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22:00
@rightfold website looks straight out of the 90s i dont trust it
@nick It's by Amazon.
well that's what it says..
@ScottW :P
@rightfold any good experience there?
user1804599
no
user1804599
22:04
I am good enough at software development myself.
@ScottW join the club I guess
user1804599
Outsourcing it will be more expensive since most people are terrible at software development.
haha it's good to know that you have the time to do it yourself
amazon romania is located in iasi i.e. the worst place to be in atm because it's at a short range missile launch from moldova (republic)
donowant.jpg
i'm not looking a complete solution, just a couple of c++ libraries
Xeo
Xeo
22:05
"yeah sorry, no deliveries, we kinda got nuked."
I wish we could work on a C++ Lounge<chat> API
But, even C++ fanboying, it's so hard to justify C++ as a tool for that job
@Jefffrey for what purpose?
There are little to none OpenID libraries, very few and huge web frameworks or libraries (Wt for example).
JSON, XML and PostgreSQL would not be a problem, I guess
user1804599
lol don't do anything I/O related in C++
It's not the I/O part that is scary, it's the "web" part that is.
user1804599
22:11
web is 100% I/O
Every program is 100% I/O from some level of abstraction
Hey guys
user1804599
only usecase for C++: libraries with C APIs that implement performance-critical CPU-bound algorithms and can be used from sane platforms such as Java, Python and .NET.
Ku Klux @Kian.
Howdy Pardner
22:13
@Nooble Huh? I mean I'm familiar with the racist organisation but still
@Kian A pun based on your nick
it was a joke based on your name :/
@Jefffrey Damn keyboard.
user1804599
I enter kkk a lot in Vim.
22:15
@Jefffrey The lounge working on one project together sounds like it will be a disaster.
Coding conventions will clash.
I have been writing some C++ and the more I read the more I realise I don't know
In C++ there's really only one coding convention: "what boost does"
And don't talk to me about writing classes with CamelCase because Bjarne said so or whatever
@Jefffrey okay_fine
ok lets make the API but you can't use Inheritance because it is the Root of all Evil
@Kian That's a sign of progress.
22:16
or you can all follow my convention
because why wouldn't you
it's a good convention
nah I just do the C# .NET thing except that _member becomes member
i can't work with weeabos sorry
I'm not very imaginative
@ScottW good night sweet prince
@ScottW Bye :)
user1804599
I think github.com/mill-lang/old/tree/develop/mill is a nicely designed C++ code.
22:19
what looks public-ish gets uppercased what doesn't gets lowercased
I use Java's convention but functions are CamelCase.
user1804599
No, you idiot.
user1804599
It's lower camel-case.
i use double__under__scores
@ScottW cya
user1804599
22:20
moron
@nick Oh god.
I've seen worse.
Stupid_Case.
user1804599
I like hngrnCamelCase.
fuck formulae ain't the only things that look good in latex
code looks good too
user1804599
And EIFFEL_CASE.
user1804599
And also SQL CASE.
22:21
@rightfold hngrn?
@rightfold You mean sql case
user1804599
HttpCase is retarded.
user1804599
HTTPCase ftw.
> from sane platforms such as Java
22:23
@rightfold Yep.
user1804599
Java is a great platform.
user1804599
The language itself is suboptimal (still by-far better than C++) but the platform is terrific.
@milleniumbug He means JVM
@rightfold You're contradicting yourself so hard
she's talking about the java virtual machine vs the language
user1804599
22:25
she*
@rightfold that's what she said?
@rightfold you started taking drugs for that?
right right sorry about that
user1804599
@milleniumbug not yet :p
or was it for a while
@rightfold you plan to?
user1804599
22:26
yes!
inject 5ml estrogen suspension directly into left buttock every other day
good luck
Do you plan on cutting?
@nick Only left?
user1804599
@Jefffrey no; I'm indifferent about that.
22:27
@Nooble Injection into right buttock considered harmful too gay
user1804599
It may change one day and rightfold's vagina could become a fact, but I currently don't plan on it.
user1804599
@milleniumbug thanks
@nabijaczleweli true
@nabijaczleweli How about the middle buttock?
user1804599
my opinion since recently:
user1804599
22:28
Java > C++: Tracing GC. Quick compilation. Maven. Better tools in general. Simpler syntax. Better linking semantics. Reflection.
C++ > Java: Operator overloading. Type inference.
@Nooble ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
C++ > Java: Lack of "everything can be null", type system
JS > Java + C++: for all things
user1804599
@Jefffrey C++ doesn't lack null.
@rightfold C++ >> Java: operators
22:28
╚═( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)═╝
╚═(███)═╝
╚═(███)═╝
………(█)
……….
@rightfold Assign null to reference in C++ pls
its a lenny-pede!
user1804599
Java's type system is much more consistent and simple than C++'. Also, null is overrated as a problem, and Optional<T> is a fact.
@Nooble We used the same site, haven't we :G
NullPointerException
22:29
@nabijaczleweli Yes :D.
user1804599
@Jefffrey Haven't encountered one in years.
user1804599
Have been using Scala for years and recently Java too.
user1804599
Also, NullPointerException >>>>>> UB.
@rightfold C++ > Java: "structs", value-types by default, static polymorphism, "swap", non-intrusive type-erasure (a-la std::function).
user1804599
22:32
Java also has structs they're called classes.
C++ >> Java: templates
@EvgenyPanasyuk structs are classes with public default access modifier
Language wars!
@nabijaczleweli I mean memory layout, i.e. structs in C# sense.
@EvgenyPanasyuk uwotm8
@Nooble ( ͡°╭͜ʖ╮͡° )
22:33
I should make a gif for this.
Java > C++: RMI
@rightfold Try to do vector<complex<double>> in Java - you would have N+1 allocations.
@Nooble ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
@Jefffrey Java > C++: PMS
user1804599
Value-types aren't very interesting/useful, especially not when their values are immutable (which they should be in Java), Java has static polymorphism through generics and overloading, swapping variables is not something you do often in Java, type erasure is much less intrusive in Java since you don't have to give a shit about memory management.
user1804599
22:34
@EvgenyPanasyuk do I give a shit about that?
user1804599
I don't write code that manipulates large amounts of complex numbers.
@milleniumbug dafuq
user1804599
99.99999% of programs don't.
@nabijaczleweli also TLA
@rightfold 100% of programs don't
22:34
Three Letter Acronym
+/- statistical error
@rightfold Java's generics - is not static polymorphism, it's runtime.
user1804599
eh, they are
user1804599
Java's generics are type-erased.
user1804599
They don't exist at runtime at all.
22:36
It is parametric polymorphism, not static.
user1804599
What do you mean, exactly, by static polymorhism here?
@milleniumbug ?
separate generated code for each instantiation, policy-based types, etc.
user1804599
Templates are not necessary and only cause lots of problems (see duck typing in general as well as compilation times centuries).
Premenstrual syndrome (PMS) refers to physical and emotional symptoms that occur in the one to two weeks before a woman's period. Symptoms often vary between women and resolve around the start of bleeding. Common symptoms include acne, tender breasts, bloating, feeling tired, irritability, and mood changes. Often symptoms are present for around six days. A woman's pattern of symptoms may change over time. Symptoms do not occur during pregnancy or following menopause. Diagnosis requires a consistent pattern of emotional and physical symptoms occurring after ovulation and before menstruation to a...
22:37
@Jefffrey don't bother, it was a bad joke
> tender breasts
user1804599
If you try to write C++ in Java then sure, you'll fail.
user1804599
Just like all those poor fuckers who try to write Haskell in Scala, or C in Python.
And C in Java, emulating structs by hands in byte buffers.
user1804599
How to learn a language:
1. Learn language.
2. Learn idioms.
user1804599
22:39
step 2 is often forgotton
> forgotton
For cotton.
Anyway, Java code looks over-bloated by boilerplate.
user1804599
that's only because you read Java code written by morons
Scala is better than Java anyway
22:41
>taking rightfold seriously
Why bother with Java?
rookie mistake
user1804599
even with all the reasons Java sucks, the compile times make me feavour it over C++ at any time
@rightfold Well, even Java programmers admit that it is worse than modern alternatives. It's main strength is ecosystem, not language.
user1804599
no amount of hacks suck as PCHs are gonna solve that horrible problem, nor is screwing up your design by substituting templates by polymorphic classes. and PIMPL; what a horrible horrible thing
22:45
sounds like you would highly enjoy javascript
user1804599
lol, no
user1804599
JavaScript is the worst programming language ever.
7
Nothing is real, everything is JavaScript ~ @nick, 2015
yes finally someone quoted me
i don't remember saying that but thats beside the point
@rightfold how so?
@nick rfold said so. Do NOT argue with rfold
rfold's word is our law
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ °)
22:47
point taken
user1804599
very bad type system, very bad scoping rules, eval, very bad community (dunning–kruger fest & incredible morons), lots of global state and monkey patching, no checked argument count, etc etc etc
type system was never mean to be strict
user1804599
so?
you should read about js closures if you want to learn about scope
ok i see your point about community
user1804599
that feature Y of X wasn't meant to be Z doesn't make X any less terrible
user1804599
22:49
@nick I know how JS works. I have the misfortune of using it every day.
not sure what you mean about the global state business
@nabijaczleweli Dude.
I'm not doing that.
I swear.
Well I am.
But I'm not doing it voluntarily.
Oh dammit Noob!
The hell...
Is there a key I'm pressing?
@Nooble Check your keybindings
22:51
@nabijaczleweli All I have is push to talk.
@Nooble What is the key
Is it still 'f'?
No, numpad0.
user1804599
@sehe stream is kapot
@Nooble Weird...
@rightfold Reload
@rightfold No you didn't pay attention
:D
22:52
@rightfold sehe is streaming right now?
user1804599
???
@rightfold What's the "very bad scoping rules" part again?
user1804599
something about cryptography
Yup. Just restarted so I can save a permalink:
Okay. The answer is there. There's a link to the live stream vod in case you're curious how I go about things (experiment) — sehe 54 secs ago
user1804599
@Jefffrey mostly this and eval, also assigning undeclared variable creates a global
user1804599
22:52
@sehe oh now it works
@Borgleader Yes.
Tuning in :D
user1804599
ES6 has let and const which is a huge improvement.
OMG the plink is real
user1804599
HELLO EVERYONE
22:54
@rightfold This is why interrupting the stream is not a nice idea :)
Tried to tell you the other day
@Borgleader You should also join the mumble so you can be cool.
I hear nothing
@Nooble Borg is too cool for Mumble
@Nooble I'm eating supper right now =/
@Borgleader That's the opposite of a problem
22:55
@Borgleader You're gonna let supper get in the way of your coolness?!
You don't need to talk
Why are you disconnecting so much nab.
@Jefffrey On what?
On @sehe's livestream
@Nooble Mumble is having problems with me, ff and pasting >500 bytes
@Jefffrey Weird. I can hear it fine.
22:57
I'm gonna not touch it and not invoke problems
@Nooble Is he away?
@Jefffrey No. He's streaming right now.
@Jefffrey No
He's talking constantly
Are you guys kidding me?
No.
22:58
@Jefffrey No
Try reloading
@Jefffrey I can hear him talk
linkplox
nvm
I found it
Woops
My fault
hey that's me on the TV
HI MUM
23:00
Good night sehe
noight sehe
good night sweet prince
I saw myself in sehe's screen on my screen
screenception
@Jefffrey sehe died
23:01
@Jefffrey Now he is.
RIP in peace
RIPIP in peace.
user1804599
@AlexM. yup u2
@rightfold i must have this
23:03
I'm actually heading to bed. Didn't really enjoy getting up at 6 this morning. 4h sleep is not unusually short, but 6am is too early
Apparently, I still have /some/ bio rhythm
user1804599
lol
Now I am working with tradesman (currently plumber) I have to get up really early every now and then ... like 5-6ish early
tradies usually start early - 7ish
can the same condition variable be used on multiple mutexes?
just curious :)
@Borg Are you still eating? [ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°]
> A mutex is combined with CV to avoid the race condition where a thread starts to wait on a CV at the same time another thread wants to signal it; then it is not controllable whether the signal is delivered or gets lost.
Oh, that's interesting.
Didn't know the mutex is actually needed to synchronize the waiting on the CV.
23:15
What.
You never used one, then
Oh shit. Wrong turn. Bed is the other way... :S
5
I always thought the mutex was solely for the protection of the associated resource.
@sehe The story of my life.
@StackedCrooked The cv is an/the associated resource
yep, TIL
@StackedCrooked There's also the part where you want to hold a mutex when you are woken up...
:D
23:17
I know I'm stupid.
But making progress and one day I'll look down upon you!
@StackedCrooked signaling is often done outside the lock, but if you want to prevent waiter starvation, you need to signal from under the mutex locked, even /cc @Griwes
@StackedCrooked You can already. Just don't let me see it
@Borgleader ARE YOU STILL EATING?
> We’re happy to say that we have fixed over 750 Connect feedback bugs in Visual Studio 2015 RTM since its first CTP release middle of last year blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2015/07/01/…
whoa. Let's keep it real o.O
also occasionally have to get up 6-7ish for the training of this 100km charity bushwalking thing.
23:20
Greek yogurt + pita = yum
But the new house is about to be completed in 2-3 months time so I hope, so I don't have to deal with tradies anymore for a little while at least & the 100km bushwalk is at the end of August.
@jaggedSpire Greek yogurt is weird.
@Nooble I prefer the texture to other other kinds of yogurt. It's more like cream cheese.
@Nooble Test
Learning about vectorization :)
It's fascinating.
23:23
Peanut butter. ­
is that video unlisted?
@StackedCrooked fit more things closer together to reduce cache misses, I'm guessing?
@jaggedSpire It's also about performing multiple operations in a single cycle.
@StackedCrooked interesante.
23:25
Like using four jackpots with only one arm.
@StackedCrooked thx
@R.MartinhoFernandes What did you do!?!?
explain yourself!
@nabijaczleweli yes
­
­­
­
­­
23:29
Guys what's the right way to implement a conversion table e.g. int to string? A map?
­
@Kian std::map and the like
­
@nabijaczleweli Thanks
I really need to find a way to learn C++ properly
­
@Kian Get a book
Yeah I'll have a look at the recommendations soon
@Borgleader Stop eating and come be cool with us

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