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01:00
Telkitty, Cinch and confused MeltyButter. Lounge atmosphere toxicity rising rapidly.
when in doubt, blame Cinch
@ElimGarak don't worry we'll weather it with adorable animal pics
Red pandas to the front line!
it'll be a... cinch
I'm sorry I couldn't stop myself
@jaggedSpire <3
01:02
@MeltyButter I don't think the scientific part will cover it all. Not any more than meteorological models "capture" the wheather and climates. Yet.
I don't categorically exclude the theoretical possibility that in some distant future, we might have the capacity to fully analyze complex systems like even a particular human's mind, at some point in evolution. But that's really steep calls. It's not hard to demonstrate this with a little maths.
@Borgleader you did this to me. <3
The numbers at play are staggering.
user3047181
@sehe sure, to simulate 7 billion human minds is quite tricky
> quite tricky
user3047181
even 1 human mind is beyond us for at least a decade
01:03
Don't worry everyone, we'll hang in there. /cc @Borgleader @ElimGarak @ThePhD @TonyTheLion @Xeo @WGhost @набиячлэвэлиь
what if you just simulated 1
user3047181
but we have some axioms to begin with?
i think thats good enough
@jaggedSpire guilty as charged
@MeltyButter I say it's prohibitively expensive. Like, equally impossible as gathering enough water to extinguish the Sun.
user3047181
01:04
torture and hopelessness is bad, right?
@MeltyButter I think you're missing some orders of magnitude
user3047181
should we eliminate t and h?
@MeltyButter That's always useful
@MeltyButter huh
user3047181
@sehe probably, yeah
@MeltyButter orure and opelesness?
01:04
and we'll do it together /cc @Borgleader @ElimGarak @ThePhD @TonyTheLion @Xeo @WGhost @набиячлэвэлиь
user3047181
@sehe what trail of though lead you to believe that?
user3047181
*thought
@MeltyButter how? what would that mean? How would you know what to "get rid of". And how would you do it? Did you assess whether it's even possible to get rid of them? (I mean, thirst and hunger could count, and they're pretty essential)
I think chaotic behaviour is on the same level as Maxwell's demon. It is not feasible for any kind of computation.
01:06
elim y u lag me
@MeltyButter Axioms are a good start when trying to think about anything that we have no full grasp of. As long as the axioms are open for falsification. This is simply the scientific method, that's not a train of thought
user3047181
ignore computation and 'absolutely correct decisions'
user3047181
should we try to eliminate pain?
@MeltyButter You were the one who started "statistically manageable" and "scientific"
user3047181
*amongst humans...
01:07
@MeltyButter Should we? What would happen if we did
@ElimGarak <3
user3047181
@sehe I believe we should.
I'm not convinced.
user3047181
@sehe Pain might decrease.
01:08
If pain didn't exist, people would have lost useful triggers and factors constraining their behaviour
They'd lose a source of accomplishment and happiness.
It would be nice if pain could be switched after you've been notified. And then you can check periodically whether you've healed by activating it.
They'd loose a reason to be economic with their resources
user3047181
Okay, I mostly mean pain like starvation and hurt, not pain like motivation and the hope to increase one's worth beyond death - the main things people consider when it comes to captialism
Nah. I meant simple, physical pain in all my samples
user3047181
@sehe oh, okay. How many billionaires have ever experience pain like that?
user3047181
01:10
*or even millionaires?
If you can't experience hunger, there will be no fun in eating. There will be no satisfaction in achieving good technical skill. There will be no penalty to having child to heavy labour
@MeltyButter Everyone, all the time.
You can't light a candle without casting a shadow, bby
user3047181
*or even anyone who has the privilege to talk on this chatroom?
And what do they have to do with it (why the false dichotomy)
@MeltyButter Same deal. No human can be without pain
@jaggedSpire muh hert
01:11
If they were, they'd usually be dead real soon
user3047181
okay. That's quite a philosophical gap between me and you then.
user3047181
I've never experience pain.
@MeltyButter No it is a gap in realism.
user3047181
Am I deserving of happiness?
nope
user3047181
01:12
@nick Why not?
It's a Privilege, not a Right™
@Borgleader nice
user3047181
human rights are a privilege, thats quite a c++ lounge quote :P
@MeltyButter Really. How do you tell your obstructing blood flow to a limb when you're sleeping? How do you tell your house is on fire? How do you know when to use the bath room? How did you learn the discipline to use the brakes instead of just parking up to a wall? How did you find out other people experience pain? Or do you also not feel a need to accommodate other people?
@MeltyButter Well. Happiness is not a human right, AFAIR
I'm at a very nice and round 8,500 rep right now. That's 10000100110100 in binary. I feel good moving in to the new year like that.
01:18
Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.
user3047181
@sehe well maybe I'm a psycho but I differentiate between my discomfort and other people's discomfort
@ElimGarak Remember the fifth of November, the gunpowder treason and plot.
user3047181
but I realise that I increase my chance at social success if I take other people's wants into consideration
@MeltyButter Of course. What does that have to do with things?
SmellyButt
01:20
Maybe start with the earlier questions before transitioning to the "other people" domain
user3047181
@sehe it's evidence of the kin/group/species/selection force in effect on all organics
user3047181
these subconscious forces make me feel better for doing some of the things I do
wtf is going on in this chat
If you can figure it out there's a Nobel prize waiting
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
user3047181
01:24
does everyone here seriously have no idea what I'm talking about?
@MeltyButter Please don't skip the question pending question again. You are on a segue again, posing nice rhetorics that I supposedly cannot reply to. I can, but I won't because we were discussing your claimed freedom of pain, and total inexperience with it too.
I was almost about to ask a question why the compiler can't warn about a non-virtual destructor for delete base_ptr. Then I realised I'm an idiot. Fortunately I sometimes get these personal insights before I make an ass of myself.
@MeltyButter ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Pages/Language.aspx?LangID=eng I can't find happiness in there. Or any of the other declarations. Here's the list of ratified treaties/conventions for Ireland, in case you want to have a look for yourself: tbinternet.ohchr.org/_layouts/TreatyBodyExternal/…
@MeltyButter do you know what I want
@CaptainGiraffe -Weffc++ / also depends on who (ever) subclasses (in the future). final is a keyword since c++11 though :)
user3047181
01:27
@sehe okay sorry, I do of course feel pain. I thought we were talking about how objective/subjective that pain is?
No we weren't. Why did you claim you have never experienced pain?
16 mins ago, by MeltyButter
I've never experience pain.
user3047181
I was being rash I guess.
Oh. That's helpful.
It was only the core of the topic, I guess.
user3047181
I meant that I've never felt personally attacked by someone else's words.
@sehe -Weffc++ is so neat! I had no idea! final is of course instructive to the compiler.
01:29
-Woofc++
user3047181
@sehe which is still core to the topic I think.
@CaptainGiraffe it's annoying
@MeltyButter wat. How does that even come up as a possible meaning for that line. Oh well. I'm gonna post this once more:
37 mins ago, by sehe
I think there's a rather large language barrier at play here. Even so, I doubt we're going to cross that, as long as one party steadily neglects the existence of the barrier.
@sehe Yeah but I love the fact that they bothered.
I'm really going to bow out now.
@CaptainGiraffe Me too. GSL + corresponding tools should be a lot more usable though
And not take long to arrive (VS2015 touts them, already?)
@sehe See you in 2016. Happy new years.
01:31
I didn't mean to imply I was leaving already :)
@nick Spandex? (idk why i made that ref, its older than you :P)
user3047181
I can't find the words to express why I disagree :p
user3047181
But I still believe in human language as a tool to argue my case
@sehe gnu sci library?
@MeltyButter Me too. But it's not working well enough for me to keep trying. Sorry.
user3047181
01:34
still gobsmacked that no one else here thinks that statistics can show what the best course for human life is? I mean no one's seen what HDI does, what GDP means, etc?
@MeltyButter Statistics already do show what the best course for human life is. Continously. At the macro and micro levels.
That's what evolution is. It's a continuous feedback system with some probabilistic controls
user3047181
@sehe right, I know you want to leave soon, but could you expand on the 'macro' levels part?
@MeltyButter Why do you phrase all these follow up as rhetoricals in a desperate voice, all the time?
@MeltyButter Evolution.
>It's a continuous feedback system with some probabilistic controls youtu.be/9irsg1vBmq0?t=63
Behaviour of groups in animal population.
@CaptainGiraffe Nice one
@MeltyButter economic and social wellbeing, again, are made up things that don't actually exist.
01:39
are you implying that humans care about other humans
what is this strange concept
You /might/ come up with some definition of them, but they would be self-serving at best
i understand how it works
that i should be at the top and you suckers should be below me
@MeltyButter Ah. I think most people do this. But yeah, it might be undervalued in a community like this
@MeltyButter Not really. It's mostly private curiosity + a whole lot of chance.
Many of the essential ingredients to the big leap revolutions had been invented thousands of times over. And never gotten applied
damn right!!
Hold on a moment. You're seriously twisting my words.
01:42
@nick If you think you should be on the top of sehe you pretty fucking well show your code for this. sehe has given us Shakespeare. All I see from you is Ignatius J. Reilly.
Martin Lawrence is hilarious
m8 go look at my code if you want
@MeltyButter Stop that. This has been the last time you give me such a ridiculous cop out.
I'm saying you use empty phrases, and you come up with an interpretation that I somehow say we should keep things the way they are? That's complete bullocks.
I don't appreciate it.
its a trap sehe
@nick Have at it :)
go to sleep before its too late
01:43
@MeltyButter I said the notions you refer to have no well defined meaning.
Depending on how you choose to define them, they might exist. Sure:
5 mins ago, by sehe
You /might/ come up with some definition of them, but they would be self-serving at best
@CaptainGiraffe repost but here you go github.com/Rabrennie/anything.js/pull/353/files
sehe needs boost to write fast code
i use TurboJS++
@MeltyButter ... They we go again, with the derogatory rhetorics
You can't simply imply we're too uneducated or disinterested pricks. It doesn't work like that.
Arguments win debates.
@nick Dude, I optimised the crap out of that with TurboPascal back in 1993.
01:46
@MeltyButter I've explained to you twice before. And you acknowledged it the second time.
@sehe agreed, we have several PhD's in here
@nick Are we Telegram's PR department now :)
@MeltyButter Stop the rhetorics. You are bullying
@MeltyButter They can. And I think they mostly do. In our modern day
@CaptainGiraffe yeah well that was 1993 it probably took days to run
probably needed a computer the size of a whole room to run your algorithm
@nick Weeks. I had to get my dad to run the paper card stack to the computing room.
I'll slow down too.
01:48
vaccination made me autistic
@MeltyButter for some definition of development...
@CaptainGiraffe damn that's dedication
median or average
I can't help but noticing this ChmodMeltyCinch pattern of just positing fuzzy statements and then decrying the "obvious implications."
Aug 28 at 22:23, by MeltyButter
pftch! you guys think you're like, totally super smart and shit, BUT YOU'RE NOT!!!
@sehe lmao
@nick Another funny thing is that my dad actually submitted fortran computer programs on cardboard.
01:50
I'm out. Jimmy Hendrix is preoccupying my mind now
@MeltyButter if average is significantly higher than the median, then there is significant pay disparity, therefore I'm not sure if you can say everyone is happier
@MeltyButter Oh. I do agree that I've had the impression we tried to have a coherent debate. I'm sorry it didn't work out
@sehe goodbye friend
Mean while, I am feeling slight discomfort, I could not but thinking to myself: I might have cancer, I am so going to die. I am depressed, I don't want to die anytime soon.
@sehe fare thee well
01:51
@CaptainGiraffe :/
:/
you tell me m8
I always tend to get depressed when I feel unwell
@nick Look at the fortran 77 restrictions 7 spaces before a statement. I coded with that during my CERN run back in 96. Dad told me a subroutine was a pack of cards held together by a cloth lining.
@CaptainGiraffe do you know what I was doing in 96
I think only achievements lead to happiness.
@nick Huggin mom?
01:54
@MeltyButter lol where did you get that
lol wut
don't insult my country!
@nick No =) tell me
@MeltyButter gosh. Shall I kick you before you hurt yourself? I don't want you to experience pain, for the first time in your life
@CaptainGiraffe being born lel
@MeltyButter USA! USA! USA!
01:55
@sehe lol sehe dont worry i got dis
USA! USA! USA!
@MeltyButter you comedian
AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@nick I was correct once again! Praise Jesus, peace be upon him and me!
2ND AMENDMENT
FREEDOM!
FEET AND INCHES!
01:56
GUNS!!! OOO RAH
of course every person here is an American. America is the only country in the world.
true
foreign countries dont exist
24 messages moved to bin
:27813736 I said, the previous was the last one of your cheap cop outs
user3047181
But honestly, it feels like no one takes my opinions seriously.
why not?
01:57
Because he's not American.
You can't continue aggravating people on pretense of misunderstanding, while clearly not increasing the effort to prevent it
EAGLES AND SHIT.
@user3886129 how
@MeltyButter I'ts the same for everybody here in chat.
@user3886129 hahhaah
01:57
FARMS!!!
alright I'm running out of things
@jaggedSpire He's American't.
He's out for 5 mins. I might be around if you need me.
RIP melty butter
it will be OK
I've been banned for 30 minutes one time. I didn't cry much
i got banned like twice in the same day
01:59
If I've been banned I didn't notice
actually that happened multiple times
@jaggedSpire probably cuz drunk on yogurt kahlua
because I am a good pile of rocks
good
the sad part is that I was banned for saying something that everybody says all the time
@nick don't knock it it's delish
01:59
My ex GF 10 years ago banned me for life. I'm still happy.
gg
@bitcode Crying is not the goal. Preserving a certain balance in the room is.
@nick just ask @ThePhd he'll confirm that I am a very good person
not a mean bone in my body
all my bones are made out of candy actually, that is how sweet I am
it's a very fragile state of being
@sehe as I said above, I was banned for saying a word that everyone says all the time here
@nick testing
ERMAHGERD
I PINGED MYSELF IN THE FUTURE
02:02
@bitcode I'm sorry to hear that. Are you taking this opportunity to discuss that? Because that really belongs on meta. We do not have the power to ban.
@bitcode ...were you banned for saying MSVC2013? Because that's a pretty bad word, I'm not surprised.
Flags get abused sometimes. Ironically it's almost always non-regulars (read: newbs or people from outside the chat)
@sehe no, no. I don't wanna discuss that. haha. I'm over it. I'm a grown boy
:278138105 lol get rekt[refresh]
doot doot
02:02
wait for it [wtf]
wtf is this doot business about?
@nick I'm not waiting that long
@CaptainGiraffe did you take a look at (the start of) my paper?
wait I fucked up
02:04
@CaptainGiraffe filler, I assumed he'd linked only a post or two below
@jaggedSpire hahaha
instead of like 5k posts from now
@jaggedSpire greetings [refresh]
awkward
@orlp I did. I'm going to work tomorrow.
@jaggedSpire heh
test?
02:05
damn
@CaptainGiraffe please do keep in mind that it's only the very first section of a longer paper, and is still very rough :)
eh
it needs to exist when submitted I suppose
@orlp It is still tricky. We need to implement it ourselves until we are convinced. Looks good though.
@jaggedSpire so sad
02:06
@orlp are you writing a paper for school?
@CaptainGiraffe the paper will never fully explain or justify the code
@CaptainGiraffe there are simply too many preconditions it abuses to eliminate bound checks
@orlp Why not?
i boot up a pc i havnt booted in a while and java wants to update
hahahahahahaha no
@CaptainGiraffe it would make it too long
@CaptainGiraffe maybe in the future I'll looking to proving it correct using automated tools
@orlp What is your target pagecount?
02:08
@CaptainGiraffe I don't have one
I just have to separate core algorithm from implementation details
since there are more than enough interesting parts of the core algorithm to waste time on implementation details
@orlp Have you read a lot of papers dealing with your kind of optimization? If not I could refer you to a few.
@CaptainGiraffe not particularly
I could probably do it
@CaptainGiraffe for example, take the first loop in partition_right
Just so you know how to write that kind of thing.
02:11
whats the algorithm
while (*++i < *l);
@nick something about sorting butts
That while loop is guaranteed not to go out of bounds because the pivot (*l) is selected as a median of 3
so there must be an element such that *i >= *l
That is the unguarded_partition in std::.
@CaptainGiraffe yes, this is not novel
@CaptainGiraffe which makes me reluctant to write a lot about it
I mention what I'm doing (bottom of page 2), but don't fully explain why/what or how
02:14
@orlp The original hoare quicksort(61) does not contain an unguarded partition. but it does suggest it.
@CaptainGiraffe I just noticed a typesetting error
@CaptainGiraffe the &s are missing in partition_right
night. Se y'all in 2016.
@nick She'll steal your soul when you're not looking, throw it around, stomp on it, crush your very dreams... and when she's done, she'll put it back in your body before you notice it was gone, and you'll suddenly just feel drained and tired. And she'll look at you and smile and tell you that perhaps you just need some rest, all the while with that... face.
@ThePhD :3
Oh god.
02:19
oh, you
On the bright side.
The professor approved both the sol idea and the Native-API graphics idea @MarkGarcia.
So now I have 2 ideas I could roll with.
RIP HLSL <-> SPIR-V compiler stuff though.
02:23
But sol is done already no?
shhh
> Kobe Bryant in his first video game vs his last video game
pretty cool
Well, what I'm doing in the class is mostly "How to optimize a library to be zero overhead over the plain C version".
You think he can't Google?
So it'll be a lot of benchmarking and stuff.
@Borgleader I linked them the repo and explained to them what I'll be doing, so. It's on them for saying yes. vOv
I don't get to do the charting library idea either.
02:25
I didn't know you were gonna optimize it
@Borgleader Well, yeah. I'm gonna update it for C++14/17 and then see if I can optimize it to have 0 runtime overhead as compared to the plain C version of the functions.
@sehe haha meta
:c
I found a Nikon D3200 on ebay for $93.
@user3886129 I found this relevant post that was relevant to his remarks: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/258668/…
@ThePhD should bebe fun. Channel the Chandler
@ThePhD is negative overhead allowed? :)
02:38
I think at most 0 overhead is what was intended
@ThePhD i dun believe it
@user3886129 that seems pretty cheap. How banged up is it?
We've not seen @Praetorian in a while now.
rip pawnguy
That's another guy. I think has a different handle these days and sometimes comes by.
02:52
@ThePhD You're cool
I should start a personal project
I guess I do have one but that's more like wrok

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