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16:00
@Potatoswatter why did you reject it?
@Potatoswatter what's wrong with the edit?
C++14 is very likely to be voted in, there's no point in C++1y. The grammar "if you are looking for a good compiler" is more appropriate. Those were the first two things I saw.
@CatPlusPlus you need help
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@Potatoswatter Don't use 'C++14' until it's approved is the policy
the same thing was done with C++11/C++0x
Also, the Intel compiler generates code for Intel compilers. The caveat is that it attempts sabotage when run on AMD.
16:02
[citation needed]
Oh god, that.
Even Mysticial says that it produces better optimised code for AMD so I'll take his word for it :v
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> but keep it civilized
hah
I don't think I've ever seen a proof of that
If ICC sabotages on AMD and still smokes other compilers, I wonder what everyone else is doing.
Compiling for AMD with any other compiler will probably burn your chip.
16:03
@Potatoswatter If the grammar bugs you, you could fix it. It could go both ways.
@Rapptz It's not a question of optimization, it discriminates on CPUID the wrong way. I haven't personally verified it, but I did note that Intel hasn't removed the disclaimers as of a few months ago.
@Potatoswatter there is a "improve" button while reviewing
Sorry. FWIW, I had no idea who or what I was reviewing when I clicked the link. I just saw the diffs and didn't like it.
I'm sure y'all can outvote me. :P
you can fix it if it bugs you
I just wouldn't change C++1y to C++14 until the actual ISO publication (IMO)
16:06
@Rapptz you know technically it will be behind the iso paywall
@BartekBanachewicz paywall is irrelevant. publication is key
so unless you are going to buy it and verify yourself...
@LightnessRacesinOrbit well ok.
might as well claim that a Lamborghini doesn't have an official top rated speed, because you can't afford to buy one
Before ISO ratifies it, the national bodies agree on it. Even if the process doesn't finish in 2014, the approved document will be dated this year.
That happened with Fortran.
16:08
How many times? Lol.
tbh I wouldn't doubt that it'll finish in 2014
considering they axed so many things to separate TSes to publish it in time
They just better not make the TR1 fiasco again with those TSes.
ugh rack cases are so fucking expensive
16:10
I think they're going to be put in experimental/header
and namespace std { namespace experimental { } }
or maybe that's just how everyone does their proposals
@Potatoswatter Actually, document dates seem to be dates of approval.
@R.MartinhoFernandes That implies different dates when referring to it as a national or international standard…
what's the constant on __cpluplus now?
Fortran 2003 is ISO/IEC 1539-1:2004 and Fortran 2008 is ISO/IEC 1539-1:2010.
@Rapptz FDIS date.
So, it doesn't matter what the ISO calls it, we can go along with C++14.
16:13
I'm only looking forward to 2 things in C++14
poly lambdas and...
relaxed constexpr
Even though I ended up using phx::static_cast_ to solve my particular problem (thanks to @sehe), I marked this as the answer since it answers my primary question. I shouldn't have mentioned boost phoenix in my question as it just caused confusion, sorry about that. — Robert Dailey 20 mins ago
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generic lambdas, return type deduction, generalized lambda inits
C++98 was drafted in 1997, at least according to __cplusplus. That doesn't mean the precedent is set in stone, though.
Really confounding
oh right, return type deduction too
so 3 things
16:15
I call it C++TooLittleTooLate
std::optional and std::filesystem are cool too but those are TSes
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improved standard functors and template aliases are nice too
It's only been 3 years. I feel like the language is evolving quite fast enough.
Anyway, there's no FDIS yet.
Anyway this is the "bug fix" revision.
16:18
There's a deadline for FDIS in August.
Or something.
That's just politicking to discourage NB comments. I wonder if Sutter could run afoul of the ISO…
The people of the world demand digit separators!
Now we will be able to write idiomatic magic numbers with digit separators.
I tend to use * as a digit separator
when I have big round numbers
4 * 1000 * 1000
u8 now is unsigned char apparently
Huh… open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2014/n3914.html resolves the problem of encoding UTF-8 characters in char. Not by changing the type to unsigned char but by requiring you to cast.
16:26
or 4 * 1024 * 1024
@Potatoswatter Really?
time to go
Holy shit. My 1/255 answer took off overnight.
@Potatoswatter Holy molly so many NBs asking that.
Do people really use magic numbers so much?
> Reconsider adding digit separators for integer octal literals
o_O
> Paper N3394, "[[deprecated]] attribute," was intended to be included in the CD, but it was unintentionally omitted due to administrative issues.
This is what you get when you leave such tasks to humans. :P
16:50
I tend to not put random magic numbers in in the first place
I do Mega * Kilo * BitsInbyte rather than 1024 * 1024 * 8
90 / 60 / 90 ?
7.15181284
' as the digit separator in 1'000'000 in C++ is terrible.
Let's break all the C++ syntax highlighters in the world.
Meh, they're broken anyway.
Why didn't they just use _, like Dlang, Java or many others?
Because it would break all the C++ syntax highlighters in the world!
Only the integral literals.
16:55
1'000'000 only breaks the integral literals too.
1'000 + something_other_that_should_be_displayed_normally_not_as_a_char_literal + 1'000
If I have T a, b but don't want a and b to be mutually assignable (each to another), that means they actually belong to different types, right?
@ScarletAmaranth Mega * Kilo?
A bit like T degrees, radians.
16:58
@milleniumbug 1'000 + something_other_that_should_be_displayed_normally_not_as_a_char_literal + 1'000 was not valid before. You need to look up what "to break" means.
@presiuslitelsnoflek boost unit?
@sehe It's a yes or no question lol
@sehe it's slightly imprecise and doesn't express the nature of "informaticness" (as it's not 10^3 but 2^10) but it does the job at least in my eyes, vOv
More philosophical than practical
@ScarletAmaranth It does? :S
16:59
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, okay then. Nevertheless, the argument that with _ they would be less "broken" still holds.
@R.MartinhoFernandes maybe it doesn't, who knows, when I get back to this stuff weeks / months / years later, I know what I meant, good enough
I would expect Mega*Kilo anything to be 1000*1000*1000, or 1024*1024*1024. Never 1024*1024.
@R.MartinhoFernandes as I said, it's slightly imprecise (and in reality I use Kibs and Mibs)
It's horribly misleading.
Interpreting vague response as "who cares"
17:00
pcha
Imprecise is the least of its problems.
@milleniumbug Ah, so you don't like ' because then we could have half-assed highlighters.
It's a very poor argument.
Highlighters will have to be fixed either way, so there's little to gain there.
@R.MartinhoFernandes And I still don't see the advantage of '. If it's worse, even if slightly less, is it worth it?
It's natural.
It's the most common thousands separator.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also annoying: that was the last banana.
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean among the natural ones C++ could afford to use? (because space doesn't work, comma doesn't work, dot doesn't work)
Yes.
Space could work, I guess, but is prone to error.
17:10
So it's a cultural thing - using ' we can favour the countries that use ', and using _ we treat everyone equally - everybody will have to adjust :)
you barely ever need any constants randomly floating around in the code and they're generally defined close to each other; I am surprised the committee even bothered with the silly separators
Just like using 3 spaces to indent so we can offend everyone equally
@milleniumbug It's the separator in the C locale.
@ScarletAmaranth Yeah, I find it completely ridiculous as well.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ok, you convinced me - "it's consistent in its own world".
Wait, no, that's comma.
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17:18
@R.MartinhoFernandes I also just ate my last banana :(
Nevermind.
@Xeo "Also"? I didn't eat it.
doggamit
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@R.MartinhoFernandes oh
@Xeo Well done - it seems that correctly operating a banana requires considerable skill.
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17:21
maybe you should consider not completely peeling your bananas in the future?
@Xeo See - it's trickier than it sounds :)
Fortunately I don't use digit separators - I see no need for them :P
(maybe with binary literals, or maybe not, since 1 << 5 is more readable)
Yeah, I think they're both silly features.
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@MartinJames I generally wonder why people eat their bananas completely peeled. No mess if you just keep it in the peel until done
It was a small one.
17:25
C language, the only language that could benefit from them and mattered, survived for 40 years, so...
@Xeo Indeed, I usually work my bananas in that fashion. The little bit at the end that's difficult to get at I sorta 'fire' at the dog.
Just about the only language to have stupid octal literals has no binary literals. Insane. Also, digit separators were invented by some sadistic moron who never had to parse a numeric string with code.
@Morwenn "two Twices" FTFY
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Hm, unfortunately I just discovered that I not only ate the last banana, but also the last food in general.
Never happened before, I bet.
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unfortunately, there's not much I can do to prevent that (aside from getting a proper kitchen and eating stuff other than bread)
17:31
@Mysticial why would I ever SIMD store instead of stream?
When checking the freezer earlier, I discovered bacon. It only took five minutes to chip it out with a screwdriver and it's thawing nicely. Next time I go to a hardware store, I should buy an ice-axe.
@Xeo Er, what about buying food before it runs out?
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@R.MartinhoFernandes meeh
@R.MartinhoFernandes A stream-stored value isn't accessible for another 200+ cycles.
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17:32
I usually buy food as it runs out
So if you try to read a stream-store valued too soon, you'll stall the program.
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which means I either have to survive the evening on that banana, or go out shopping rather soonish
and I really don't feel like going out
@Xeo You don't get pizza deliveries?
Only use streaming stores when you absolutely know you will not be touching that memory again for a long time.
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@MartinJames Thursday is pizza day
17:35
@Xeo There are days? Like 'Tuesday is banana day'?
2
whoa firefox 30 has a glsl editor
you can edit glsl shader directly from the browser and see the results..
I can accept the concept of days dedicated to food. I'll adopt it as long as I can reassign the days as I see fit at any time:)
Friday is traditionally fish day here on the island of inundation. The chippie at Hatton is the best round here, so I have to find some excuse for Anne to go through there every Friday:)
@R.MartinhoFernandes And also. Streaming stores work best if you can complete an entire cacheline within a relatively small window. The point of streaming is to avoid the read from memory. That's only possible if you complete a cacheline so it can be sent directly to memory. If you skip every other 16/32 bytes, streaming might actually backfire.
So seeing as cachelines have been 64 bytes for all recent x86 processors, you only need 4 consecutive 128-bit stream-stores to do it - provided that you're aligned to the cacheline.
@MartinJames Is that because of Lent or something?
@Mysticial Ok, thanks. Store it is.
@Bartek gist.github.com/rmartinho/5f17c263887c167ca24c. Just some raw thoughts dumped. Not much pondering was done
17:52
FWIW, I rarely ever use streaming stores.
Yeah, it doesn't seem generally useful.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not really. In general, it's just because of desire for fish, chips and mushy peas:)
The only case I use it seriously is where the entire algorithm was cache aware.
@Bartek ...and without considering TH either.
18:22
what's TH?
THe Template Haskell I guess
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^ good stuff
you're pretty late on that
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the video came out today, so fuck you :p
Today I wanted to access my PayPal account I created ages ago, but I forgot my password. I clicked on "forgot my password" and got an email asking to follow a link in order to reset it. The link asked me security questions I forgot the answers to.
18:28
ITR: PayPal
Only payment option :(
Anyway I contacted them and asked what to do, and I got an email saying "This is an automated reply. If you forgot your password, please follow this link to reset it" (same link as before)
fail
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paypal 1 : 0 users
I cannot even delete my account because I need to login in order to delete it
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well, actually
paypal 0 : -1 users
18:30
@AndyProwl Security questions are so dumb.
One was "what's your favorite author"
Who knows what I answered 10 years ago or so
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> [19:30:40] <%Xeo> !decide shopping, survive the evening on a banana
[19:30:41] <+Horo> T'is a good choice: shopping
:(
@AndyProwl 5rQ2wZmOmU0aWv4Toxlu
> Je hume la bonne pitance
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah let me try that
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18:32
@R.MartinhoFernandes never heard of him
@Xeo See, of course a machine agrees with me.
its doesnt works :(
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imagine if authors used keepass to generate their pen names
So, I have a list of 65 possible answers to my next test and today I've run a ghci Haskell line to randomly generate a number from 1 to 65 to simulate question asking. I feel so pro.
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18:34
@Jefffrey randomRIO (1,65)?
@Xeo yup
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#sopro
not to be confused with #SOpro
user1804599
> $stripteaser
naughtyfold
user1804599
18:40
NaughtyPress
@AndyProwl You need to call them if you want to contact support
Security questions are just more passwords to be put in the database
19:06
@R.MartinhoFernandes Pure evilness.
I just bought a tube amp.
will get to my home around sunday.
and I paid less than half the price (for a used one in pretty much perfect condition).
@BartekBanachewicz a used one FTFY
@ScarletAmaranth fuck I never know where to put an a / an an
19:11
"used" starts with /j/, not /u/
anyway this thing rocks.
it's based on pronunciation: a uniform, a user, an olive
I've played it multiple times before in my local shop
mm, I use a Behringer, 2 * 40W I think it's kind of an overkill for a flat : - /
@ScarletAmaranth Bugera is a subdivision of behringer. But people don't usually say a lot of good things about behringer products
do you have an instrumental amp or a PA or what?
19:13
not sure what PA stands for tbh
FTR I have a behringer midi keyboard that I use for my piano practice, and it's pretty good overall, except the dynamics are broken on one key :F
@ScarletAmaranth Power Amplification
typically FRFR setup
ah, well, I guess it's like... an instrumental amp, I'd guess
@ScarletAmaranth for a guitar or something else?
well, not that I can play much (at all) anymore, I'm buying a piano soon
@BartekBanachewicz it's a guitar amp
@ScarletAmaranth this one is 120W. On tubes though so it doesn't really compare to transistor power though
@ScarletAmaranth so it's solid state?
I recently on behringer-labeled guitar amps, but I guess I would approach them with a great dose of care
19:15
yeah, it doesn't have these... transistor things or whatever they're called
I can't say anything bad about mine tbh, I also use it as a speaker as of current for my computer
lol
my friend used to do so
yeah, that, I don't have that :)
well tube amps typically cost a shitload of money
and they are heavy as fuck and fragile
so I didn't want one, but I've realized I'd need to pay like 5-10 times more for modelling + PA setup
19:16
the sound is slightly... "softer" from what I could tell but I didn't really care when I was buying
I'd dare to say it's completely different
I wouldn't say "completely different" at all, at least when you get like a mid range one
with one tube or whatever
like, no solid-state-ended amp below shitload of money won't sound even remotely comparable
@ScarletAmaranth that doesn't matter. The colorization of sound is not the problem, digital modelers (the cheap ones) get that right alright. The power stage is the real problem.
Because cheap solid-state power stages just don't have the dynamics of tubes
Also cheaper amps are typically shipped with worse-quality speakers
now, I don't want to sound like a snob, I own a cheap amp, I've owned 3 modellers (sold one) and I'm using a solid-state hi-fi power amp now
@R.MartinhoFernandes LOL, gg
but in all seriousness it cannot really compare.
19:20
Bananas are garbage
@CatPlusPlus they are radioactive
everything is
as long as you can take advantage of that, sure... I bought an electric guitar and an amp just for kicks and giggles for the most part, I prefer acoustic guitars
Potatoes
can't fit a 17mm-thin neck on an acoustic :)
and 22 frets, while we're at it.
but they're cool alright, I'll buy one for fun one day
19:21
I won't argue, not like you're ever using anything higher than ~14 on an acoustic anyway :)
Fun fact: "potato" in italian is a synonim (slang) for "pussy/vagina"
yeah it's about different things
and if you have an older spanish model, you're likely to even be physically unable to play those ^^
with no cutaway, heh
@ScarletAmaranth well I'd buy something like that
probably nth time I'm posting an Ovation here but they are just too beatiful
this at least lets you comfortably reach 19th position
19:23
they are, hm, a "modern" approach to acoustics
some guitars are made with these frets but they're like inaccessible for the most part :P
well people bend their hands weirdly sometimes
or play lap-style
weisenborn ?
No, dragon
@ScarletAmaranth haven't heard that name, but I guess that's that
19:24
let me show you something
pauses Daft Punk
I paused Grande Valse Brilliante for that just to re-hear it :)
(one does not simply pause Chopin)
I've become too lazy to read books :negative:
depends on the book, I've been trying to finish GEB recently
I can't concentrate on text
19:30
What book?
that's alright, I can't concentrate on anything as of recent, this girl... man
@ScarletAmaranth interesting but I think I prefer the symphonic performance
Whatever book
Doesn't sound interesting
19:30
@BartekBanachewicz this is basically just a skill show-off :) that guy is absolutely incredible, I've tried weissenborn a bit even on "weissenborn guitars" but with little succes
@ScarletAmaranth Jerk off and go back to work!
@catplusplus But you're at uni, doesn't that mean you'll have to read books?
@Jefffrey that's the funny thing, I don't think about her in this way; I just feel like talking to her and being around her
Haven't read a single book for uni in 4 years so no
@ScarletAmaranth Then my diagnosis is: Limerence. Run away from that as far as you can.
19:32
Oh
Also I haven't been to classes in forever now, I'm probably over the missed attendance quota on all of them
@CatPlusPlus Do you pass your exams only with your smartness?
So it doesn't matter!
Lol, another year wasted
@Jefffrey I had to google that
19:33
You should just have finished uni.
@ScarletAmaranth I know ;)
Well I did
I'm not even concerned with this semester
What's the point of attending if you don't attend?
Discounts
@TonyTheLion Pay taxes
Oh wait, it's free IIRC, nvm
19:34
Doesn't make any difference on taxes
Discounts man
user1804599
Hmm.
@Jefffrey but it's funny, she like... creeps into my mind whatever I'm doing
user1804599
They replaced a complete woman’s skull by a plastic one.
19:35
@Jefffrey Story of my life
user1804599
I want a bulletproof skull.
I still find it an odd reason for doing uni, most people do it to learn shit
@ScarletAmaranth Seriously man, actively stop this mess before it's too late. The non-sex-related feeliings (commonly referred to as "love") are a cancer.
I've learned that uni induces state of complete apathy and depression in me
Anyway, cat logic, as a Lion I should be familiar with it. :P
19:36
@CatPlusPlus no, that's my uni
I have my degree, I don't fucking care beyond that
@cat, more reason for you to not have taken on this extra year
@Jefffrey I don't think it's love, I barely even know her, vOv
you are screwed
Like a corkscrew?
user1804599
19:38
cockscrew
worse!
I'd rather go with infatuation
Hahahahah
I feel sorry for you. Really. My heart is crying :<
@TonyTheLion It's a non-issue
19:40
@ScarletAmaranth As near as I can tell, it's the unis of many of us.
yeah, I can see how being in university in your country is actually something extremely overpowered: no taxes -> only benefits -> profit
user1804599
@Jefffrey stop this nonsense :)
Apparently there's some letter from a court to me at home
rip me
@rightfold you are just 26 years late
also this one is much better
makes me happy evritim
user1804599
nippless!!!
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Some code here looks very familiar (also another sod who does the argument introspection)
@MartinJames Not really, except for Thursday

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