« first day (1427 days earlier)      last day (3747 days later) » 

23:00
Is there something wrong with SDL or something?
Just saying :)
What's so bad about SDL isn't it supposed by Valve and stuff?
@sehe it prints Bartek
@BartekBanachewicz Only 6 seconds after the question :)
23:00
Cinch: Having a sprite pool is great. But the Lua scripts probably don't care if the sprites come from a pool, and probably shouldn't know.
Yes, but I'm sure the Lua scripts care if the sprite is a SDL_Texture*
@StackedCrooked See, we're all seasoned programmers enough to know this
Ell
Ell
@cinch valve suggest using SDL to get an opengl window
Well shit it's OpenGL
Ell
Ell
I think that is all they endorse it for. I can't rmemeber thou
23:01
Should I be using OpenGL?...
@Cinch also one last tip take a look at corona's api
Might get some ideas there
Why would the script care if a sprite has a texture or procedural generation by shaders or whatever?
Maybe Love2D too
@BartekBanachewicz How does that even fit in
If he's talking about Lua scripts knowinf about implementation details...
23:02
Aha
Those apis are showing how to abstract platform details for lua in a really nice way
I really enjoyed working with both of them
Maybe the problems @Cinch are having stem from misunderstanding of the border
I looked at the Corona example
Hm...
How about I just start using Sol and come back later?
Bartek Sol is header only right?
@BenVoigt ew
@Cinch he created it ask him ^
Rapptz you worked on Sol?
23:06
Anyway I really should get going
Gnight folks.
Sleep well
It's header-only right? And is it compatable with mobile platforms?
Everyone is patable these days.
Not everyone is placable though
@Cinch Don't know.
@Rapptz k thanks
23:08
It's written in standard C++ and the allocated memory is handled Lua side.
Boost required?
So, that's a very high chance of portability
(assuming "not even boost" implies "no hairier dependencies")
I don't like writing libraries with dependencies
usually anyway
who does. It kinda changes when you have to cater for SSL, crypto, compression, .NET etc.
23:10
yeah
hence 'usually'
don't know what I'd do without dependencies.
some things are unavoidable
it'd be one thing to re-write Boost.UUID, and another to rewrite LLVM&Clang.
Ell
Ell
I don't usually finish anything so dependencies generally aren't a problem
So can someone explain to me why inheritance is bad?
23:11
I sometimes but it depends.
Ell
Ell
But when I do, it usually has dependencies
no.
Ell
Ell
@cinch strong coupling
Hm. Is that necessarily a bad thing?
strong is better than weak. right?
Ell
Ell
23:13
@stackedcrooked you want as little coupling as possible
no.
Ell
Ell
I thought :P
I suppose that mine works fine though
Ell
Ell
Its been a while since I've read code complete :L
@Ell Yeah, I've been single for a while now.
23:13
How else would I structure my GUI component system?
no.
@Ell Just finished that last night for the first time.
you completed the code
My code is never completed. There's always some feature or tweak to make...
By the way, would you say creating a working GUI system within SDL with moveable buttons and textboxes is a good start for a newbie programmer?
23:15
Anyway time for Yu Yu Hakusho.
no.
"is that the only word you know? no?"
wait for it…
@StackedCrooked it's awesome
my favorite shounen
it's surprisingly applicable.
23:16
@Cinch A kernel is a good start. Or a compiler perhaps.
it had a good soundtrack too youtube.com/watch?v=63oL09IgLKs
Ell
Ell
@cinch IMHO, GUI is a very difficult problem to solve well/nicely
I still don't know what ideal code would look like
I have yet to observe any GUI systems I would consider to be well written.
Ell
Ell
Me too
@Ell I would read like Mozart.
23:17
perhaps we should add "GUI programmers" to the "game programmers" bucket
@StackedCrooked How did Mozart read?
Or you mean, like Mozart does now?
Well I need your opinion on how to structure my code
^ no you don't
I charge for that now
@sehe Decomposition eh.
23:18
Deconstruction FTW
Well you see...
I've kind of written my prototype over 5 or 6 times and I only have a moveable window with buttons
only 5 or 6 times? lol
I don't want to go back to scratch once I figure out that some integral part of the system simply doens't work
you will figure it out and you will go back to scratch more than once in the future.
that is part of the evolution of any given person's understanding of how to tackle any given problem.
if you don't think that 90% of your codebase is shit, you haven't learned enough since you wrote it.
It's so small though lol...
23:21
@Cinch It's rarely like that. It's more like you find out that a particular usage scenario leads to annoying patterns
then starting over from scratch won't be a big deal
nice fast iteration times
@Cinch That's another good sign, actually.
22 mins ago, by sehe
@Cinch Ah, the first signs are there: you realize that's odd. You'll get there
@Cinch Use spaces, not tabs.
...Can't I just set my tab to make spaces?
no.
23:22
No you must press the space bar four times.
@Cinch But your editor can.
That's just basic diligence.
@StackedCrooked How to annoy your colleagues the most
I always press the space bar four times.
but then I always use Caps Lock for every single capital letter.
Erm, I was working earlier today. But now I'm slightly tired.
23:24
Picturing the puppy as a motor-challenged, over-sized boy slumped over a '80s keyboard
I use tabs because that's what VS uses by default
GET OUT
you definitely suck.
Change it to spaces before I kick-mute you motherfucker.
23:25
@Puppy coming from the guy that couldn't make anything else to work, so stuck with VS, that means a lot :)
fuck, I should have kept it a secret
@sehe Really? Didn't know I could compile Wide for Linux from VS on Windows.
Okay uh want to hear about a game?
@AlexM. Oh. Wait till we tell LRIO
definitely not.
23:26
Fine then. General question: what's a good way to structure a plugin-system?
Would Lua do that sufficiently?
@Puppy Oh, so you managed to install linux after all :)
Or say, extensibility?
@Cinch Yes
@Cinch Start with spaces. No tabs man.
@StackedCrooked Hush. Kick-mute can be used against owners
23:27
Okay, because the plan was to make my game open source and then allow people to create their own mission packs and stuff
Alright, I get it. I'll watch some anime.
let me tell you a thing I've learned
Oooh. Sitting tight
By the way
most games do not make useful extensibility systems in Lua.
23:28
Well what do they make it in?
the vast majority of them are either written in C++ and you can customize the UI in Lua
or they just write the game in Lua.
er
not.. even close to remotely true
Well I'm making my underlying framework C++
And then I wanted to add a scripting language to manage higher-level things
As a sort of short-hand basically
uh huh
So in the end, the let's say I write a misison script in Lua
23:30
It's gonna be crap anyway.
@Rapptz I thought Lua was rather popular (and successful) for extending game logic and adding scripted behaviour
It'll define the files you need to load for the mission, including portraits, dialogue files, units, etc.
@sehe It is.
I'll probably switch to spaces once something bad happens to me, as usual
And then you load the resource files in
yeah, doesn't Civ V use Lua?
23:31
all of the game systems I've seen that tried to use Lua to extend their actual game logic either ended up writing the game in Lua or you couldn't actually do much from Lua at all
But the mods in Civ V seem to do well enough
@Cinch yes it seems so
I'm also developing a tile-based turn-based strategy game
they abandoned Civ IV's python for lua
@Cinch A lot of games do
23:33
So I was gonna just use Lua as my editing tool, basically
I had fun using LOVE for a while, until I got bored of moving sprites on a screen
heard it's getting a mobile port so that may act in its favor
the market for very limited 2D game engines on Windows PCs is quite small
Yes, but I'm planning to make the game avaliable on mobile for free as well
separate logic from presentation as much as possible
share it between Corona SDK and LOVE
aaah
I remember when I was young like you.
modify only presentation for each platform
23:35
I did equally pointless things.
well he ain't gotta do what I say
if you have better ideas, sure
that's what I'd do
But ... but ... people do pointless things at all ages ...
LOVE doesn't seem to work for mobile
... yeah, that was the point of my message
I'm rolling my own GUI for mobile; it works with my own laptop's touchscreen so it should do fine right?
And if I map all actions to only mouse presses then it should map well right?
23:36
no.
faaaaaaar worse, it'd seem :)
At least this guy is here asking for (painful) advice, and persisting even though everyone has thrown troll all over his head
and definitely no.
Well why not?
I can even drag using the touch api in SDL
@Cinch Touch gestures are more than glorified mouse gestures.
because mobile screens have totally different aspect ratios, performance metrics, DPIs, sizes, and shapes.
23:37
@Cinch you can't map multitouch to mouse presses
True, but all I need to log is the point of contact and point of departure
I don't have multitouch in the game
or maybe I do...
also they have multitouch and if you don't then you're broken.
no, but your user will be able to touch multiple things at once
@sehe Eh, I'd say that the-thing-that-became-Kryostat was equally pointless.
so you will have to ignore multiple touches somehow, depending on how you get input from the device
23:38
Ah, SDL has multitouch supp
that'll be good
you should really use something like Unity.
fuck all this engine crap and get cracking on making an actual game that's fun to use.
I'm also coding for my own knowledge man
I'm a computer engineering major
@Puppy indeed, but hardly in your youth
trust me when I say, the only knowledge you'll gain from this is an understanding of how little you could have achieved.
I attempted a vaguely-similar project once too.
Ell
Ell
@puppy I disagree
23:39
@Puppy And that's priceless
But I've alread earned so much!
it's simply a question of scale and developing a fun game requires a great many hours.
Ell
Ell
I dont think most games are made in unity
far more than any one person could put in.
unless you want to spend five years of your life writing it, and then the result to be a pile of technical garbage (but a fun game).
By the way, if I do bind Lua to C++, I should do it in a header file or a cpp file?
23:40
@Puppy some people enjoy working on the same thing for a very long time
I don't know a good way to organize it
Ell
Ell
Also just because that's all you learned when you attempted it once it doesn't mean the same for this guy
the reality is that you can't really effectively re-invent an engine technology any more than I could re-invent Clang.
there's this guy writing his own voxel engine on gd.se and he hopes he'll never finish it
because it's so fun
yeah, but I don't really get that vibe, because this guy is all about how he wants people to have fun with his game.
and all I'm saying is, one person to get a fun game with a good technical base requires an incredible effort- multiple years at least- even if you start from an existing technology like Unity.
if you reinvent the wheel at the same time, you'll never get anywhere.
better to narrow the goal down a lot, to something more achievable, and re-use existing solutions as much as you can to achieve it.
23:44
yeah in that case something like unity is a better choice
I did that and now I have a real thing that I can be proud to say that I created.
aside from the effort, I also noticed 2 things may happen (and have happened to me) when you build your own tech for your own game that you've planned
1) You think of this awesome new feature you could add to your game if you just implemented X in your engine... and start implementing it. repeat;
Ell
Ell
3!
2) You cut features down because it's too hard to implement them or it's not worth the effort.
Ell
Ell
Go
23:46
@Ell Why factorial?
Ell
Ell
Faculty?
OMG YES I JUST IMPLEMENTED LUA IN C++
SO COOL
in both situations your final product kinda suffers, with 1) you risk not finishing it anytime soon, with 2) you just get half of the product you intentioned to have
Uh by the way
23:47
@Ell slip up from Dutch
What do Linux distribs use in pLACE OF dll?
Or does DLL work on Linux?
Shared libraries, aka .so
@Cinch With Wine, some do winehq.org
So does ANdroid use .so?
Becaus it's linux?
Ell
Ell
@sehe ah :) it was a countdown! (Or count up rather)
@Cinch Yes
23:48
Ah I see.
This all seems so complicated
Ell
Ell
Everyone knows that the third count is a factorial. Its simply tradition :P
I still can't figure out how to build libraries
There's roughly the POSIX oses vs Windows in the market
@Cinch It is
@Cinch Books & SO are your friends
@Ell was I the only guy giving serious advice there
I'm trying to look for a suitable IDE
Besides Code::Blocks that can also handle Lua
and Push a button to compile
is there one?
Ell
Ell
23:49
I'm really tired
Night folks :)
Tomorrow I'll check dutch universities
Why?!
I emailed the local university here about finishing my degree
guess they weren't too interested
@Cinch Do you really want an IDE with /a button/ to compile?
Ell
Ell
I find that calling universities tends to work better than emails
hmph
23:51
going to the secretary works even better than calling
> Who was in charge of the demonic British empire? Jews and Masons. Just like the current US empire. 
seems like most of society isn't in the digital age
they can't avoid you there
I should stop reading YouTube comments.
Yes I need the button
23:51
In any IDE, compilation should be so frequent that it's either automatic in the background, or shortcut key triggered
the British were dicks at that time, but honestly, so was everybody else.
and I don't think that the dick-ness involved in the British Empire was notably greater than other examples of aggressive colonization and enslaving the locals.

« first day (1427 days earlier)      last day (3747 days later) »