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00:00
@MooingDuck oh well i did. it's an insane argument, that because microsoft chose to pass those handles to WinMain (instead of e.g. and more efficiently just putting them in static variables), WinMain was necessary. there isn't room in such comments to address every incorrect assertion, and most all of them were incorrect.
Most 16-bit Windows apps let WinMain immediately copy the hInstance handle to a global variable, so in practice it was two places: on the stack frame, and in a static variable. Instead of being just one place.
@CheersandhthAlf ah. It was the only argument against you that I felt held water. Hadn't considered a static variable. (Or why didn't they just add a call to fetch that value?) Either way: what you say makes sense.
The history arguments are kinda moot when you can add a library implementing WinMain to default compiler link list.
Actually as I recall in 16-bit Windows there was a data export from the kernel DLL, but I'm not sure if it was or related to those handles. I remember it surprised me when I found out about it. I thought until then that only functions could be exported.
Or just have it as an option, really.
And while we're at silly compat stuff, why the hell main doesn't take std::vector<std::string>.
Because you can just do vector args( argv, argv + argc )?
00:08
@CatPlusPlus std::bad_alloc before entering main doesn't sound like good news.
@CatPlusPlus hah. Out of curiousity I converted that Hg repo into a Git repo. Now it is only 31Mb in size and the initial upload to Github took only 2m28s. Using a bandwidth of only 230Kb/s on average
I'll keep working with Hg. Can only help to know. By the way, I ended up doing manual merges (apparently I borked the first patch, so things wouldn't apply anyway).
@LucDanton CRT allocates tons of stuff before main.
@CatPlusPlus Wait, was this about Windows programming or Standard main?
@CatPlusPlus did u know, the 16-bit Windows API is an ECMA standard? :-)
Both.
Every MS thing is ECMA standard nowadays.
00:10
@CheersandhthAlf It must be good then
@CatPlusPlus Can only guess, the 16bit API has been so for a while now?
Maybe. I'm not interested enough to check
I'm now more interested in a library implementing modern-style entry point.
@CatPlusPlus me neither, just venturing a guess
@CatPlusPlus Right. It's not like making an std::vector<std::string> form of main is going to prevent people from using the other forms when they care about std::bad_alloc anyway.
Still, it seems extremely unlikely allocation might fail at that point.
If it does, program wouldn't be able to do much anyway.
00:13
@LucDanton The only added value would be that of vision. So we don't have to keep pointing at Stroustrup et al. saying that, really, C is obsolete and, no you don't need to use pointers
yes | head -n 10000000 | xargs program!
Right now the message seems a bit mixed
@CatPlusPlus The problem is that you can't handle the failure, not that it can fail in the first place.
@RMartinhoFernandes Too bad xargs will limit the commandline anyways
You can't handle CRT failure in startup code, either.
00:14
@sehe Damn.
@CatPlusPlus Not the problem of the Standard though.
Sure. And it wouldn't introduce any new problems when using std::vector as args. :P
@RMartinhoFernandes getconf ARG_MAX: returns 2097152 here. See also in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/argmax.
And it has a reasonable chance of not being rejected by default since the other forms of main are still available, yes.
3
A: Limits of length for the output of * in bash?

seheThe shell is does not limit this You can see the limit for your system with (run on my 64bit linux:) $ getconf ARG_MAX 2097152 See this very informational page http://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/argmax/

@CatPlusPlus Entirely feasible to run with minimal crt or one optimized for e.g. embedded systems - arguably leaving the standard behind then
00:18
@sehe Implementations can choose to be freestanding.
int main(std::array_ref<std::string_ref>) // no std::bad_alloc!
std::initializer_list<const char*> is available right now.
hey guys
I've been thinking of starting my own Roll To Dodge
any ideas for a setting?
Xeo
Xeo
Roll to dodge?
it's a forum game
kinda like D&D but more creativity and way less rules
thing is, then I'd have to actually be creative!
00:29
What about... a secret agent, having hallucinations about his estranged lover...
shut it, you
man, they weren't even estranged!
and I only referred to that plot point twice, that is not a very high number for a generic plot piece
how about more like
00:31
Why does top-left corner of my window have negative coordinates in raw input? :.
And it's not even that (0, 0) is in the middle.
"You, the X players, wake up in a sci-fi dormitory with no memories. You open the door to observe a gigantic maze of corridors with endless twists, turns, and doors. Who knows what could be out there? But one thing's for sure- there's no toilet in here."
@CatPlusPlus I thought that Raw Input gave relative co-ordinates from the last message?
at least, that always worked for me
It has a flag that tells you whether it's absolute or relative. I thought it'd send absolute at least for the first time. :.
Well, crap. How am I supposed to calculate absolute coordinates, then.
Wait, I can query them outside of RI.
I don't think I ever got absolute from RI
@DeadMG That does sound generic.
true
00:36
Especially the "sci-fi dormitory" part.
man, I'm just not a plot kind of person
more of a mechanics kind of person
besides
RTDs are sandboxes- the fun is in what the player does, not what's originally there
ok, I admit it, I probably wouldn't make a very good GM
but our current GM sucks and I want a new one
I don't know how it works over the Internet, but IME sandboxes don't work very well for RPGs.
eh
in a conventional RPG, there are only X ways to interact with an object or another player or shit you can do
in RTD there are no limits
@DeadMG When I say RPG, I don't mean computer RPG.
in my first game I went around teleporting my enemies into walls :D
I mean
there's nothing wrong with "Environment to explore; burning need to find X inside it; get cracking"
00:42
I want to go find the orb of zot
Wrong game.
Amulet of yendor?
I got that one once!
wtf are those things?
00:44
hey, you're only like, three nanoseconds older than me
But I know what those things are.
DeadMG is 23.9999999997?
I'm 24. Or 25. Something like that. I think DeadMG is younger.
Ok, SO profile says 24.
I never got to Zot without wizard mode. ;(
I've never even gotten a rune
00:47
Okay, coordinates fixed. Now how to make the damn system window controls work.
what, you mean the Win32 native controls?
@RMartinhoFernandes Three years younger- I'm 21
System buttons — close window and stuff.
which is why I said three nanoseconds instead of pi nanoseconds
This story "The Anorexic Startup: Sex, Drugs, C++" is extremely misleading. A quick control-f reveals that the only mention of anorexia, sex, drugs, and C++ is in the title :(
@CatPlusPlus Set style to receive button, process appropriate message
00:49
It has a button, but it doesn't work since I've activated raw input.
Or moving the window.
strange, I never had a problem with RI and the others
did you set that bit that says to receive normal mouse messages and RI messages?
@DeadMG I just checked and I'm almost 25!
@RMartinhoFernandes 22 in October
oh, by the way, I got my results in from my January exams
a massive raft of failures, on top of the project I haven't done
So, everything as expected?
00:52
yeah
still crapping myself about it
I wondered why recently there's more questions tagged both C and C++, and then I remembered I just unbanned .
I need to expend way more effort on my game if I wish to actually launch it, even as an indie game, and get my foot in the door of any kind of software engineering job
-1
Q: Compiler warning message

skokal01I have a piece of code when compiled gives me this warning #define SKM_sk_set_cmp_func(type, st,cmp) \ ((int (*)(const type * const *,const type * const *)) \ sk_set_cmp_func(CHECKED_PTR_OF(STACK_OF(type), st), CHECKED_SK_CMP_FUNC(type, cmp))) #define sk_X509_set_cmp_func(st, cm...

lol, I love how it turned how to be macros.
@DeadMG Either that or more effort in school.
my school is not worth my effort
@RMartinhoFernandes It practically screams "OpenSSL".
00:57
Maybe the code snippet was encrypted
@CatPlusPlus : The problem I had the other day turned out not having anything to do with mixing boost::circular_buffer and Eigen::Vector3f.
Yay, I finally have user defined literals.
does Clang for Windows support things like COM?
COM needs compiler magic?
dunno
yes, it does
that __uuidof() stuff is a compiler extension by MSVC
Oh. I doubt you have that.
01:11
also, I couldn't #include the DX headers and link to the DX libs if the compiler didn't support the VS "hilarities" and object file format
cause
I'm sick of VS's nested-lambda bullshittery
and I'd like variadic templates and suchlike thingamajiggies
So you're taking my advice and finally getting a better compiler, huh?
eh
unless Clang for Windows supports all the necessary extras for me to work with DX, then there is no competition
it's not like GCC for MinGW or under Cygwin would let me run DirectX applications
01:19
Is there a C++11 implementation status page for Clang 3.1?
@CatPlusPlus ?
Xeo
Xeo
WIN!
@DeadMG Why wouldn't MinGW let you run DirectX applications?
01:21
I don't see 3.1 in the right-hand column.
@CatPlusPlus I meant build
@EmileCormier There's no clang 3.1 yet. What's in SVN will be in clang 3.1.
and as far as I'm aware, because the DirectX headers are full of MSVC-specific extensions and MinGW does not emulate them
It comes with DX9 headers.
oic, silly me
01:21
and 11, and Direct2D?
Dunno, but there are probably newer ports going on, too.
1
A: How to compile a DirectX 11 app in MinGW

Mārtiņš MožeikoIt seems that here it is explained how to get DX headers from SDK work with MinGW: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/tbk/20110115/1295080728 Use Google Translate to translate page to english. Alternatively try using DirectX headers from mingw64 project from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw-w64/fi...

the commenter basically says "It doesn't work."
I can't seem to find which version of clang is shipped with XCode 4.3.1
my google-fu fails me :(
hmmm
MinGW64 comes with DX10 and 11 headers.
01:25
@CatPlusPlus The commenter implies that they are less than reliable.
Somehow, I don't trust that commenter.
If interface is missing, it can be generated from .idl.
ah i see XCode 4.3.1 ships with Clang 3.0
I need UnitBlueprint
01:29
What's that?
uh
it's the equivalent of a class for unit types in an RTS
Oh, a class in your code.
so e.g., create unit of X blueprint means all those units have the same mesh, the same behaviour, etc
Frak you svn. This $ svn cleanup crap is sooooooooo...
then I add per-unit specific extension points
none of which I will ever use, but I'll feel better knowing they're there
actually
specifically, UnitBlueprint was the name of a function that registered a blueprint in Supreme Commander
01:33
Supreme Commander's code was released?
no, it had a lot of logic written in Lua script
I started programming because I wrote scripts for the game
and then I wrote a maphack for the game that utterly destroyed all the security protocols
and I was like "Hey, I rock at this!"
it was fun, though
had to deal with synchronization and threads and stuff, which was a lot for an ickle scripter like me
was also the start of my dynamic typing hate, because I spent three days hunting down a bug between an index of "1" and 1
aah
good times
of course
after I sent the developers the source code like a responsible person, they banned modding from their next game because they couldn't figure out how to prevent it
so I'm not sure it was really worth it
Wait, you're telling me you're responsible from screwing up thousands of modders?
You're a monster!
hehehe
it wasn't my fault! :P
Whenever I hear "it's thread safe" I mentally substitute "it's broken".
I did the responsible thing- I found a hole, I proved that it existed and that it was absolutely gigantic, and then I was totally honest about it and never abused it
besides, it was not thousands
SupCom always had a relatively niche appeal
especially since the hardware requirements were frankly absurd for the time of release and it didn't scale well to higher hardware eithr
01:40
@Xeo hey, what's the magic word to tell configure to not build clang in debug mode?
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Uuuh...
Ah
--enable-optimized=1
And for the gigs, I'd also add --enable-targets=host-only
Does playing violent games release my anger or nurture it?
@EmileCormier There is no scientific evidence to suggest that playing violent games has any lasting negative impact upon the player.
@DeadMG : I seem to recall seeing that statement before, but it was for people past a certain age.
there is no evidence at all
most of the studies are directed at the young because American society is OH WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN
01:45
@DeadMG : Really? Wow. I can't imagine an 8yo playing GTA and not having problems.
@EmileCormier Actually, it's because they're so young
they don't understand the content
@RMartinhoFernandes A typo for GTA, I'd expect
Grand Theft Auto
01:46
It is my first time using pointers. If I set *option = 5; and checked line 23. It will print out `Enter option: 5'. But I don't want it to do anything when it is 5.
Sorry, that sentence makes too many assumptions about the reader.
but as someone who played violent games all his life, and so did everyone I know, it doesn't seem to have affected any of us
@LearningC How the hell am I possibly supposed to help you if you don't show your code?
@DeadMG opps forgot to include link. ideone.com/xk0sM
waaiitt a minute
this isn't C++!
It is c, forgot to mentioned that too =)
01:49
@DeadMG : After getting my ass kicked for 2 hours in Team Fortress 2, I feel quite frustrated. That's why I'm questioning the healthiness of that activity. Too old to play online with the young folks with ninja reflexes, I guess. lol
Buy some hats and relax.
@EmileCormier That's got nothing to do with the content of the game and everything to do with the fact that you feel frustrated that you got your ass kicked :P
Or if your skills << your enemies skills
That's why I play medic most of the time.
What is medic?
01:51
But then again, medics are always prime targets.
A player class in the multiplayer game Team Fortress
ohh
yea forgot about that.
Only old people play medics
Maybe it's the alcohol
why do I build features into my game that I don't need? :P
@LearningC : I don't see why you even need a pointer
@LearningC : Just use 'a' instead of *option
I have a feeling my laptop's temperature sensors are broken.
01:59
Hatshatshats.
@RMartinhoFernandes: What makes you think that?

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