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AHAHAHAHAHAH
With teh good patience
in all teh possible ways
possible ways
> tfw no way to use const char* to look up in std::map<std::string, ....>
lol
@TonyTheLion speaking of fabulous birds check out this pigeon followthecolours.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/…
(treron vernans)
nice bird
@ThePhD Compiles fine for me
@Puppy I was referring to avoiding the temporary std::string construction.
My profiler here is telling me that's actually one of the most costly things about this lookup process, and why it's not faster than lua altogether.
16:11
hello all
corner cases
@ThePracticalDev @petebratton It looks like they missed a corner case.
@ThePhD std::experimental::string_view
@набиячлэвэлиь std::not_useful_for_libraries::shit
@ThePhD It's fixed in C++14.
@ThePhD do you really need ordering? why not to use std::unordered_map<>?
@SashaMN That won't solve his problem in this case, as that's not fixed even in C++14
16:14
@Puppy I know, just mention
std::map is orders of magnitude faster in lookup than std::unordered_map for a very small number of elements (e.g., below at least 10,000).
ok guys
(Assuming your keys are easy to compare, like strings and integers)
I need to learn visual basic
use a custom allocator.
16:14
Strings are not easy to compare
it'll substantially improve the speed of both the map and the string construction.
@orlp Did a comparison and posted the coliru here at one point.
Also it really doesn't matter
@Mr.kbok researchers have found that the best way to learn visual basic is to play underrail
@CatPlusPlus @ThePhD this true
16:15
@AlexM. you know, I bought it yesterday
that's why I'm mentioning that
@AlexM. I feel like Telkitty was there.
user1804599
@TonyTheLion dat tool use
@TonyTheLion Nice OI
@ElimGarak OI?
16:20
@TonyTheLion Ahahah, my train of thought left the station without me. :D
@ThePhD That's gonna depend a lot on the implementation.
Gun b gud
16:28
Well.
After fixing that....
.. This framework is fast.
I mean, this framework is neckbreakingly fast.
There's probably only so many others things I could do to make it faster.
Guys I'm having these c++ errors and I'm not sure how to fix them. I'm relatively new to C++, I just need to get the build errors out so I can create an installer for this project (TortoiseSVN open source project)
well good luck with that
lol why good luck haha?
because it appears that you need it
true thanks
Ell
Ell
16:36
@ElimGarak lol
I think I know how to fix the first error but the second error is a mouthful
@KalaJ you want to ask it on the main site
he'll have the same zero luck there
why? :(
@KalaJ The folk in the C++ room will help you. We won't.
16:41
because you've asked a truly terrible question.
no reproduction, no details, nothing you've done to try and fix it yourself, no nothing really.
it's literally just "Here's my error, fix plix"
@Puppy yes but there it will be other people asking him things in the comments
nah, it'll just get nuked
okay instead of fix, help me understand... it seems to be a casting problem
as it should be
and that is a crazy cast
16:42
@KalaJ You seem to be under an assumption that I want to help you in any way at all. I do not.
that's ok, it's np
@набиячлэвэлиь that's funny to say when you're the only guy there :P
Puppy so helpful
well, and two more guys
Puppy's exactly as helpful as he desires to be
16:44
@Puppy ie not helpful at all in this case
which is exactly as much help as the questioner will and should get
well I guess, its not exactly a difficult problem to resolve if you understand some basics of programming
and C++
that is ultimately immaterial in this case
@KalaJ just ask on the main site
@Puppy so what is relevant then, as far as Puppy can see?
16:46
well let's see
I will in a bit, I figured out the first one (but I might have a circular dependency)
number one is always a very low expectation of return
if I help robot, he'll help me next time I have a question.
and the second one, I know I need it to cast it properly
@Puppy return for help given
the same is never true of random questiondumpers
they come, they ask, they leave.
16:46
yes that is a point
they don't even offer friendship or something else in return
user1804599
sub which(Str:D $name) {
    %*ENV<PATH>.split(':')
    .grep(:r & :d)
    .map(*.dir.first(:!d & :x & {.basename eq $name}))
    .first(*.defined);
}
user1804599
:D :D :D :D :D
and secondly
but sometimes you do have to be able to help someone and expect nothing in return
16:47
it's a truly terrible question in absolutely every way
@Puppy nudes 4 codes
I have no desire for nudes of random people
@Puppy yes its a bad question, easily answered with some Google-fu.
if they're hot they can send nudes to me
not really
his question was so bad, it's difficult to tell what should be Googled
16:48
something something conversions
see the real thing here is
it's obvious he didn't write that code.
so why is somebody with such exceedingly low C++ knowledge trying to maintain it?
to learn?
although it seems to be quite a steep learning curve
by and large, you can't learn from existing codebases in that way.
I used to think that mostly just applied to C++ but I think I'm concluding that it just plain doesn't work.
you need the original maintainer to explain decisions to you at the very minimum.
yes, you have a point
one which I won't argue, because I can see how it is valid
unless it was just a hello world app
16:51
thanks for explaining :)
oh and one last thing
I can help other people for no return, but that's the exception and only occurs when I and only I decide that it's warranted.
Understood
@ThePhD calculation of hash probably dominates
food please
where is my food
Sorry guys for the trouble, I was able to fix the errors :)
16:57
another excellent reason not to help you
@ThePhD up to 10000?
That's kinda surprising.
@StackedCrooked You ran the tests, y'know:
Sep 26 '15 at 2:47, by StackedCrooked
# size: 10,000,000. lookups: 10,000,000
creation_time=4801ms   lookup_time=215694us # std::unordered_set<long>
creation_time=10866ms lookup_time=344545us # std::set<long>
There's more there too, if you scroll down.
lol is said that?
From that message.
You need a truly huge unordered_set/map to get good traction (with something easy to hash/compare like integers).
@ThePhD However lookup times aren't much different.
17:01
o m g 1 3 6 u s
You know how much you can do in that time
100 set/gets with sol, 50+ custom function calls, etc...
`set.find(rand() % set.size()); // rand contaminates the results.. I'm stupid.
@ThePhD why not ms for both?
17:05
@JohanLarsson vOv
dog said?
I should use Google Benchmark for my next tests.
It allows for simple tests without having the compiler optimize everything away.
@StackedCrooked Use nonius
@StackedCrooked If the compiler can optimize it all away, that makes your benchmarks non-representative.
@StackedCrooked -O0
user1804599
you suck at links
you suck at .. something too
I code by the Peter Principle.
@StackedCrooked s/at.+/cock/
user1804599
@StackedCrooked LLVM beats your ass coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/4b9ff8b1816f23e0
17:14
She has such an amazing voice <3
^ Yesterday I discovered this.
Providing the compiler with a some extra information really helps the optimizer.
Written description of peanus
@JohanLarsson I can't arrange it horizontally in coliru :)
user1804599
17:16
@StackedCrooked Jij kunt ook niks.
user1804599
Loser.
food is here yay
@MadameElyse Pas op of ik bel je moeder.
and they gave me 3 pairs of chopsticks for some reason
17:17
@AlexM. classic
user1804599
Perl 6 is really nice.
I forgot to eat today and it is -15°C outside and 10 minute walk home.
@набиячлэвэлиь ramen and salmon maki rolls
Ell
Ell
I am looking forward to better APUs from amd
@JohanLarsson Is teleportation not an option?
user1804599
17:18
> my $s = all({$_ + 1}, {$_ * 2});
all(-> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|83910872) ... }, -> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|83910944) ... })
> my $x = $s(5);
all(6, 10)
> $x == 10;
all(False, True)
> !!($x == 10);
False
@набиячлэвэлиь What language is the teleporter written in?
user1804599
Perl 6.
@AlexM. just how much sushi did you order? :)
Don't trust it
@JohanLarsson Physical objects aren't written, dumb-dumb
17:20
oldschool
@melak47 Alex probably ordered a restaurant starter pack. :D
Pizza for me tonight, a bit tired of it, tho.
Chopsticks are cheap
chopsticks
@melak47 tiny portion of 6 tiny rolls
it's for later if I feel hungry at 4AM since no one does delivery then
user1804599
chop dicks
17:27
predictable
@AlexM. so then it must've been the family size ramen bucket
They're finally starting to retire old 747s.
rip cs_747
@AlexM. ayy, new avatar
@AlexM. what have you done with Rapptz?
17:35
yes, rapptz fans rejoyce!
@jaggedSpire he died in an xray accident
@AlexM. no! D:
Rapptz started a gang in Venezuela
Rapptz disappeared in the isoceles triangle.
Or got collected.
@ElimGarak those poor things
@AlexM. my meme
17:41
We should give a few to Bartek, he'd be happy to know that 200 km/h with a 747 is stall velocity.
@melak47 na it's regular ramen
maybe mistake
there were lots of separate things in the pack
they thought it was for more than 1 guy
just the ramen was split in 3 parts
@AlexM. It says much about your eating habits.
I don't eat a lot omg
I was joking :(
17:47
k :<
When I came from the movies tonight, I had to pee so much, had you given me a turbine, I would've provided sufficient power output to sustain a small african village for 3 minutes. We need to allocate more bladder volume for the modern human.
Ell
Ell
is this a repost? fossbytes.com/…
future intel & amd chips will only support windows 10
what a load of bollocks :V
@Ell ahahahahahahahah. hahah. ha. not funny.
Ell
Ell
also surely the title is the wrong way round
windows 10 will only support future amd & intel processors
@Ell Yes, but clickbait :D
17:57
Nice.
Ell
Ell
microsoft are terrible
Meanwhile, every other OS under the sun werks as intended.
Guess they're trying to murder Windows 7 and 8 now.
I like how the article doesn't provide any sources.
I don't really get it - what do they actually have to do to support older CPUs?
besides actively unsupporting them
Ell
Ell
17:58
@melak47 this is all
They're basically saying: We don't want to support your asses any more, Windows 10 is free, get on top of that shit.
Inside a month or two, Windows 10 will basically take over on the Steam HW survey. It's missing like 3% at the moment.
Ell
Ell
gamers love themselves some windows 7 though
I agree that they should kill Win7 and Win8 (precisely because of the difficult-to-change folks), but I would prefer if they just said that up front.
Wait
@ElimGarak WHat's the latest steam hardware survey results for OS usage?
(And Graphics Card levels?)
18:01
@ThePhD 31% for Win10, 34%-ish for Win7, some 15% for Win8.
DX12GPU & Win10 is at 36%
What's DX11 at?
14.54%
50% of the market...
Hot diggity that's low...
DX12GPU and pre-win10 are 31%
Oh
I don't care about it cross-matched to OS
I just want DX11+ capable percentage
Ell
Ell
18:03
win7 is dx11 right?
(Or OpenGL 4.4)
@Ell No, it's that way around.
the next generation of AMD chips cannot run Windows 7.
or at least Windows won't support them
Without effort*, yes, that.
Ell
Ell
@Puppy they will probably run other operating systems
or something.
Ell
Ell
18:04
@Puppy that is exactly what I'm saying :V
basically, new hardware requires new windows.
Ell
Ell
you dumb mutt
Which is good.
Ell
Ell
@ElimGarak nah mayn
Others will adapt, bby <3
18:05
@Ell Well I don't really see what difference it makes.
if AMD don't support Win7 or Win7 doesn't support AMD
Ell
Ell
@Puppy "amd & intel only support windows 10" means you can't run os x or linux or bsd etc etc on them
which I'm sure is just plain wrong
windows10 will support running on future amd & intel chips
no, it's purely about previous versions of Windows- they only support Windows 10 out of the Windows family.
I know that Apple is in on it. Not sure about other OSes.
basically nobody cares about the other OSes anyway
18:06
there's the source.
Ell
Ell
@Puppy of course not
I forgot everyone in the world is puppy
well let me remind you
nobody cares about the other OSes.
> For Windows 7 to run on any modern silicon, device drivers and firmware need to emulate Windows 7’s expectations for interrupt processing, bus support, and power states- which is challenging for WiFi, graphics, security, and more. As partners make customizations to legacy device drivers, services, and firmware settings, customers are likely to see regressions with Windows 7 ongoing servicing.
I am sure
that nobody ever
will be able to patch this up
and make it work
18:08
@melak47 It's completely fine, really. Finally going to push people over to Win10.
Aren't OSes supposed to adapt to hardware and not vice versa
evolve or get left behind
@milleniumbug It's a bit of both.
@milleniumbug Fuck legacy :P
Ell
Ell
is windows 10 full of spyware?
18:08
@ElimGarak I just wish that Win10 was actually appreciably better than Win7
you'll probably only need to find a way to fool your hardware that your win7 is win10
@AlexM. Nah, bby, it's real <3
Ell
Ell
@AlexM. other way round, right?
fooling win10 you're running on a kaby lake or w/e
Although, that wasn't beyond Microsoft in the past (DX10 and Vista vs XP)
@ElimGarak if only win10 didn't force this whole app bullshit down your throat :p
18:10
Specifics are hush-hush because of Intel (IHVs, really), they're keeping a lid on things lately.
But they'll patch it right quick on other OSes or, fuck forbid, make them evolve. :P
how to test how many operations my computer can do in 1 sec?
I tried this:
for (int i = 0; i < 1000000000; ++i) {
++counter;
}

but gcc optimized it to something like this: counter += 1000000000;
9
"operation" is ill-defined
user1804599
@SashaMN Use existing benchmarking software.
Your processor can do 80 herps per derp
7
Fuck, that's large.
5
user1804599
18:13
Microsoft releases benchmarketing software.
hmmm, in ideone.com/3QsvZR if I replace the tab before case () of _ with spaces, it seems to work
user1804599
Never use tabs in Haskell.
user1804599
Never use tabs in any language that has significant indentation.
s/tabs in//
Well, I successfully used tabs in Python
18:16
Never use any language where indentation matters. hides
@ElimGarak @Puppy beat you to it.
@JerryCoffin Well, I guess I'll let him have it, he's still recovering from his mom's skydiving accident. :/
you'll let me have it?
I earned it on my own motherfuckarrrr
@Puppy <3
@AlexM. Have you finished Underrail? :D
not yet
18:19
@ElimGarak Burn!
@StackedCrooked fez is probably my favorite character in that show
i dont get the liberace ref at the beginning though =/
liquorice ref
@SashaMN You have to put a blanket over the numbers so the compiler can't cheat :)
hmm.
Tested unordered_map vs. unordered_map on 1000 elements multiple times. Average results:
Test #0
map : 4.7996
unordered_map : 5.63053
Test #1
map : 4.98411
unordered_map : 5.2144
Test #2
map : 4.56194
unordered_map : 5.18186
Test #3
map : 4.62526
unordered_map : 5.02836
18:29
@Borgleader Really?
its clear for me now that map faster than unordered with this size)
@SashaMN Your computer can do 0 operations, as it's not a surgical robot.
@JerryCoffin I dont know who he is...
@Borgleader Musician who was generally assumed to be gay (Note I'm not arguing the point--I really don't know or care.).
I wonder what made people assume that
18:34
grep -v '\.[^L]\|\.L[^0-9]'
Goddammit Alex now you look like a standard Loungenoob
The real deal if you want to asm to look clean.
(Without hiding branches!)
@набиячлэвэлиь wot
@AlexM. Your avatar
> implying rapptz isn't a standard Loungenoob
18:35
@StackedCrooked with 10000 elements: map slower unordered_map. So I can confirm your result)
TBH I don't think that test was very meaningful.
@StackedCrooked why?
hmmm, on the other hand replacing all tabs in the haskell program I have also doesn't work
@SashaMN It's not necessarily entirely about the number of elements. At least for keys that sort lexically, it can/does also depend on the key size.
In a benchmark you have exclusive access to the data and instruction cache. So a benchmark that makes use of that will be faster, but in a real environment it would be horribly slow because it would cache-miss all the time.
18:37
@JerryCoffin ok. I tested for integers only)
Micro-benchmark can be useful. But you should always also test in a real enviroment.
@StackedCrooked I cant imagine cache misses on 1000 elements)
@StackedCrooked Nah--dragging reality into it ruins all the fun!
@SashaMN Even if it was time-sharing the cache with something else?
hmmm, replacing explicit case with matching on function level worked ideone.com/3QsvZR
@JerryCoffin A mistake I made once was to benchmark for IPv6 address comparison using the (A && B) vs (A & B) syntax. I generated a million of random addresses and rand it on both. It seemed the bit-and syntax was faster. Until I realized it.
More at 11.
18:42
@JerryCoffin But both algorithms must response one cache effects equally? On the average
"thats a burn about a burn, thats a second degree burn" <3
They both will be slow. Or they both will be fast
hmm
Emscripten seems that it's decided it no longer needs to function
@SashaMN Network packet travel from network card through the layers of the network stack until it reaches the application. Then this journey repeats for the next packet. This makes it very sensitive to cache misses. Those 1000 elements might be the drop that changes L2 access to L3 access, or worse.
Of course, a clever implementer would batch the packets.
@SashaMN They'll both suffer the same general effects, but the details may easily differ. For example, a map will typically have three pointers per node in addition to whatever it's actually storing. An unordered_map will typically only have one. A fixed amount of cache space stands at least some chance of holding more nodes.
18:46
dang
their version of Clang doesn't support polylambdas
oh well
@JerryCoffin so the best way to test how it works with map first, and try unordered after?)
Right, IIRC gcc's std::map nodes are 40 bytes.
clang was 32 iirc
analysis will not help
@SashaMN Neither will you
@StackedCrooked libstdc++ and libc++
18:48
Right.
@SashaMN Well, test both anyway. Order won't necessarily make a huge difference.
GCC and Clang don't give a flying fuck about the size of std::map nodes.
I couldn't remember the names.
They should care about their stdlib implementations.
Clang can use libstdc++ so they probably don't care ;p
user1804599
18:50
dat butcher
MeatSort
Serbian war criminal released from Hague due to terminal illness, obviously dying. :D
user1804599
It's "The Hague".
It's only Hague here, sorry. :P The Hague must be earned, sort of like the Adele.
Btw.. Just realized that it's likely that many applications always teetering on the border of the next instruction cache-miss.
That would explain why gcc is so conservative when it comes to loop unrolling. It risks triggering a instruction cache miss.
user1804599
18:54
My favourite optimisation is still GCC's abuse of x86-64 UB.
am I a bad person for liking this
@StackedCrooked You generally hope so, anyway (if not, they've probably built the I$ larger than necessary, and the CPU would be faster if they devoted that chip space to something else).
@SashaMN Please don't use this to conclude that map sucks and unordered_map rocks. Binary search has a much better worst-case scenario than hash tables.
user1804599
I sometimes want a map implemented as std::vector<std::pair<K, V>>.
user1804599
18:59
When I know there are very few elements and comparing Ks is cheap.
@StackedCrooked ...though if you really care about worst-case, you can build a hash table that stores colliding elements in balanced trees...
I recently read about some routers using binary search over hash tables because binary search has an upper bound.

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