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user1804599
19:00
Why can I not fork my own Gist.
Take paracetamol or somethin
Yes, Cat wants you to take drugs.
@DeadMG 39.5 last time I checked, and regarding other symptoms I just feel very fatigue, the "standing up is a hard"-kind of tired
39.5 Celsius?
you say that as if I should know something.
user1804599
19:02
No, 39.5 Fahrenheit.
Why are you not in hospital yet
@CatPlusPlus what? I've had higher fevers before without going to the hospital
@CatPlusPlus I think 39.5 F would be worse, but 39.5 C would be bad either way
user1804599
You usually don’t have to go to a hospital at 39.5 C.
19:03
I really don't know the Fwhatever scale
user1804599
But giving your doctor a visit may not be a very bad idea if this persists.
But 40C is close to lethal
So you're either dead or suck at measuring your body's temperature
@CatPlusPlus erhm, not it's not? or well.. depends on what you consider close to
@CatPlusPlus avg F body temp is 98.6. So you would probably be excessively dead at 39.5 F
Xeo
Xeo
Fuck your Fahrenheit
5
19:04
Use real units goddammit
user1804599
Kelvin!
just googled, seems like most "gov health sites" recommend going to the doctor at 40C
Hyperthermia is elevated body temperature due to failed thermoregulation that occurs when a body produces or absorbs more heat than it dissipates. Extreme temperature elevation then becomes a medical emergency requiring immediate treatment to prevent disability or death. The most common causes include heat stroke and adverse reactions to drugs. The former is an acute temperature elevation caused by exposure to excessive heat, or combination of heat and humidity, that overwhelms the heat-regulating mechanisms. The latter is a relatively rare side effect of many drugs, particularly thos...
user1804599
@FilipRoséen-refp Now visit a Russian gov health site. They advice you to drink vodka.
40 is really really bad
19:06
@rightfold I'll take @CatPlusPlus advice and take some paracetamol, I wonder why I didn't think of this sooner
user1804599
Paracetamol is good stuff.
user1804599
Also XTC.
Vodka > paracetamol.
@FilipRoséen-refp It is high enough for some people to get a circulation collaps. (Most get a collaps at 41 or 42)
Protip: don't take medical advice from robots
19:07
Well there goes Objective C out the window and Swift in for Apple.
user1804599
Oh wot.
The fuck is Swift
user1804599
They removed Objective-C? About time.
Aren't you guys watching Apple's developer conference?
19:08
@DemCodeLines what
The millions of lines of Objective-C code are now gone!
No, we're not.
what the fuck
Why on Earth would we watch Apple's developer conference
It will now use "Swift"
Never heard of it before, but just another language to learn...
And all the old code magically disappears!
19:08
type inference
Xeo
Xeo
Bartek likes it already
> functional patterns
> optional types
user1804599
@DemCodeLines where can you watch it?
Keep him away from it.
> REPL
> Tuples
19:09
@Arcoth I don't know what that is, but I'll just go to sleep for a while.. maybe that will help
user1804599
REPL is a language feature?
@BartekBanachewicz KILLER FEATURE
Xeo
Xeo
19:10
> The company says that Swift apps are significantly faster than Objective-C apps, outperforming them by over 93x.
lol
it doesn't look totally bad, but it doesn't look very good either
Xeo
Xeo
ahahahahaha
how they arrived at the "93x"
yeah right
Barket proffesional opinion™: Nay.
@Xeo lol
RC4, the most important benchmark of them all
for me it looks like this time Apple is making it a definitive "we're making weird shit up just to bind developers to our technology"
Clearly the next gen language will have RC4 as core intrinsic
I think you need quicktime to watch it on apple's site or something like that
there's no practical use in inventing a totally new language.
@BartekBanachewicz No way
Apple trying to vendor-lock people??
user1804599
inb4 they should’ve used Haskell.
@BartekBanachewicz Apple just did.
@DemCodeLines and what the fuck did I just say?
19:13
> Overly torelantism strikes back. Soon and there will be gay,lezbian and transsexuals superheroes. Thats sad.
Ah, YouTube.
@BartekBanachewicz I know I'm agreeing with you... :|
so yeah let's boycott that thing and point out flaws in it.
and laugh and bash
user1804599
Hmm, Yosemite.
If we know where to find it in the first place
@BartekBanachewicz Uh
Anyway it doesn't change much from Obj-C, because Apple is p much the only thing using Obj-C in the world
19:15
Well, at least we are all in the same boat, having to learn a brand new language
Gimme an hour
@CatPlusPlus for what now
a detailed Swift-vs-Obj-C analysis?
a Monet reproduction?
The vast time investment needed to learn a NEW LANGUAGE
@DemCodeLines what? I'm not learning it.
also what @Cat said
learning new languages when you know 20 already is nothing
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, I meant people in general
19:16
it's just "it has features A, B and C, and here's the syntax - OK"
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz it’s fun.
@DemCodeLines which again is nothing close of the same boat.
user1804599
I should learn Prolog.
@rightfold Prolog is fun.
I like it.
Paradigm shifts take time
19:17
I have to learn scala for an interview exercise. Worth it?
I thought Prolog was not Haskell
Scala is weird
@R.MartinhoFernandes and who said I like nothing but Haskell? I praised F# today basically.
@R.MartinhoFernandes job interview
19:18
@BartekBanachewicz How unpredictable :v
@SamDeHaan you can't learn a language for a job interview
No. For the "for an interview" part, not the Scala part.
@CatPlusPlus shh
@BartekBanachewicz Sure you can
@BartekBanachewicz you can learn enough of the syntax to solve a simple problem.
19:18
well if you know 20 already as we established
but you won't learn idioms :v
user1804599
@SamDeHaan Scala is fun.
It's an exercise done outside of the actual interview. So I can google idioms.
let's post code examples as images
19:20
Cool implicit arguments
@BartekBanachewicz Imagine if Apple made you pay to download that itunes book for swift
It's like regression from Ruby
Good job
@DemCodeLines I am not sure if I can care less about it.
19:20
@BartekBanachewicz er mah gerd, I don't need to type semi-colons? My life is complete.
@CatPlusPlus lmao
@SamDeHaan reasonable languages don't need semicolons
But hey there's an upside
user1804599
Oh look, there’s already a book about Swift lol.
I so don't care about semicolons anymore
> the latest research on programming languages
Or layout-based syntax. Meh
19:21
people have finally realized that REPL is an useful thing even if you compile to native code
OMG they're stuck in the 70s
People have realised that 20 years ago
It's just C/C++ that's stuck in the ice age :v
> Swift takes the best features from the C and Objective-C languages. It includes low-level primitives such as types
2
not kidding, that's what it says.
user1804599
19:22
lolwat
Who wrote that?
I've no fucking idea
> Designed for Safety
>
> Swift eliminates entire classes of unsafe code. Variables are always initialized before use, arrays and integers are checked for overflow, and memory is managed automatically. **Syntax is tuned to make it easy to define your intent — for example, simple three-character keywords define a variable (var) or constant (let).**
Fuckin Murkdown
Formatting too hard when newline appears

Lounge<Swift>

For all you ambitious swift programmers out there
;)
also apparently they're ditching OpenGL for something called Metal
user1804599
19:23
There was already a Swift programming language, by the way.
Nope.. can't sleep, so I'll resort to casually browsing SO
user1804599
swift-lang.org lol that website is slow (guess why)
> Craig Federighi explained that Metal is designed for the A7 processor and provides complete access to the compute power of its GPU.
yes good job.
let's tie developers to the platform even more
Swift seems super innovative.
lol fucking shit, and come to think I thought about making something for an iPad like 10 minutes ago
19:25
Why does a free book require iTunes
Jesus christ Apple you're so bad at everything
it requires iBooks :P
Because Apple.
Someone download it and export it to PDF or something tia
The most innovative feature of Swift is the use of simple three-character keywords.
btw damn it
> It includes low-level primitives such as types, flow control, and operators.
I should have copied the whole sentence
19:26
LATEST RESEARCH
LOW LEVEL OPERATORS
PERFORMANCE
RC4
260x FASTER THAN PYTHON
oh god
We have researched existing programming languages and yup we duplicated everything they already had for 10 years
it's not even funny
19:27
Are you freaking kidding me?
I'm using random numbers okay
Don't make me think
Remember that 10 years ago was already the third millennium
I DONT WANT TO THINK
If anyone has downloaded that book, I'm hoping it assumes that you are an absolute beginner.
Instead of acting like you know hundreds of languages already.
Welp I'm bored and forgot about this language already
So @Xeo how'd you like Transistor
Xeo
Xeo
19:28
I liked it
a bit short for 20 bucks, though
(without the recursion)
@DemCodeLines who cares. We'll forget about that thing in like 5 minutes.
just like everybody else except apple zealots
@Xeo Bastion was about the same length though
I felt it was underwhelming
Apple has normal ARM ABI, just use Haskell or whatever really.
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, but I got that quite some time after the fact :P
Xeo
Xeo
19:29
so, cheaper
under 10 bucks IIRC
Or was it even less? Lemme check
@BartekBanachewicz Well I'm new to mobile app development. Windows Phone was driving me crazy the other day. The last thing I want is to not be able to make an app for iOS because I don't know the language
I've learned Swift by looking at those three examples
@DemCodeLines don't use platform-specific languages god.
WP has way better dev experience than iOS
also that ^
19:30
Android also
there I'd differ actually
iOS is at the bottom of the well
Covered in mucus
Android is pretty fucking terrible though
19:31
Android is on top of that
And WP is almost out of the water
iOS was bad, but at least usable IME
@CatPlusPlus Probably, but as I said, I'm new to mobile apps and WP was ticking me off the other day for something as small as listview item invoke handler
Android's DX improved a lot in recent years
Android is Java
Xeo
Xeo
19:31
Where the fuck can I check my purchase history in Steam
And iOS is Apple
@Xeo Settings > Account history
@DemCodeLines no, android is native ARM if you want to make fast apps. If you don't, you might well use JS. Or Lua. Or whatever really.
I got Bastion in about seven different Humble Bundles.
we're out of the "YOU CAN CODE JUST IN ONE LANGUAGE" era already in mobile
Google might be too incompetent to make a payment sandbox, but at least they don't require you to have 'restore purchases' button in apps :cripes:
19:32
it's just Apple that doesn't fucking understand that
Xeo
Xeo
Bastion: 2.09eur
@BartekBanachewicz I was always under the impression that iOS = ObjC, Android = Java, WP = everything (since it supports like everything).
@DemCodeLines then you were under the wrong impression since quite some time
19:33
oh
You guys go on. I'll be the laugh track.
shorter to type, eh?
I'm using a phone. Everything is painful in it.
I dunno, I like my phone
Android is actually pretty usable with 2GB of RAM
@DemCodeLines Our engine uses C++ exclusively, and we target both iOS, Android and Flash.
(Although we do have some ObjC, Java and ActionScript code here and there, but it's hidden)
19:35
RAM doesn't help easing the horrors of typing.
I'd pick WP for development if it weren't for the stupid Win8 requirement
@R.MartinhoFernandes don't you have Swype?
My phone also has 2GB of RAM.
@CatPlusPlus VM
@EtiennedeMartel I suck at C tho
Yes, but Swype is still horrible.
19:36
@DemCodeLines C++, not C.
Two different things.
Yes running it in VM is very great
@EtiennedeMartel Actually, I suck at both
Actually aside from XAML doing WP8 development was acceptable.
It's like getting my thoughts out through a straw
I have done some C++, but never touched C
19:36
@BenjaminGruenbaum NEW AVATAR
Does C++ require xaml on W8/WP8?
@DemCodeLines XAML is for UI.
Yeah, @BoltClock touched me in the wee wee and made me do it.
It's also a good idea to use it because UI is better done with declarative languages.
@BenjaminGruenbaum ew
19:37
@DemCodeLines no you can use D2D/D3D if you really want to
@EtiennedeMartel I know. Sometimes, you can pretty much draw the entire UI based on the code, kinda like Java.
@BartekBanachewicz well, we were all hipstery before
why do I read it as "BoldCock"?
You wouldn't get the reference :D
I was wondering if you can just draw all the stuff out with C++
Never used C++ on WP8 dev, so idk
19:38
Why would you do that
@DemCodeLines do what exactly
@DemCodeLines In theory... but I wouldn't, if you go the xaml route it's a LOT more efficient to let the runtime do it for you due to how the XAML runtime works.
UI is horrible anyway
@CatPlusPlus I mean, didn't MSFT target older systems with barely any power to support Windows 8? In that case, you could give it like 20GB/512MB and do your development
@R.MartinhoFernandes I like designing UI.
19:39
freak.
It has a huge work-to-result ratio.
I do small changes and I immediately see something tangible.
It's horrible as dev because everything about UI is a pile of crap and it's horrible as a user because designers love to just make up bullshit to seem useful.
@DemCodeLines That's completely unrelated to whether developing in this way is actually comfortable
And it isn't, because you need to run Visual Studio in that VM, and that's shit
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol, so true
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, hi, Cat. Didn't know you managed to get a hold of Robot's password.
19:40
@CatPlusPlus Define "in this way". Are you referring to XAML?
Pay attention
UI has like 10 things about it you have to know, when you know those - it gets really boring
@CatPlusPlus partition your hard disk. Is 20gb that big of a deal for you?
Robot! Cat's insulting Intel GPUs again :<
19:41
what
tell him to stop.
hrhrhr
@CatPlusPlus install Windows 8 on the hard disk
Instead of destressing with a rubber ball I wreck Intel GPUs
@DemCodeLines It has nothing to do with hard disk space
and everything to do with the fact that VS is terribly slow and just terrible in general even not in a VM
@DeadMG It's the RAM and processing power, yes I know
I am referring to actually installing it on the computer, not a VM
19:42
Probably needs three reboots
VS is now made by Hollywood.
@DeadMG Why do you think it's slow? In my experience with it, the amount of features packed in substitutes for everything.
Yes dualbooting for mobile dev is also very good
Good job
I mean if you don't want to develop, then installing a second os is pointless
@DemCodeLines The features are crashing every ten minutes, being terribly slow, and not showing any information in the debugger or evaluating any expressions.
@DemCodeLines You're not making any sense hth
19:48
I don't think developers are ever happy hearing about another single-purpose proprietary programming language, but swift is better than objc
lol what the fuck joel
I don't think that war is good but donuts are.
@DemCodeLines what are you even what
@BartekBanachewicz Hm?
War donuts
@EtiennedeMartel the fact that swift is better than objc is utterly irrelevant here
You just tank them in coffee
i mean it has low-level primitives like flow control
but really...
19:50
DeadMG seems like a disciple of mine now.
@BartekBanachewicz Why would it be? Swift's purpose is to replace ObjC.
Did Apple just 'Sherlock' Haskell? http://bit.ly/1ooNDrL
no, not really.
oh lol reddit
> I don't know what 'to Sherlock' in this context but as far as languages go it still seems to be pretty uninteresting at least from someone accustomed to a modern language being something like Idris/Haskell/Agda.
user1804599
> Apple announces ButtKit, a new way for developers to easily create butt-connected apps
Replacing ObjC is pretty much its flagship feature
tbf anything is better than a language that's based around slapping one half-baked language on top of another half-baked language
19:51
right, if you write in Idris, Swift isn't really all the rage
if you write in Idris, you have no friends or family though and that's sad.
Swift is only interesting if you've been in a cave since the 80s.
Or programming exclusively in Objective-C.
Like most of the ~fresh~ languages
Same thing, really.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes aka exactly who they want to cater
Obj-C programmers bad at programming who knew
19:53
> the result of the latest research on programming languages
So modern.
Yep, totally 80s
But it has !! tuples !!
That's what 'latest' means
@CatPlusPlus and types.
19:53
To be fair, the "modern era" began in the 16th century.
So they're really modern.
What?
I believe you are mistaken.
"Since the Renaissance" is a very weird definition of "modern era"
the modern era began with the invention of the transistor.
btw expect rewrites of shitty iOS apps "USING SWIFT"
that's going to spawn a whole new shitstorm of crappy useless apps
I'm already making Swifty Bird
The Imdustrial Revolution was important enough to warrant a separation, and the advent of computers for another.
So your definition is at least two eras offset.
19:56
I think that the Renaissance certainly qualifies to begin an era, just not this one.
@R.MartinhoFernandes IIRC there were at least 3 industrial revolutions (coal, oil and nuclear).
> Android had programming first.
nah.
Yo momma had being fat first
History is hard.
The only revolution was really the first one. The others were not as dramatic.
Gradual improvement.
they were incremental improvements on the core concept
And nuclear, really?
What impact did that have? Submarines and aircraft carriers?
19:59
I'd happy argue that quantum physics and relativity were scientific revolutions
Well, the atomic age.
but they were not general revolutions.
In the US, at least, it had a huge impact.
Which had such a non-dramatic change in the world.
How do you say that in a -> b -> c both a and b should be instances of Show? I've tried with (Show a, b) => a -> b -> c, but that doesn't compile.
19:59
What kind of impact?
I mean, outside of the history of comic books.
Xeo
Xeo
@Jefffrey (Show a, Show b) => ...

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