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sbi
12:37 AM
@Xaade Isn't "a reasonable person that hacks an account" an oxymoron?
@jweyrich That's true for his private rooms. SO is held by a commercial company, though, and they get to decide who's allowed to come in and have to give no reason if they don't want to.
 
1:27 AM
Ha ha ha. So, I created an event, "C++ IS AWESOME" that takes place in this room every day. Not only does that make "C++ IS AWESOME" appear at the top of chat.stackoverflow.com, but registering for the event sends an e-mail confirming that "C++ IS AWESOME"
@Xaade When I was in college, a friend of mine who was a year ahead of me graduated and got a job in IT. He discovered I was first on the network admin's "people I watch" list. I'm not entirely sure why, but it might have to do with the fact that I used AB-CD-EF-AB-CD-EF as my MAC address for a while.
 
user379888
1:59 AM
Hi all
 
user379888
Can anyone help me out with the concept of stack and heap
 
user379888
Which one is bigger?
 
2:13 AM
@fahad Usually stacks (plural because there is usually one per thread not one per process) are limited to a few megabytes at most, which is why large objects should be allocated on the heap, which is generally quite large.
 
user379888
@JamesMcNellis: And at the back-end aren't they the same memory?The RAM?
 
@fahad Yes. They are both backed by RAM (or a pagefile)
 
user379888
@JamesMcNellis:Can you explain the phrase"one per thread"
 
@fahad Every thread has its own stack.
 
user379888
@JamesMcNellis:So what happens when you run out of Stack(stack-overflow)?Is it something compiler dependent?
 
2:25 AM
@fahad The behavior is undefined, but generally your program will crash (on a modern desktop or server OS) or you may start overwriting data in the heap (on some small embedded OSes) or something else might happen. Generally nothing good happens.
On Windows, you get a structured exception (not a C++ exception; they are different) that you can handle (sort of; it's complicated).
 
user379888
Your not talking about exception handling in C++?
 
3:29 AM
@fahad Windows has its own exception model, called Structured Exception Handling (SEH), which is distinct from any language-specific exception models (like C++ exceptions).
 
 
2 hours later…
5:56 AM
sup
 
6:08 AM
@wilhelmtell A message from some guy named wilhelmtell that just says "sup", that's what's up [above this post in the chat log].
 
lol
just learnt that c++0x has cbegin() and cend() in containers.
find it funny.
i suppose they're there because of auto.
suddenly auto isn't that cool anymore.
lol
 
I like the c{begin,end} functions. They make adding constness easier.
 
6:31 AM
Anybody else here participatin in the LSE Millennium dress rehersal?
:)
 
Woohoo LSD!
 
LOL, I think your participating in something entirely different there, @James.
 
Well, this is the west coast...
 
Or are you posting from your phone while driving on Lake Shore Drive really fast?
 
I've never actually been to Chicago.
Well, I've been to the airport, but that doesn't count...
 
6:38 AM
Well, you should. Let me know if you do & I'll buy you a beer.
 
Ha. Ok.
(Of course, the same goes if you ever find yourself in Seattle!)
 
6:56 AM
9
Q: Loosely coupled implicit conversion

ltjaxImplicit conversion can be really useful when types are semantically equivalent. For example, imagine two libraries that implement a type identically, but in different namespaces. Or just a type that is mostly identical, except for some semantic-sugar here and there. Now you cannot pass one type ...

geez, using kernel headers on user-space applications makes my life miserable.
@sbi oh sure. I meant service cut by the ISP. E.g., when they detect illegal activities from your computer/network.
 
I understand the what XOR does. But I am unable to understand how XOR is resulting answer to stackoverflow.com/questions/4772561/… ? Could someone explain?
 
7:16 AM
@Mahesh say you have a=[1,1,2,2,3,3,9,4,4]. x=a[1], then the loop will do this: x ^ 1 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 3 ^ 3 ^ 9 ^ 4 ^ 4. Since 1 ^ 1 == 0, 2 ^ 2 == 0, ... then what is left?
 
@jweyrich - I was individually thinking of each loop result. And how magical to get answer at the end. If I write as you said, it is clear.
 
 
4 hours later…
user379888
10:51 AM
Hi
 
user379888
Why do we have to provide function prototypes?I mean I do not need to give a prototype when I place the function definition before main(),but if I place the definition after main(),prototype becomes necessary.Why is that so?
 
@fahad In C++ a function prototype is always necessary before a function is called. It enables overload resolution to work and the appropriate argument conversions to be done. A function definition (in C++) always includes a prototype.
 
user379888
@CharlesBailey:You means that even if I am giving the definition before main(),I am still giving its prototype(once).But when I define it after main(),I will have to give the prototype twice
 
@fahad You have to have a prototype visible where the function is called and the function, if used, has to have a definition. You can do that any way you want.
 
user379888
11:08 AM
Thanks
 
12:03 PM
Oh dear, there are now two Alf P. Steinbach's on SO.
2
 
sbi
@CharlesBailey Wow. Did @Alf fuck up? <shouting> Alf, you are supposed to give your sockpuppet account a different name, than the original one! </shouting>
 
12:19 PM
can anyone sort of merge my SO accounts? OpenID is down so had to create new account
hey, i'm me!
i just don't look like me!
 
yeah
I'm sure
 
@user594904 I don't trust you; what have you done with the real Alf?
@user594904 I think you need to email team@stackoverflow.com and see if they can help you.
You can (and should) add an alternative openid to your account in cast of emergencies.
 
Sorry if that sounded like telling someone who's just lost all his data that he should implement a good backup strategy.
 
@CharlesBailey "keyboard not found, press F9 to continue" (old jungle proverb)
 
12:31 PM
When I saw "Cheers and hth.," I though it might be Alf.
 
I just get Problem loading page at OpenId
tracing the connection it hops through some 25 machines, not exactly normal
C:\test> tracert myopenid.com

Tracing route to myopenid.com [67.137.230.67]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    86 ms    99 ms    99 ms  dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.1]
  2    22 ms    21 ms    22 ms  s22-00001.dsl.no.powertech.net [77.40.
  3    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  s02b02.no.powertech.net [195.159.88.82
  4    19 ms    18 ms    18 ms  te1-8.210.ccr01.osl01.atlas.cogentco.c
  5    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  te0-0-0-5.ccr22.ham01.atlas.cogentco.c
  6    44 ms    43 ms    44 ms  te0-0-0-3.mpd22.ams03.atlas.cogentco.c
@sbi Ah, thanks! I didn't think of that. Grumble...
 
I use Google account, personally
 
sbi
1:13 PM
@AlfPSteinbach Don't you worry. Posting random pictures only mildly connected to the discussion at hand definitely identified you as The Real Alf(TM).
@AlfPSteinbach Is your OpenID provider hosted in Egypt? If so, then I have bad some news for you...
 
lol
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach I'd ask this in the tavern or wherever the SO gods hang out. And preferably not on a Saturday. Anyway, since you asked here and now: If I was you, I'd flag a random posting of mine asking a mod for help. (I'd probably also give a valid email address.)
@AlfPSteinbach Well, you obviously already fixed that... :)
Oh, no! Now you're back from "userXXXX" to @Alf!
 
1:49 PM
well, monday. meanwhile, "no nooo the standard is incorrect!" :-), stackoverflow.com/questions/4836596/c-default-constructor/…
 
@AlfPSteinbach Oh dear, oh dear.
 
2:50 PM
oh my there are two of me here
 
This is even more confusing than before.
 
that's imposssssssssibul!
 
i wonder, how smart does one have to be to work for Google?
 
sbi
3:34 PM
@AlfPSteinbach Well, obviously you don't have to be able to deal with two instances of the very same person. <considers/> That doesn't strike me as a common job requirement anyway, though. :)
 
@sbi Should AlfPSteinbach be implemented as a singleton?
 
no
 
it helped to have a second instance, but now SO directs Google-verified login to that other me, and it confuses the two (like presenting contradictory rep info in same page).
but i'm thinking seriously about thinking about google work. just because i've been jobless so long in norway that even Opera (walking distance from where I live) wouldn't have me. I thought interview went fine but HR said they could choose from best people around the world. But Christmas I got second recruiter mail from google, about perhaps working in Switzerland. so.
 
3:54 PM
man, that dead kitten keeps coming up as flagged
 
sbi
@DeadMG Does it? It doesn't for me. :)
 
@AlfPSteinbach I'd at least give it a shot. My oldest brother works for Google, and he's not any smarter than I am (at least according to me!) Besides, all the people I know who've worked in Switzerland loved it.
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach I was wondering why you were always online. Why didn't you have a job? Don't you need the money?
 
@sbi i'm guessing that Norwegian companies HR departments think my background can't be true. i'm beginning to need the moneys, yes. :-)
 
4:20 PM
I think the c++ standards committee hates us. programmers who actually have to use this language.
i mean, how does one sanely implements copy constructors, without resorting to pimpl all the bloody time. The only way to avoid writing tonnes of boilerplate code all the time is to fall into the terrible syntax trap that is the stl.
 
@ChrisBecke what connection do you see between copy constructors and pimpl idiom?
 
@AlfPSteinbach well, I think you have basically 4 choices when faced with implementing a copy constructor on a class:
1. rely on the default implementations binary copy. which is never correct unless every resource used by the class is wrapped in a smart ptr.
2. make it an unimplemented private method to force errors if someone tries to use it.
3. make it do a deep copy of the other object, which is usually costly, so instead of passing objects around ppl pass const &'s instead.
4. make it copy a pointer to a private object that is ref counted or something.
 
@ChrisBecke The default implementation is member-wise copy, not binary copy. It should work for most members. Any members that it doesn't work for, you can wrap up in a managing class so that you genuinely only have to implement copy construction manually when you actually have something special to do. You shouldn't have to write tons of boiler plate.
 
True it is a member wise copy. I always think of it as a binary copy, as it has a nasty habit of copying raw pointers that arnt wrapped in containers that, themselves, don't implement proper copy construction semantics.
 
sbi
@ChrisBecke Stick to the principle of each class either managing a single resource (one dynamically allocated object), or containing several of those resource managing objects.
Never write a class that contains more than one manually managed resource, never make a class managing one such resource do anything else on top of that.
If you stick to this, C++ won't let you down.
 
4:32 PM
Basically, i need to buckle up and accept the stl. But I think that I'm quite stuck on stage 4 - depression.
New c++ programmers go through the 5 stages of grief I think before embracing stl.
 
sbi
@ChrisBecke That's only if they learned C++ the wrong wyy, the C way.
 
agreed
 
stage 1 is denial. Theyre introduced to c++, as this cool language, that is C, with classes. So they write code like this:

void Foo(Bar* b){
MyClass* p = new MyClass;
p->DoSomething(b);
delete p;
}
 
I only went through grief after my first overly ambitious projects completely failed :P
 
which is clearly wrong. which leads to stage 2. anger. they learn about exceptions and try to dealwith making their code exception safe.
void Foo(Bar* b){
 
sbi
4:35 PM
I stumbled into a copy of Accelerated C++ when I was already considering myself a C++ professional. (That is, I had more than 5 years of experience.) I read it because I was teaching C++ and was interested in their approach, but that approach taught me more about how to use C++ than any of the other books before. (And I was already doing template-meta programming by then.)
 
MyClass* p=0;
try {
p= new MyClass;
p->DoSomething(b);
delete p;
} catch(...){
delete p;
throw;
}
}
 
sbi
@ChrisBecke The main problem with this (besides the fact that the object should be on stack) is that it creates an object when all it needs is an algorithm. Algorithms are implemented in functions, not in objects.
 
std::unique_ptr ftw
 
sbi
void Foo(Bar& b)
{
  DoSomething(b);
}
 
stage 3 is bargaining. they try and avoid this mess by resoring to only using stack allocated objects, and passing everything by ref:
void Foo(Bar const& b){
MyClass p;
p.DoSomething(b);
}
stage 4 - depression. they accept that the stack just inst big enough. So they resort to pimpl.
void Foo(Bar* b){
MyClass p;
p.DoSomething(b);
}
 
4:39 PM
uh
 
{where MyClass now contains a MyClassImpl* }
 
both of those codes do pretty much the same thing
PIMPL is a disgusting pattern
 
@ChrisBecke this sounds very depressing. but be happy! if you follow sbi's advice, it all works out very automatically. :-)
 
I have never used it and hopefully, never will do
 
sbi
@DeadMG Yep, pimple patterns are disgusting. :)
 
4:41 PM
stage 5 - acceptance. embrace the stl.
void Foo(Bar* b){
std::auto_ptr<MyClass> p(new MyClass);
p->DoSomething(b);
}
 
@ChrisBecke: Except that's still disgusting code
you created an object for the calling of just one function, and on top of that, you wasted a dynamic allocation on a static lifetime object
unless MyClass is physically too big to fit on the stack, which is a rarity
 
the point of sample code is to ... concentrate it down to its essence.
the function Foo stands in for something a lot more complicated.
 
@ChrisBecke The code you call "bargaining" is OK.
 
that does need to create and use a MyClass for more methods than just DoSomething.
 
you still wasted a dynamic allocation on a static lifetime object
 
4:43 PM
Perhaps Foo is several functions on a class. The idea is a simple presentation of an idea without resorting to verycomplicated code.
but
perhaps the dynamic object has an array thats 20Mb in size.
so it needs to be dynamic so it fits in memory on a typical 32bit system.
 
ok
so why not just use it in the first place?
 
@ChrisBecke Use a std::vector for a large array (or mostly any array).
 
all you've done is show us some code, and then gone, oh wait but actually there's a dozen factors behind the scenes that I haven't shown you
either show us the full code, or GTFO
 
I detect an army of straw men lining up.
 
sigh. Again. missing the point. "MyClass" was dynamically allocated to represent that a static allocation was not a good representation of what it was doing.
 
4:46 PM
then show us the full point
 
@CharlesBailey I think it's genuine grief here. Nobody's made clear to Chris that e.g. std::vector etc. solve these things.
 
if you have a problem, with some code, then you need to post a full independently compilable sample
which demonstrates the problem at hand
 
'lo!
 
@ChrisBecke Head on over to codereview.stackexchange.com if you have a genuine problem.
 
the real question is
 
4:49 PM
the "problem at hand" isnt a problem. its just a demonstration of the process that c++ programmers have to go through while learning their craft. If you can imagine that, for a moment, by "void Foo()" I actually meant:
class Foo {
MyClass* p;
Bar* b;
public:
Foo(Bar*);
m1();
m2{};
};
of course, that class is how my phase 1 programmer would write it :P.
 
no, that's a process you go through if you had a teacher who actually taught you C when you weren't looking
 
but my example code would be horribly complicated If I duplicated that for each exposition
 
if I taught C++, I would teach RAII and ownership before dynamic resources
 
now, if a teacher had ever taught me c++ things might be different.
 
yes, but you're overgeneralizing here
it's true that if you learn C++ from scratch, it can be very hard
 
4:52 PM
I think I might be able to cough up examples of using some other languages in Incorrect Ways.
 
but then, if I tried to pick up assembler from scratch no instructions, it would also be very hard, and if I wanted to pick up mechanical engineering or advanced mathematics or pretty much any reasonably difficult topic, without any teaching, then it would also be very difficult
this problem isn't specific to C++, it exists because you tried to do something very difficult with no instruction
not that I'm criticising you, since I did the same thing :P
 
I think the problem is rather specific to c++. because, like all languages, formal instruction is not the default way that people get exposed to it.
I know many people who were out of varsity well before c++ was even standardized.
 
@ChrisBecke t'is the most difficult programming language after PL/1
 
I'm giving a look at Haskell in these days, and there's a thing that's fascinating me so much: it's like if every function is a template by default, and every type is a template parameter (with concepts on!)...
 
and others who had other routes into programming, via script languages or some such, who are now involved in educating themselves
perhaps doing some courses
 
4:56 PM
I disagree
I think that most programmers get tuition
 
the problem is, almost every programmer that skips the formal route, starts with my phase 1 example. Because thats how almost every other "simple" language works
does it matter what the ratios are?
 
code that doesn't respect ownership of types or instances is just as bad in Java or C# or Lua as in C++
and of course it matters
 
even with M$'s CLI abominations gaining traction, c++ is hugely popular still
 
if 99% of all C++ programmers are taught it, then
oh, I see
 
I want a C++ with haskell's type system!
 
4:58 PM
you can't treat Microsoft rationally like a normal company pushing their own ideas, or consider that managed code might actually be better or superior for some purposes
it's just Micro$oft, as if making money is some kind of bad thing, instead of the entire point of the world's economy
 
i certainly expect them to try and make money. its their duty to their shareholders.
 
I see
 
what bugs about CLI are the number of other people who seem to treat the situation like MS is the alturisitic giver of stability.
 
right
and that's Microsoft's problem why?
 
its not.
 
5:00 PM
they deliver a great product, and I for one feel like they do an incredible job of backwards compatibility
then why the M$?
 
because we mustn't for get that their motives are not alturistic. the CLI is their ... bait as it were. to get our lockin to their products.
their very good products.
but their products that come, from one company
a. who's financial goals might not align with "ours" forever.
and (b) who might not be around forever.
Wait. Companies like Lehman brothers have been around for >100 years. of course we can trust MS to not make a financial blunder
oh wait. Lehman didn;t make it to 120
I don't want to be on MS failing any time soon
but its not a guarantee that they won't
anyway. this is drifting all very off topic
without resorting to the stl
or the pimpl idiom
what other sane way is there of dealing with copy constructors, to achieve a simple pass by value semantic with a designed class.
 
coffee!
 
that is a very good answer.
but. technically, it doesn;t solve the basic problem of. How to design a class so that consumers of it can go:
void Func(Foo f);
Foo a;
Foo b = a;
Func(a);
I do like my c++ to be simple. Because simple is hard to get wrong. And nothing is simpler that pass-by-value semantics as its entirely unsurprising.
 
programming isn't simple
and the CLI isn't locked in to Microsoft- you can get .NET for Linux under Mono
it's true that alternative implementations are rarer than the JVM, but Microsoft does not own the .NET infrastructure
 
no. but it should be about solving the actual problem. too much of a c++ programmers time is spent solving the meta problem of how to use the classes that will solve the problem.
 
5:13 PM
it doesn't even own C#, it's an ISO Standard these days
what I would say is
in your class, you make a 20MB array, and if it's too big for my stack, then it's my problem to allocate it on the heap and handle that
because then, I have the choice of ramping up my stack size in the linker settings
or allocating it on the heap
the trouble with doing that is that you assume that in no case will your code be used where a 20MB stack allocation is acceptable
but in reality, I can just alter my linker settings to make it acceptable if I like, or in five years a 50MB stack is standard
 
sbi
A heaven-sent:
Posted by Jeff Atwood on January 27th, 2011

Google has ruined search for everyone.

By that I mean they have done it so long, so fast, and so well — despite the recent speed bump — that users simply expect everyone’s search to be as good as Google’s. And that is … challenging. Particularly considering Google is an enormous company now, with server farms roughly the size of the state of Pennsylvania.

How’s a little startup supposed to compete with that? Or should we even try to, really? From the beginning, Joel and I said that the de facto Stack Overflow home page was a web search. So why, exactly, do we need to dump tons of engineering resources into creating a super-uber-mega excellent search facility, again? …

 
it's been linked repeatedly before
 
@ChrisBecke @sbi gave you good advice, but perhaps too abstract. so, here's the thing: don't have more than 1 (one) raw pointer as data member in a class, and preferably have none. ditto for handles, etc. it's more restrictive than absolutely necessary. but once you've seen how that simplifies things, you can relax the rule.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Are you referring to that blog post I linked to? Because it has only been published this Thursday.
 
I've still seen it linked here several times
just pin it and leave it there
 
sbi
5:26 PM
@DeadMG You might have seen the ones that said 51% and 61%.
 
nope
definitely that one
 
oh give up on the 20Mb thing. that was just for the 5 stages of grief :P
@alf - sbi did give good advice.
 
no, I'm not gonna give up, you're trying to solve a problem that you should leave to the class user to solve
 
sbi
0
Q: Can we have a notification for new features, please?

sbiA few regulars in the C++ chat room discovered yesterday that what they thought was done by a rogue room owner, was in fact done automagically by the system. This isn't the first time something like this happens to me. Many of the new features of Stack Overflow I only learned through other users ...

 
I have certainly come to realize that it is impossible to write correct c++ code that manipulates more than one raw pointer or os handle per object, without filling out every method with lots of ugly try / catch logic.
im still trying to see how to avoid pimpl when implementing copy ctor's tho
 
5:34 PM
what are the class's data members?
 
Interesting factoid: boost::shared_ptr uses compiler declared copy constructor, copy assignment operator and destructor. It surprised me when I found out.
 
well, it must be user-declared at some point
they likely just have a data member or private base class which does it
 
the data members? OS handles. pointers to DIBSections so on
 
If you have something like an OS handle, then you can't un-pimpl that, the OS likely provides some facility for copying them
if you're implementing a copy constructor for something with a C-style interface, you need to look at that interface for how you're going to copy it
 
and, quite often. references to objective-c object instances.
 
5:39 PM
no experience with those, but again, it's up to your objective-c interop code to handle that
 
you should try
or rather
you shouldn't
objective c is a disturbing language to c++ programmers
 
pretty happy with C++ personally
 
mmm
 
it offers everything I need, except for all those times when the Standard writers all decided to take LSD when writing those sections
 
i was pretty happy with abstinence too. until i found the laternative.
 
5:41 PM
lol
 
im not saying its a brilliant language.
 
@DeadMG boost::shared_ptr's data members are a raw pointer and a reference count object that contains a reference (in the informal sense) to the allocated object with appropriate type information and an appropriate deleter. It's quite neat.
 
but objective-c is... like a religious person finding proof there is no god.
i was happy with c++ too, until I was forced to do cross platform dev.
 
fortunately, those other platforms are something that I don't need to bother with
 
thats nice for you.
(un)fortunately - if I want to keep my job - I need to get my code working on Apple Macs, probably Ubuntu, and then the iPhone, iPad and Anderoid phones and tablets too for good measure. In addition to windows based PCs.
which goes a little way to explaining my disdain for MS's CLR
I am a c++ fan tho, because c++ compilers exist on every conceivable target I might want to consider.
Sure, lots (like the Android) "prefer" if you write apps in Java.
But, as someone with an environmental conscience ... Java is out.
if for no other reason than Java solutions use 30% more power than equivalent C++ solutions. which means theyre 30% slower, or require 30% more cooling power in your data center.
So, as C++ devs, we can all be proud to be on the forefront of green computing.
 
5:58 PM
greenness doesn't really bothe rme
I don't have any significant power to impact the environment n anyw ay
 
if you say it. it must be true.
@sbi: while(true){
delete new Kitten;
}
 
 
1 hour later…
sbi
7:26 PM
@ChrisBecke Murderer!
 
7:46 PM
on a similar subject. my cellphone ringtone is of someone saying they don't believe in fairies.
 
sbi
7:57 PM
Since currently it is quite quiet (SCNR) here and I don't run the risk of disturbing people too much in the middle of whatever they're discussing, I would like to seize the opportunity to create another version of my newbie hints. If you're brooding over an important subject you need to discuss in the next 15mins, now is the moment to holler to make me stop.
 
If I had a class, something like this:
class Foo {
operator char const*(){...}
operator char*(){...}
};
class Bar {
Bar(const char*){}
};
Why, when I do the following, would c++ choose the non const version of the conversion operator?
Foo foo;
Bar bar(foo);
 
char* const != const char*
 
sbi
@ChrisBecke If you have a multiline message you can click on "fixed font". Please do so.
@DeadMG I only see a char const* in there, which is the same as const char*.
 
@DeadMG I never have a char* const
 
sbi
@ChrisBecke Yes.
 
8:01 PM
allthough I am amused that I did manage to rotate the const & char
now, conversion operators seem to be a somewhat special case of class method, given I know of no other method that can be overloaded only by return type.
but I still did expect it to prefer operator const char*()
 
if it's the exact match, that's what I would expect
 
then my copy of GCC is playing silly buggers with me
 
8:45 PM
Can anyone recommend a good book on implementing a graph and other data structures in C++?
 
9:13 PM
@ChrisBecke You only have non-const conversion operators, one to const char* and one to char*. When trying to initialize a Bar from a Foo, the conversion to a const char* results in a preferable conversion sequence because the resulting type is an exact match for the Bar constructor whereas the one to char* would require a qualification adjustment.
 
@Charles: That's why he doesn't understand that it chose char*, not const char*.
 
sbi
10:05 PM
Ok, so without asking now, lest I stir up a new conversation: I'll create another version of my newbie hints now. This might take a few minutes. It will take much longer if you manage to slip a message in between.
 
@DeadMG: Then what was @sbi saying 'yes' to?
 
@Charles: The hell should I know?
 
sbi
If you want to ask a C++ question here, you are welcome to do so, although you probable will have a better audience at Stack Overflow proper. Posting a link to your question at Stack Overflow might actually give you better results. Users are here to chat and that includes off-topic subjects as well as the outcome of the standardization process and anything in between. Make sure you follow Roger's advice.
You might want to read the rest of this little FAQ before you start typing messages.
You can edit your messages for 2mins. Click the v arrow appearing left of it when you hover your mouse over it. Also, cursor up will edit your last message, Enter confirms, Escape cancels this.
Markdown sort of works here, like in comments, but fails for multi-line messages (add a newline by pressing Shift+Enter). Apparently, that's by design. Code can be formatted using backticks or by indenting it four spaces. There's also a "fixed font" button when you start a new line in your messages (by pressing Shift+Enter).
Links to specific web pages (many pages on all of the SE sites, Wikipedia, Twitter,...) will inline an excerpt of the page, when they are the only text in a message.
Mentioning others using the familiar @syntax will notify them - auditively if they are in the chat, and through the StackExchenge inbox feature across the whole SE network. The UI will suggest matches after you type @ and the first two letters. You can cycle between the suggestions using the tab key, accept by entering space, followed by your message.
Reply to specific messages by clicking on the down-and-right arrow that appears at the right of a message when you hover over it (or by clicking the v arrow as mentioned above). This will start the message with :NNNNNN, where NNNNNN is the message's ID (which you can also find in the permalink to the message.)
You can spend a limited number of stars per day on messages you like. Recently starred messages are shown on the right, the more stars a message has the longer it stays there. If there's a number right of a star, it indicates the number of people (>1) who have starred it.
An expanded version of these first hint can be found at the FAQ, linked to from the "faq" link at the lower right corner of the chat's browsers window. (A small popup window showing just the formatting help of the FAQ can be invoked through the "help" link at the same place.)
If you wonder why we have so many room owners: This room was originally created by one or more users who later disappeared, so that it became orphaned and a new C++ room was setup by other users. A moderator objected against two C++ rooms. He transferred ownership of the older C++ room to those who had created the new room (which then was left to die).
Since then it is somewhat of a room policy to turn regulars into owners (and, of course, to remove those no longer here from the list of owners), to prevent this from happening again.
Room owners can also pin messages to that area. The message you clicked on which linked to this was pinned.) (Pinned messages are automagically unpinned after 14 days.)
Dammit, that 1sec delay destroyed the order again.
Got to try again...
 
@sbi wow you did quite a job posting that :)
 
sbi
@Tony Didn't work, though.
 
10:10 PM
Why not? it's all there no?
or did I just ruin it?
 
sbi
No, as I wrote, I pasted this faster than i was allowed to post messages, and when I realized this and clicked "retry", it would append a message that belongs into the middle...
Ok, please stand back while I try again...
If you want to ask a C++ question here, you are welcome to do so, although you probable will have a better audience at Stack Overflow proper. Posting a link to your question at Stack Overflow might actually give you better results. Users are here to chat and that includes off-topic subjects as well as the outcome of the standardization process and anything in between.
Whether you ask here or there, make sure you follow Roger's advice so that it is actually answerable by others.
You might want to read the rest of this little FAQ before you start typing messages.
You can edit your messages for 2mins. Click the v arrow appearing left of it when you hover your mouse over it. Also, cursor up will edit your last message, Enter confirms, Escape cancels this.
Links to specific web pages (many pages on all of the SE sites, Wikipedia, Twitter,...) will inline an excerpt of the page, when they are the only text in a message.
Reply to specific messages by clicking on the down-and-right arrow that appears at the right of a message when you hover over it (or by clicking the v arrow as mentioned above). This will start the message with :NNNNNN, where NNNNNN is the message's ID (which you can also find in the permalink to the message.)
Uh oh, I already blew it again...
Dammit!
 
gg op no re
 
sbi
Ok, here we go again, I'll try to be slower now, as I think the chat is deliberately slowing me down. Please stand back once more...
If you want to ask a C++ question here, you are welcome to do so, although you probable will have a better audience at Stack Overflow proper. Posting a link to your question at Stack Overflow might actually give you better results. Users are here to chat and that includes off-topic subjects as well as the outcome of the standardization process and anything in between.
Whether you ask here or there, make sure you follow Roger's advice so that it is actually answerable by others.
You can edit your messages for 2mins. Click the v arrow appearing left of it when you hover your mouse over it. Also, cursor up will edit your last message, Enter confirms, Escape cancels this.
Markdown sort of works here, like in comments, but fails for multi-line messages (add a newline by pressing Shift+Enter). Apparently, that's by design. Code can be formatted using backticks or by indenting it four spaces. There's also a "fixed font" button when you start a new line in your messages (by pressing Shift+Enter).
Mentioning others using the familiar @syntax will notify them - auditively if they are in the chat, and through the StackExchenge inbox feature across the whole SE network. The UI will suggest matches after you type @ and the first two letters. You can cycle between the suggestions using the tab key, accept by entering space, followed by your message.
Ok, I give up. No chance now, it's slowing me down to the point where it takes like 5secs until I'm allowed to retry.
 
just post it somewhere else and make the link there
 
sbi
@DeadMG You have a suggestion?
Mentioning others using the familiar @syntax will notify them - auditively if they are in the chat, and through the StackExchenge inbox feature across the whole SE network. The UI will suggest matches after you type @ and the first two letters. You can cycle between the suggestions using the tab key, accept by entering space, followed by your message.
 
10:16 PM
sure
 
sbi
Ha, earlier messages still trickling in...
 
make it a post somewhere and then link to it rather than pasting it in chat
 
@DeadMG that might work better I think
 
sbi
@DeadMG Me asking for a suggestion referred to that "somewhere".
 
oh
meta, maybe?
 
sbi
10:17 PM
Would be deleted.
(afk)
 
sbi
10:35 PM
Ok, I'll have another go at this. Sorry for the mess, I'll try to be carefully slow now...
If you want to ask a C++ question here, you are welcome to do so, although you probable will have a better audience at Stack Overflow proper. Posting a link to your question at Stack Overflow might actually give you better results. Users are here to chat and that includes off-topic subjects as well as the outcome of the standardization process and anything in between.
Wherever you ask, make sure you follow Roger's advice so that your question is actually answerable by others.
You can edit your messages for 2mins. Click the v arrow appearing left of it when you hover your mouse over it. Also, cursor up will edit your last message, Enter confirms, Escape cancels this.
Markdown sort of works here, like in comments, but fails for multi-line messages (add a newline by pressing Shift+Enter). Apparently, that's by design. Code can be formatted using backticks or by indenting it four spaces. There's also a "fixed font" button when you start a new line in your messages (by pressing Shift+Enter).
Links to specific web pages (many pages on all of the SE sites, Wikipedia, Twitter,...) will inline an excerpt of the page, when they are the only text in a message.
Mentioning others using the familiar @syntax will notify them - auditively if they are in the chat, and through the StackExchenge inbox feature across the whole SE network. The UI will suggest matches after you type @ and the first two letters. You can cycle between the suggestions using the tab key, accept by entering space, followed by your message.
Reply to specific messages by clicking on the down-and-right arrow that appears at the right of a message when you hover over it (or by clicking the v arrow as mentioned above). This will start the message with :NNNNNN, where NNNNNN is the message's ID (which you can also find in the permalink to the message.)
You can spend a limited number of stars per day on messages you like. Recently starred messages are shown on the right, the more stars a message has the longer it stays there. If there's a number right of a star, it indicates the number of people (>1) who have starred it.
Room owners can also pin messages to that area. The message you clicked on which linked to this was pinned.) (Pinned messages are automagically unpinned after 14 days.)
An expanded version of these first hint can be found at the FAQ, linked to from the "faq" link at the lower right corner of the chat's browsers window. (A small popup window showing just the formatting help of the FAQ can be invoked through the "help" link at the same place.)
If you wonder why we have so many room owners: This room was originally created by one or more users who later disappeared, so that it became orphaned and a new C++ room was setup by other users. A moderator objected against two C++ rooms. He transferred ownership of the older C++ room to those who had created the new room (which then was left to die).
Since then it is somewhat of a room policy to turn regulars into owners (and, of course, to remove those no longer here from the list of owners), to prevent this from happening again.
Ok, that's it! Thanks for keeping quiet that long!
 
you suck
 
sbi
Great, the old message still links to bookmark that was first deleted and then newly created under the old name chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/10/conversation/newbie-hints
@DeadMG Huh??
 
:P
ignore me
 
sbi
@DeadMG The user menu offers "ignore this user (everywhere)", but I'm not sure I want that.
But you are enigmatic (on top of being rude, that is).
 
it's a joke, but you would only understand it if you originated from the same household as me
making it rather un-funny
 
sbi
10:43 PM
@DeadMG Ah, Ok. <somewhat_relieved/>
 
10:58 PM
man
Direct3D is tough
 
11:42 PM
Hi all. Not sure how the chat works, but I would appreciate some help with doxygen (stackoverflow.com/questions/4840145/…).
Errr... seems like nobody's here :P
 
Hi there, this seems kind of quiet now. Sorry @Amir, but I cannot really answer your question. My experience with doxygen is quite limited.
 

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