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sbi
7:02 AM
@Mgetz Who cares whether they call the 13th version of Windows (no kidding) the 9th or the 10th?
 
@sbi it'd be nice to see them settle on some sort of pattern though.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes And why didn't you mention this last night, despite a few situations where it would have perfectly fitted into the topic?
 
or just forgoe random numbers at least.
 
sbi
@thecoshman It's are marketing people deciding this. They probably cheer at us ridiculing it.
 
@sbi because it would be news only if he made it there direct.
@sbi probably. got to get your kicks where you can.
 
sbi
7:05 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes And you did not envision I'd find out anyway?
@thecoshman I'd suggest you have another try at that statement, whatever it's meant to be.
 
user1646075
@thecoshman "Doesn't matter what they say, as long as they're talking about us"
 
@sbi lol, it wasn't that bad.
ooh... I think lights just flickered in an ominous way...
 
sbi
@thecoshman Bad enough that now that you fixed it I think "Ahh, that's what he meant..."
@OMGtechy That's a queer domain name.
 
@sbi maybe it's just a bit too early for your addled brain
 
sbi
> I had a splendid evening meeting up with @tweetsbi, @martinfernandes, @GeorgFritzsche, and @cpp_theo here in Berlin. Much beer was drank :-) – JamesMcNellis
When I woke up this morning (15mins before the alarm went off, mind you!), I felt like I had displaced my head.
 
7:09 AM
@sbi called it :P
good night then?
@sbi oooh, don't you just hate those 15 minutes
 
sbi
@thecoshman No, the opposite: I wish I had them!
 
@sbi but how can you enjoy them?
 
sbi
@thecoshman I would enjoy spending them on more sleep.
 
but ooh yeah, discworld, liking very much liking it so far.
picked up Moving Pictures for €2 from a charity table in shop the other week, then stumbled on Sorcery for £1 in random book store in london.
 
sbi
@thecoshman Oh, those. He's gotten much better since then.
 
7:14 AM
@sbi well I've got plenty to look forward to then :)
 
sbi
I got hooked by Small Gods. I'm not sure whether I am biased, but I believe it's still one of the best of the early ones.
 
I'm just going to pick them up randomly as I stumble over them.
 
sbi
@thecoshman There's several series in them. You can read them in any random order, but you'd get more out of them when you read them in the "correct" ordering.
Wait a minute, there was...
 
Cat linked me toa reading guide thingy
 
sbi
Ah, look:
 
7:17 AM
the very same
also started 2000AD :P
which is a worryingly huge amount of previous stuff to read :S
 
sbi
At the very least, stick to order of the watch, the witches, and the death series. Those I think are important. If you read the others out of order you don't miss all that much.
@thecoshman What's that?
 
@sbi weekly sci-fi comic that's being going for nearly 40 years now. Home of Judge Dread
 
sbi
Shrug.
 
@sbi well, I'll probably try to favour the 'right' order. I've got other stuff to read too, so I can sit of things fairly well.
 
sbi
@thecoshman I have never tried sitting on books. We have chairs around here for that.
 
7:20 AM
@sbi ¬_¬ I feel the condensation... wait... not that word... help please.
 
sbi
@thecoshman ???
 
@sbi I find the best place to keep things you don't want to lose is under you.
@sbi you know, that patronising in a bad/mean way.
opposed to wet windows :P
 
sbi
@thecoshman So you're always on top? Doesn't she find that boring?
@thecoshman Dry doors?
 
@sbi stop doing that word I can't spell. @R.MartinhoFernandes help! you can speak me, what' that word I'm trying to say?
@sbi best, not only.
 
sbi
@thecoshman The word you can't spell? Would that be orthography?
 
7:23 AM
> condescending
a ha!
stop being that!
 
sbi
looks it up in the dictionary...
 
> having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.
 
sbi
Yeah, I got that by now.
And you find it condescending when I shrug? That seems weird.
 
A picture is not made with a single brush stroke... except for silly modern art...
any way, as much as I love entertaining your ego, I've got to head to work :P
 
sbi
@thecoshman I like how you forgot the "no" in the first version of this. Other than that, I can't find anything noteworthy in that sentence. What are you struggling to say?
@thecoshman Ha! I'm already there.
Wow, I just F5'ed and I still see the same tagline as three days ago! What's this room come to?!
 
7:30 AM
we are stuck in the past, refusing to get old
 
sbi
Well, good luck with trying that.
 
@sbi That's awesome.
 
sbi
@VáclavZeman lspace.org.
 
@sbi I will have to look at that later today. Corporate network does not let me in. :(
 
sbi
@VáclavZeman But the corporate network lets you into SO's chat, where the folly is infinite? Yeah, that makes sense...
 
7:39 AM
@sbi Well, I suspect the chat. prefix is below their resolution. :)
 
sbi
@VáclavZeman Below their horizon?
 
I actually started visiting this chat because I cannot get to IRC. Otherwise I would have been still on #C++@{IRCNet,EFNet,FreeNode}
@sbi That too.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Hahaha, awesome.
Same for Shimakaze
Not for Yukikaze
 
7:54 AM
What are these characters from?
 
sbi
Japan?
 
Anime/Manga
or game
 
Xeo
A browser game
Kan-Colle (Kantai Collection)
 
ah
 
sbi
Well, I'm at work and can't chat all the time. After all, there's also personal emails I will have to answer. bows out
 
8:04 AM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: ook? [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
@sbi better?
 
you forgot ook. and ook!
 
KISS
my arse
 
no thanks, gotta work
 
sure
we all work :P
 
8:39 AM
some work harder than others
 
some work smarter than others
 
user1804599
FUUUUUCK
 
what
man, puppy really is a responsible employee
3
I guess it fits his tsundere type
 
@AlexM. nah, just baby faced
 
user1804599
I'm so stupid.
7
 
8:47 AM
Good morning
 
user1804599
Why the fuck did I choose to use Python instead of something sane like PHP or Scala for this project dammit.
2
 
user1804599
Fuck this retarded duck typing philosophy.
 
typing while quacking?
 
user1804599
Can't switch anymore because there's already like 6kLOC.
 
yay, my mother and grandma will come visit me this weekend
the apartment will get cleaned up 2 times as fast
 
8:49 AM
@sbi what on earth is a "Young Adult Novel". I get interesting associations there
@rightfold yeah, cause PHP clearly doesn't do duck typing. They do "Fuck typing"
 
@sehe probably something about relationships with vampires or some crap like that
 
user1804599
You can specify parameter types in PHP and they are checked.
 
@sehe the last harry potter books for example
 
They are silently coerced in impossible ways, right
 
the last one is particularly grim
 
8:52 AM
So, what's Y/A about it
 
it's not a children's book
but it doesn't exactly deal with full adult themes
it's somewhere in-between
 
@sehe A novel written for young adults?
 
Well. Blimey. Since when did such a distinction exist?
Maybe I was a young adult at 12. That would explain
 
twlight? ... can't imagine a 60 yo reading the series, but it isn't for kids either ...
 
What distinction?
Human lifespans have always had distinct periods.
 
user1804599
8:55 AM
@sehe custom types aren't except from to string.
 
user1804599
Which isn't that much of a problem.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes not really.
 
Yes, really, fuck off.
 
I think another good way to spot young adult novels is to look at the main characters and stuff; chances are they'll deal with teenagers and their lives
 
The notion of teenagers is a fairly modern thing
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh sure, alive, then dead.
 
user1804599
8:56 AM
The earlier you fail the better. Preferably at compile-time, of course, but I'm fine with at call time, but everything is better than somewhere buried in the callee when accessing a field or method.
 
Who said anything about teenagers?
 
I believe every main character in twilight is a teenager for example
 
"Young adult" doesn't refer to adolescents.
It refers to adults.
(I know, right?)
 
by young adult I understand something between 18 and 25 yo
I call 18 yo people teenagers too lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, but such a term is not really been of much use. Also, the age which one would be considered 'adult' is not a constant. To us we would probably say 18+ is adult.
 
8:58 AM
@thecoshman It has been of a lot of use. Just look around the world.
@thecoshman Adulthood is clearly distinct from adolescence. I don't see what's there to argue.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes and young adults never struck me as a distinctive period
What on earth is the difference between a YA and just a regular adult? I must have missed it
 
AFAIK there was not some decree aeons ago that once a human reaches exactly a certain age, it should suddenly be considered an adult. It's fuzzy, and changes over time.
 
personally I think books for young adults contain adult themes, but without showing to the audience the full spectrum of the world: i.e. there are only good and evil & nothing in between
 
I wonder if anyone uses the term "old adult"
 
I guess I get partially offended by the notion that books need to be especially written for "underdeveloped people"?
7 mins ago, by sehe
Maybe I was a young adult at 12. That would explain
@AlexM. ripe
 
9:02 AM
why do you see it meaning "underdeveloped people"?
 
Grown up adult
 
@sehe Young adults are people going to through the beginning of adulthood. What comes next is not "regular adult", it's middle age.
 
@AlexM. What else would need to change in the content? Except to cater for some form of (imagined) immaturity?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah. So, for me Young Adult === Adult.
 
7 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
It refers to adults.
 
:)
 
9:04 AM
Middle aged people are still adults.
 
Thanks, that makes a little bit more sense. Though I could still feel irked by "Books for the Middle Aged"
 
it's just about the book dealing with themes that are more likely to be appreciated by people who are moving from teenage to adulthood
that's how I see it
 
romance, fantasy etc ...
 
That's precisely what I think is wrong with this shit. Books seem to be demoted to "just" entertainment, that way
 
@sehe FWIW, the distinction (when made from a writing perspective; fuck marketing) is about the themes that are dealt with.
 
9:05 AM
I think coming of age is a great theme for young adults
 
@sehe "demoted to entertainment"? what does that mean?
 
People have a tendency to relate and enjoy themes that are the make up of their lives.
 
I enjoy it too, been enjoying it since... 11th grade
 
@thecoshman not upgraded
 
but any book without depth is just entertainment, if it doesn't entertain & doesn't educate, then why would anyone read it?
 
9:06 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes So, why label it "Books for Young Adults", when really it could be "Books about Young Adult themes"?
 
I will probably switch to another favorite theme as I grow older
 
best project i wrote in C++ so far: github.com/Jermim/3D
 
@sehe Fuck marketing :|
 
It's not far from "Toys for girls" and "Toys for boys"
@R.MartinhoFernandes <shakes-hand/>
 
sbi
@thecoshman Not if it keeps being stuck at this for a couple of days again.
@sehe It's a novel for young adults. And, yes, they are good. I read them all. :)
 
9:09 AM
@sehe is your point the fact that the term sort of makes the book seem not appropriate for adults?
 
I hate when people tell you what to be. Or more importantly: what you cannot be.
You cannot be interested in signal processing at 12 y/o (the librarian will quietly goad you back to the children's department).
 
@sehe because it's a book for them, not just some random book that happens to have a character mildly related to them.
 
sbi
@sehe You don't have teenage kids, do you?
 
also book for young adults tend to not show the darkest corner of human kind: you know the torture murderers, the sadists etc - after all evil queen just want the princess to disappear, not suffer for a life time
 
One cannot be reading about different religions at 9. That is, not unless papered in pretty pictures and political correct agenda
 
9:09 AM
@sbi "young adults" you mean
 
@sbi I don't. Why? I was talking from my own experience mainly
 
@thecoshman FFS, no.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes FFS, joke.
 
@thecoshman Apparently the part of "young adults" you don't understand is the "adults".
 
I sure think I used to qualify as teenager once. However, I definitely never fit into these marketing labels
 
sbi
9:11 AM
@chmod711telkitty I read the series. But then I read almost all books I intent to give to my kids. Some I then won't give to the kids, because I consider them too bad. These were all pretty good, though.
 
@thecoshman that demotes joking to attention grabbing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes actually, the 'young adult' genre is for the crossing point, so teenagers, probably more girls, would read that genre too.
 
sbi
@sehe If you had kids in the right age frame, you knew why these books are a good fit for them.
 
@sbi I still do. But I really can't keep up with my daughter. She simply reads all day
 
They are your 'coming of age' books.
 
sbi
9:12 AM
@sehe Yeah, here, too. Also, when they go and buy their own books, I'm out of the loop.
 
@sbi 'bad' in terms of themes or general quality?
 
sbi
@thecoshman Yes, definitely.
:)
 
oh, talking younger kids.
 
@sbi Ok. I would certainly think that the contents of the book would speak a lot more to that, but I guess the point is that it can be mighty handy for parents to zoom in on potentially interesting lecture. I guess, that's precisely what I never had. Which lead to me - delightfully - reading everything. Including boring and bad stuff.
 
sbi
@sehe You don't need to fit into marketing labels in order to enjoy those books. WTF, I'm about as far from "young adult" as you can get and I bought all the Tiffany Aching books for me, too, because I consider them very good books.
 
9:15 AM
@sbi :) I love reading to them. A nice mix of "innocent" (the entertaining part, which can be really fun if well written) and classics (though it can be hard to read certain passages of "Uncle Tom's Cabin" or "Sans Famille" (H.Malot))
 
@sbi maybe you're just trying to escape :P
 
@sbi Putting them on an imaginary list right now
 
WTF!?
Can any one please test that central.maven.org/maven2/net/sf/json-lib/json-lib/2.3/… returns 404?
 
yes
 
@Rapptz Yes to 404?
 
sbi
9:18 AM
@sehe FWIW, I just read this book. I am still wondering whether to give this to my daughter for her birthday, which probably is not a good idea. But I am absolutely sure that it is not a good fit for her younger brother. In recent years, my daughter has read a lot of what is classified as Y/A, and some of that I enjoyed to. Much of it, though, is not what I am interested in anymore.
 
yup
 
Thanks.
Phew.
I was running insane from my dependencies in Groovy not resolving and not knowing why...
 
sbi
@sehe Yeah, I still read to my 10yo, even though he reads on his own mostly. We both like it.
@sehe They are really good.
@thecoshman Is there any other reason to read novels?
Anyway, back to reviewing other people's code...
 
@sbi About bad books....
I finished a "beginning readers" book this summer (for the youngest, obv.) - purely on willpower. It was... Well. It was intended to be funny - because all kinds of stuff happened that will never happen in real life, but the morale... Boy boy. Apparently not everyone likes books to encourage thought, life skills, question social norms and generally, think critically.
@sbi Good luck. Bring a machete and dry food.
 
@sehe lol
 
9:22 AM
Phineas P. Gage (1823 – May 21, 1860) was an American railroad construction foreman remembered for his improbable:19 survival of a rock-blasting accident in which a large iron rod was driven completely through his head, destroying much of his brain's left frontal lobe, and for that injury's reported effects on his personality and behavior over the remaining twelve years of his life—effects so profound that (for a time at least) friends saw him as "no longer Gage." Long known as "the American Crowbar Case"—once termed "the case which more than all others is calculated to excite our wonder, impair...
 
since we're on about books, any Jules Verne readers here?
I remember talking about it with my literature teacher in high school and she was like
"meh that's SF for kids, let me give you some real SF"
 
I read a lot of Verne when I was younger.
 
I was like, fuck you bitch, Verne is adult as fuck
 
@VáclavZeman It was okay on the superficial level. The structure was nicely predictable, there was a lot of repetition - so that aids the beginning learned, of course - without making it directionless. I guess it wasn't the worst. But... I have taken two times to explain why I didn't like the book :)
 
I'd probably agree with her, though. The SFness in Verne is really meh.
 
9:23 AM
I appreciated how easy it was to follow the action
I'd never get bored and the characters were pleasant
wasn't that interested in the SF bit
which was... not exactly present in what I've read
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's on the list! Daughter did "Le petit prince" by herself (twice, at least)
 
@AlexM. I liked the books, sort of, but I like stuff from Asimov, Herbert, Banks, etc., orders of magnitude better.
 
What characters? There's Nemo, and then everyone else in his novels is rather bland and unexplored.
Ok, not totally fair.
 
@sehe Few years ago I have read a book about "lazy parenting." (I cannot find a link right now.) And I, too, finished it on pure will power just because it was a birthday gift or some such. I disagree with 90 % of it.
 
9:27 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea is actually a book I never read
now that you mention it, the characters aren't exactly memorable
but as I said, they were pleasant, which means I never had any issues wrt them while reading their stories
@VáclavZeman that's a bit too hardcore for me
the foundation by asimov was complex enough to make me run away within the first few bits
 
@VáclavZeman Have you read any non-SF Banks?
(i.e. the ones he wrote as "Iain Banks", not "Iain M. Banks")
 
I like easier to read books... which probably explains why the last books I really enjoyed reading were these cross-overs between pirates and vampires, aimed at children lol
actually, fuck being aimed at children, those books were young adult as fuck
since I enjoyed them
and I'm a young adult
 
@VáclavZeman Don't you love that. Yeah, I've done several such books. But this was different, it being reading for the kid
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ew. I guess it's true what they say:
> The end which entered [Gage's cheek] first is pointed; the taper being [twelve] inches [30 cm] long ... circumstances to which the patient perhaps owes his life. The iron is unlike any other, and was made by a neighbouring blacksmith to please the fancy of its owner.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nope. I have read some synopsis of some of his books but found those too...scary, serious.
 
^ Good tooling is essential
 
9:36 AM
@VáclavZeman The Wasp Factory is great.
But yes, it is really disturbing.
 
@thecoshman yea right :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am not sure that I want to try anything worse...
 
@sbi ergh... erm... to spoil the ending for others?
 
@VáclavZeman Spoilers, dude.
I really like Use of Weapons.
 
Too late. Bin the message. :)
 
9:43 AM
@VáclavZeman Though that's the beginning, I guess.
Hidden spoilers.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ok, I've read about the plot
what.
 
@djechlin: I fail to see what America has to do with it. Neither the question OP nor the author of this answer is from America. It's just you. Did you know that not everybody is from America? Fun fact of the day! — Lightness Races in Orbit 47 secs ago
whistles
 
@AlexM. Did you read it on wikipedia or something?
Because the summary on wikipedia is actually missing the most disturbing parts.
 
:D
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes
I wonder what kind of sick mind can output such things
 
9:49 AM
Frank killed three people already by the time the book takes place.
Not by accident.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's in the back cover of the book, and it's like, in the first page or so.
 
the story of his brother in the asylum or w/e would have been more of my kind of horror
 
There are descriptions of the murders later on, but you get to know he's a child murderer right from the start.
 
people employ too much surrealism when they write horror stories imo
for me a realistic depiction of an insane person in an asylum is enough
 
9:54 AM
The Wasp Factory is not horror.
 
mostly because it's something that's both scary and possible
@R.MartinhoFernandes really, that's how it looked to me
> In terms of genre it fits into the Gothic Literature due to its exploration of death, mortality and arguably presentations of the monstrous.
 
When I read it, I felt it was a lot more about understanding Frank's messed-upness than it was about shock and fear.
 
Dawn of the dead (2004) was so romantic - others say it's a horror, but I reckon it was at least partially romance ...
 
> The Irish Times called it "a work of unparalleled depravity"
 
Anyway, unless you're really squishy about animal cruelty, violence, and murder, I highly recommend it.
 
10:02 AM
@TonyTheLion sounds like a good read.
 
yeah I'm not into any themes like that
Poirot and Sherlock Holmes are as much as I like to get into murders
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes blurb... oh, 'in'?
 
so, just at the border of things, and from a non-direct perspective
 
@thecoshman Nah, 'on'.
 
lol, linkedin managed to be funny today
 
10:04 AM
> It's in the back cover
 
@thecoshman So? I meant 'on'.
 
but yeah, if you meant 'on the back cover', you meant blurb.
 
@AlexM. dat resolution
 
@Sofffia dat jpg
 
Xeo
2
Q: What are factors in evaluating the fitness of a security questions?

blundersAttempting to understand the key factors in evaluating the fitness of security questions. By security questions, I mean for example: What was the name of your first pet? In what city was [insert someone] born? What was [insert someone] maiden name? What is your preferred internet password?

> What is your preferred internet password?
lol
 
10:07 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Right, so not only have you spoiled the first page, but also the back cover. Gee, thanks, dude!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit just post a picture of a broken in book.
well, maybe not, that might be a bit too far.
 
The Rust people are considering allowing struct Foo {} and possibly giving up on struct Foo;.
 
Rust is most fun when combined with Aluminium :D
 
user1804599
Slack is borked dammit.
 
do we still have that Slack instance up and running?
 
user1804599
10:14 AM
It's SaaS, so we don't.
 
sure... but do we still have that instance up and running?
 
user1804599
It's SaaS, so we don't.
 
user1804599
And apparently Slack doesn't either, since it's down.
 
what part of this are you failing to grasp?
Is the Slack instance/project/area/version/group that we had 'provisioned' for us still available (bar service downtime of course). Has it perhaps expired, or been 'closed' or 'returned'?
 
grrr
 
10:18 AM
Fuck me you are an awkward shit when you want to be.
 
just random nullpointerexception and a traceback
this is as bad as reading C++ template instantiation stacks.
except those are at least immutable
 
welcome to the world of work.
 
At work, there are only 2 types of programs: the ones that do what it supposed to do, and those that don't
 
user1804599
lol null
 
user1804599
java.util.Optional<T> ftw!
 
10:28 AM
meh, optional
 
I've been using boost::optional quite a lot lately
 
user1804599
What is meh about Optional?
 
it really makes things so much nicer when something has to return some object or nothing at all
 
user1804599
(Apart from it being a reference type.)
 
v.s. dunno, nullptrs or some special constant defined by me
 
user1804599
10:29 AM
Being explicit about nullability is good.
 
I don't like how untransparent it is at point of use
 
@rightfold Reference type?
 
@rightfold yeah I guess.
 
@Sofffia a type you can look up in the documentation
 
I try to use it as long as it makes sense though
 
user1804599
10:30 AM
And operations like map and getOrElse are pretty useful.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
 
I mean there has to be some line between optionals to signal issues and exceptions
 
Speaking of java, it's interesting to find out that: 'float distance = 60;' works but 'float distance = 60.0;' doesn't compile
 
(since you can use an optional's uninitialized value to signal that something went wrong)
 
user1804599
@AlexM. Optional has other uses than returning.
 
10:32 AM
I guess
 
the likes of ifPresent() looks nice.
 
user1804599
case class User(id: UserID, name: Name, phoneNumber: Option[PhoneNumber] /* Option rules! */)
 
Ell
@chmod711telkitty yeah it's kinda silly
 
@rightfold What's the problem?
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ?
 
10:46 AM
@AlexM. Look up expected<T>.
 
@Rapptz ooh, so it's like optional but instead of an unitialized value it holds an exception
that's actually interesting
I'll read about it
 
Xeo
@AlexM. Either!
 
@Rapptz I guess this should be the best thing to "read" then: channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/…
from what I saw he presents expected<T> there
 
yeah it's Andrei's talkpoint
 
there's something that's bugging me about Andrei
is there some sort of point in your life after which it's impossible to adopt a new accent when you learn a new language?
I mean Andrei has been living in the US for what, 15 years now?
and his English sounds exactly like how I'd imagine English would sound if spoken by a Romanian
 
Ell
10:54 AM
I like his accent
 
it's definitely understandable, but it sounds different
like, if I just moved to the US right now, would it be impossible for me to adopt a clean accent?
he sure makes it look like it
 

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