed from 1866 -> 2400 memory.
That's more than I expected.
@StackedCrooked Indeed. I write make publish stuff.tex when I want to throw a tex -> pdf to a particular website.
01:11
@CaptainGiraffe Make has a problem with distributed builds--it depends solely on time stamps, but those might not be perfectly consistent across a network (e.g., if their clocks disagree by even a few seconds, if I save a file one one machine, and immediately compile it on another the object file might end up with an earlier time stamp than the source file. A hash will see that the file hasn't changed though.
@JerryCoffin Thanks Jerry. That is helpful.
If you delete the compiled code then Make has to rebuild. Ccache manages its own copies in ~/.ccache.
So you can delete your source folder. Check it out again from vcs and rebuild will be super quick.
Of course, if you change your compiler then ccache will know and won't use the cache.
@StackedCrooked If you change your compiler? sounds like if you change your DB. It's not going to happen.
@CaptainGiraffe Note: that's only one scenario where it helps. There are others. At work we use a cache, on a shared project, so if I build the project, those cached object files can just be copied to my co-worker's machine when he does a build.
@JerryCoffin What system are you using?
01:16
Oo woah, they changed the display in the health app on iOS ... it looks totally different, but displays essentially the same info ...
@CaptainGiraffe Good question. That project uses scons for building, so it may be something built into scons, but I'm not sure (it prints out messages saying it's retrieving object files from cache, but I do my best to stay as far away from the internals of the build system as I can).
@JerryCoffin I'm just a lowly educator. I find build systems and in-house tools interesting. I rarely get to see any sophistication in the regular tools, ant, gradle, and what have you.
A quick check indicates that scons has it (a shared cache) built in.
The last time I saw a "state of the art" demo was with maven. It was painfully complex and tool dependent.
@CaptainGiraffe if you were a lowly educator, what would that make of your students :'(
01:23
@Telkitty I have a 100% record of providing interesting jobs for all interested. I need to learn more though. My biggest problem is where to invest my learning.
There are three companies in my city doing different neat stuff. The personnel in these three companies are 40-65% my students. I need to keep these percentages where they are.
01:45
@StackedCrooked hey, did you watch any good talks lately?
@CaptainGiraffe imagine that one day working for one of your students :p
02:05
@Telkitty =) I have gotten an offer for 1kEuros/month more than I do now from a previous student.
that's not enough? :p
Didn't know you love you current job this much :')
02:25
That I do.
02:46
@Borgleader Even though David Heinemeier Hansson isn't very popular, this talk by him was excellent:
I've should watch it a 3rd time :)
03:39
Can I ask a question here?
Just read ze rules.
Nvm
03:52
Hey
04:48
oh dear, I think we’re at risk of people adding to their questions because, well, they have a question about C++ notions
this one used to have it before I removed it
thanks Bjarne
05:22
@StackedCrooked I have to agree. His basic thesis isn't exactly new, but it bears repeating nonetheless.
what’s a turn of phrase for introducing an example-only name? e.g. "array constants are consistently defined as follows (e.g. for an assumed foo constant): - foo lives in namespace constant …"
@LucDanton If I were writing a book, I'd start with a note in the preface about metasyntactic variables, and then use them where needed. For a post (or something similar) you can probably just take for granted that people should know that foo bar, baz, etc., are metasyntactic variables, and be done with it.
Hi everyone,
anybody know any book on C++11/14 template metaprogramming?
4265
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are published every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a well-written...

mmmh if we have variables and constants, then by that same token do we have variable templates and… constant templates?
short for 'constant variable template' of course
05:31
@LucDanton We have constantly varying templates and intermittently varying templates.
Vim doesn’t spellcheck 'Niebler'
Does anyone ever write your code in one line?
is it faster?
2
05:48
@GettingNifty Yes. Each line in C++ causes a sequence point, which can produce slower code.
what about java?
@GettingNifty Runs slowly regardless of how you write it.
@GettingNifty Java's not a fast language, but works fine if you write fast code. Use better algorithms if your code is slow ^^;
C++ is a pretty fast language, but you pay for it by having a lot more implementation considerations
You know technically it's not the language that is fast
05:58
So if I have OpenGL bindings in OpenGL, doesn't everything execute as binary? I've never really compared the two side by side.
A language doesn't usually have speed associated with it
Does inline have to be one line only </troll>
True, but I don't like technicalities because they usually bring up topics I was intentionally glossing over
@JNat Oh boy. What happened?
Did I miss drama?
So does C++ have sdk's per say? What if I want to make a window?
06:00
You first buy glass...
@Shoe Technically true--but Java places some requirements that make a really fast implementation much more difficult.
@GettingNifty Depends on the platform you're targetting. I prefer Qt
@JerryCoffin The topic of speed is generally weird. Especially when talked about in absolutes like "C++ is a pretty fast language"
In some cases a Java program might run faster than an equivalent C++ program and so on.
@Shoe Programming is weird. So many abstractions that there aren't really absolutes in the first place
Then you might also want to consider speed of development vs efficiency of the program; or how easy it is to debug a program in said language with said tools.
So many variables
06:05
But in my experience, the first source of slow-downs isn't usually the language; it's the algorithm and logic you've messed up. Once you have an equivalent algorithm in each language, you can compare 'speed', but it's generally better to be efficient in the first place
gotta go fast
Well after I compiled my last jar in maven, I don't see any speed problems, lol
But I could see how poor code could slow things down quickly
I upgraded my ram at first..
Yeah, downloading more RAM usually fixes the issue
@GettingNifty Bogosort is the most frequently used example of how "It's you, not the language"
what is omega
06:11
omegle
omeletga
I've got so many half-finished projects it's not funny. I generally get bored before I finish anything, unless it's a school or work assignment. Maybe I should get a shock collar to motivate myself to finish stuff?
Coffee :( beer
someone to talk to while instead of studying jsp like i meant to i'm trying to exploit music sites
Exploit music sites?
for old forgotten hits
sounds fun, but it's actually more like listening to every song you see
06:22
Ah, nice! Any in particular?
u wanna know the trick or you wanna see the treasure
i use archive.org to look through old websites that ran winamp like shoutcast
Haha, tough one. The trick is tempting, but the treasure is interesting. Share whichever
best of which now I believe to be last.fm/tag/your favorite band/tracks
okay, so exploiting the fact that the old sites were cached and literally gave the file with no protection?
well i have about 2,000 songs i found throught the last ...10 years?
trying to get the link
and youtube channels are constantly being deleted etc. so my playlist loses songs, and i don't know which ones, so it's a never ending thing
06:29
If you want, there are ways to just convert youtube->audio file. You can also write a program that streams the video into data, then converts into your preferred format
Good for 'archival' ^^;
Anyways, I'mma check out some of those songs and see if I find a new passion
I usually use mpeg streamclip to splice the sound file out of it
but i was planning on being a dj years ago, and dj's can be checked out for copyright stuff like that
they will shut down the whole bar
Fair point
i just found that out a few years ago, but I honestly just felt like i had a lot of stolen music already
I live in one of the only countries where piracy is acceptable by law, (provided you keep it to yourself and don't profit from it). I think the problem is that music and media is really hard to keep protected; pirated books weren't historically uncommon
oh and netvideo hunter to download the youtube video
firefox add on
06:36
grooves to Finally I don't hear this one often, but it's not bad. Never noticed the lyrics until now
gta 5 used like 10 of the songs i found
or we broke even with rhythm of the night
just refound one of them... weird
The one thing that bothers me about music as a hobby is that people fiercely defend/broadcast their preferences, despite the fact that it's one of the most transient things and it doesn't matter much which songs you furnish your life with. Not an original idea, but it lingers on my mind. GTA V's soundtrack must've been a pleasant surprise for you?
Oh yeah, but the copyright is held with the original maker
I think
unless they die for instance tupacs mom sold her rights to eminem or some of them for a project
06:51
@GettingNifty Here's one that I enjoy, but I have no clue what they're singing >.<
it's probably important
Anyways, it's getting late and I'm getting a bit contemplative, so I'm going to get some sleep. See you another time :D
i have a quick question.
a 64 char randomly generated ssh passphrase is secure?
have a good night
07:11
@MotokoKusanagi is sex secure?
The answer to your question and the question above is pretty much the same
how helpful
@MotokoKusanagi you mean you generated a random password of length 64?
07:49
@Zoidberg damn
O.O
@Aaron3468 oldie :)
@Shoe Nothing, I think. Why do you ask?
i KNOW it used to be illegal to have 64 bit encryption because the fbi could only crack 46
user1804599
08:11
Hello.
We should start an open sourced encryption community where trying to crack the encryption just becomes endlessly exhaustive.
or would that defeat the purpose
probably already something like that
yep security.stackexchange.com
user1804599
08:27
Is there a hypernym for "discount" and "addition"?
user1804599
I want to store discounts and disposal fees in the same database table.
user1804599
"charge" I think
I didn't understand the question...
That's not like me
MOP
method of payment?
Ven
Ven
Ahoy.
user1804599
Howdy.
Ven
Ven
08:36
well, u?
user1804599
Fun fact: because of all the metadata, the javascript community downloads "isarray" in the excess of 100GB a month from npm. For a one liner
Ven
Ven
shims!1
user1804599
Why does it do {}.toString.call(x) and not x instanceof Array?
Ven
Ven
frames.
user1804599
Oh ok.
Ven
Ven
08:39
your "Array" and their "Array" might be different
user1804599
user1804599
Great job laying out lines, Visio.
user1804599
Three-column primary keys. :(
08:57
what is that
user1804599
CHECK (amount IS NULL) <> (factor IS NULL)
user1804599
XOR ftw
@StackedCrooked thanks
Ven
Ven
@jaggedSpire wherefore art thou not sending floofs anymore? :'(((
user1804599
Wait, doesn't SQL have a logical XOR operator with the correct precedence?
user1804599
09:12
oh it doesn't :(
Ven
Ven
I just commited
"Make _availableConnectors great again"
Sup m8s
user1804599
Willem-Alexander looks like Donald Trump from a distance.
user1804599
But less fat.
I recently found out facebook removes the exif viewer data
but law enforcement still has access to it
gps coordinates
I actually meant to make that memory efficiency proposal
09:33
@Zoidberg and less rich
@GettingNifty wait what. I find that very interesting. Do you have a source for this claim?
@Zoidberg three-part or compound. "Three-column" is for pre-schoolers :)
user1804599
@sehe compound
user1804599
> PRIMARY KEY (material_supplier_id, material_id, start_date)
(composite, now that I think of it)
user1804599
elsewhere:
user1804599
FOREIGN KEY (material_supplier_id) REFERENCES material_supplier_material_prices(material_supplier_id) ON DELETE CASCADE,
FOREIGN KEY (material_id) REFERENCES material_supplier_material_prices(material_id) ON DELETE CASCADE,
FOREIGN KEY (start_date) REFERENCES material_supplier_material_prices(start_date) ON DELETE CASCADE,
09:39
@sehe try it
Unable to extract some or all of the EXIF data, which may have been removed from the image file.
Am I the only one who thinks the aircraft to be very ... vulgar
Ven
Ven
no, that's why the internet talked a lot about it when the images got released
#
# A fatal error has been detected by the Java Runtime Environment:
#
#  SIGSEGV (0xb) at pc=0x000000011ff1f2c3, pid=90567, tid=52231
#
# JRE version: Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (8.0_65-b17) (build 1.8.0_65-b17)
# Java VM: Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (25.65-b01 mixed mode bsd-amd64 compressed oops)
# Problematic frame:
# C  [libawt_lwawt.dylib+0x1b2c3]  OGLSD_SetScratchSurface+0x49
#
# Failed to write core dump. Core dumps have been disabled. To enable core dumping, try "ulimit -c unlimited" before starting Java again
You know your day is gonna suck when the JVM SIGSEGVs on you in the morning.
user1804599
lol JVM segfault
user1804599
in AWT
david letterman looks like shit... makeup artists do so much magic on tv
09:52
@GettingNifty How do I "try it"? I'm not (with) a law-enforcement institution, neither do I have the relevant contact at facebook.
Ven
Ven
@Zoidberg :'(((((
you can use exif viewers
best way it to save the image and use one online, seems to get more information
@GettingNifty Yeah that's a feature on shared Google photos too (Google Photo, enable the privacy setting in the preferences)
my firefox add on is not showing me anything
@GettingNifty Why are you evading my point. My question is obviously about your claim. Not the observation
09:54
@Ven You know your day is gonna suck when it involves using the JVM
33 mins ago, by GettingNifty
but law enforcement still has access to it
Note that I replied to this message
Well that was a hypothesis... based on observation.
@GettingNifty Which one, please?
Ven
Ven
@Puppy true. but it's only to use jmeter...
There's also google images.. and probably ways to do it without the coordinates
but relative location
and the gps coordinates aren't saved unless the phone has a gps picture tagging feature
plus you have the image editor information etc. , probably type of computer used to edit it.. i mean come on girls
software versions... u can find someone address on white pages
and i know how to go door to door, i call it, hurdling
and i can get in your living room and sell magazines
i can't remember the website but there's one that actually exploited this girls home address
she'd probably never been on it before, one of those generic social security tracking tools
10:02
@sehe lol sehe
are you really not-ignoring this troll
you don't know me
fuck you
yeah ok
Ven
Ven
oh hey andy
tryin to make me out to look like a bad person
i'm out... i have been up too late and i have tow ork in a hour
I was actually looking out for someone
@JNat Usually when a smurf visits the Lounge it's on official business :O
10:16
don't be a racist, blue doesn't imply smurf >_<
I told them about the exif data before hand
My close friends disowned me, 6 hours, no reply
@GettingNifty I do, tyvm
@GettingNifty you told who? Law enforcement? I'm not following
that's the desired effect
10:33
> // Get the idDistribution corrsepoonding to oiuyr Process
hi.
@slaphappy Is that from work codebase?
is it above the declaration of that mutex
wouldn't surprise me
also oiuyr is quite a spectacular typo
@Rerito what do you think?
I think it is
@AndyProwl I think the guy who wrote that doesn't have fingers
I think he types with his face
10:37
Distribution and Process as in stochastic shit?
as in, something completely unrelated :P
@slaphappy maybe that's what he needs boost::mutex for. Avoiding face conditions
k, sorry, I'm out
@AndyProwl don't come back!
@GettingNifty If you make it sound any more stalky, I'm kicking you.
GettingKicky
10:41
lol
he deserves some Puppy I tell you
SOMEBODY CALL FOR AN EXTERMINATOR?
@Borgleader So it's tic-tac-toe now?
tic-tac-toe is a 2 player game
Yes, but it has three syllables.
lol
10:44
@AndyProwl lol
Ven
Ven
If I want to "shim" virtual template variadics, would it be a good solution to go from void call(a, b, Args&&... args) to
VariadicFn call(a, b);
class VariadicFn {
  template<class ...Args>
  operator(Args&&... args);
}
@slaphappy I'll git blame my way to see who the newblets are then
@Rerito not newblets methinks
more like dinosaurs
@Ven how does that help with shimming (btw your mental C++ compiler needs tuning)
Ven
Ven
@LucDanton it's pseudo-mental-c++ code
@LucDanton well, i can't have a virtual template variadic function. but i can have a virtual one which returns VariadicFn
10:53
@Ven nah it’s really, really mental
@Ven lol call looks like a variable definition
most vexing mental code
@Ven No, that's bad, wrong, won't help you, and what you want is fundamentally impossible. HTH
@Ven the fact that the parameters ahead of the pack are handled ahead of time is suspicious (multi-dispatch/visitation?)—if they’re not 'special' in any form then it would make more sense to handle just the same as the others
at which point that means you’re really having call return some sort of std::function<Sig>, at which you’re going to object that I’m missing the point and that different overriders are going to handle the variadic arguments differently
which is when you should think deeply about what you just said and what call ought to be returning
@Puppy Efficiently shattering hopes since 2010
diagnostic: not enough types
@Ven are you injecting types into your body right now? stop waiting, you could be in a dangerous withdrawal stage
yeah
seems to me like he's thinking about std::function but he wants the Sig to be a template, which is completely impossible.
11:07
Not completely, but would require a completely different way of compiling shit together.
well, it's completely impossible in C++.
In the current C++, yes, that we do agree upon.
@AndyProwl I think so too
@AndyProwl that's why Linus calls them futexes
@R.MartinhoFernandes or snap-crackle-pop wtv floats your boat.
11:24
Afternoon!
@sehe reading about futexes
wishing I understand
OTOH it's morally Friday
I'm justified
user1804599
11:43
Paracetamol is disgusting.
11:54
I think you're supposed to swallow them whole, not chew them
depends on the exact AMP you're using
@LucDanton I have no idea what the conversation is about but I do agree with this
@AndyProwl Awww yes, 4 day weekend in my case. Cant wait for the day to be over.
:thumbsup:
8-day weekend here

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