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7:00 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I disagree. It's the same basic principle as downvoting for every other reason. It's just that you can't downvote people in chat directly so you have to be a bit more circuitous, which is strictly not the fault of the dumper but that's another matter.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You are only competent person here. Thank you for your help. Now everything works
 
@Ty221 Tbh, unless you are a "regular" (which means you have been here more than 3 times without asking questions and show to care for this community) any random pasting of questions is automatically a downvote for me. I find it extremely rude and it's the only way I know to discourage this behavior.
 
@Puppy You have to make a difference between the author and what he writes.
Voting on a question or answer is not about the author.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Right, which is why it's annoying that you can't downvote chat messages, because that's what should be downvoted.
 
@Puppy Then just plonk the guy.
 
7:02 PM
not really the same thing.
 
@Jefffrey Fragment of FAQ:
When should I vote down?

**Use your downvotes whenever you encounter an egregiously sloppy, no-effort-expended post, or an answer that is clearly and perhaps dangerously incorrect.**
You have a limited number of votes per day, and answer down-votes cost you a tiny bit of reputation on top of that; use them wisely.
 
there's a reason that on the main site, you downvote questions instead of ignoring questioners.
 
@Puppy Yes, but you don't downvote people.
 
@Ty221 A fragment from this chat's FAQ:
> Well, we are a small community after all, and now it seems you have to earn your "right to ask" in the Lounge by becoming part of that community. If you don't have time for that, or don't care for that, then go on Stack Overflow instead.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, I don't want to, but since I can't downvote the content I want to downvote, then I've gotta be a smidgeon creative.
 
7:03 PM
Which of course you didn't care to read.
 
@Ty221 Look, if you want us to help you, then you have to show that you care about us. Otherwise, why should we care about you?
 
Because there's tomalak.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Ahaha I can see how much everyone in here cares about each other.
 
@Puppy That's fucking stupid; you're claiming to be downvoting people but you're downvoting posts and doing so for reasons that have nothing to do with the post content. Fool.
@Ty221 You are very welcome.
bblz
 
@Ty221 The Lounge is not a helpdesk. SO chats were invented for real time socialization and coordination of work, in case you didn't know.
 
7:05 PM
@EtiennedeMartel He's been entirely courteous the entire time, especially seeing how he's been treated. Let's lay off it.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Chat doesn't exactly offer any compelling alternatives.
 
@Puppy The alternative is to keep your nonsense downvote to yourself.
 
not gonna happen.
 
lol
 
Yay found a key.
 
7:06 PM
You have found multiple keys apparently.
"y", "a", "f", "o", ...
 
It's a touchscreen. BAM
Now I'll get some ice cream on the way back.
 
(stollen from @sbi)
 
Does anyone see this reflection proposal succeeding?
 
@chris no
 
@chris Not a chance in hell.
 
7:11 PM
What exactly are we looking for in reflection?
 
me? nothing
 
a compelling use case that isn't bindings or something.
 
If nothing else, at least it works without the crappy stuff you have to litter your code with to achieve it.
 
right now, generating e.g. bindings to script languages is the only use case I've seen.
else I have never seen any compelling uses for it.
 
I think we'd come up with some good uses for enumerations given time.
Although seeing as how we have some preprocessor stuff for enums right now, maybe not, idk.
 
7:13 PM
@chris Dynamic instantiation and invoking.
 
something like AOP would be nice though, for logging shite
 
And runtime type description.
 
If we have to think hard to find use cases, it's not that useful
 
@EtiennedeMartel Haven't seen any compelling use cases for doing that.
 
@Puppy When's the last time you had to do your own factory to link some sort of type name to a constructor?
 
7:14 PM
I want proper compile-time type introspection and stuff (more type traits, more other stuff)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Never.
 
With proper compile-time type support, anyone can write its own reflection library, if needed.
 
or I might have done it once to bind classes to Lua a long time ago.
 
I don't see any reflection proposal passing
 
I see dead people.
 
user3010322
7:17 PM
There's 1 person on the flection committee, last I checked a few months ago.
 
user3010322
1 person wrote a compile-time reflection extension for clang.
 
user3010322
They didn't make a proposal, though, even though the syntax was pretty bossitude.
 
honestly, in Wide I can implement all the reflection I want, but I haven't because I'm just not feeling the use of it.
the closest I've gotten is simple traits like copyable and such.
 
Especially if there's "the syntax" involved, I don't see a reflection proposal passing
 
@Puppy buzzwords to attract managers?
 
7:18 PM
ObjectManager
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes When I say "the syntax", I meant that it just relied on basic things like having iterator-enabled, compile-time containers that allowed you to walk over the list of desired objects and glean any information you want from them (copyable, destructible, is pointer, member functions, static/free functions, etc.)
 
user3010322
Not that it actually physically changed the C++ keywords / syntax to do special things.
 
user3010322
It was implemented like regular type_traits, just on steroids.
 
But then again, many things accepted lately are naught but syntax.
 
7:22 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I agree. Shit like variable templates is fuckin' embarrassing.
 
user3010322
Variable templates has 1 use to me that I actually like a lot and troubled me while I was writing my raytraycer.
 
So maybe that's what you need to have a reflection proposal pass: add more syntax.
 
@ThePhD Nothing you couldn't do already with constexpr.
 
user1804599
abstract override is awesome.
 
@Puppy I do rather like the _v things.
 
7:24 PM
@chris You suck.
oh!
 
Does MSVC support variable templates and not constexpr, btw?
 
user3010322
I don't think it's on their radar...
 
except in Wide, I do have a relatively critical use case for slightly more reflection
which would be exporting.
I haven't gotten around to implementing it yet, but I'm planning on something like [export := t.members.f].
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This seems to be new.
 
right now you have to do [export := t().f] which is bad.
 
7:25 PM
Recipe for successful C++ proposal: no functionality + syntax = success.
 
dude gets owned by a truck's tire (gif) i.imgur.com/YvhRi5F.gif
 
g'evening
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I checked it. It's not there and its no on their radar just yet either.
 
Oh well at least constexpr is first.
Actually no.
I wish they didn't work on constexpr.
They should add support for the features they claim to already support first.
Variadic templates my ass.
 
... so erm...
 
7:28 PM
Vari-ICE-ic templates
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes the best kind of ICEs, surely.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes a relative?
6
 
@thecoshman first time I hear about a link between coat hangers and self abortions
 
fucking robots
 
Dammit. The strawberry ICE cream here has seeds in it.
 
7:34 PM
speaking of abortions, performing abortions on others was a flourishing business in communist Romania
 
The fuck is wrong with people.
 
abortions were illegal as the state tried hard to force everyone to make as many kids as possible
 
@AlexM. I've seen it on Family Guy once. I tried to find the video, but came up with this:
Seeing the title of the video, I decided not to click on it :)
 
a wrong decision
that video made my life complete now
 
7:36 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes They're Germans.
 
The police is still around but they don't block the path to the cake shop!
I'm happy again.
 
GO GO CAPTAIN CAKE
 
Cake shop closes at 19, though.
Wait.
Now I remember I went there at lunch today.
 
user1804599
> How to Poop While Standing up at a Toilet
 
7:56 PM
@rightfold Isn't that how everybody does that?
What sane person would sit down on a toilet? Eek.
 
user1804599
Female programmers.
 
@FredOverflow I thought everyone squatted.
 
user1804599
Without neckbeards.
 
user1804599
@chris Everyone jarsquatted.
 
Hi.
 
8:04 PM
Ok. Time to test the torque on this baby.
I'm gonna put my safety goggles on just for cools.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wuss. I bet you do bounds-checks on arrays, too!
 
user1804599
Not doing bounds checking on arrays is retarded.
 
man, tv license people in the UK are the most annoying ever. Some guy comes to "check my license at my home", finds out I'm not home, leaves a letter starting with the following: Our records show this address does not have a TV license. As you have not responded to our previous letters, we have begun an investigation into your property. What previous letters??? I haven't seen a single letter from them regarding this. Urgh
 
lol tv license
 
8:11 PM
@TonyTheLion That explains why you didn't respond.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Exactly, though I don't like the accusatory tone of this letter.
 
Do you guys think writing functors for functions is silly?
 
TV license?
what is that?
 
its a fee you have to pay when you watch live broadcast tv
or record broadcast TV as it is being broadcast
 
and you have to prove you own it?
is that some sort of DRM police IRL?
 
8:14 PM
No. You have to pay.
 
yea, you get a unique number when you pay their fee
 
TV isn't free. Simple.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes but the letter says they think he doesn't have a TV license
 
Because he hasn't paid?
 
but I don't watch TV, and I told them this, a while back, and they dutifully acknowledged this
 
8:15 PM
which means they check(ed) for it?
 
TV isn't free here either but Comcast et al don't come knocking at my door if I don't pay my bills.
They just cut off my service
 
It's public TV.
 
so it's like the national television?
 
Oh boy, drawing proposal.
 
8:16 PM
We have public TV too (e.g. PBS) but you still have to pay Comcast or any cable provider for it.
 
the fee for national TV and radio here is asked for on electricity bills
and it's like $2 each month
or maybe less
 
@AlexM. you have to pay if you watch broadcast programs as they are being broadcast or record them. If you watch things after they were broadcast, you don't have to pay
TV license here is 145 GBP per year
 
yeah TV doesn't work like that in Romania
sounds all alien to me
 
Belgium has a similar system to here, iirc
so its not foreign to me
 
@TonyTheLion The worst part is that most of what you're paying for is utter crap.
 
8:18 PM
There is that too
 
> The licence fee in Romania for a household is 48 RON (€ 11.27) per annum.[52] Small businesses pay about €45 and large businesses about € 150. The licence fee is collected as part of the electricity bill. The licence fee makes up part of Televiziunea Română's funding, with the rest coming from advertising and government grants.
So you guys don't get ads right?
 
PBS doesn't have ads
 
AFAICT not as much as in the US, though.
 
lol
 
8:20 PM
Well, BBC doesn't have ads
that's who you pay that TV licensing to
 
@Rapptz Oh.
I guess all the ads are on the other channels then.
Wait, what.
 
In US watching TV is annoying, ads almost every 10 mins
I don't know how they deal with it
 
We get commercials twice in a 30 minute syndicate.
 
that's a lot
 
The 5th minute into it, and the ~18th or so minute into it.
 
user1804599
8:22 PM
AdBlock nub.
 
Commercial breaks last about 3 minutes.
It's illegal to have an advertisement run for more than a minute.
 
@Rapptz we do get ads
who watches them tho lol
I mean who watches TV
I don't
 
@rightfold that doesn't work on broadcast TV
nub
 
but I still have to pay
 
user1804599
lol broadcast TV
 
user1804599
8:23 PM
if u watch it ur a nub
 
thanks, I don't watch it
 
user1804599
 
Why pay for the license then?
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes I've filed many bugs for Variadics. STL has too. We're both hammering on the compiler team.
 
@Rapptz I don't, but somehow the license people think that I should, and instead of just asking me if I watch TV, they immediately went into threat mode.
 
user3010322
8:24 PM
What I just realized, though, is that the compiler team has absolutely no fucking incentive to make a good C++ compiler whatsoever.
 
you're forced to pay it here
but it's cheap so nobody minds
 
@ThePhD incentive.
 
not here, though they do try
 
@TonyTheLion They are extremely aggressive.
 
user3010322
@Rapptz Thanks.
 
8:25 PM
@Puppy Yep. Not the first time I've seen this
 
students get hit the worst, though.
in a student hall, technically every room is it's own legal thingy and they all have to pay separately
 
user3010322
Either way, their compiler is still written in C. They haven't switched to C++ like GCC or Clang. I can't imagine the terror that is their massive codebase.
 
so students are legendary for not paying when they legally should.
 
they probably try the most vulnerable ones first
 
user3010322
... Except, I can, because I got a glimpse of their overload resolution file.
 
8:25 PM
but
what you gotta remember is that they actually have a very high legal standard to actually do anything about it.
 
@Rapptz They have no intensive either :P
 
that's one of the reasons why they act so aggressive.
 
@Puppy what do you mean?
 
they have to literally catch you in the act or something.
 
lol yeah
 
8:26 PM
@ThePhD Did you see James's presentation on updating legacy code?
 
oh I see
 
@chris I watched that. The only thing I really learned from it is that Microsoft's code is beyond shit.
 
they want to scare people into paying because if you don't pay, there's not a great deal they can really do about it.
 
@TonyTheLion Good call. I hate watching TV.
 
@Rapptz I'm trying to find the picture I took.
 
8:27 PM
@FredOverflow same here
 
I've always totally ignored them and they've threatened inspections and stuff, but never gone through on it.
 
heh, good to know
 
 
James even mentioned that it wasn't all of it because he couldn't get it to fit or something.
 
8:30 PM
Eek
get that off my screen
 
Hmmm, I have another issue, my secondary monitor keeps flashing on and off
I recently updated my graphics drivers, so I suspect perhaps I have a dodgy power cable or maybe HDMI cable
mostly happens while watching full screen Youtube video
 
most often just a loose cable IME
inb4 you're a loose cable
 
@Puppy In CERN's experience too.
 
8:34 PM
@ThePhD I'd give writing a C++ compiler a crack if I wasn't already working on Wide.
it really pisses me off when I can't offer features because Clang doesn't support them.
 
Hmm, not a single budge :(
checks for loose cables
Wait.
Motor doesn't budge even without load.
Oh.
I wired it wrong.
 
lol
 
Xeo
@Puppy what
 
@Xeo Incremental re-analysis, for example.
 
Xeo
What exactly stops you from implementing it?
 
user3010322
8:41 PM
He'd have to go down and figure out the insanity that is the Clang internals to implement things.
 
user3010322
@Puppy Reading through the Variable Templates proposal, it actually adds no new syntax.
 
user3010322
It just makes something that should logically work... ... work.
 
Xeo
meh variable templates
boring
 
@Xeo Because Clang can't incrementally re-analyse.
 
user3010322
It's not an exciting feature.
 
Xeo
8:43 PM
@Puppy what. that sounds wrong
 
user3010322
But it is a consistent one. It doesn't even provide any breaking changes.
 
if you write Wide code that instantiates a C++ template, then you change it, then I'd have to re-load the TU, from scratch, and re-calculate virtually every access to it.
 
Xeo
it's a feature that took time that could've been invested in better features
 
so basically there would be nothing incremental about it.
 
Xeo
oh right, C++ code
 
8:44 PM
in fact, I think that I may have already broken it.
 
Man Yoko Ono sounds terrible.
What is she still doing
Jesus it's awful.
 
Now it vibrates but nothing moves.
 
This is...
 
8:47 PM
I need a bigger boat motor.
 
Xeo
ITT: Robot Invasion not actually a threat, Robot not able to mechanically replicate.
 
Yeah it's fucking awful.
It's so bad.
I don't even know why I'm watching this
 
user3010322
> I am a Master C++ programmer.
 
:(
Off to eBay I go.
 
user3010322
I love the way I've started this e-mail. :D
 
user3010322
8:52 PM
@Rapptz You don't mind if I say I helped with sol publicly, right?
 
no
 
user3010322
Well, I'll add that too.~
 
user3010322
If STL read this e-mail he'd probably be dying of laughter, knowing how much of a noob I am.
 
40 mins ago, by Rapptz
Do you guys think writing functors for functions is silly?
 
user3010322
All functions should decay to functors.
 
user3010322
8:55 PM
All the goddamn time.
 
Xeo
[]teehee
 
user3010322
QUIT MOCKING ME ;~;
 
user3010322
I'm sorry I didn't defend the paper I didn't have the money ;~;
 
@Xeo Yeah this is sorta the reason why.
Functors are easy to pass in
 
user3010322
They're also the only thing that resolve works on in MSVC. ._.
 
Xeo
8:56 PM
Stop writing normal functions then :D
 
user3010322
I need an auto_functor thing.
 
in RapphD, 16 hours ago, by Rapptz
http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/3227d5388bcb40ef
 
Xeo
my ranges-as-lambdas sends greetings
 
Every other motor costs 5-10 times as much as these two together.
:<
 
@ThePhD Those already exist. They're called lambdas :v
Syntactic sugar to make functors.
 
user3010322
8:58 PM
Too much work.
 
user3010322
I have to specify the arguments and everything.
 
user3010322
Terrible, really.
 
You're terrible
 
what
 
@ThePhD auto foo = [](auto x) {return x;};
 
8:59 PM
@MohammadAliBaydoun good evening. You called?
 
@sehe Good evening sehe! How's it going? c:
@sehe Last time I was in here, you were having back problems
 

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