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11:00
@HamZa try C--
@ScottW lol that silver badge is mostly because I was hitting the regex/pcre tag
@A.H. too feminine
@ScottW just wants to hug someone
@DeadMG I liked my maths classes.
I just wish we had type theory too :F
/me hugs @ScottW
mine were always the mathematics of completely irrelevant things.
11:01
But we did Categories and Graph Theory and Differential Calculus and Algebra and stuff
like, "How can you prove the formula for constructing a rotation matrix for 3D vectors?".
PS: I'm not proud or anything about what I achieved now on SO :)
me: "Call D3DXRotationMatrix(...);".
@CatPlusPlus I was on a similar system too, but that wasn't going to be on forever.
@DeadMG that's kinda relevant
11:02
@A.H. vOV both
@BartekBanachewicz It's totally irrelevant.
not only are there a thousand implementations of rotation matrices I can use
@DeadMG you know that this function makes arbitrary choices, right?
but even if I wanted to roll my own for some inexplicable reason
@BartekBanachewicz It's terrible because you need to reinvent the wheel every time ?
I could just copy and paste the formulae from Wikipedia.
11:02
@HamZa that and many other reasons.
there's absolutely no reason for me to prove why the formula is correct.
@DeadMG well, just because one IDE auto adds stuff, doesn't mean another will.
I am talking theory stuff, like state machines and shit
my program is built on the function, it doesn't need to implement the function.
for the most part though, sure, use auto-comlete
11:03
those are awesome
@DeadMG That's what I do too vOv. But at least I can easily check if what I am copypasting makes sense
@DeadMG I like when you complain that the formulae on wikipedia make no sense because you can't read the notation, though.
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah well I want just get the basics (I know the syntax but I need more than that) and then step over to C++
@R.MartinhoFernandes :D
@HamZa Don't do that.
11:03
@R.MartinhoFernandes That is true. But I would not consider being taught the notation to be a total waste of time. It clearly gives you the power to learn and implement new functions.
@HamZa No. C++ and C are not connected. Stop thinking that they are. Either learn C or C++.
@HamZa if you want to learn C++ learn C++. C is not 'C++ lite'.
plus, something like a rotation matrix is so simple reading the formula is easy even for me.
@BartekBanachewicz But isn't C++ a more sophisticated standard than C ?
You can learn both C and C++, just don't think of them as related
7
11:04
@HamZa it's a completely different thing.
@HamZa Just like PHP is a more sophisticated language than C.
Hmmm ok
@HamZa Much more sophisticated. So virtually everything you learn and do in C is pretty much superseded by a C++ technique.
(Don't learn either, they're terrible languages)
Most languages are.
11:04
@R.MartinhoFernandes mwahahaha
@DeadMG and that's why our linear algebra classes were really brief.
@HamZa completely different language. in no way at all connected. It's just pure coincidence they both use the letter C. (not true, but best to think of it like this).
I knew most of the stuff already, obviously
even implementation of programming languages was bullshit
implement LR(1) state table by hand.
yeah, I'm totally implementing Wide's parser that way
and never mind code generation or semantic analysis, lex and parse is all you need.
I liked how my teacher was puzzled when I showed him how to mentally construct arbitrary 3d transformations, which was kinda natural for me after coming from 3d graphics
11:06
I wouldn't mind theory if there weren't exams
He was really nice guy anyway, tried to get me more in maths.
Hell, I'd have much more fun with uni if there weren't exams
Fuck exams
ok guys. Thanks for the guidance. And please bear this php/regex guru :)
@HamZa Nah. PHP and regex are my worst enemies.
11:06
@HamZa no hard feelings.
it's time for you to die my friend.
Show on this state chart where bad regexes touched you
@DeadMG Regex is awesome. Especially the PCRE flavor :D
@BartekBanachewicz Our linear algebra classes were the real thing. Not rotation matrices or other such nonsense.
bah I'm not even gonna go there
11:08
@R.MartinhoFernandes we focused more on mathematical analysis and differential equations at that time. Algebra course was really only an addition.
I think I found a usecase for regex in my code
eeek
I wouldn't be surprised if it was his own initiative to even teach us that
heh, my friend tatooed it on his arm after 1st sem
Del, or Nabla, is an operator used in mathematics, in particular, in vector calculus, as a vector differential operator, usually represented by the nabla symbol ∇. When applied to a function defined on a one-dimensional domain, it denotes its standard derivative as defined in calculus. When applied to a field (a function defined on a multi-dimensional domain), del may denote the gradient (locally steepest slope) of a scalar field (or sometimes of a vector field, as in the Navier–Stokes equations), the divergence of a vector field, or the curl (rotation) of a vector field, dependin...
well, the laplacian actually.
I have much love for that branch of math, despite realizing how much I suck at it
@BartekBanachewicz I had separate courses for calculus (gradients and shit), dynamical systems (differential equations and shit), and linear algebra (vector spaces and shit).
Differentials :argh:
@R.MartinhoFernandes on later semesters we went more into discrete maths and statistical analysis/probabilistics
which was also fun but way more easy
11:11
Math exams were too fucking stressful
didn't do any calculus at my university
Discrete maths easier than linear algebra?
@BartekBanachewicz Also had separate courses for both of those. All except dynamical systems on the first semester.
They must've taught you some lies
That's what an engineering degree gives you.
11:12
everything
@CatPlusPlus Algebra wasn't even easy, it was trivial
@DeadMG such as?
morning
well TBF I had to retake probabilistics exam, but passed it with flying colours the 2nd time
Statistics and discrete maths were awfully hard for me
a lot of people failed discrete maths here
11:13
I have a tomb of a book on Discrete Math
Only worse things were math modelling/industrial systems crap with differential equations and shit later
never used it really
I got 4 on the first try and was like lol noobs.
And I have those things again now :toot:
well i have to implement 3DES now :D
that's gun be fun
haskell haskell haskell haskell
11:16
You're drooling
busy
... if in the Eshell I c(myModule). and then send a message to the process to call ?MODULE:loop(); it should start running the new version of the code right...
@CatPlusPlus too bad I still suck at it. But it's getting to the point where I can really move all my hobby work to it. :3
@ScottW I prefer parser generators
they are easier to compose and are way more readable imho
oh there we go :D it worked
fancy that
11:20
@ScottW Depends
@ScottW yes (Disclaimer: I suck at Parsec and it could be done better)
Regexes can get awfully complicated even for regular languages
regex is simples for simples things
regex is important
it is simple for some simple things
@ScottW read the disclaimer
11:23
@BartekBanachewicz silly you, if the regex is not simple, the thing is not simple :P
@thecoshman that's just wrong.
there are simple things that are horrendous with regexps
I dislike the lack of easy composition
I wrote a regex for dice specifiers with multipliers and offsets and it got awfully complicated
@BartekBanachewicz what do you mean?
@thecoshman you can't easily break regexp statements into reusable blocks and then use them together
@CatPlusPlus dice specifiers? like people saying 5D10+D6
11:25
And it's just [[<float>x]<int>]d<int>[+-<float>]
@BartekBanachewicz oh right. yeah, they kind of are single purpose.
@BartekBanachewicz The hell does that mean?
51 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@thecoshman you can't easily break regexp statements into reusable blocks and then use them together
Regex composition is pretty much just juxtaposition.
@BartekBanachewicz Er, yes, you can?
Nothing stops you from writing monadic combinators for writing regexes
11:26
:'( people using fancy words
The shorthand syntax as string is just one way of doing things
@R.MartinhoFernandes I always felt it was rather clunky everytime I tried
@CatPlusPlus hm, okay
But most of the people think ^ when thinking "regex"
Your Parsec code could generate a regex
Regex that parses an integer: \d+. Regex that parses two things separated by a dot: A\.B. Regex that parses two integers separated by a dot? (\d+)\.(\d+).
@Bartek What's difficult about that?
Just switch a fold op
11:28
maybe I just dislike the stringified forms then
What's clunky about that syntax is that it's usually stored in strings
You can compose it just fine
Just don't do it with string ops
so... Erlang (well, functional languages I guess)... say I have a long lived loop. and I want to have a list of names, that people can add/remove to/from. do I need to pass that list into the loop for each iteration? And have a message handler that can manipulate it?
11:30
@ScottW s/\+/\+\+/ FTFY
:S that sounds... ok....
Your function is tail-recursive, so it uses constant space
@R.MartinhoFernandes wouldn't you only need the brackets if you want to capture the two ints?
so it can use constant space*
Well, yes
11:31
@CatPlusPlus doesn't Erlang have state monad?
Obviously if you add a new thing to a list it will use more :v
@CatPlusPlus yeah... just a new way of thinking :S
@CatPlusPlus yeah, but I still only have the one list
@ScottW using functions for loops
11:32
@thecoshman In most syntices you also use parentheses if you want to group stuff. I usually run my regices with the "no implicit groups" option.
@thecoshman this is the perfect use for the State monad. So you might want at what linked, I guess.
In fact, the only reliable meaning of parentheses across all syntices and option sets is "groups stuff".
@BartekBanachewicz is that a Functional thing, or an Erlang thing?
Monads are not very Erlang thing
@thecoshman It's more Haskell thing if anything
basically instead of looping with passing manually you just say "this runs in a context of some state"
11:34
It was fun to use both "syntices" and "regices" in the same message.
@BartekBanachewicz ooh, that sounds like a thing
foo a = do
    let a' = a + 1
    foo a'

-- vs

foo = do
    a <- get
    let a' = a + 1
    put a'
    foo
Erlang lacks syntax sugar to make State nice, even with Erlando
user1804599
What terminal emulator do you use on Linux?
which can be run nicer with removing last foo and saying forever foo
11:36
@BartekBanachewicz To be fair, that example doesn't really sell the second snippet very well.
Better with lenses
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wanted to stay simple here
foolens = a += 1
or dunno, just...
foo = do
    modify (+1)
    foo
so erm... loop(My_list) -> Updated_list = mess_with_list(My_list), loop(Updated_list).
Forever modify
@thecoshman Yes
wow, that actually makes sense :D
standback! learning is happening!
11:39
cant't you write mylist' in erlang? :)
If you go with OTP gen_server, then you'll just have to return a new state
' is not allowed in variable names, it's part of atom names iirc
@CatPlusPlus gen_server is some sort of ~frameworky~ thing that takes care of a lot of boiler plate right?
Erlang sounds interesting
> In many cases, a fairly mechanical translation from Haskell to Erlang is possible, so converting other monads or combinators should mostly be straightforward. However, the lack of type classes in Erlang is limiting.
learn it too :P
11:41
@thecoshman OTOH it sounds less powerful than Haskell in what I typically aim for
it might be nicer for servers, but I doubt it would work better in graphics.
Or my cryptography assignment
welp, I'm in position to advocate for one over other
@thecoshman Yes
@thecoshman "not" ?
@BartekBanachewicz sure :P
oooh, I'm starting to see why you need to make sure you have a receive '_'
11:46
'_' what smiley?
@BartekBanachewicz Yes you can but it's quite difficult to find those cases where you can reuse a certain block. Take a look stackoverflow.com/a/20734530
wot
closevote queue is at 85.5k o.O
wow ...
no idea when it dropped so suddenly
prolly before the election :P
grrr, I'm grumpy today
11:58
@BartekBanachewicz yesterday it was at 120K
@jalf you have a very elongated sense to 'today'
Today is not Friday, is it?
nope
I think Thursday :S
damn you
@thecoshman I didn't say anything about not being grumpy on other days. Just that this particular day, I am grumpy
12:02
Did someone commit a space? ;)
did you word
@BartekBanachewicz WOOOW it's now at 75.9k :O
robot
what are the rules for using this in a trailing return?
I've got decltype(sema.CreateType(ParseTypeBases(), loc, a)) where sema is a member variable and ParseTypeBases() is a member function, and for some reason GCC errors on the member function but not the member variable.
hi to all
hi Dinesh
12:17
@DeadMG Adding this-> works.
Just ran into this a couple of hours ago, actually. Dunno what's the 100% conforming behaviour, but that works.
> error: ‘mt19337’ is not a member of ‘std’
Gosh, how I hate this.
Also have you heard about neovim?
Atom is based on webkit as it seems
stylable with CSS and extendable with JS
Looks like LightTable
Or some other ~new editor~ dunno, they all look the same
2 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
Also have you heard about neovim?
I'd like to highlight this
That feature list is "yeah, it's a text editor all right"
@BartekBanachewicz I wouldn't mind vim with a better core
I liked the 2nd kickstarter goal the guy set
12:26
I wouldn't start with vim code, really
> $20,000: Reimplement vimscript as a language that compiles to lua.
@vijfhoek Use fiddler (or some other kind of sniffing tool) to inspect the traffic. Check the content-length. Consider adding a 'Connection: Close' header. Basically: debug things or post a new question. This was the error in the code shown. — sehe 20 secs ago
Compatibility is not worth delving into that madness
> Those that only have a C89 compiler installed or use vim on legacy systems such as Amiga, BeOS or MS-DOS
amiga support sounds like a total priority
I doubt it's code that's actively maintained
12:28
@BartekBanachewicz what for
3
A: C++: how to choose the constructor depending on the condition?

FredOverflowIf the type has a default constructor, you can default-construct an object, immediately destruct it, and then construct it again with the appropriate constructor via placement-new: A a; a.~A(); if (isTrue()) { new(&a) A("string"); } else { new(&a) A(10); } The C++ standard has several ...

:-D
@sehe to clean it up, allowing easier further development
Why are you asking me a question?
> Simplify maintenance to improve the speed that bug fixes and features get merged.
Split the work between multiple developers.
Enable the implementation of new/modern user interfaces without any modifications to the core source.
12:30
@BartekBanachewicz Seems like it will make little difference from a user's POV.
@BartekBanachewicz tbh none of these things are things that end-users care about
not in the short term, no.
But if they effectively make making plugins easier, it will start to matter
Eh
We'll see in 5 years
@BartekBanachewicz It will also introduce new bugs!
(That's what writing new code does)
And a lot of them
It's worse than writing new code, it's refactoring the crappy old code :v
It's C
You'd hit less bugs by writing it from scratch
12:32
he wants to rewrite some parts, from what I understood
It might even take less time
like the platform-specific stuff
hey
:(
What I'd do is implement the core from scratch and then worry about VimL compatibility for existing plugins
@CatPlusPlus that p much implies not using C
12:34
Yes
merely pointing out that I'm missing from the list of being loved
I always imply not using C
despite being the most important/lovable person in the lounge
12:35
@ScottW rightfold.
@DeadMG You want to be loved by rightfold?
this big: -------> <-------- (not to scale)
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think the very last mail was spot on there.
so that zimbu language Bram is liking
> Suppose you want to write a new program, something like a text editor. What language would you write it in?
It has to be as fast as possible, so interpreted languages are out.
stopped reading at this point.
12:45
posted on February 27, 2014

"At least as precise" is sometimes just a polite way of saying "loosely specified."

@BartekBanachewicz but what if you want to edit huuuuuge files and it really needs to be as fast as possible? :c
@ScottW lol what's up with you
swearing through google translate? or what :p
@melak47 am I supposed to explain the difference between CPU bound and IO bound now?
maybe he's a robot and can type really fast :c
or you know, interface directly :p
@BartekBanachewicz Er, not relevant.
Huge files are not a problem because of I/O.
@R.MartinhoFernandes maybe he's editing it at 20 different cursor places at once :c
12:51
Many editors choke on few-megabyte-sized files. Shirley you're not trying to tell me loading a few megs from disk causes that.
you're only allowed to call him that when you're alone :3

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