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22:00
if it's a big company you just follow the design and at most you give suggestions
the creativity is really implementing A* in a creative way
You mean reinventing, badly
I see. That's not fun then. But the same is true of most programming jobs I guess
well yeah
@CatPlusPlus yes but whats the alternative?
All
of them
22:00
indie gamedev should be fun
@Pris To what
gather a team of 7 people who know how to do stuff
Link to messages
c++
My job allows me to do both design and programming
22:01
Everything else
participate in the design process
If I could do the same for a game, I think I'd like it
unfortunately, you don't really get a steady paycheck like that
I haven't touched C++ for anything more than snippets in like 2 years
@CatPlusPlus What? There's somewhere that gives alcohol? Damn. I have to pay for mine.
22:01
so indie teams are meh
unless you have a budget from somewhere
@EtiennedeMartel how was working at ubisoft?
@Pris Pretty easy since I was in a small team working a prototype. That means no crunch time.
the only software place i really wanna work at in montreal is DSS
22:03
I wouldn't want to work at ubisoft
at least not on something big
and not on something that got screwed up
and has to be fixed
When I rejoin, I get to see a blue chick
22:03
I like where I'm sitting right now
Is that a sign I should quit drinking ?
@AlexM. what kind of games do you work on?
my only regret is that I'm not participating in the development of console and PC games
it's all mobile
Bah console
buuut, w/e, the schedule is nice
22:04
@Rerito No!
@AndyProwl saying that I work on games is a little bit too much since I work on tools and libraries
then again, all games include my libraries
yeah
has anyone here worked with UE4?
22:05
@JerryCoffin Are you implying I should drink more? :p
if you go to google play and download... dunno
Pastry Paradise or Asphalt Overdrive
you'll be nagged by messages telling you to buy stuff and showing you what nice meta-stuff happens
technically, I nagged you indirectly
by making those messages possible
@Rerito Yes
so if you ever need a reason to hate me, that's the way to go
all right
let's try
@Rerito That depends. Are you capable of drinking more?
22:07
Doesn't matter
@Pris lol working
@JerryCoffin Dunno, the new year's eve champagne blasted my belly (but not my head!)
I actually play some of the games using my code and it's weird because if something goes wrong I kinda know why
and it's very awkward if I know my code is at fault
like, as a gamer I want to get angry
but at the same time I'm like "fuck, I know why this doesn't work"
so I'm not sure what to feel
I'd maybe look into UE4 if it wasn't all C++
@Rerito If you're not sure, you should probably measure/test.
22:09
that's unfair. When I was a kid all I had was Wolfenstein 3D and now these super 3D effects run on mobiles
As it stands I'd rather use Unity
if I were a kid now I'd enjoy playing video games much more
@AlexM. The opposite here. Very often we get bugs that are actually from apps installed by the customers
@AndyProwl PC games from 2005+ are getting ported to mobiles
22:10
@CatPlusPlus but UE4 has the source code available!
back when Star Wars KOTOR was released everyone was like WOW
@JerryCoffin Yay like the "two eggs and floors" problem
now you can play it on a phone
San Andreas can be played on a phone
@Pris Like I want to see C++ game engine's source
and you needed a decent PC to play it at release
22:10
@Pris So you can debug it if your code fails.
@AlexM. I hope there's a port for it coming on Nvidia Shield!
I'm totally ignorant on the subject but what I've seen on youtube about UE4 is really wow
@CatPlusPlus @milleniumbug arent you guys excited at the prospect of looking through the architecture of such an amazing engine
No
It's most likely shit
id get a rush opening up a bunch of source files and seeing how stuff works
22:11
@AlexM. Sounds familiar, only before it was: "wow, now you can run this on a PC; when it was new, you needed a mainframe!"
And it was shit
@Pris I did that with Doom 3 once.
# Sentinel
sentinel_masters:1
sentinel_tilt:0
sentinel_running_scripts:0
sentinel_scripts_queue_length:0
master0:name=mymaster,status=ok,address=127.0.0.1:6379,slaves=1,sentinels=2
Biggest disappointment ever.
Success!
22:12
@JerryCoffin or an arcade cabinet!
arcades died slowly as the PC gained popularity
@milleniumbug and howd that go?
1 min ago, by milleniumbug
Biggest disappointment ever.
@AndyProwl I was genuinely surprised
actually wasnt there some dude that went through old game engines and wrote about their architecture
puppy is so lovely when he's nice to people
awwww fluffy puppy
22:13
Haven't seen a game engine with good architecture
yall are just negative nancies
game engine architecture is hardcore stuff
@CatPlusPlus You should take a look at ours. In fact, are you looking for work? We're hiring.
@EtiennedeMartel No, and no
@Pris they argue between themselves too (game engine guys I mean)
UE 4 fans point the finger at Unity saying it's made by non gamedevs so the tools are not that good for big game projects
for example
and tbh, for all its popularity, nothing really impressive came out of Unity
(visually)
so I tend to agree with them here
22:16
fanboys are dumb though. arguing about that stuff is usually at the same level as android and apple fans flinging insults at each other
lol people caring about graphics in 2014
@Pris not necessarily
Unity has issues with teams
pretty much everything in a scene is binary
if you're a game creator and you haven't evaluated both unity and ue4 (if you need to use a big engine like that) and chosen whats best for your goals then thats just incompetence
Game still need to advance to the next level, instead of blinding everyone with flashy stuff.
have fun version controlling that with a team
@milleniumbug that has to do with game design and not game engines
which are used to provide performance, graphics quality and stuff
technically, the Unity team never developed a game to see what kind of things are needed for big stuffs
UE4 and CryEngine were developed with games and vice-versa
22:19
ive heard a lot of unity features are lacking and/or poorly supported
I think Unity works fine for small stuff
Hearthstone for example
but at the same time the presentations ive seen for how they do cross platform dev and testing is very impressive
Wasteland 2 - it's a big RPG, but has poor performance and looks ok-ish
unity runs like... everywhere
it's also cheap
22:20
hopefully unity games will move away from that default cartoon/plastic look when unity5 or whatever the realistic material shaders hits
you pay once and you're done
Epic takes from your earnings with UE4
yeah, pretty unfortunate business model with ue4
Ell
Ell
I just found my attempt and rendering isometric tiles
it's no good
@Pris yup, but then again
there's no doubt UE4 can be used for huge projects
which can't be said about Unity
i really dislike recurring payment models. even qt has that now
22:22
so their only competition is CryEngine
which is more expensive
anyway, I'm off to play some LA Noire
ive heard cryengine is also fairly difficult to use in comparison to ue4
I hope I can stop investigating drug dealers soon because I want something interesting to happen
what kind of promotion is that, from homicide to vice
it makes no sense
murders should be the bread and butter of this
@AlexM. The Peter Principle in action.
lol yeah that fits
anyway I've read there'll be some sort of scandal soon so I have high hopes
off I go
@Pris you mean, that's the eternal excuse
22:27
@AlexM. Have fun. On second thought, when working vice, maybe it's best if you don't have too much fun...
'sorry i'm a begginer , how to compile with debug symbols ?' - what's the point in going on?
Well, newbies have to start some where - that's why we leave them with tomalak
He is the baby sitter for the lounge
Unwanted kids would be dumped at his door steps
bla bla bla
oh. did I say that out loud
Good afternoon everyone.
22:37
@MartinJames Who asked that?
> and below them
charming. As if people should be ranked linearly
I r the colds
perhaps because I turned off power to the heating
Are you fine with being cold?
I've also tested the code by passing by value. The thing is, and oddly enough this causes a seg fault too: m_vec = glm::vec3(0.f, 0.f, 0.f). So it's not a problem with the references here. — Poriferous 33 secs ago
sigh
Okay then you know best. — Lightness Races in Orbit 16 secs ago
With regards to glm, does anyone know which version that glm::translate(x, y, z) still worked in?
Now it asks for a mat4 and a vec3 along with it.
22:41
@Nooble lol operations on magic invisible objects.
@Nooble seems like a pretty specific question
@milleniumbug mat4 matrix = glm::translate(x, y, z)
seems like its still there
if I were to look for people who know alot about security, where could I look? I have a open source project which should fix certain DoS attacks but I don't know how safe it is. would be nice if someone who knows alot about this to give his/her opinion
@Nooble Ok, my mistake
@Gizmo OWASP, Security.SE
Thanks
> We did this without posting celebrity gossip, top 10 lists, or cat pictures. We did it by creating artifacts: useful, canonical bits of information, edited, refined, and curated by our community.
In fairness, a good number of cat pics (and worse) were involved - via chat rooms and similar
Ah the point had already been made
wokay...
SCARY iterators, essentially.
ahhhh wish I could load up gdb interactively in coliru!
22:54
@Puppy What
it's exactly the same principle at hand.
This question appears to be off-topic because it is aboutpeople trolling — Poriferous 1 min ago
lol
@LightnessRacesinOrbit strace/ltrace works
make all the code that you can independent of the template parameter.
FYI that's on his question
22:55
smart mouse.... actually a rather cool idea.
@Puppy oh. I hadn't gotten the impression that SCARYs were about that
I know it is. I won't debase myself to be understood by trolls. Closing this thread! — Poriferous 2 mins ago
@sehe Well, SCARY applies more to the interface, but the general principle is the same. It's long-known that, for example, std::vector<T*> is just std::vector<void*> with some casts, and you can save quite a bit of binary code implementing it that way on some platforms.
of course you'd only bother if you have some pressing need to share code between instantiations that your implementation can't implicitly share.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Well, now that's entitlement.
MSVC can fold functions with identical assembly.
22:57
@EtiennedeMartel mm
(The question and the comments by the author)
@Puppy I think all the compilers do. (Unless it's inlined (which is obviously better anyways), and the resulting inlined agglomoration doesn't happen to be identical to a similar block in another specialization?)
it's more effective to de-duplicate before inlining and other optimizations.
then you only have to optimize the function once instead of N times.
@Puppy Anyways, I had gotten the superficial summary message that SCARY iterators were about range checking bounds checking mostly. I must have really misread stuff there, or you're mentioning incidental implementation details in the particular implementation?
SCARY iterators and range checking bounds have little to do with each other as far as I'm aware.
23:01
@Puppy It would appear you've missed a rather large point about inlining + optimization. o.O It's pretty damn useless to "optimize" std::vector<int>::operator[] obviously. It's way more useful after you've inlined it into a function that uses it e.g. in a auto-vectorizable loop
SCARY iterators are a pretty basic principle- there's no reason why iterators should depend on template parameters that don't concern them.
@Puppy Like I said, I must have rad that particular memo really upside down
and the result can offer a more flexible interface than before that permits comparing iterators and such between containers with non-identical parameters.
Ell
Ell
@Puppy but how can they not? :S
so yes, I think you did get that memo upside down :P
23:02
@Puppy Ah. That way. Makes a lot of sense. But I feel this should mostly reduce compile time and resources, not so much the optimization passes.
Any advice for a tool that would help diagnose a possibly bad hard disk?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit nitpick; glm isnt written by a host of seasoned experts
its written by one dude
Ell
Ell
The iterator must depend on T surely
@sehe The function may only be simple enough to inline after it's been optimized by other passes.
or at least primarily so iirc
23:03
@DemCodeLines hdparm, smartmontools, spinrite
@Ell Yes, but there are other parameters that don't concern it- like allocators, for example.
as the Standard was originally written, vector<T, alloc1>::iterator and vector<T, alloc2>::iterator are different types; even though it's blatantly obvious that the iterator should not give a shit what the allocator is.
All I'm looking for is a tool that I can run which would analyze my HD and tell me what's wrong.
try Google.
@Puppy Understood. I've already adjusted my mental markings for SCARY and filed it as "to-read" again
Everytime I put laptop to sleep, the next time I try to wake it up, it boots up again.
23:05
@DemCodeLines If that's all you can say in response to getting 3 suggestions, perhaps get going? We're too lazy to do the thinking for people too lazy to research the stuff they have an interest in
@sehe As far as I can tell, it was always communicated badly at best. Whoever came up with that acronym is dumb too. You have to put in some effort to try to get the point.
@DemCodeLines sounds like battery/hw compat issues
@Puppy I'm already happy with your rather sensible summary sketch. I can work with that and will deffo read up later
@sehe I don't expect you to do research for me. I appreciate the help, the only reason I explained my issue further is because I thought someone here might know the problem (based on experience) and recommend a more accurate tool (assuming the first ones mentioned were not as accurate)
> (assuming the first ones mentioned were not as accurate)
that's the problem that triggered my kick-bone
23:07
@sehe Windows keeps telling there are drive errors.
@DemCodeLines could be related to faulty hw suspend states... if delay writes fail during suspend, this could explain both the messages and the reboots.
@sehe So the best way is to run one of those tools you mentioned?
I'd suggest scouring the BIOS for power state config settings, disable/remove all optional hardware until the problem disappears (elimination). Of course if it's the harddisk/controller indeed you won't be lucky with the eliminations, but at least then you /know/
3 mins ago, by sehe
@DemCodeLines sounds like battery/hw compat issues
Ell
Ell
@Puppy oh yeah of course
So - no maybe not immediately
23:10
I want a suit like this
oh boy, looks like I'm in for having to buy new stuff.
too bad they're not in fashion anymore :(
@DemCodeLines Unless of course maybe you could share the messages that you are talking about. BUT DON'T. Bring it to Super User instead (search first)
@DemCodeLines Not necessarily. If there's a hw / driver issue, frequently you can just google your laptop make/series + OS version and find the well-known fixes (driver update, specific BIOS config combination etc.)
and if you get a hat like that instead of looking stylish you'll look like some sort of reddit creep
people just don't know what good clothing looks like
Windows Error messages are useless. "We found errors on a drive. To repair these errors and prevent loss of data, restart your PC now. The repair could a while to complete."
23:11
BUT DON'T
Ehh, there is no error message.
I have been delaying this for months. Looks like I'll have to do it for a couple more.
@DemCodeLines Why is that useless, by the way. Drop into recovery console and run whatever is the current incarnation of CHECKDISK
You'll get all the messages you desire.
Doing a basic chkdsk right now. Let's see what happens...
Also, you could use a live DVD (gparted, trinity rescue, knoppix whatnot) and use ntfsfix from there
@DemCodeLines I take it you googled the relevant options. Otherwise you're just wasting time
what is fashionable for developers
do any of you wear hawaiian shirts
23:16
I wear single-color clothing
or a combination of two colors, max
e.g. white something, black on top
-1
Q: What is the longest line of C++ code that can possibly written, with the following contraints?

John Skeet's girlfriendWith the following constraints: Only standard libraries can be used. No nested data structures. Can't write anything like std::vector<std::vector> for instance. No limits on number of scope operators that can be used. Variable names can be no longer than 3 characters. No double-pointers, tr...

lol @ OP's name
@Pris with naked ladies on them?
> Can't write anything like std::vector<std::vector> for instance
i just have this stereotype in my head about old programmers and hawaiian shirts
isnt the answer just infinite semicolons
Windows has scanned the file system and found no problems.
No further action is required.
Great
For me, the answer is just the sum of all integers: 1+2+3+4+5....
0
Q: packaged_task hanging on operator()

BarryCompiling with gcc 4.7.2 on Ubuntu, compiled with -std=c++11 -O3 -pthread, I somehow created a deadlock in code that doesn't seem like it should ever run into that problem. I have a thread which just acquires a lock and then runs through a vector<function<void()>>, calling everything. Meanwhile, ...

nice guy here could use some help. i failed him
@Pris I sometimes wear game-related merchandise
still, the 2-color rule applies
@Pris FWIW that's forbidden by the constraints
Ell
Ell
I haven't read the Q but I'm immediately suspicious of -O3
23:21
but there's no constraint on the length of a literal
@thecoshman dat destruction of the English language
@AlexM. i want game related stuff from ie. theyetee.com
@DemCodeLines which drive? could be about a hidden volume or a secondary volume. USB things even
Ell
Ell
@AndyProwl that js limited by c++ surely?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the way that dude acquires a lock guard for the mutex protecting vector feels weird
Ell
Ell
23:28
If it won't fit into a long long
@AlexM. What's that.
@Ell For integers, yes. I don't think there's a limit on string literals though
@Pris Yeah but I swapped it out for a basic local lock guard around a file-static mutex, and nothing changed
user1804599
lol I implemented like six language features on the plane.
user1804599
@Jefffrey what is bad about it?
user1804599
23:38
I can make val into let if you want.
user1804599
@JohanLarsson It is very good.
user1804599
Or val into let and var into let mutable.
@Pris Never. I doubt I'd wear a Hawaiian shirt even if I was in Hawaii (and definitely not anywhere else).
I wear a Hawaiian shirt the last day or two before vacation.
It does not look ok.
user1804599
Hawaiian shirt day.
23:46
do you have one?
user1804599
no
Truly a disgrace, @rightføld
@Ell The lack of capitalization in this annoys me.
@darthnesscoveredthesky: Mate why are you spamming all over this question? — Lightness Races in Orbit 6 secs ago
user1804599
user1804599
Amazon.com targets everyone from Africa to America.
23:57
@rightføld Unemployment?
@rightføld Why is XXXXXX-Large at the top of the list?
user1804599
Most common choice perhaps.
Because apart from that, the list is sorted (ordered?) in ascending size.

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