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do you guys ever voice chat?
odd
@OmnipotentEntity I've never seen or heard of that before.
@OmnipotentEntity to. dat url
@Puppy like, talking on a mic?
just curious
we have a Mumble
18:07
@Puppy Can anyone join?
Temporarily we don't have a Mumble
we had a Mumble.
it's been some time since I used it though
Ell
Ell
I want to try webdev
idk what is terrible but I have a feeling everything is terrible
@Ell you should consult the cat
@Ell terrible.
18:14
coliru down
dammit
can't even login over ssh
@StackedCrooked He's obviously already been hanging around the cat too much.
@StackedCrooked On the upside, it literally went down about five seconds before I posted that message, since I was playing with my tutorials thingies and submitting various examples.
@Puppy Probably reboot and disk integrity check
18:17
hmm
Oh hey prototype builds of the new UT
base := base(x, y, z), or something like base := (x, y, z)?
Yep, it's doing a disk check. Might takes a few minutes.
This only happens every 100 re-mounts.
or perhaps I should permit something like base := x, y, z directly.
Xeo
Xeo
that looks like a hack
18:19
@StackedCrooked So what you're saying is that an hour passed
@Xeo Which one?
Xeo
Xeo
anyways, yay, back from the GC
An hour is one mount.
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy anything but base := base(...)
@Puppy former because latter is ewww ewww horrieww.
18:20
@Xeo It's trivial for me to guarantee the elision of any move/whatever, so I was just thinking about the syntactic feeling.
Unless it assigns base to a 3-tuple.
It's finished now.
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy yes. and my syntactic feeling for base := (x, y, z) and base := x, y, z screams HAAAACK
@StackedCrooked Your setup is not very good :v
fair enough.
18:22
@CatPlusPlus don't use it then
Ell
Ell
what is base?
a base type.
@Ell A miserable little pile of members
@Ell and who is phone!?
@Xeo As a side effect, I'd have to get around to finally implementing that improved error handling, else for abstract bases it would fail when you try to construct base like that.
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy hm. Y'know, maybe := just doesn't work for bases
Ell
Ell
is base a tuple of base classes?
no.
Ell
Ell
is that why you can just assign it or something
I think I'm just missing something :P
@Xeo I had to introduce := for bases.
the problem is that C++'s qualified-name ( expressions ) syntax doesn't really work when you simply don't have qualified names.
18:26
> to buy a Kanye West CD
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy I mean as a mechanic
Ah, yeah, what would you expect of such people?
Xeo
Xeo
I can imagine that := didn't work out-of-the-box for bases
it did.
if you have base := x, then base's constructor is called with x directly.
Xeo
Xeo
Okay, lemme try again
You found out that base := base(...), without special hacks, causes trouble for abstract bases. You acknowledged that base := (...) and base := ... scream "HACK" aswell.
so maybe you should just step away from := for bases
18:30
well, I'm not terri-happy with members either, they have a similar problem.
even though you don't have the issue of abstract members, people will bitch about performance of moves if you don't guarantee elision, and duplicating the type won't win many friends.
I could think about using tuples that I unpack, I guess.
something like base := { a, b, c }.
problem is I kinda just swapped one special case for another, since unpacking is not the current behaviour of tuples.
What "base" are you guys talking about?
Ell
Ell
@Jefffrey setting the base class in wide
for a class to inherit
an arbitrary base class for some arbitrary user-defined type.
What does base := (...) have anything to do with inheritance? Isn't := for object initialization (object := type)?
yep.
and in a constructor, then base is an object.
which needs to be initialized.
Ell
Ell
18:36
is wide structuraly typed or nomanaly?
I can't spell
@Jefffrey := is for everything.
I can't remember which is which.
Ell
Ell
@Puppy nominal is c++, structural is haskell
Haskell isn't structurally typed.
that thing where all types that contain two ints are the same type is batshit insane.
18:37
Go has a partially structural type system.
Haskell has a nominal type system.
Ell
Ell
Oh. I thought haskell was structural
I prefer nominal type systems, although structural types can be useful in some cases.
Ell
Ell
@Puppy that's structural
It doesn't sound batshit insane
it is absolutely batshit insane.
containing two integers is an implementation detail.
Ell
Ell
of a type?
18:39
yep
well, obviously the user can make it public if they want to.
but conceptually, it's an implementation detail.
Ell
Ell
I don't think it is
this is a level higher right
well, you're wrong.
I'm with Puppy on this.
a thing can be stored in many different ways and changing the type system based on what means you used to store it is absolutely fucking crazy.
Ell
Ell
It's not about storage only
there are lots of different types
18:41
I guess that if I create a type that holds three int*s, then it should be randomly totally the same type as std::vector<int>, depending on the implementation details of std::vector.
Ell
Ell
OCaml is structural by names and types of methods
nothing could possibly go wrong.
Structural interfaces can be very useful.
But it should not be forced upon one, and not be the default.
right.
Ell
Ell
interface A {
    void foo();
}
interface B {
    void foo();
}
18:42
it's one thing to say, "This type is nothing more than the sum of its parts".
and we already have that, it's called "A tuple".
Ell
Ell
are A and B not equal types?
You guys mean that struct vector2d { int x, y; } and struct range { int from, to; } should be the same type?
@Ell Clearly not.
@Ell It depends on the programming language.
after all, A::foo()'s postconditions are that the nuclear missiles are fired, and B::foo()'s postconditions are that the freezer is turned off.
Ell
Ell
18:42
@PolymorphicPotato pseudo language :)
@Puppy Good point
@Jefffrey Could be, but that would be extremely silly.
struct a { int x, y; }; and struct b { int x, y; }; would be the same.
@Ell Depends on the type system of said pseudo-language.
rsync output is so bad
Ell
Ell
@PolymorphicPotato I was just wondering what puppy thought the answer should be really
in fact
in Wide you can have opaque types where you don't know what the member variables are.
Ell
Ell
18:44
@Puppy what does a wide class look like again?
@Ell Type. Not class.
Ell
Ell
wide doesn't have classes?
why would I?
they're frontloaded with irrelevant baggage.
Ell
Ell
they are useful to store code and data next to each other :p
there's nothing a "class" can do that a "struct" or a "record" or anything else cannot do.
unless you're fucking crazy, anyway.
Ell
Ell
18:46
I'm talking about classes in the OOP sense
you can consider a Wide UDT as a class if you want.
Ell
Ell
okay, what does a UDT look like in wide?
the syntax isn't really dissimilar to C++ in most ways.
Xeo
Xeo
Hmm. Playing SpeedRunners against the devs and beating them was fun.
I've got type t { x := int; y := int; } right now.
18:47
@Puppy Underwater Demolition Team?
user-defined type.
right
Ell
Ell
and a type with inheritance looks like
choose the bottom example from the dropdown.
speaking of which, I need to push a new version sometime soon.
in fact that's exactly what I was working on before I got side-tracked in The Lounge :P
throw throw throw forever
18:49
1
A: C++ - Static Assignment in Initialization

Lightness Races in OrbitShort answer: because the standard says so. Long answer: that's not an assignment, but an initialisation, and it's ignored because the standard says so.

full answer right there
genius
What's the type of a string literal in Wide? @Puppy
Ell
Ell
@Puppy This might be because of old version but "Constructor and Destructor" example doesn't compile
I found a watch dogs tshirt that I liked
@Jefffrey Currently, each string literal has a distinct type, which is broken.
18:50
@PolymorphicPotato heh
@Puppy What's the plan? std.string?
@Ell Nah, I forgot a closing brace, I think. That example's been broken for a while. I've made changes to most of the pages.
now hopefully I won't also have to get slimmer to get in it
@AlexM. there goes my sleep
18:51
@Ell lol
> Expected ( after dynamic identifier to introduce dynamic member function.
the size is right but the cotton is very flexible-ish
Ell
Ell
@Puppy Oh yeah I see it now
and I'm afraid it will just show my... uh.. curves
Ell
Ell
you ought to monospace those text boxes :P
18:51
@AlexM. your manboobs? lol
@AlexM. curves r hot!!11
@Jefffrey For the immediate future, it'll be something like const char*. For the longer future, it depends on what library features I end up with, but I intend that it'll be a proper string thing, not const char*.
@StackedCrooked I'm more worried about my belly
mine is quite big. I prefer non-elastic material as well.
3
I think beer bellies are immensely sexy as long as they're not hanging over the legs.
18:53
That's only because you have one, fatso
ah, speaking of which, I finally found that bug where the line and column are always reported as the same value.
@PolymorphicPotato easy now (so you don't have to re-account again)
I .. don't really have an opinion about that.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, most of the parser errors are a bit WTF right now.
in fact, errors in general are due for an overhaul soon.
Static Initialization Order Fatso
18:55
I'm gonna be rock solid a couple of weeks now, mountain hiking season.
@JohanLarsson can't you put the ", mountain hiking season" in another message?
@Puppy Still better than MSVC
kek
I put on about ~13kg since drugs meant I could eat again.
I need to get that shit back off.
@Jefffrey why? I don't see the star worthy dumb in the first part.
Embrace the fat
18:57
no.
I'm always rock solid. Nobody's gonna get me down
I suffered enough to get to my previous relatively-fat-free state.
I want it back.
I always rock.
I'm a rock
shut up marvin
Ell
Ell
18:58
I'm a bit chubby for my liking
need to exercise more
@LightnessRacesinOrbit and also dumb as a rock.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that was ASUS' slogan
rock solid heart touching or something like that lol
> Asus has, I am sad to report, abandoned its motto, "Rock Solid. Heart Touching". At CeBIT this year, the PC manufacturer unveiled the far less evocative "Inspiring Innovation. Persistent Perfection". Let's see how the rest of the press conference goes.
this was in 2009
the only ASUS components I've ever had were bought in 2007
@LightnessRacesinOrbit so maybe that's why I remember the slogan
hmm
maybe I should change type to this.
that might be better.
type() : this := stuff {} for delegating constructor.
19:11
Why is bool a subclass of int. :<
Oh backwards compatibility cancer.
I wonder why they didn't fix that in Python 3.
@PolymorphicPotato can i answer your question . ?
no.
answering questions is forbidden.
i want to say an answer that is probably wrong that's why i want his permission
my answer can crash his mind
i'm so noob
7
19:16
huh?
its
the user you're referring to is a potato and thus does not have a gender.
lol
I want to master Python.
anyway , what came to my mind is true = 1 and false = 0; 1 and 0 are ints , please don't laugh
I already answered the question myself.
6 mins ago, by Polymorphic Potato
Oh backwards compatibility cancer.
@Puppy genderless potato being SO user is amazing
19:20
ye i know
I should get a gravatar.
why are we posting potatoes?
Ell
Ell
lol
it's not a pootato it's @PolymorphicPotato avatar
19:26
@redaa wat
That is bullshit.
no, I'm pretty positive it's a potato
It is clearly not my avatar.
mr redaa
are you trying to lie to us?
mr redaa we don't take kindly to people deceiving us
@redaa true and false are booleans, 0 and 1 are natural numbers
19:27
yes , but i used to represent true with 1 and false with 0
and i still do it sometimes in C
@Jefffrey Python had no Booleans in the past, so 0 and 1 were used instead.
@redaa And?
Now bool is a subtype of int for backwards compatibility with that.
C had no booleans up to a point
And now that it does nobody uses them. :)
19:29
i'm still writing programs with no booleans in C
@Puppy Words have gender. People have sex.
C is bad, your choice of programming language is bad and you should feel bad.
@redaa Why are you writing in C? Are they holding a gun to your head?
@JerryCoffin Not all of us.
@Jefffrey school, i wwrote a game with no booleans
19:30
@Puppy lol
vagrant is pretty easy to setup
@redaa anyone writing C without <stdbool.h> should feel bad enough they are writing in C, and then worse because they are ignoring a very useful header
it was a year ago and i didn't know about <stdbool.h>
> i'm a C#, PHP, Android, JAVA apprentice developer, i'm also so noob :/ trying to get better every f*****g day.
for f**k sake
I'm a sober developer and that means unhappy developer
19:34
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
doom 3 bfg reduced my steam library size by 1 instead of increasing it by 1
:\
@PolymorphicPotato How to get a lot better in one easy lesson: quit using PHP. Lesson 2: quit using JAVA (or Java, for that matter).
i really need to change this description
@JerryCoffin Lesson 3: stop being a noob
@redaa don't
it fits your profile
19:35
Lesson 4: stop using asterisks
@Jefffrey That takes care of itself, given sufficient time and effort.
Lesson 5: seriously, stop using asterisks
@AlexM. why you saying that ?
bbecause
19:37
iits my intuition
you don't even know me ...
There we go
is that the the chorus of a song?
@Jefffrey Why? You want him to overload some other operator to do multiplication?
19:38
"YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'VE BEEN TROUGH"
US ARMY SEALS
kids, behave yourselves
US ARMY MANATEES
@JerryCoffin Yes, operator&
@AlexM. US ARMY SEAL OF APPROVAL
19:38
@TonyTheLion Why should we start now?
@PolymorphicPotato US Navy SEALs of approval. navy.mil/local/nrdsd/images/web_140510-N-UB993-020.jpg
@Puppy because reasons
@PolymorphicPotato yes
19:42
@PolymorphicPotato lol
@Fanael aahahh
user784668
@PolymorphicPotato Should I merge it?
@PolymorphicPotato I find your lack of gravatar disturbing.
I added a gravatar earlier today.
You just have to wait until they stop caching everything.
19:44
Damnit
@Fanael fr 'waiting for background operation to finish'
@PolymorphicPotato if only I was as slim as that guy
May I recommend this gravatar?
no.
no you may not.
19:45
actually in all honesty, the problem with me lies with not being able to talk to strangers in any way unless I obviously have no interest in them
holy fucking shit dude seriously, let him go.
there are plenty of girls who start interacting with me
stop fucking harassing the guy
including smiles and winks
but I run away lol
19:46
@Puppy why are you so defensive with him, I gotta ask
Aw dammit I must've reloaded the page and the stupid flag reporter went away
@Jefffrey puppyfold?
rightpuppy?
I think my avatar matches my location.
@CatPlusPlus isn't it a good thing?
No I mean the script that reports who flagged that shit
19:47
@PolymorphicPotato a carpet shop?
@Jefffrey Didn't realize I needed an excuse to think that another human being can make their own decisions without being endlessly pissed on.
@CatPlusPlus oh, didn't know you have that
@Puppy you are overreacting
inb4 i'm overbeing a dick
@CatPlusPlus how does it work?
The better question is "does it work?"
19:50
I better stop flagging random shit.
or 'will it ever work?'
@Jefffrey There shouldn't be anything of this nature for me to react to.
Speaking of Stack Overflow, I should answer more questions so that I can downvote crap.
@Jefffrey it's a nice anime actually
@JohanLarsson Reads the information that the client receives but doesn't display
Because chat is Coded Very Well (tm)
19:52
lol
"Vagrant" always reminds me of viagra
that's why I find the command "vagrant up" hilarious
Is it worth it to install win8 on laptop? I want more battery life.
> laptop [...] battery life
lol epic fail.
@JohanLarsson compared to... what?
what do you mean?
battery life make sense only for laptop (as opposed to desktops)
19:55
@AlexM. win7
I get probably 5% more battery than on win 7
Prolly the screen that drains the battery any way.
and 60% more battery than on xubuntu
@Jefffrey Someone hasn't heard of UPS
19:56
@CatPlusPlus who is it?
@StackedCrooked Santa
it's the agency that sends new batteries to your home
The spec says 8 hours, ~3 in practice. 4+ if the screen low in brightness.
My ~~~~~~~~~VAIO~~~~~~~~~ holds about 2h if the stars align
19:58
why is everything a link on this page
Because it's a dictionary

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