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9:00 PM
@sehe It indeed seems like an even better hack than pointers
Might just start using that
 
user1804599
Hack is a proper PHP.
 
user1804599
TYPES OMG
 
user1804599
😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
 
@Zoidberg Some (not so close) relative gave me a php job and offered help with me learning it (if I get stuck) because he has no time c:
So basically I'm the mini-him
 
@Zoidberg That exists?
or to put it another way, isn't "proper PHP" an oxymoron by definition?
 
user1804599
Learn Hack while you're at it.
 
user1804599
With the existence of Hack, writing PHP code isn't worth it.
 
@Zoidberg I don't think he's using that, gonna have to follow his current project
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Yes.
 
user1804599
RIP
 
user1804599
9:11 PM
Lol dynamic typing
 
@набиячлэвэлиь That's pretty funny, but it's also kinda interesting.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь TRWTF is the 10 line function as a package dependency
lol js community
 
@EtiennedeMartel Hawly shet
 And that's how JavaScript app development works in 2016. ®
 
Ven
that's stupid a comment to say
 
user1804599
Hi Ven.
 
9:18 PM
It's in the article, pretty sarcasmic they are
And hello c:
 
Ven
scala could pull their lib jars and then no one could compile it anymore
hey @Zoidberg
 
user1804599
I don't think you can do that on Sonatype.
 
user1804599
@Ven You cannot delete releases from Maven Central.
 
Ven
you can't
 
user1804599
There is no such facility.
 
user1804599
9:21 PM
You have to contact Sonatype, and they won't just do that.
 
Ven
you don't know that
here, npm ununpublished a package
but hey, that guy had released code under the WTFPL license. Otherwise he could've sued NPM.
Would've been really fun!!
 
well yeah
 
user1804599
You even have to contact to get your stuff published in the first place (which is good; npm and PyPI and Packagist should do that too).
 
I think that since he released his code under WTFPL, NPM were well within their rights to un-un-publish
 
user1804599
It's very controlled.
 
Ven
9:23 PM
they were
he allowed them to do so, so of course they did it
 
user1804599
CPAN is reasonable.
 
user1804599
But it's per-account, not per-package.
 
user1804599
@Ven most FOSS licenses allow redistribution.
 
Ven
CPAN has signed packages
 
user1804599
And most FOSS licenses license everyone, which includes the npm mods, to do so.
 
user1804599
And if the software wasn't licensed in a way that didn't allow redistribution then it wouldn't have been used that much in the first place.
 
user1804599
Releases should not be deletable. If they are then that is a functional bug in the distribution software.
 
9:40 PM
I just found out you can manually examine values all over the program by typing their name in the debugger O___O
 
my little program: debuggers are magic
 
Good one :D
My little punny
 
@ReousaAsteron textual debuggers so primitive
 
@Ven is scala routinely deployed dynamically refetching the jars over the internet?
 
Ven
9:44 PM
@sehe yeah. it's been a big issue in the past, because some very-used minecraft mod used scala, and that was a HUGE bandwidth issue for the sonatype guys
so they put the scala jars on their slow servers ;D
 
:D
smart solution
 
sbi
Good evening.
 
user1804599
Maven is a delight.
 
user1804599
I recently learned about XML namespaces. XML is really amazing.
 
user1804599
It's like people who designed it were actually competent software developers.
 
9:49 PM
yeah right
 
user1804599
All this "classical" stuff is so nice.
 
sbi
Have you been at work today, @melak47?
 
yeah.
 
sbi
Is the atmosphere still like on Dec, 23rd?
 
user1804599
Not sure what the right word is. Pre-Rails, perhaps?
 
9:51 PM
@sbi it was a bit empty indeed
 
user1804599
IIRC Rails was the thing that made mindless programming immensely popular.
 
Do any of you think that library implementers will start shipping an experimental Ranges TS once Niebler gets one more formalized?
 
sbi
@melak47 I bet. I will come in tomorrow afternoon to participate in the meeting.
 
@sbi The first point on the agenda doesn't inspire much hope for good news.
 
sbi
@melak47 Nope. I have been expecting for months, but it's probably not a good sign that he leaves right after this board meeting.
 
9:57 PM
@Zoidberg lol
Actually, that started with Perl. Probably earlier. Tcl/tk?
Zsh. If you will
 
sbi
This looks like a rather interesting YouTube channel. The guy hasn't posted much so far, but it's promising. :)
 
user1804599
@sehe I mean even more popularity.
 
I actually kinda like to listen to atmospheric black metal when I'm a bit high.
 
user1804599
As in, many major companies are doing it now.
 
@sbi I like the music.
 
sbi
10:00 PM
@ReousaAsteron I skipped over the intro even when I watched his very first video, so I can't comment on that.
Oh no, what have I done. Everybody's gone watching the hydraulic press and the room is dead.
 
Meh. Does anyone know if MS' C++/CX has something like extern "C++" to turn off the bullshit language extensions so you can use standard compliant C++ libraries without having to hide it in a static library? :/
 
@набиячлэвэлиь I don't think that interacts with the C++/CX extensions, just the "regular" extensions
 
I'm not sure if you can turn those off in a "universal" app thing. bah.
well, not my problem :)
 
Ven
10:14 PM
@Zoidberg implying major companies didn't do perl -_-"
 
user1804599
> Naar de dokter gaan, zeggen dat je een geslachtsziekte hebt, en als 'ie dan bukt om te kijken recht in z'n gezicht pissen zeg HEERLIJK.
 
@sehe trek
 
faked, but still rekt
 
sbi
@sehe Nah, don't bother. French is all Greek to me anyway.
 
You did a good job, then
 
sbi
10:18 PM
I like you already.
 
Toying with the idea of combining conditions. Kinda hard to make it work in practice though.
But it looks so neat.
 
sbi
@Ven You know, I didn't really drag im into this by his hair, so I do not feel responsible. But, yeah, I still feel bad about it. That's why I tried to land him an interview with some other company.
Mar 17 at 11:30, by Tim
You people are so strange!
ha!
 
@StackedCrooked I, for one, welcome our new operator overlords.
6
 
:D That's gonna be a keeper
 
Oh, it might require operator overloading. Not sure if implicit conversion to int will kick in automatically.
 
user1804599
10:22 PM
@StackedCrooked i use tuples but lol C++ requiring ICEs as cases
 
sbi
@sehe What's "HT" stand for, BTW? I never cracked that one.
 
@Zoidberg ICE? "Internal Compiler Error" doesn't seem to fit
 
huge thanks seems to work
 
Integral Constant Expression?
 
@melak47 Yes.
 
10:24 PM
@DougLuce what makes you say ABI is not it. Because that's 100% it. Use portable serialization if you need it. — sehe 10 secs ago
 
When you spend 30 minutes looking for the typo in your code.
 
@sbi Hat tip
@Puppy Context is likely twitter
 
sbi
@sehe Ah. Thanks!
 
@ReousaAsteron I hate those weeks :)
 
@sehe I can't believe it was that stupid lol
 
10:28 PM
user image
7
some good arguments there
 
sbi
Speaking of operator overlording: I am not sure what to think about this (relatively) recent addition to the operator overloading FAQ. It is meant as an answer to a specific question which got closed as a dupe of the FAQ.
What do you think? Should this stay?
 
user1804599
@melak47 tes
 
@sbi No.
 
@Borgleader Yeah except Mexico's quality of life is wanting
Also, could people stop using these idiotic pictures of Trump in their memes, it's not like that's gonna support your argument, just gives the impression that you hate him as an individual
 
we do hate him as an individual
 
10:34 PM
@Puppy :D
 
@Puppy I know, he's an asshole, but we have to make sure that his voters realize that it is his actual ideas that are a problem
 
if you don't hate Trump as an individual, you've got a problem
 
@sbi I feel like that answer fits better with the original question. Q: "Why does X not work?" A: "Here's why, and see the FAQ for how to do it right". But I'm not an authority on SO etiquette.
 
sbi
@melak47 Of course, but he cannot answer the original one, because it's been closed.
 
10:37 PM
@EvgenyPanasyuk Intellisense has no back-end (but it does use the EDG front-end).
 
@JohanLarsson Crazy, I guessed the library's purpose from its title
 
scary
 
@JerryCoffin Gotta make you realize how bad a situation you're in when you're a compiler vendor and you have to pay somebody else for another implementation
 
@sbi The way I see it, only the "Could someone show me an example prototype for this function for inserting a shape into an ostream object?" part is already answered by the FAQ. That could be removed, the question reopened and the answer put there. Theoretically.
 
@Puppy And it's in the order of magnitude of 100'000$
 
sbi
10:38 PM
@Columbo Why? An asshole's ideas will always be problematic. But asshole( voter)s will never understand anyway.
 
@sbi First off, an asshole's ideas are not always problematic. I don't even see where you get that from. E.g. I'm an asshole, but I got some nice ideas.
 
that is.. obviously not an admissible argument.
 
@Puppy It's a counterexample to an absolute statement and therefore perfectly fine an argument.
 
sbi
@melak47 Yeah, but why have an FAQ then? The guy wanted an answer to a specific problem, and was pointed to an exhaustive piece of text covering the whole subject. Rather than encouraging to study, this belated "answer" basically says "don't worry about the theoretical background, don't bother to understand your problem, here's a working solution".
 
@Puppy From what I've heard, I'd guess it's as much about different parts of MS hating each other's guts as anything else.
 
10:41 PM
well, it's not a counterexample at all
 
Yeah no it is
 
since you're a priori assuming that everybody agrees that you have nice ideas.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin I thought they changed that back to their own compiler a few versions back?
 
you're assuming that "problematic" means "problematic by some person's perception", which is not what I interpret that as
 
@sbi Not that I know of, but it's always possible.
 
sbi
10:42 PM
@Columbo See, this is a rather problematic idea already, and thus underlining my argument.
@Columbo But that's the correct interpretation.
Of course, by "some person" I refer to "anyone not a dumb person".
 
This also strongly depends on what you consider to be an asshole. Socially incompetent presidents aren't necessarily incompetent. In Trump's case, we have an unfortunate combination of both
 
@Columbo That meaning, whilst rendering the statement as literally true, also makes it fairly irrelevant, since I imagine that for pretty much any idea, some person will find it problematic.
 
@JohanLarsson is-of-legal-age depends on it
 
@sbi Well, then I define a dumb person as one that disagrees with my views and opinions and ideas.
 
sbi
10:45 PM
@Columbo See, there's another of your ideas that's problematic.
 
@sbi You're so dumb, you know that
 
@sbi If the inability for this particular operator to be overloaded as a member function is really a FAQ, then I think it should be handled by marking a question specifically about that subject as a FAQ. The obviously nominee (obvious to me, anyway) would be: stackoverflow.com/q/9814345/179910 (and the other should have been closed as a dupe of this, which specifically covers the same subject matter).
 
sbi
@Columbo Trump is dumb, greedy, ruthless, misogynistic, racist, sexist and a lot of other things each one of which would ruin someone's reputation all by itself. IOW, he is an asshole.
 
@sbi Ok, you're right the FAQ actually does go into nice detail about the member/nonmember business. Dunno if a "TL;DR give example pls" answer is of value in the FAQ or on the dupe-closed question
 
@sbi Wait, wait, wait. Those are sufficient but not necessary conditions (at least according to fairly reasonable definitions of assholes).
 
user1804599
10:47 PM
> In December 2011, two more extremely long pieces of music were released by the band. 286: 0 and 287: n, the first lasting over twenty-nine million hours, and the latter lasting more than eighty-seven trillion hours.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin This is covered here, though.
 
And calling Trump "dumb" (as in stupid) is pretty far-fetched.
 
sbi
@melak47 Exactly my concern. I am not sure, though.
 
@Columbo Since when? The guy can't seem to put two thoughts together.
I can't name a single intelligent thing he has ever said or done.
it's just a massive vomit of idiocy coming from him at all times
 
Is there a way to create anchors/headings in makrdown on SO that you can link to?
 
10:50 PM
@Puppy He has addressed trading, FWIW.
 
@Columbo it's not
 
@Puppy Agreeable
 
what do you mean, "addressed trading"?
 
@Columbo ahahahahahahahahaha
 
user1804599
@melak47 <a> tag with id attribute
 
10:50 PM
@sehe :D
 
sbi
@Columbo As I see it, there's two possibilities: 1 He believes the bullshit he says. Then he's dumb. 2 he doesn't believe it, and only says it to win the election, and dreams of abandoning his dumb voters, trying to sooth all the trouble he's sowed and undo the incredible damage he's done. Then he's dumb.
 
@sbi No, in the latter case he is perfidious and dangerous.
 
@sbi Maybe there's 3) He wants to deliberately tank the Republicans so that Hillary becomes President?
 
sbi
@Columbo That, too. But also dumb, because the damage can never be undone.
 
@sbi Right--and if we could nominate a specific answer (rather than a question) when closing as a dupe, that would be great. I can see, however, some room for arguing that if somebody who has a single, specific question, it's better to point them at a dupe that answers that specific question, than point them at a much more general question that makes the part they care about much harder to find.
 
10:53 PM
@JerryCoffin Really just goes to show that a FAQ is a bad fit for the SO format, which I think is fairly reasonable
 
sbi
@Puppy Yeah, but then look at how many dumb people that country houses, who fall for such primitive bullshit! That does incredible damage, and might also fail. So: dumb.
@JerryCoffin But he has linked to his answer from a comment to the question. He could just as well have linked to the existing exhaustive answer.
 
redditor messes with indian phisher that says there is a virus on his windows computer:
 
Don't get me wrong either. I'm not saying we should do this, only that if we want something to answer that question more specifically, then we should do exactly that, not add an incomplete answer to a general question, especially when that question already has an answer that provides the answer at least as well as the added one does.
 
> The last guy asked what the key was in the lower left corner. I told him it was the "control" key. He asked what the key next to it was. I told him it was a picture of a donkey fucking his mother. For some reason he hung up on me....
 
sbi
@Puppy Ack.
 
10:54 PM
@Puppy Hmm. I think you have to be smart (to some extent) to be able to pull off what he pulls off. Or maybe that's another one of my problematic ideas ;D
 
the only thing Trump has pulled off is realizing that there's a lot of Americans as dumb as he is
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Yes, I agree. (Although I am skeptical whether we should want this.) Only that guy couldn't do that because the question he wanted to post his here's-your-solution answer to was already closed.
 
@Puppy I'm not sure that's entirely true. I do think the existing FAQs tend toward being a little too general. That makes them easy for us (don't have to sort through many to find what one is a dupe of) but harder for the OP (who has to sort through a lot of long answers to find the part they actually care about).
 
sbi
@Columbo I think this is Scott Adams' idea as well. I disagree, though. Anybody who says this bullshit with a straight face, who encourages idiots beating up protesters at his rallies, who calls for torture, etc., can, by definition, not be smart.
Well, anyway. I am sure you guys can sort this out. I need to go to bed. 'night!
 
@Puppy I think there's a bit more to it than that. Although most of the answers he offers are clearly simplistic to the point of idiotic, a few of the issues he's discussed (well, one issue, anyway) other Republicans have mostly ignored, and Democrats have basically refused to acknowledge.
 
11:01 PM
@JerryCoffin Which issue is that?
 
Pure JavaScript comedy gold from the reddit thread #loljs https://t.co/OhRAZl6GoW
very top kek node ecosystem
 
@sbi How is calling for torture an immediate disqualification for smartness? Sure, it may not be ethically justifiable, but that doesn't in any way allow conclusions about the individual's smartness. Smart != moral. There can be smart people with inhuman and psychopathic views.
 
@Columbo Ethical justification is irrelevant. Calling for torture is stupid because it doesn't produce reliable information.
since it has no benefits, it's immaterial whether the costs are infeasible or not.
 
@Puppy That is not always true.
 
that's not what some smart scientists paid to study the matter said.
the CIA couldn't come up with a single instance where torturing detainees since 9/11 produced useful intelligence, according to their own government.
those two things are separate, by the way- the scientific studies were done separately to the CIA report.
 
11:06 PM
There probably are situations in which it could produce very important information. Information that could save lives. It's a matter of principles, though.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь schadenfreude is cheap.
 
that's just a random blind assumption with no basis in reality.
 
Wait until sourceforge bails tomorrow. Let's see how many C++ projects will be flailing for life
 
@sehe The more the better. SourceForge is semiliteral cancer
 
@Puppy The fact that while globalization has almost certainly been positive economically for the country as a whole, there is quite a large group of people who have been hurt by it pretty badly. The people hurt the worst are in a poor position to help themselves, and the system provides little or nothing to help them either.
 
11:08 PM
ITT @набиячлэвэлиь is running for POTUS
 
@JerryCoffin I agree that that's a big problem which should be addressed. But I don't think it's fair to say that the Democrats ignore it. They've been trying to discuss income inequality for a while, but they get bitchslapped so hard every time that they've basically given up, as far as I can gather.
@набиячлэвэлиь I love that comment at the bottom.
 
@sehe Oh, remember the one time it put ad/malware into FOSS .zip releases residing thereon? Fun times
I can make FOSS great again.
#JędrzejForPOTUS2016
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Of course I do. I was referring to your charring debating style
 
charring?
 
Arr.
ITT @sehe's almost @thecoshman
 
11:11 PM
@Columbo It undoubtedly does produce real intelligence at times--the problem is that it produces meaningless drivel often enough that it's essentially impossible guess what's real and what's pure fiction.
 
@Puppy Let's assume some wanker hides a clock-based bomb in a hospital that is gonna go off in ten minutes. Go find the bomb. Oh, and you have the wanker. Do what you please, no one's watching. Or imagine that some wanker abducts a person, gets caught but refuses to tell where that person is hidden. Happened in Germany. The wanker was threatened with torture and confessed; the victim was unfortunately already dead at the time.
@JerryCoffin Yep, totally agree.
 
@Columbo That's not a fair representation of what happened. He'd already killed the dude before interrogation got involved.
 
> >present participle of an integer type of size 1
 
@Puppy Right, but these scenarios do occur (? I assume so) with the victims still alive. There is little chance in finding them when the hijacker refuses to cooperate.
 
11:14 PM
ok, well, there you go.
 
@sehe badpun on cosh being pirate and you being seemingly piratelike with your words
 
sigh. people keep coming up with far-fetched reasons to compare me to the pirate. It's unsettling
 
you have an anecdote of one case where it basically didn't really accomplish anything and then you're just generalizing randomly based on an assumption.
 
so *char is pointing to the blackened surface
 
here's a simple reason to think that it won't: that guy already had nothing to lose, since the child was dead and he wasn't gonna get to spend the money. If you're a jihadi who wants to blow up the US, if you don't tattle on your mates, they might well still achieve your objectives. So there's a lot more motivation to not give up.
 
11:16 PM
@Puppy There's concern for income inequality, yes--but the programs advocated by our Democrats are basically useless. What we should be doing is helping somebody who's lost a job to get a new job--including retraining and (if necessary) helping them move. The Democrats' programs give them enough to keep them from starving, but not enough to really improve their situation (as a rule).
 
@Puppy ... than excruciating pain? Dunno, that can drive you pretty crazy if you didn't take some drugs.
 
@JerryCoffin Well I must say that I'm too far removed from this situation to be a real judge and don't really know many relevant details; but it's my understanding that they would do more if they could.
 
@sehe I'm not explicitly searching for ways to compare you to him, it just seemed appropriate punny at the time
 
I understand
 
@Columbo Right, but that's the problem.
the guy is already crazy, and he thinks he'll go to Heaven for eternity if he doesn't talk, so you're taking a crazy guy, adding in a lot more crazy, and then hoping for a rational outcome.
 
11:18 PM
IDQuiteG the whole pir8 drama
 
Agreed. I don't support torture, because it generally being permitted is just complete nonsense. I'm just saying that it would be a shame if we lost lives because of principles.
 
but it's a lot simpler for them to just lie and make up any old thing.
especially since you can't really know in advance exactly what they do know.
 
@Puppy Assume that we do know that they have the information we seek.
 
more random assumptions
 
Not really
 
11:19 PM
stop assuming things and check out a fucking study or a CIA report.
they will tell you how it works in the real world where you don't randomly assume things.
pro tip: it doesn't.
 
@Puppy I'm simply restricting the number of situations in which I would consider torture to give potential results.
Namely those in which the subject is known to have been directly involved in whatever event we need information about
 
there are none.
 
@Puppy As far as I can see, they would do some things differently, and yes it would definitely cost more--but most of what they suggest looks to me like basically vote-buying--expanding the current programs to get more people dependent on welfare, but doing little (if anything) more to really help people get into a better situation.
 
@StackedCrooked ISTR a for-100 multiply 0 by i test, Clang reduced it to xor eax,eax;ret and GCC "unrolled the shit out of that 0".
 
11:23 PM
well I agree that people shouldn't need welfare in general
and we have a similar problem here where we have massive welfare programs we can't afford because our people have shitty low-paid jobs.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Really?
That's stupid.
 
@StackedCrooked Yes
 
I found Clang is often smarter than G++.
 
I think we should put most of the money in the direction of schools. College tuition has been growing at an almost alarming rate. We should 1) do more to encourage trade schools, not just colleges (our current colleges don't seem to fit the job market, or life in general, very well at all, and 2) basically make tuition essentially free for anybody who maintains good enough grades.
 
However, I'm not sure such aggressive unrolling is really smart.
 
Slightly modified :) (Rename main to t, accept x as param, and return the result)
I did not expect the punpcksldfa
 
@StackedCrooked No, x was int x = 0
 
Clang reduced it to return 0, GCC went balls deep
 
Can't reproduce that though.
 
11:29 PM
Yeah
 
I suppose integer overflow UB?
 
@StackedCrooked Looks like gcc is vectorizing it.
 
But it doesn't seem correct.
Oh.
Wait it is correct.
Since i starts at 0.
Stupid clang. Smart gcc.
 
It only does this if after I enabled loop unrolling. Apparently during the unrolling the gcc realized the optimization.
 
11:32 PM
And incorrect (x*1*2*3*4*5*[...]*101 != 0 unless x == 0)
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Hm...
1*2*...*101 results in integer overflow though
so that would be UB
But unsigned gives the same result.
 
@JerryCoffin The real question for me is why is tuition so fuckin' expensive in the first place.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь it's detecting that 101! will overflow. Reduce the upper limit to, say, 10, and the generates real code.
 
ah ffs
integers why
 
@Puppy That is a good question, but probably one that needs to be addressed more at the state level (colleges are mostly run privately or by states, not by the federal gov't).
 
11:40 PM
that.. sounds like a problem in as of itself.
 
@JerryCoffin Actually it detects that the result will become a multiple of 2**32 so all bits will be zero.
 
@StackedCrooked I believe that's correct. An unsigned basically keeps the N least significant bits of a result, and 101! is going to have a lot of zeros on the end...
 
@JerryCoffin Cool.
Solved case! :)
 
Case solved, the fact that compilers are crazy confirmed.
 
@JerryCoffin not if you store the interim/final results on the hard disk or using an array
 
11:42 PM
...and assembly programmers will still be saying that assembly is faster. :D
 
@Griwes They're right. Compilers do some pretty insane optimizations, but they also frequently generate pretty clumsy code.
 
I refuse to believe that anyone in the world is actually capable of writing big amounts of nontrivial code using vector instructions fully by hand.
 
Isn't that what Mysticial did?
 
@Griwes Your beliefs aren't really a controlling factor in the equation though.
 
@Mysticial doesn't even know C :P
 
11:46 PM
@StackedCrooked He uses intrinsics rather than actual assembly language, but yes it's basically hand-written assembly with a somewhat unusual syntax.
If anything, vector instructions seem to work the other direction: compilers make fairly poor use of them; good hand-written assembly language (or intrinsics) wins by a bigger margin than ever.
 
No, it's not basically that, because keeping track of variables is harder in direct assembly.
 
yeah, I think I agree with Griwes on that one- using intrinsics and using assembly is quite different things I think
 
@Puppy It's true that they're somewhat different--intrinsics are clumsy and much harder to use well, at least as a rule.
 
Do compilers attempt to optimize inline assembly?
 
@StackedCrooked I suppose there might be some optimizer somewhere that does, but most I've seen just pass it through as-is. I'd be surprised at a compiler that did. I wouldn't be nearly as surprised by a linker (that supported link-time optimization) doing it though.
 

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