« first day (1965 days earlier)      last day (3209 days later) » 

00:00
> Tomorrow I have a test for a company. My files must be easy to compile with Coliru (web compiler)
10
@StackedCrooked Your online compiler just got too famous :)
Apparently LEWG is interested in having a small_vector class.
I want boost::static_vector
Deprecate std::iterator
SF F N A SA
6 10 1 0 0
00:02
I didn't even know about std::iterator.
For C++next: deprecate value_compare classes; replace with <unspecified> with similar properties.
SF F N A SA
5 10 2 0 0
Deprecate algorithms taking half an input range
SF F N A SA
3 6 3 5 1
Deprecate the Redundant Members of std::allocator
SF F N A SA
9 7 1 0 0
Additionally deprecate std::allocator::max_size() and ::allocate(…, hint) for C++17
SF F N A SA
5 7 4 1 0
Reconsider vector<bool> Partial Specialization for C++next?
Wait for bit-vector type.
@Morwenn Interesting one.
Deprecate is_literal Trait for C++17
SF F N A SA
9 4 3 1 0
"half an input range"? do they mean std::generate_n and friends?
Deprecate the Temporary Buffer APIs for C++next
SF F N A SA
5 10 2 1 0
Deprecate raw storage iterators for C++next
SF F N A SA
2 12 2 2 0
Forward std::iterator, std::allocator w/ max-size&hint, and is_literal to LWG for C++17.
00:04
@milleniumbug The ones that take two ranges, but only a single iterator for the second range (instead of begin/end for both ranges). With these, it's up to you to ensure that the second range is at least as large as the first. If you pass two full ranges, it can figure out the shorter on its own.
So... lots of things happening.
I guess that I will have to hand-code the temporary buffer API in a near future :/
> The standard library has several algorithms that read from two ranges in order to determine their result. In most cases, the original C++98 standard fully specified the first range with a pair of iterators, and supplied only the first iterator for the second range, with a narrow contract requirement that the second range be at least as large as the first.
oh, them
@milleniumbug std::equal an std::mismatch for example. They were updated in C++14 and the old versions could go away.
yeah, they're so annoying
00:06
Define default_order?
SF F N A SA
9 4 3 3 0
My question would be whether it would be better for the committee to spend its time on better things like getting ranges in, then deprecating all iterators and iterator-based algorithms.
Forward to LWG for C++17?
SF F N A SA
8 4 4 0 1
@JerryCoffin No, iterator-based algorithms have value. Sometimes using a pair of iterators is handy and you don't want to always have to wrap them into ranges.
Cute :3
Indeed! :3
00:09
@Morwenn At least assuming the correct ctor is provided (and there's little reason not to) changing f(a, b, c, d) to f({a, b}, {c, d}) is hardly what you'd call a lot of overhead.
There's some stuff in the help page. Yes, that's well hidden. — sehe 9 secs ago
@JerryCoffin Well, I was more talking from an algorithm implementer point of view. It would often bother me to have to perform wrapping/unwrapping all over the place.
Also you can't fully implement something like std::inplace_merge with ranges only.
@StackedCrooked awesome!
std::compact_vector (a vector-like class that doesn't store the capacity) was rejected.
Apparently we will be able to store std::complex in an std::map in C++17.
too specialized imo
boost::static_vector would be better
it's more general
00:13
@milleniumbug Yeah, that's what they are pursuing with a small_vector-like class.
@Morwenn hopefully they're specializing std::less
adding operator< would be confusing
@milleniumbug No, they introduce std::default_order for when you need an order but it doesn't have any semantic value.
oh, even better
Yep :)
@Morwenn spent most of today listening to Electro Swing. That beat!
00:16
@jaggedSpire That's great until it gets annoying. But it can be great for a few days in a row :D
@Morwenn I can see that happening :P
@jaggedSpire Have you watched JustSomeMotion's neoswing videos?
VS2015 Find and Replace ignores space in string literal. WTH
@Morwenn I haven't!
@jaggedSpire I hardly ever like dance videos, but his ones are just awesome :)
00:19
@DeanSeo were you expecting quality from Visual Studio?
And there are like 4 of them.
@jaggedSpire You're right. I am just done with it, using babun and sed command, much better.
I wish there was something to replace the temporary buffer API and std::raw_storage_iterator if they become deprecated.
I know that libstdc++ has a _TemporaryBuffer class which is an all-in-one thing for this purpose.
@StackedCrooked No, not enough internet quite yet!
@Morwenn Hmm...I'll take your word for it (at least for the moment)--I haven't really tried to think through what's required specifically for inplace_merge.
Well, whenever you need a "middle" iterator, ranges are not sufficient :/
But I agree that std::equal({a, b}, {c, d}); wouldn't be a problem from a user POV.
nine pics for the mortal devs doomed to code /cc @Borgleader @Ell @ElimGarak @TonyTheLion @ThePhD @Ven @Xeo @набиячлэвэлиь
00:27
yay for floof
@Morwenn Yes--I thought at one time about how to do nth_element with ranges, and came up with a couple of ideas that would have worked, but neither (none?) of them struck me as entirely satisfactory.
IMO iterators are a nice abstraction, but needed far less often than ranges.
Ever since Alex's eaterating post every time I see the word iterator I mentally replace it with eaterator. I don't know why.
Using iterators is like eating with chop sticks.
@StackedCrooked It's enough most of the time.
00:30
@Morwenn My point, however, wasn't so much "get iterators out" as "get ranges in" (and probably at some point deprecate use of iterators to form ranges, but at least IMO it's less important to tell people not to use them than to provide a better alternative so they don't normally want to).
Because Asian food is designed to be eaten with chopsticks :p
Boost Asian
@JerryCoffin Giving them ranges with proper teaching should be enough. And I think everybody agrees that we want ranges (except maybe Linus).
sheet fox snow fox small fox /cc @Borgleader @Ell @ElimGarak @TonyTheLion @ThePhD @Ven @набиячлэвэлиь
@jaggedSpire Damn, jumping foxes are so cute :o
00:34
@Morwenn Linus? As in Torvalds? Is there some reason I'd care at all about his opinion (on any subject)?
agreed ^_^
@JerryCoffin I don't think so. Last time I saw him share his opinions in the GCC mailing list it was terrible.
Linus is like the opposite of Jerry.
@StackedCrooked Like Tom?
Hm, perhaps that too :)
@TonyTheLion OK, I'll give you 85% cuteness:)
@TonyTheLion :O
@TonyTheLion :3
@TonyTheLion Aw, and aw for the following too <3
<3
How is Morwenn?
00:40
Same old Morwenn.
Maybe I'm a lion.
@Morwenn Being a Lion serves definite advantages.
First of all, you're king.
Second you don't care about human beauty standards.
That too
You sleep 22hrs a day
and no one says anything
@Morwenn and yet are majestic as fuck
@TonyTheLion <3
00:45
@TonyTheLion Not sure whether wasting most of your short life is a good thing :/
Sometimes I wish I was a horse. They only need 2 hours of sleep a day.
sometimes I wish I was a dragon
morning gentlewomen
fus-roh-dah?
@HubertApplebaum Hey! Time to go to sleep :x
00:58
@Morwenn night
good night~~
Yep. I'll be there tomorrow to spam you again :)
@Morwenn night
01:44
@Morwenn G'night.
02:34
Okay, I have 2 things I need to do before I fnish writing the paper.
1. I need to finish writing the docs
2. I need to finish writing the benchmarks
Bikeshed: which one first?
benchmarks then docs
is it just me or has flash gotten extra terrible recently?
you know what it's been crashing my cookie clicker game
...I remember what the endgame of cookie clicker runs are like
There is no endgame?
it would be impossible to do well at them when you have to refresh the page periodically
it gets rid of all your wrinklers, IIRC
all of them. The ones that have been collecting for hours
eating your cookies, that you've left sitting there because clicking on them grants more cookies than they ate over their lifespan
they're gone, with no cookies gained and untold multitudes lost.
02:48
Kinky.
I need to figure out the proper way to do all these benchmarks.
...my cookie clicker game has been reloading for the last five minutes
I also made the multi_reporter for nonius.
No clue if it works. vOv
goodbye cookie clicker. /cc @Borgleader @CatPlusPlus
I don't need to deal with Flash's shit
Wrinklers are saved
Also what Flash
There's no Flash in CC
then why is it crashing my page
02:50
Are you using Firefaux?
Chrome
vOv
You're not running an adblocker or something?
ARE YOU BLOCKING COOKIES??
I'm running ublock
02:51
Should I play cookie clicker at work y/n
I don't think there are any ads other than Adsense there tbh
Maybe something is injecting some Flash shit
there are sponsored links at the bottom of the buildings menu for me. It looks like they use flash
Anyway never seen any Flash objects there
they have that sketchy look about them
Run uBlock and uMatrix and block all Flash crap
02:54
@HubertApplebaum I tried dagger teef
meh, just deleted the node.
uMatrix you say?
@LucDanton lol
let me guess how that went
I can safely it went pretty mediocre
at best
02:55
stealth stab stealth stab stealth stab stealth stab stealth stab stealth stab stealth stab stealth stab stealth stab oh no 1 condition rip dead
Also use uBlock Origin not uBlock because the latter is garbage
@HubertApplebaum or alternatively fear daze fear daze etc.
looks like I do use uBlock origin
Then there shouldn't be any ads on CC
I had pretty nasty visual bugs tonight, the deadly fields of conditions weren’t showing up :( "why am I getting burning and torment from rezzing my allay??"
02:56
hm
Dragonhunter traps/effects as well as usual, too
so 8/10 pretty gud competitive gaem
lol
dagger thief is very mediocre nowadays
@ThePhD /cc @Morwenn
and by nowadays I really mean since 2013
I was really surprised how much I had trouble pressuring my targets whereas I have exp. with the dagger from WvW vs. close to nil with the sword (which I had been using til then), but after looking up the builds turns out I was still building and playing like a sword teef
@HubertApplebaum no it’s been top dawg for over a year now
both PvP and WvW btw
they had to seriously buff sword to make it… not suck anymore
(they also buffed dagger auto while doing so, anet-style)
02:59
I'm out of the loop then
and I mained thief for a long time
ye the short version is that they gutted Flanking Strike and no-one has been using S/D since then
and I mean gutted
like, gutted?
i.e. using it right after the nerf was a DPS loss with barely an evade (but hey, boon rip!)
@HubertApplebaum proper like
S is making a come-back but that’s as S/P, I don’t think S/D is quite there yet
lol
S/P was cancer
anyway turns out you need to stack damage modifiers pretty high when playing dagger, no wonder I was backstabbing for 3k
03:06
yes
ruby gems and whatnot
and no I don't mean the packages
PvP mang
adapt to whatever the name in pvp is
I don't think I've played backstab thief in pvp by the way
lol ruby is berserker, berserker teef is 10k hp
have fun
yes but those backstabs doe
03:07
also it's like 14k HP
@HubertApplebaum nope that’s the old PvP pseudo-berserker (with invigorating precision maybe), now berserker really is zerk—and there’s Marauder for trading off ferocity to vitality now
which would be pretty fun on warrior if not for the whole, ya know, warrior thing
with invigorating precision yes
haven't played thief in like
4.2 million years
not to mention the ~500 vit on old Zerk/Marauder
Hey guys! SIGABRT anyone?
just cluster bomb from afar
SIGABRT your mom
03:14
lol
03:30
> Vaal Spark has been nerfed in almost every way possible.
those patch notes don’t beat around the bush
well I have successfully removed all cookie clicker progress, but not the thing that's injecting ads
:|
to the nuclear option then
Randomly joining electronic components without the slightest clue what they are (let alone what they do) is not the brightest idea in the world. Perhaps leave the electronics alone until you can go beyond calling everything "thingies"!! — PreferenceBean Feb 27 at 19:59
03:47
jesus
04:08
welp. it turns out that ads are normally in cookie clicker
oh well, I did have some weird-ass thing that I removed
or did I?
Ads are in nearly any free game. What I hate are the websites that run hyperlink ad campaigns. I always assume I accidentally installed adware
uMatrix only mentions the presence of casalemedia on SE
holy hell Dr. Dobbs
actually it only mentions it on the page regarding removal of ad injectors
lol
How will you know when the adware is gone/if you had it?
I'm checking the network requests from various web pages
//Ask not why the struct is big, but *why not* make a big struct.
Looking at code from 2013
04:23
a horrible mistake
Like std::reference_wrapper?
pretty sure it's gone if it was ever there. Can't find any requests to that domain
@Mikhail rekt
and oh, such a terrible thing, I've lost aaalllll my cookie clicker progress
three days, two antimatter condensers, 15 billion cookies per second, et cetera
Haha, I guess you got it. A friend of mine went and installed adware antivirus and asked me to remove it for him. I was pretty impressed; the programmers set it up to kill task manager and reboot itself using a couple daemons whenever the task was killed. Couldn't uninstall or delete it until I could stop it. I ended up using a batch file to task-kill through cmd
O.o Well, maybe you can write a script to play a couple days for you?
nah I'm using this as an opportunity to flee from its wicked ways
Ah, excellent choice. I was using clicker heroes, but I quit once I realized you plateau around lvl 100-200
04:29
It's occupied an unholy amount of free time since Sunday
@Aaron3468 ...>_>
with clicker heroes you have to ascend for the first time at level 140 maximum
do speed runs for the hero soul at level 100 for a very, very long time
buying ancients helps lots with this
I got up to level 625-ish before I got tired of that
I have a distinct weakness for incremental games, you see.
D: Well that's a killjoy. I realized that the only way to speed up that game was to rely on multipliers and stop hitting my head against the brick wall. I got to the point where the price jumped from x*10^27 for one hero to x*10^40 for The Dark Knight
yep, that one you buy the first level of at around 180-ish IIRC
Nearly got there, but took the nuke to my bad habit of playing the game; closed my eyes, deleted my progress, and I magically had no desire to play again
keeping hero souls around with some of them in force multiplying ancients is really the best way to get past it
Yeah, Morgulis is by far one of the more useful ancients. Still, clickers are mindlessly addicting. You keep getting things, that are really just words on a screen. I mean, sure, they're rewarding because of the effort, but are they fun?
Blegh. Poorly placed commas ftw
04:39
2 MORE EGGS
Eggs?
How do you people play Cookie Clicker idk
With zeal
04:43
Eggs are in the easter season
Random drops from GC
I think I quit playing just before they introduced those and I've quit again now vOv
Well, all games are arguably useless. On the other hand, there's value in being able to use them to unwind and keep your problem-solving faculties intact...
alternatives include reading a book or drinking (with people?).
Oh cool! A book with all those code snippets you spend hours figuring out, and rewrite for nearly every project you create ^_^
or reading a book and drinking
04:47
or drinking a book?
I dunno, I wouldn't be comfortable sharing a book with people.
I forgot the root pw of one of the production servers
Hmm, I wonder if my blender could handle a book. How healthy is the glue they use in the bindings?
I have a book on Blender, if that helps...
Perfect! You're hired!
truly darker times
it's nice they mention it's unneeded though
@HubertApplebaum Don't worry. The next vulnerability is just around the corner.
seems primarily targeted towards the times of c++03 with notes stuck in for modern c++
Documentation is almost always outdated by the time it's easy to find >.>
04:51
@Aaron3468 if it ever becomes easy to find. :P
Bwuh.
Benchmarking is hard.
@jaggedSpire True
@ThePhD yes
Y'know, we need a meta-language; you program your own syntax and features in a header file, import it, and there's no longer a need for all these idioms to imitate other languages.
that's called macros
and the c++ community is trying to get rid of them because they're a nightmare for code anything
04:54
C++ macros are not really that
Speaking of, it looks like Python developers got jealous
Textual substitution is not very useful
It has a few edge-cases that it solves, like allowing code re-use with large blocks of code in the middle. For example, you have the top half of a generic function, and the bottom set as macros and you can quickly define a new copy of the function with additional behaviours
05:01
Did you know Dumb spelled backwards is also Dumb!
I agree, they mostly make a mess of code. Better if the language makes less problems, rather than letting it become bloated with features that solve problems. Some languages feel like they constantly trip over their own feet xD
@Mikhail that doesn't work for me, I just get dmuⱭ
Well played
It has been 7 0 days since bloat has been mentioned
alright we’ll try again
@LucDanton I don't believe you that the counter's ever reached 7
05:04
it was a great streak wasn’t it
Lol, alright. I'll give the elephant a wide berth
It's difficult to avoid the elephant in Lounge<C++>
also the compile times
@Aaron3468 birth
facepalm
I started coding C++ and Ruby, moved to Java, and now I'm messing with Python. Anybody know if Python has elephants to watch for?
05:07
everything is pass by reference, kinda
also multiprocessing queues do a deep copy
spelling errors
indentation
You're a spelling error
Use Py3
Whats Py3?
@Mikhail Indentation errors
spelling
Yeah, I'm getting the impression python's weakness is just how dynamic it is; pretty naive
also the deep copies
05:10
I love the quality of C++ debuggers, and that's probably because I'm using them the most often of any language ^_^;
You can use MSVC to do Python
dynamic typing is for when you're overwhelmed by thinking
laffo the quality of C++ debuggers
@Aaron3468 I maintain that it's better to write the code without bugs than to remove them later.
Which language has the best debuggers?
05:15
I agree. I started a python project 2 days ago; the emulator is basically finished, but the code can be toppled by a breeze. Load the wrong file format and it'll hiss. I've been trying to figure out how to enforce types >.> missing the point of python
@Mikhail There is no "best". All debuggers are bad, so the best you hope for is the one that's the least bad.
@Mikhail .NET + VS
@CatPlusPlus You're not wrong. On the other hand, they spit out useful errors most of the time. most...
I'd rather go through gigabytes of log than deal with any debuggers
Logs are definitely useful when the debugger and error message have no clue what happened. Just takes extra time (I suppose it's better than messing with variables until code works, as debuggers sometimes leave people to do)
05:18
debuggers are good for inspecting UB
Btw, how does one go about writing code without bugs? By definition, bugs are unanticipated behaviours due to mistaken/oversimplified understandings
One way is to avoid frequent causes of bugs such as well known anti patterns
another way is to test thy code to detect bugs early on
Others ways include linking to other people's libraries, instead of rolling your own stuff
05:21
lol
make sure you know what assumptions you're making about preconditions and postconditions for your code
stick to only ever writing int main() { return 42; }
protobuf source code is unexplainably big
use cereal
Unit tests are definitely my favourite, but after a while I start using automated testing libraries
05:22
@HubertApplebaum It's buffed.
happy floof! /cc @Borgleader @ElimGarak @Ell @ThePhD @TonyTheLion @Ven @набиячлэвэлиь
@LucDanton Universe defined behavior. Can't rely on that.
@jaggedSpire I feel like you play LoL and have played WoW
05:24
wow it includes <hash_map> is this 2003
fortunately I never even started playing WoW. I'd still be chained to WoW if I ever started
lol, no worries
Suppose I should prolly set an avatar. Suggestions?
Copy one from a well known user
pick the largest size gravatar assigned to you, save it, then upload
find the trippiest image you can and crop to the most confusing part of it
05:33
@Mikhail channels Mikhail Become another poisson, become another poisson...
What is your avatar, Mikhail?
Apparently I'm guilty of tight coupling. I'm basically the teenager that sweeps the mess into the closet and under the bed when people come over xD
What do you do to avoid modules and headers while simultaneously keeping your code short and legible?
05:48
less code
I stick to writing int main() { return 42; }
@LucDanton Good call.
Good standby. Want to write the most interesting game? print 42. Fastest sort? print 42; runs in O(1) time. Random numbers? print 42
Thats bullshit, its indeed possible to write a shorter program!
http://www0.us.ioccc.org/1994/smr.hint
@LucDanton b l o a t

« first day (1965 days earlier)      last day (3209 days later) »