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11:00
It was about senior and junior developers and everyone was being really condescending
@Rapptz To me it seems like he is pointing out a very valid issue with many young people that is provably relevant to the question at hand. Therefore, it is not a stretch to read Twilight's response in much the same light as your own reaction here in this room: he thinks MSalters has brought up age only for being rude and/or ageist and/or whatever else...
.. And all my comment is saying is that ageism has nothing to do with it: identifying behavioural differences between 20 year olds and 40 year olds is absolutely relevant. I hope that clarifies things somewhat.
i.e. if you or Twilight think age is utterly irrelevant, then you're naive or misinformed because growing up is not a myth. :)
Sigh indeed.
Tch.
Oh what now? I'm not allowed to love you?
11:02
No.
You can't stop me.
It's like 28 degrees here
11:04
Would be -3.8888ºC
@Rapptz jealous
do you always have such temperatures in autumn?
for 28 C room temperature? Really?
It's not Autumn in the southern hemisphere.
nor is it Rapptz's home in the southern hemisphere
what
ah, room temperature
11:07
I think it's a lot colder outside
Autumn is usually really cool here.
that would make sense
around 17 C or so.
It's probably hot because I made food earlier
I like winter more than summer though.
it's definitely a lot colder than that in here
btw when do you sleep usually? I think I've been seeing you around at every hour lately :P
I don't sleep!
11:11
cool
I have work in 2 hours.
I wish I could afford that
I take a nap when I get home for a bit.
I sleep in on Saturdays
and you're fine with just taking naps every day apart from Saturdays?
I mean, don't you just feel horribly sleepy all the time?
Nope.
11:12
cool
Polyphasic sleep is the practice of sleeping multiple times in a 24-hour period—usually more than two, in contrast to biphasic sleep (twice per day) or monophasic sleep (once per day). The term was probably first used in the early 20th-century by psychologist J. S. Szymanski who observed daily fluctuations in activity patterns (Stampi 1992). It does not imply any particular sleep schedule. The circadian rhythm disorder known as irregular sleep-wake syndrome is an example of polyphasic sleep in humans. Polyphasic sleep is common in many animals, and is believed to be the ancestral sleep state for...
@AndyProwl: any errors?
> While many claim that polyphasic sleep was widely used by some polymaths and important people like Leonardo da Vinci, Napoleon or Tesla, there are few reliable sources to support that view
Power naps are decent.
I was under the impression that the "second sleep" was not only common before the 18th century but well-known and well-researched
I'd buy this skill
11:15
here it is; perhaps it doesn't count as multiple sleeps for some reason
> is a polyphasic or biphasic sleep pattern
nope - ok so it's just Wikipedia being retarded and inconsistent again
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You mean 'siestas'?
They're still common, if so.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I still think 5/5 is not what is relevant there, [expr.prim.general]/8 is more to the point, because it says that id-expressions are lvalues. The fact that the expression a would have type int&&, but that immediately becomes int due to 5/5 is not important
@AndyProwl The fact that it's an lvalue was not in question; that int&& becomes int is
he was following up on my comment where I'd originally said that :)
that's how I read it anyway
@rightføld It's because you lot drive on the wrong side of the road.
Seriously though wow some people are fucking morons. This kind of cavalier shit is why our roads have tailbacks due to accidents every day.
11:24
a.vim is cool
I can move from .h to .cpp w/ \a
Xeo
Xeo
> Modem-­‐whistling
Able to emulate a 1200 baud modem using just your mouth (with error correction protocol) well enough to upload a GIF picture to Compuserv
lol (down at the bottom)
3
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Not sure I follow, but you may well ignore me if I'm saying BS. The way I understand the question (I mean the SO question) is that he's wondering why an rvalue R can be bound to an lvalue reference "indirectly" - i.e. by binding that lvalue reference to an id-expression that names an rvalue reference bound to R - but not "directly". The ideal answer IMO only has to do with value category, not with decaying of expression types.
(btw something I find inaccurate in your answer is "category of type" - that should be "value category")
I think "category of type" could be misleading because value category and type are two independent properties of an expression
The discussion in the chatroom also adopts this terminology and makes it harder for me to understand what is being asked and explained
Anyway, just my impressions/opinions
@AndyProwl Yeah we kinda moved past the SO question in the comment discussion
the decaying of expression types indeed has very little to do with the original SO question
@AndyProwl "kind of type" might have been better. Wasn't sure how to put that. :(
@LightnessRacesinOrbit wait, maybe I see now, you were asking about this question of him in the chatroom, is it so?
I'll make it "set of types" in the answer, maybe?
@AndyProwl Yes - follow the reply-to arrows :P
11:34
@LightnessRacesinOrbit better, yes
the thing is, his question "how int&/int&& becomes an lvalue int expression" makes little sense as it is formulated
printf("shiver in eternal darkness/n"); is a 2000 album by breakcore artist Venetian Snares. The album makes use of heavily distorted drumbeats and low-frequency bass sounds to create an extremely abrasive atmosphere, similar in sound to later Venetian Snares works such as Doll Doll Doll. Like many of Aaron Funk's productions, the album contains numerous samples. Both versions of "Cruel Whole" on the album feature heavy sampling from Star Wars, such as Luke Skywalker's scream of "No!" from The Empire Strikes Back, sounds of blaster fire, retracting lightsabers, and the swelling choir of John Williams...
he probably has a confused picture of what expression, types, and value categories are
lol newline fail
ikr
user1804599
11:41
yum
user1804599
cucumber salad
user1804599
@Rapptz dat forward slash
@Rapptz lol
@Xeo yay Essen
Xeo
Xeo
gratz
11:47
Fuck no S-Bahn to our flats.
Xeo
Xeo
I'd invite you to hang out somewhere today, but I got a Star Wars session
I bet no S-Bahn to where you are anyway.
Xeo
Xeo
hm, well, there's an S3 to Essen Dellwig, and a bus from there to basically in front of my door
I like the new Firefox new tab page
less bullshit, more most frequently visited pages
No fucking S-Bahn because strike
Just no.
Xeo
Xeo
11:58
@Puppy "more"?
I'm getting 3 less!
stupid "responsive" design :s
lol
I got 15 on my 1080p screen
Xeo
Xeo
I had 9 before. Now I have 6, with FF snapped to the left half of the screen.
@Rapptz surely in 2000, they had std::cout already ...
user1646075
no no no, everybody knows that \ is for path separators
12:11
1
A: Boost fusion sequence type and name identification for structs and class

seheThere's boost::fusion::extension::struct_member_name<S, N::value> to access the names. Here's a generic fusion object visitor that I use: namespace visitor { template <typename Flavour, typename T> struct VisitorApplication; namespace detail { template <typename V, typenam...

Who said there's no reflection in C++
user1646075
@chmod711telkitty sneaky bugger is pretending to be a snake!
@aclarke in someone's backyard swimming pool?
user1646075
@chmod711telkitty a sea snake then?
poor thing though, too small to even steal a chicken
user1646075
@chmod711telkitty they should cook it - tastes like chicken (looks like pork)
12:16
I had crocodile meat once, don't remember what it tasted like any more - obviously not too impressive ... not for me anyways
user1646075
@chmod711telkitty fairly standard - if you didn't know you'd think it was lean pork.
user1646075
never tried emu though...
awh, that's mean
user1646075
@corvid hey, it was pretending to be a snake. I don't think it deserves any mercy
user1646075
12:23
@chmod711telkitty awww - first day of school?
@aclarke Melbourne cup day probably ...
@AndyProwl thanks :)
@aclarke alligator is supposed to be good if cooked right, but you don't see much of it outside of the south
user1646075
@Mgetz i'm guessing that's a freshwater croc from here; but probably damn similar. I've had it many years ago, and it was not gamey or difficult. not too easy to find here, although I never go looking...
@LightnessRacesinOrbit no problem
user1646075
12:26
Kangaroo is really good until over-cooked: tender, tender, tender, leather!
user1646075
it's like a fine fillet steak, or a rain boot
like squid then?
lol aussies
@aclarke haha
user1646075
@thecoshman yeah - i guess.
user1646075
koala is illegal. so unfair.
12:29
huh, they rare or something?
user1646075
@thecoshman sort-of actually. In some trouble. Also cuddly.
user1646075
they catch Clamydia would you believe, and it's causing problems.
user1646075
human ear is a delicacy in some parts of the world
user1646075
@aclarke oh yeah, their riddled with it aint they.
TIL 'Koal' is some other way of meaning potassium...
12:33
took this last Saturday
user1646075
@thecoshman I worry about where they're getting it from
the roo tried to steal my food ...
probably just natural.
lots of diseases infect more than one species
@aclarke well... the less we say about the Ozies the better...
also woke up twice by the possums - also tried to steal my food
user1646075
12:37
@thecoshman probably started in Tasmania
user1646075
@chmod711telkitty did you see any drop-bears?
@aclarke I heard you can avoid them by putting vegemite behind your ears ...
user1646075
@chmod711telkitty just don't walk in their territory during mating season.
user1646075
I'm so tired today.
user1646075
12:42
soffa-king tired?
Ell
Ell
Can a T****...**** be converted to a T* ?
sure, just de-reference it that many times.
user1804599
You know.
yes.
user1804599
I'm drinking Dr. Foots, which is fake Dr. Pepper, which is fake Coca-Cola, and it tastes better than Coca-Cola.
12:46
never observed any of them to have any particular taste.
user1804599
Dr. Pepper is terrible though.
I wish they had Italian doctor pepper... like the soda in the glass bottles with all sugar. Corn syrup tastes awful
user1804599
The drink of people without tastebuds.
sbi
sbi
@sehetw @JamesMcNellis I just sent a mail that I'll be working from home today b/c the strike. (BTW, AFAIK, the Bahn pays for hotel costs.)
12:52
I stayed home due to the strike too.
sbi
sbi
@Sofffia You live in Germany??
Nope
Italy
sbi
sbi
Ah, thought so.
And there's a strike in Italy, too?
user1804599
Italy and Germany both end with an Y.
I'm very empathic
user1804599
12:54
So it's the same.
Xeo
Xeo
lol
sbi
sbi
Netherlands and Wastelands both end with ...lands. So they're identical.
user1804599
I live in the Nether!
sbi
sbi
Yeah, we can tell that much.
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean you fell in love with her figure? :)
Well, she is pretty.
sbi
sbi
13:01
@sehe That doesn't sound good. What's wrong?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, I wouldn't deny that. It's just that "fell in love figuratively" can carry another meaning here.
Who are you two guys talking about?
Oh, Jesca Hoop.
Nice Sexy vocal cords.
why does this website say only windows xp, windows vista, solaris, and windows 7 are supported...?
Ell
Ell
@Puppy I meant implicitly sorry
wait. no I didn't
idk what I meant man
get off my back.
Jokesies
@corvid What website?
some oracle website
13:11
Link?
Let's see if it supports Mac
@Sofffia if it's oracle it doesn't support anything but some very specific version of solaris from 5 years ago most likely
it says Mac, but only Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard. Weird.
Also the password reset is completely broken
@sbi Nothing much. I was just fed up with the abuse by LRIO. It's too funny and I'm too weak to take it.
user1804599
@corvid not updated since ages, clearly.
user1804599
Windows 7 is also old.
13:22
Oracle has such awkward interfaces
@corvid You mean, "why does an (old, hasn't been updated since Win7) Oracle website only claim to support variants of the most popular OS on the planet (Windows) as well as Oracle's own proprietary OS (Solaris)?
That's like asking why a Microsoft site from a few years ago only works in IE
Ugh my landlords are annoying
Not only they want cash, they haven't said anything about getting here this month
do you guys use snake case in your C++ projects?
rent another apartment v0v
@AndyProwl Is it snake_case?
yeah (or at least that's what I meant)
13:33
Yup
@CatPlusPlus bank transfers are a convenience, you know.
@AndyProwl I do.
sbi
sbi
@sehe I don't get it.
I have a big project that started out as an experiment outside of my company's codebase, so I used snake case because I prefer it (my company's coding standards enforce camel case). Now I'm supposed to merge it into the company's archive to become official part of the SW we write. And I'm trying to come up with good reasons not to go over the whole code and rename stuff, files, etc.
Xeo
Xeo
> fatal error C1090: PDB API call failed, error code '23' : '(
uh... what
13:37
: '(
sbi
sbi
@AndyProwl Open Source it. Then let the company use it.
Is there a standard way to detect the C++ standard version or the presence/absence of any features introduced with C++11/14/17?
I would like to come up with something like "because snake case is the de facto standard in C++", but I'm afraid (1) it's bullshit, and (2) they won't buy it
Xeo
Xeo
@sbi You can check against __cplusplus__ ... :D
but, no, there isn't.
sbi
sbi
@Xeo How would that detect the standard version?
Damn.
argh
cannot evaluate property because the current method is optimized ... in debug mode.
Xeo
Xeo
13:39
@sbi It's defined to the release date of the standard that the compiler supports. Is supposed to, anyways.
fuck you C#, I thought you were supposed to be better.
sbi
sbi
@Xeo Really? Wow. I suppose the GCC folks would have implemented that. I'll try this.
Xeo
Xeo
hahahaha
@AndyProwl how about "it'd be a huge waste of time for absolutely no gain, it would make it much harder to trace the history of changes, it risks introducing countless new bugs"?
Xeo
Xeo
IIRC GCC defined it to just 1 until sometime ago
13:40
> The comparison with an epsilon value is what most people do (even in game programming).
@Xeo it's __cplusplus though
even in game programming lol
Xeo
Xeo
@AndyProwl right
I forget, because I don't bother
sbi
sbi
@AndyProwl Indeed, this looks more familiar.
@Xeo Ah, we do have an old compiler in the mix...
@jalf sounds convincing
Xeo
Xeo
13:42
The only useful test is against compiler version, or, if you only use Clang / GCC, they have specific feature test preprocessor thingies
You could also use the macros defined in boost, that tell if a feature is available
@Xeo unfortunately that would mean that anybody using CL would be stuck in C++98 (which CL doesn't actually fully implement)
if you're using CL the main strategy is just to compare _MSC_VER against what you need anyway.
@AndyProwl depends on who you're trying to convince, but yeah, I think it's objectively speaking a fairly sane argument :)
You know that your mailing list software sucks when user friendly search looks like this:
wget lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/suds/201{3,4}-{January,February,March,April,May,June,July,August,September,October,November,December}.txt.gz && zgrep -i MTOM *.gz
@TonyTheLion They're a sane way of exchanging large amounts of money
Unlike getting 2k out of an ATM
13:49
Yay Managed to fish out a link from June 2013. Ironically, it links back to SO stackoverflow.com/questions/206154/…
@CatPlusPlus Buttcoin!
Ell
Ell
also bank transfers get put on record
cash transactions don't
using cash for anything above £100 just sounds dodgy to me :3
> SOAPy: Was the "best," but no longer maintained. Does not work on Python 2.5+
Oh hello scripting language that evolve. I never not missed you before
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, and a landlord that wants cash just sounds fishy to me
but maybe the laws are different in Poland
@jalf my boss, mostly, and my colleagues who will be wondering why I am allowed to make exceptions to the coding standard. Also, my position is made worse by the fact that I should have considered the possibility of having the project merged into the company's archive (it was related after all, just not official)
13:53
@sehe You know that your mailing software sucks, because they all do
All 2 of them
So I might just blame myself and take a week to do the renaming
user1804599
@sehe lol
Whatchya doin with SOAP anyway
Washing yourself?
Bah gotta catch a train
I hate travelling so much
user1804599
13:55
Trains are heavy. Good luck.
Stay home
problem solved
Sister's birthday
user1804599
Kitten Plus Plus
A+ very clever
I want to write an IM client, they're all annoying me
13:58
> IsLastErrorConnectionRelated
@AndyProwl true, you probably should have predicted that. But it doesn't change the fact that here and now, making the change pollutes your version control history, and may introduce subtle bugs. :)
dat function name
You think you found one that works and supports all the protocols you care about
And then it stops working
user1804599
> We're very glad that you chose to use SensioLabsInsight “Opensource Plan” to improve the quality of your PHP projects.

Need more from SensioLabsInsight?
By choosing a paid plan you could benefit from really useful features:
And the most annoying bug ever is marked "trivial" and "low priority"
And it's closed source shit so you can't even fix it yourself
user1804599
13:59
Good job. I signed up like an hour ago and I can obviously make that decision already.
@jalf yeah, I hope they'll take this without being to grumpy about my lack of foresight
lol improving quality of PHP projects
Does it convert them to something else
user1804599
I'm not going to tell you what it does since you're going to mock it anyway.
I'm going to mock it anyway anyway
user1804599
user1804599
14:05
OP is a failure.
cppcheck says
> Prefer prefix ++/-- operators for non-primitive types.
for an iterator inside a for in this case
because postfix operators keep the previous value
does the compiler not normally optimize this away?
user1804599
Postfix ++ and -- are abomination.
@Alex when it can possibly. it can't always.
Ell
Ell
hmm. I need a std::hash<std::vector<T>>
Xeo
Xeo
You'll need boost::hash_combine
Ell
Ell
14:17
or even better, boost::hash_range
Yup. Makes it painless.
Xeo
Xeo
oh, right, that exists.
user1804599
You need to smoke lots of hash.
Grep for error:.
Could it be that your vector contains non-hashable elements?
Ell
Ell
@LucDanton it just contains std::type_index. Which I think boost (or stdlib) has a hash for
I'll grep though
14:21
Mmmh it could have a specialization for boost::type_index instead. Kinda far-fetched though.
Look for the error: :) Better than psychic guesses across the interwebs.
Ell
Ell
Will do
mostly rubber ducking really. We ought to have a room for that
Xeo
Xeo
cue "Bathroom<Ducky>"
who is right here, gcc or clang?
(I suspect it's GCC but I'm not sure)
Ell
Ell
I think boost::hash<std::vector<std::type_info>>> should just work
they have a hash for vector and a hash for type info
user1804599
I lost 200 rep today. :[
Ell
Ell
14:49
@rightføld fix this coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/568d1cc7ca6c4af7 and I'll serial upvote :D
@rightføld lol, stop sucking so hard
the only time I ever lost that much was when spam up voting got reversed
user1804599
@Ell Screw serial upvoting.
Ell
Ell
okay, fix it and I'll parallel upvote
user1804599
@thecoshman The only time I lost that much was when I raised a bounty.
user1804599
@Ell lol
user1804599
14:50
I'm a parallel killer!
Xeo
Xeo
@Ell Looks like Coliru's Boost is not 1.56 :P
You can provide a hash_value overload yourself.
Ell
Ell
hmm I think it is BOOST_VERSION = 105600
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's... odd
Ell
Ell
damn you @LightnessRacesinOrbit
lol
a semi-sad lol
@Puppy in javascript as long as the subtraction doesn't give a NaN it will be equal... which means that Math.abs([1] - "") == Math.abs("" - [1]) is absolutely fine
@CatPlusPlus lol lol
0
Q: Does a declaration using "auto" match an extern declaration that uses a concrete type specifier?

Andy ProwlConsider the following program: extern int x; auto x = 42; int main() { } Clang 3.5 accepts it (live demo), GCC 4.9 and VS2013 do not (live demo for the former). Who is right, and where is the correct behavior specified in the C++ Standard?

^ In case someone feels like helping
15:14
@AndyProwl seems malformed, you're breaking the single-definition rule
Oh god. LRIO is on an imgur binge again. Or rather, a spree
@Mgetz ODR is about forbidding duplicate definitions though. The first one is just a declaration
@Mgetz How? Isn't auto technically equivalent to int according to very well-specified deduction rules? It's not like the mangled name or actual type would be observably different (even the debug information will not likely make any distinction. Nobody cares that "auto" was typed)
@sehe because it should conflict with the extern since it's a global, thus it should be rejected as the symbol is already defined and it's not in a subscope (thus eligible for name shadowing)
I'm not saying the standard requires this. But it may cause a rather annoying amount of bugs if the compiler allows it
it's the equivalent of javascript's implicit assignment to window if you forget to use var
This comment by Richard Smith is mildly related - about using auto as the return type of main()
but it's for functions, so different context
15:20
@Mgetz huh? How would you declare an extern and initialize it in another TU? Good luck keeping the extern keyword
@sehe the main issue that I see is that The Well Meaning Programmer does something like that in a header but in separate files, so one file is using the global as intended the other is using a TU local version. Bugs ensue and software crashes.
> eligible for name shadowing
Doesn't sound like anything that actually exists. TU globals or namespace-level symbols have either file-static (local) visibility or external linkage. Anything with the same name and type is by definition the same symbol, unless it's file-static.
@Mgetz There is no file-local declaration/definition at all. Because that would require explicit use of static auto x = 42; or explicit use of an anonymous namespace.
@Mgetz there's no conflict with extern..
This is simply how extern is supposed to be used. The only interesting question is whether a compiler (or the standard) could be bothered by the difference in spelling of the type. (int vs. auto)
and now back to d3.js hell
15:28
@rightføld I only had 30 minutes for my first Karel lecture today, because the professor's intro turned out longer than I anticipated :-(
I only got to slide 6 or something (of 22).
I was expecting 60 minutes or at least 45.
Ok, 7.1.6.4/13 says that for functions GCC would be right
> Redeclarations or specializations of a function or function template with a declared return type that uses a placeholder type shall also use that placeholder, not a deduced type.
I can't seem to find anything related to variables though
@AndyProwl That's only in C++14 and it only relates to functions, an entirely different feature (because the type cannot be deduced for the declaration alone)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yeah - I should have added C++14 tag, I just didn't want to put all the possible versions in there
@AndyProwl goddammit
I agree about functions being a different use case
it's just the closest thing I could find
15:33
well, having just spent a ton of time on this for C++11, even in C++14 I don't think my answer changes much.
I would pretty much just add on what I said a moment ago
OK, I already upvoted
so if I basically want to specify "any C++ version" I should just use the C++ tag?
I guess
I have no idea really
If I were to post it now, I'd probably still include because people watch those for questions on new shiz
and auto is still new shiz, let alone decltype(auto)
sbi
sbi
@Puppy Not for unsigned values...
@LightnessRacesinOrbit indeed that's why I added C++11, and I didn't want to leave out the other tags because they felt necessary
Oh, you hit the max
Well I'd drop . Nobody's going to search for that.
sbi
sbi
15:40
@sehe Not that I should complain, but when more of you leave because of him, then this would be very sad for this room.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit done
Xeo
Xeo
What's happening here, live SEO?
@AndyProwl :)
@Xeo Yes.
SEO?
Did you mean XEO

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