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02:00
So, if you wanted to improve NGS what would you do?
@Mikhail I dunno, but I hear there's other tech that's already looking to supercede the current generation with micro currents or something like that
I don't know much about it though. We start analysis after alignment, mostly
Notice how the way to improve it is in hardware
@Mikhail Yeah...
But what's your point? (Sorry if I'm not making sense I went to sleep late)
The exciting work done in NGS is in building new instruments, not in assembling data.
@Mikhail Mmmm yeah you're right
But there's lot of exciting work in the analysis part!!!
02:07
Specifically?
@EricLiani Hey
@Mikhail Well, almost everything
Normalization, error modeling, power analysis, sample size analysis, clustering, differential expression...
Especially in single cell RNA-seq analysis
division,bullshit,division,division,k-means,maybe k-menas
@Mikhail What do you mean division?
And there are better methods than k-means out there that work better; some of our research works with that
Don't get stuck in the analysis role, its often a dead end in terms of project ownership
@Mikhail What do you mean?
02:10
Who ever tells you do something owns the project
@Mikhail Well, sure. But I get authorship of the paper of my project too.
Anyways, everything in this world is interesting
@Mikhail Wait, you're at UI?
Mind if I look at your page?
02:12
I don't have one
@Mikhail But you're on the faculty list, right?
Or are you a postdoc?
No, I'm a graduate student
@Mikhail Ohhh I see
publication list is a little short because 2 of them are under review right now. One with STM.
If the STM gets through I don't have to do work for the rest of my life.
What's STM?
02:14
Science Transnational Medicine
Oh wow
Which part of the process is it on?
review 2
Oh I mean the analysis process
@Mikhail I have a paper under review too actually. But it's not so much analysis but more of an auxiliary tool
Well I built the system and did the processing, then somebody else segmented the data into the cancer/non-cancer categories. Now we have an automated cancer diagnosis system.
@Mikhail But there's many ways of doing that
What kind of data were you guys working with?
02:17
We're using holographic images, that we believe contain the same information as H&E pathology
@Mikhail Oh cool!
Yeah I think one of my groupmate's papers just got accepted; she did stuff with metabolomics data
@Mikhail But you're EE right? Do you know any papers on static analysis of computer programs?
Sorry, not my field. Why do you need that?
@Mikhail That's my proposal that I'll be pitching at a small festival tomorrow
Can you make a tool that helps me organize my includes efficiently?
@Mikhail Well... I suppose I could with a graphing tool and a database of some sort
02:23
One that figures out if I accidentally did #include <A> #include <B> and somehwere else did #include <B> #include <A>
@Mikhail Oh well that's finding a cycle for graph theory
@Mikhail include_what_you_use?
@Borgleader Does it do that? I almost used it.
@VermillionAzure Not really cycles. I just want to reduce the number of unique permutations to reduce compile times
@Mikhail Welp looks like it exists
02:25
I'm including extra crap, I need to reduce the permutations
then some day modules
I personally like to include things in the same order. I usually group by "locality" (project files, external libraries, standard includes) and within that by alphabetical order (taking into account subfolders)
Indeed, I want a static analysis tool that figures this out for me
and chokes when I fucked it up
Also, I'm not sure the alphabetic list is optimal ...
Permutations are the same stuff ... different order ...
Well you could use that tool to remove the extra ones, and then the ordering is probably doable through a script
Yeah, and one day somebody will write that script
02:28
Its probably like 20 lines of python :P
Maybe with GREP or EDG :-)
@Mikhail My tool is more on algorithms and stuff
Reads like bullshit
Not really includes... Although that could possibly be a thing too
@Mikhail Application and mutation of traits by operations in sequence
You understand that C++ compile times are holding back the technological singularity?
02:30
@Mikhail This is for safety, though, not speed.
please fix the compile times
for example, the only reason I'm here is because the code is taking too long to build
and thats mostly because Qt's build tool runs in serial
so, do a thesis on fixing moc
user406009
@Mikhail Well, there is Pimpl.
user406009
But that has other issues.
02:32
pimpl is cancer
^ this, i cant stress that enough
but compile time is also cancer
user406009
Well, there are sorta intermediate ground techniques in the middle.
user406009
You can reduce the number of headers by predeclaring types in some cases.
user406009
02:34
@Mikhail Have you looked into precompiled headers?
user406009
They suck, but sometimes better the frying pan than the fire.
So, thing like #include "stdafx.h"
work on this same caching idea.
I suspect a modern compiler should cache every unique #include permutation
I have no clue if this is true
what do you mean
user406009
Don't most compilers only work on one file at a time?'
Well, it could build something like a module for each unique permutation of includes?
#include <A> #include <B> as one module, #include <B> #include <A> as another module (or cached result)
02:38
Too many permutations
really?
I got 64GBs of ram on my laptop
#pragma onces are cached
can't we cache like the top 120 permutations?
fastbuild does some caching
user406009
@Mikhail Precompiled headers seem much simpler.
02:39
also distributed compilation + cache is the business
@Lalaland Its the same thing, you can have it explicit or implicit
user406009
Just include everything in your PCH.
user406009
Don't have like a bajillion individual PCH's for every possible scenario.
same thing
02:40
We can have the compiler choose when it wants to pch my files
Its not a coincidence that stdafx.h must go first
otherwise the feature wouldnt work
thats irrelevant
you are much better at chosing which files are not likely to change and therefore which to put in the pch
and you will only have one "permutation"
Indeed
But I wonder how much could be done automatically?
Do you really want to wait like 2 months of slow compiles for the compiler to figure out which files are statistically the same. (slow because no pch + stats gathering)
humans are better at this job than compilers, i dont see the point in doing it automatically
blobs OTOH are a different beast
02:44
please don't call my mom that
Is it really that hard?
On one hand you're telling me its 20 lines of python, on the other hand you're saying its gonna take 2 months :-)
This is why we need computer scientists!
uh.... those were 2 different problems
its 20 lines of python to alphabetize your includes
yeah, so cache the most common permutations
not choose which ones go into a pch
Only problem with doing python is that #defines mess it up
user406009
02:47
@Mikhail a couple of factors determine that. How often the header changes. How often that header is included and how often that header forces that file to recompile
user406009
And how costly that header is.
This is starting to sound like an interesting problem!
but what about modules
4
modules are ded
also good night
02:50
@TonyTheLion night <3
You guys still waiting on modules? lol
Modules are for chumps, I want automatically optimized PCH
also Modules would be nice
user406009
@Mikhail modules remove most of the need for pch.
03:05
Indeed
Is there a way to use ceral to automatically generate friend comparison operators?
@LucDanton oh boy seriously?
rip anet
03:34
night
fuck, why does ReSharper warn me about "possible object re-slicing"? I think I'm being clever...
now you have to de-re-slice your program
Can I just ReSharper it?
but a reference doesn't trigger that warning
what even is re-slicing
inb4 luc helpfully mansplaining it as "slicing, twice"
03:51
BaseClass foo= myDerived_class_with_extra_members;
extra members are sliced
my static analysis tool is giving me a warning
slicing is bad and bjarne was on drugs that day
04:49
The plane was quite full, yet I had the whole row to myself ... in a way better than 1st class ...
user406009
05:20
@HubertApplebaum No, no, no, it was all on purpose.
user406009
user406009
Without glorius Bjarne there wouldn't be any programming jobs any more.
user406009
Without the shittiness that is C++, all the programs would have already been written.
user406009
And then we would have all been out of a jub.
 
1 hour later…
07:23
Software engineers create jobs for ourselves - programmers up the stream upgrade their libraries each year & programmers down the stream upgrade their code to cope with those updates... testers & support always has some new problems to deal with.
@Puppy Hey, so I think I figured out RTTI without using... well, actual RTTI.
At least, for the case of identify if one type is the same as the other.
What I would do is just have a template <typename T> struct rtti_id {}; that, for each unique instantiation, gets an incrementing static integer from a free function. That way, for each instantiation, I would have a unique index, and thus could probably compare them.
For the casting part, though... I just have to use a C cat and pray for the best,
07:44
hello
everyone
can someone please help me with debugging my code
Oh boy.
something very strange is happening with the execution
Is it a simple program?
project-euler problem 4
largest palindrome product of three digit numbers
Never worked it.
07:46
hmm .. ok
:(
@ThePhD can i ask some questions
Knock yourself out.
:/ ??
Was that a yes or no?
English expression for "yes".
hmm .. ok
user1804599
09:10
oh wow, I drank a half bottle of rum last night :\
Why do you think you feel like you must announce your drinking?
I'm announcing my amazement I am up so early feeling relatively fresh
09:41
Good moaning.
Yay, st::is_callable in C++17 /o/
No concepts for C++17.
No coroutines for C++17.
what is std::is_callable
@Rapptz A trait to know whether the instances of a type can be called.
I'm talking interface.
A mere boolean type trait I guess.
Personally, I want concepts, but the timeframe concerns me. Definition checking is like binocular vision - nice, but I can live without it.
boring
a lot of people are disappointed with C++17
09:53
The only thing that will give me some work is the parallelism TS.
The library did gain many things. The language on the other hand... fold expressions might be the biggest new features.
Many decisions about accepting language changes have been deferred to Oulu though, so there might be some surprises left.
the library things added are pretty minor
it's honestly a tad disappointing that we don't even have std::future::then to compensate for the lack of coroutines.
I thought it'd make it in because why not but it seems it didn't
The merged TSs aren't that minor.
sorry, I'm excluding <filesystem> here.
<boost/filesystem.hpp> has existed for a very long time
Still, std::optional, std::any, std::string_view are not the smallest things to implement either.
I've implemented all of them lol
09:57
The parallelism TS will give lots of work to the implementers, but it just looks like a small update from a user's pov.
@Rapptz IIRC libc++'s implementation of optional is like 700 lines, which is rather big compared to what the class does.
cool
mine's bigger
So... definitely not something you want to reimplement in every project.
barely
~770 loc

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