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17:01
@JerryCoffin Yeah, I found that on google. But it's from 2012. I actually couldn't find any mention of the project more recent than 2012 in my cursory search.
@Morwenn I wouldn't bet a whole lot on that. In medieval England, for example, literacy rates were so low outside the clergy, that reading Psalm 50 (didn't have to understand it, just be able to read it out loud) was enough to get an accusation of any crime short of high treason dropped, because clergy could only be prosecuted by the church (and it was taken for granted that nobody else could read it).
Oh, and that remained as an official part of English law until the early 1700's.
@JerryCoffin Wow, I didn't think you were that old :o
At least there were probably less grammar nazis at the time.
hey @BartekBanachewicz
poland question
@Morwenn Fewer grammar nazis, dammit. Fewer spelling nazis too, apparently. When (US President) Jefferson's secretary of the interior (or some such) was writing the letter to commission Lewis and Clark to explore the Louisiana Territory, the official letter had quite a few spelling errors. He apparently wrote another letter saying something to the effect that he though things would be too boring if there were only one way to spell a particular word. :-)
I could never make sense of less vs. fewer :x
17:11
fewer is quantifiable
float vs int
Really, is that all there is to it?
That's probably not sufficient, but still better than not knowing at all.
user1804599
Hello world
@Morwenn Fewer applies to things you can count. Less to things you'd measure. (e.g., "less water", "fewer apples"). It can be a little tricky in a few cases like sand or rice, were you could theoretically count, but you usually don't.
How come I never managed to remember that rule...
@JerryCoffin Well, there are several ways to spell some words.
user1804599
17:13
I feel great
hello princess
user1804599
#MakeZoidberg'sFeelingGreatAgain
@Morwenn True--but at least to me, it sounded like the idea that most words would have a single correct spelling, and others were wrong was considered open to dispute. Now I think most people pretty much take it for granted.
Maybe the Voynich manuscript simply uses an alternative spelling for many words.
@Zoidberg whats up
17:29
I want a kitty
@orlp There's always @Telkitty.
@Morwenn no, I mean a purring hairy kitty with whiskers
@orlp Imagine that: a young man wanting pussy. What a surprise!
@JerryCoffin c'mon man
low hanging fruit
@orlp I'm barely awake yet--that's about all I can handle this time of day.
17:33
@orlp Money can buy you anything.
user1804599
@slaphappy I'm hungry
@Morwenn even pussy?
@orlp Of course.
@Zoidberg interesting
17:34
Jambinai is so good *-*
user1804599
😆
user1804599
💩💩💩💩
user1804599
The new mobile chat isn't that bad.
it's decent
compared to the old one
I love how atmospheric black metal groups on FB just post songs and photos of trees.
17:37
I thought this was relevant
Yeah, it is.
@JerryCoffin I will fucking kill the people who put fake laugh into something's background
@ScarletAmaranth You will do no such thing.
@Borgleader how can you be so sure; what if I kill people in my leisure?
@ScarletAmaranth People in such jobs actually have their own "producer protection program" to prevent precisely that from happening.
17:39
@JerryCoffin I am a crafty motherfucker; they won't see it coming
@ScarletAmaranth They have Chuck Norris and the (ex-)Governator. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated laugh tracked.
@JerryCoffin Your comical and laugh-trackable distinctiveness will be added to our own.
C++17's range-based for loop will allow a range's end to have a different type than its begin. Good news for the Ranges TS & range-v3. #cpp
@slaphappy shoot
Also wtf new mobile chat
17:54
@Morwenn Has it been voted in yet?
(the range stuff)
@Borgleader I guess Eric wouldn't have tweeted if it hadn't been voted in.
Oh, the full range stuff no.
:(
ho well
Don't expect it before C++20.
#disgusted
The TS hasn't even been published. Of course it can't make it into C++17.
17:57
Well theres a year left =/
Ell
Ell
Don't we need concepts before ranges v3?
Why do we need concepts for ranges?
I thought concepts made certain things easier, not new things possible?
@Ell We do.
@Borgleader My laugh tracking cookies will follow you throughout the universe, and soon you will owe me more than the gross product of all cubes combined!
@Borgleader We don't need them but the committee certainly doesn't want to standardize that amount of SFINAE for the alorithms.
Ell
Ell
17:59
@Borgleader well, rangev3 uses its own concept implementation
There is no way std would accept ranges without concepts because there hat would involve adding concepts lite lite (eg ranges current implementation)
I didn't implement sentinels in cpp-sort because it's a nightmare to maintain along with the rest of the library without concepts.
Ell
Ell
@Morwenn have you tried gcc concepts?
@Ell No, but I sure will when GCC 6 is out. I don't want to rush things though.
@Morwenn ...and they need something that's at least extremely similar to concepts (even if it's not reflected directly in the code) to document/specify the requirements in the standard itself. So far, they've had/used informal concept-like wording, but without compiler checking, that's error-prone (at best).
18:05
if I want to give an application to another person, There is a way to give only binary (or something similar) and not the cpp files?
@AndreaCatania Yes, of course.
Ell
Ell
Just send them the binary
You can give them as much or as little as you like. Whether they'll (be able to) use what you send is an entirely separate question.
@AndreaCatania too much open source :P
@Borgleader Nah, it's only a question...
the real question is... When I download a program written in c++ I've the cpp files?
18:07
@AndreaCatania Well, if the program is written in C++, you by assumption have the C++ source
the response is probably no.. So what I download?
Ell
Ell
The answer is yes
If the program is written in machine code, you don't
Program != executable file
@AndreaCatania If you download the source, you have the source. If you download only binaries, you have only binaries.
@JerryCoffin Surprisingly, sometimes tautologies do answer questions
18:11
@JerryCoffin Ok, assume that I download the binary of a program or a game.... The installation process what do?
@AndreaCatania Wait, you download the program's binary or its installer('s binary)?
installer
@AndreaCatania Copy files around.
mostly
@AndreaCatania Depends on the installer. Many do some sort of de-compression, and copy the resulting files. Some also do other associated setup. Installing a daemon might edit some of init.d's files to get the daemon to run. Installing on Windows might involve adding some entries to the registry, etc.
Many installers also check for sufficient versions of associated libraries, and update them if necessary (exactly what will vary with what the program depends upon).
Ok perfect... In short a program is compiled in machine A then the binary output will run in the machine B (Of course not consider the differences from system 32/64bit or OS)
So we can say a binary to be runs need that must be compiled for a specific system right?
18:20
@JerryCoffin have you forgotten your garlic?
Ok perfect, thanks alot for the clarifications :-*
@AndreaCatania A...sort-of specific system. It's pretty easy to target quite a few different versions of Windows (for example), but those only run natively on Windows, not Linux, *BSD, OS X, etc. (and likewise for a different OS, of course).
@ScarletAmaranth Even if I had, my wife keeps enough around for the whole family.
This should be interesting. Hopefully lots of C bashing :)
18:39
-2
Q: A simple C++ test due tomorrow

SquaryI have an in-class university test tomorrow. I am in the second semester of my first year so I am doing fairly basic stuff, which I hope the kind people here would be able to offer some insight into. The test is supposed to take 45 minutes for students who have just learned the material, which I ...

^^ :)
@Mysticial I was going to post that
#disgusted
#noshame
wow this escalated quickly
3
Q: Is this authentication scheme secure?

almosnowI want to authenticate a client of a webpage and make sure it is a particular user. Let say that we already agreed on a particular hash (SHA256, actually, which I think is secure enough for this) and we both already exchanged a key in a file through a trusted medium. This key is pretty much a t...

@Eray Lol, don't scare him. Instead, we should guide him to the relevant sources so that he can learn. — Anmol Singh Jaggi 1 min ago
^^ ahaha. Not everyone can be saved. :D
@Mysticial I like Bill's comment
@Borgleader I bet he really wanted his mod-powers back for that moment. :)
18:50
you know what's vexing? a "This post has been locked while disputes about its content are being resolved. For more info visit meta." text, with no link to the meta question
@Mysticial If he was still a mod, he'd feel obliged to be more diplomatic about it.
I was searching meta for the meta question where the question above is discussed, and I couldn't find it, IOW it's a sham
ELI5: people that simultaneously don't like immigrants taking their jobs and high minimum wage
@orlp I want those crappy jobs filled by illegal immigrants who work for next to nothing, so my cost at the restaurant stays nice and low.
Ven
Ven
gulp /cc @jaggedSpire
18:54
No news from LWG today. I'm a bit sad :(
@milleniumbug ...or maybe a mis-click (but we're talking about meta, so I have to agree that the accusatory version is more attractive). :-)
@fredoverflow hhahaha
19:33
ok
so some of the people in 72A may have seen my package, but don't know where it is or if their other missing housemate has it
@fredoverflow Kind of reminds me of the time I got a speeding ticket. The police man talked about the class he'd taken where he learned to visually estimate cars' speeds. Couldn't remember how long the class was, what he did, what it took to pass, or anything else about it. I finally asked him: "Can you tell me anything about this class beyond 'I took it and I passed?'", and he still answered "No".
"Seen your package"? Were you drunk?
@Puppy :/
@fredoverflow My laptop.
@Puppy Oh that is not cool
that is fucking not cool
19:56
the whole fuckin' thing is not cool
it's a laptop, obviously it's gonna be hot :p
@JerryCoffin Haha.
@JerryCoffin Did you get a ticket solely based on his visual estimate?
simpletons
@Xeo using unity does not make you a gamedev.
Ven
Ven
@Morwenn they ded
@Ven So many sads.
Ven
Ven
@Morwenn the world can now be free of C++!
20:37
Ok, I undersand what's happening to my fold expressions proposal: last time EWG proposed to remove all the defaults but the full committee vote rejected it. This time EWG accepted my original solution which kept the defaults for operator&&, operator|| and operator, and this solution will now be presented to CWG and to the full committee vote.
So... it may be accepted on Friday or Saturday.
Ven
Ven
acclamé tel un héros
@slaphappy ping?
Xeo
Xeo
@Morwenn nice
they changed the title of the clit question :|
@Puppy The ticket was based on visual estimate and (at least supposedly) a radar gun. Unfortunately for him, they'd had a speed trap set up at that same location for a couple weeks or so, and a day or two before I'd seen him pull over somebody I was sure wasn't speeding--so I started carrying my logging GPS unit in the car, so I had a (literally) second-by-second log of my exact speed all the way from home to work, clearly showing that the speed he claimed I was traveling was false.
@milleniumbug lol
How much rep do you need to chat? 20?
right
apparently housemate #3 should be back by now so I am going to go and seek my package
good luck!
Can I get some upvotes for this guy so he can chat so that the discussion here can be moved to chat?
You can remove them again afterwards :^)
ADG
ADG
Hey!
Ven
Ven
hey
ADG
ADG
21:02
everybody seems fine! :)
nope housemate #3 not back yet
dude took my number this time so hopefully when he does get back he can call me
Housemate #3 is busy showing his new free laptop to all his friends :(
@melak47 No, because that's a terrible question.
ADG
ADG
21:03
OK guys, I use notepad++ for writing code, I need to use debugger, what IDE do you suggest?
I till now used gdb in terminal
he basically just dumped his error message and said "help plix"
@ADG I suggest leaving the bugs out to start with, rather than writing them, then removing them later.
doesn't have to be that question :D (though the other ones aren't better :/)
@ADG QtCreator is free and can work with gdb I believe. Also eclipse. Visual Studio can also sort of somewhat work with gdb now.
ADG
ADG
@JerryCoffin you are indeed correct but I wrote in Java before this and some concepts like pointers are new for me, so I prefer to follow the control using the debugger
@ADG gdb is fine if you actually know the commands. The biggest annoyance I have with IDEs is that they require setting up a project for debugging
21:08
@milleniumbug VS doesn't strictly require it, if you're debugging something built with VC++ :p
ADG
ADG
@milleniumbug I agree, but I don't much care now,..... though gdb commands not too hard though
@ADG I like Visual Studio's debugger, although the IDE has its annoyances, it's still the least bad I think
ADG
ADG
Thanks all of you...
CLion works fine for an IDE for Linux, but I haven't made the debugging work yet, also it's non-free.
@milleniumbug and requires CMake :/
ADG
ADG
21:10
I looked into it, but it looks it is not free for everyone.
Favorite interview questions for entry-level software engineers, anyone?
ADG
ADG
I thought they had free community editions with less but enough features like PyCharm for Python.
@melak47 I use CMake for the new projects I write, so it's not a problem for me
@caps "Are you sure you want to ruin your life this way? If so, what's wrong with you?"
ADG
ADG
Oh then it seems fine for the moment to use clion
21:13
@JerryCoffin lol
@ADG It's free for students BTW
yes but i m helpless can t do it and i have to give it tomorrow — Noobye 28 secs ago
awwwwww poor little guy
@ADG and you can surf the early access previews, but they expire quickly and I'm not sure if there's always one around
ADG
ADG
OK
Thanks!!!
@Borgleader @Nooble's friend
21:16
@ADG On Windows, Visual Studio. On Linux, there isn't any I'd consider good, but have found Geany semi-bearable (though definitely not a model of stability).
I could make a rating of C++ IDEs :D
Ven
Ven
loungesome-ides?
well, the loungesome-cpp inspired me to do it
@milleniumbug maybe more of a ranting? :D
I need to create a method for rating an IDE. Maybe I'll open Boost.Hana, and try to use autocomplete and refactoring on some functions.
IOW I need IDE killer-projects
21:23
@milleniumbug You could, but it wouldn't mean much. Opinions just vary too widely for reviews to mean much. Feature lists (for example) are almost meaningless, because most of what matters to people ends up being far too "small" of differences to show up in feature lists at all.
I agree, feature lists are useless
@milleniumbug I'd submit void foo(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)(void (*f)()))))))))))))))))))))))))))));, but that's only a compiler killer :p
My idea was to open a project on all of them, and try to use autocomplete. Then write a text description on how relevant the listed functions were, or if the match is fuzzy or not and so on
For example, if it lists private member functions outside of a class, it's less useful than the one which doesn't
that's not strictly true
those member functions can still be found by the compiler
@milleniumbug Nota bene: friends
21:28
and would it be more or less confusing if it would only show the private members in say a friend context :p
If I can't call them in the code I write, then it's useless to suggest them to me
or at least, don't put them on top
@milleniumbug There are ways to bend, break, and abuse encapsulation.
@milleniumbug Well, that's just the thing- you can call them. It just won't compile afterwards.
@milleniumbug hey whaddya know, VS actually does that
VS clearly distinguishes private and public overloads IIRC
21:32
yeah that's what I meant.
if it's private it hides it
if I'm in a friend class, it shows it as private
I don't think it hides it, it just makes them clearly probably not what you wanted
Ven
Ven
@milleniumbug hahahhahahaha sounds amazing :D
@Puppy see
but does it exhibit the same behaviour with member functions
21:39
I guess I'll use 1.) single 1000 line file 2.) a medium sized project that doesn't use much templates (maybe Qt?) 3.) Macro-infested code 4.) medium sized project that uses Boost 5.) Boost.Hana
I mean, overloads.
e.g. private void f(), public void f(int)
@milleniumbug How about a >10000LOC file?
@Puppy those show up under the same x until you get to the x(
yep
and it doesn't hide it even if it's private an non-friend. ok
21:41
@набиячлэвэлиь the first is supposed to be a baseline on how the IDE handles non-project C++ files, not an endurance test
Ven
Ven
@milleniumbug I have a very good idea: try the .net clr "gc.hpp" file, it's 35k lines long ;D
ADG
ADG
I tried CLion, it works great, since I am student, I'll be using it for learning!
Though I am pretty unsure about a specific pointer thing.
@ADG have fun
at least while you can
ADG
ADG
void insert_list(list **l, item_type x)
{
list *p; /* temporary pointer */
p = malloc( sizeof(list) );
p->item = x;
p->next = *l;
*l = p;
}
... I wonder what do they wish to say by using so many *'s?
21:56
@milleniumbug QtCreator sucks at 3, 4 and 5.
whoever "they" are, shoot them and find somebody who actually knows what the fuck they're doing
@ADG oh right, that's universities' idea of how C++ works
Qt IDE sometimes crashes when confronted with certain C++ constructs.
ADG
ADG
@milleniumbug what is .... C++ works?
@ADG whoops, I accidentally a word here
3
21:58
discord.gg/0oF7WvtiGICd6cpU is the chat where cool people hang out
10
👀
Ven
Ven
no it's not
yes it is
It's where the trolls go after they join the room
Ven
Ven
@ADG hahahahaha not even checking malloc's return value oh god

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