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Xeo
5:00 PM
@Fanael We should make a QFA - Questions Frequently Asked, and only list questions, without answers.
 
@EtiennedeMartel mmm
 
user784668
@Xeo do eet
 
@EtiennedeMartel Young guy who thinks every reference must be a web link. Sigh.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Kids these days.
 
hmm
I just wrote a swallow-all exception handler.
 
5:03 PM
ITT puppy sucks.
 
eh
it was the simplest thing that could possibly work.
and work it seems to have done.
 
I confess I've done that too, on odd occasions.
 
oh wait, I could have instead simply re-ordered the two conditions.
oh well.
let's do that before committing.
 
@DeadMG why don't you commit first and then fix it?
 
Xeo
hm, first treatment tomorrow
 
5:07 PM
@Xeo treatment?
 
Xeo
for my back
 
what's up with your back?
 
@KeithThompson What I have received from your explanation is that you do not feel like providing a URL because libraries and Google exist. I never said anything was "required" as you seem to believe. I was simply indicating it would be useful and improve the quality of your answer; nothing more. I doubt you happen to have something physically in your hand that you have referenced, so it would be nice to see what you are reading and where you retrieved your information from specifically. That's all. — Michael J. Gray 3 mins ago
o.O
I guess he doesn't understand how standards are referenced.
 
user784668
@MichaelJ.Gray: Finally, I am not called Keith. — Lightness Races in Orbit 1 min ago
 
user784668
This makes your argument invalid.
 
5:10 PM
> a new option in YouTrack integration allows for monitoring all projects from the YouTrack server automatically
Took them some time
 
um wat
cabal: Could not resolve dependencies:
trying: glisha-0.0.0.0
 
and now Keith is being a muppet
what's going on
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit wat
 
@BartekBanachewicz wat wat
 
in the butt
 
5:22 PM
@Cat, I think we should make the wiki main page a bit more official. I am writing a draft of an e-mail to send to JB licensing and it would be nice to be able to link to something that says "this is us".
 
I decided that the best way was to use a char, I've never heard of a string of chars before, will look into that now — user3001499 13 mins ago
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit wat
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah it's on the todo!
 
user784668
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The best way was to use a chair?
 
I had no ideas how it might look though
Also someone make a logo and we're 100% professional alcoholics
on the internet
 
5:23 PM
alright
 
Lemme put up a pin.
Oh, rules pin is gone btw.
 
I wrote some new functionality that should codegen all exported functions by default, and also special-cases global Main() and exports it as "main" if it is found.
 
I can't install my library locally :/
 
5:26 PM
PSA: We need to make the wiki main page look a lot more official. That includes a logo. Rewards for the winner!
10
 
what rewards?
 
I'm still deciding if I'm serious about the rewards.
 
user1804599
If I use Ninja, can I use CFLAGS environ var to change the value in Ninja, or only when generating ninja.build?
 
all I'm saying is, I'mma be mighty disappointed if I'm expecting rewards but none appear.
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes You're not.
 
5:27 PM
@DeadMG Partially eaten pickle
 
yummy
 
@DeadMG Oh, I can guarantee not-none.
That's not saying much, though.
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol project name ideas
 
ugh come on
 
5:30 PM
99
A: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

Júlio Turolla RibeiroTake your right hand and point to your question. There, you see.

lol
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Ask not, lest ye be asked of?
 
I hope Carmack answers my question =/ Not holding my breath though, he's super busy
 
woo
my package can be built!
 
hmmm
 
I might be missing something, but how is this any better than the switch solution? You just moved the 25 "cases" from one function to another (the one which initializes the map), plus you introduced 25 new classes. This is certainly "more object-oriented" than a switch, but that doesn't mean it's better. — FredOverflow 1 min ago
 
5:35 PM
I think I might have just had an awesome idea.
 
Hi guys. I need some help in Twitter Search Api 1.1 inorder to use since parameter. Any ideas??
 
no.
 
@vishnu yeah, ask somewhere else. We don't do web.
 
LOL I just realized the title is Lounge<Twitter>
6
 
5:36 PM
hahahahahaah
 
quick! change to Lounge<Haskell>
 
@vishnu We're in the wrong room. Sorry.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<Fail>: It's epic! [no-followers] [uninteresting]
damnit
I wanted to spend today writing Wide tests and instead I implemented new features.
 
BTW, my coworker asked me to help him learn/teach him C++ and OpenGL
 
user784668
@FredOverflow it's webscale!
 
5:40 PM
hmmm
I suddenly have a super bad feeling about this.
I need to write some tests for my CLI driver :(
 
Xeo
7 hours ago, by Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<Twitter>: Tweet tweet~ [no-followers] [uninteresting]
hi :D
 
I should write some tests too I guess
but I think I can write only integration tests really
 
possible repost:
Also worth mentioning, MSVC has an extension for bananas, too! dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/247271563/intelliBananas.pngmelak47 2 hours ago
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen std::vector<🍌>
 
Even looks quite nice with Chrome unable to render it!
 
5:43 PM
ahhh
 
4* programmer D: runs away
 
So, is it me or does this sound extremely similar to this ? //cc @sehe
 
I think this goes much better if you replace * with 🍌
then int🍌🍌🍌🍌 can be bananas.
 
5:54 PM
-1: Needs more layers of indirection — Lightness Races in Orbit 14 secs ago
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe mention that some of the projects can be brand new, but we'd still like to plug them in, because there's like 3 month activity rule on standard OSS licensing
 
user1804599
Ninja is cool.
 
@rightfold cabal is cool
 
user1804599
Cabal is shit.
 
hm, so far the fact that you can't easily remove redundancy seems dumb
 
6:04 PM
Istalled tfs power tools, can't find them anywhere wtf
 
also for some reason my cabal doesn't like data-files field
 
user1804599
GitHub fails at syntax highlighting Perl.
 
user1804599
 
damn it
I think I will have to either hardcode my shaders (ugh) or create custom post-build thing (ugh)
 
@BartekBanachewicz When you were working on minicraft. Where did you get your information for the terrain generation? (algorithms, chunks, noise, etc)
 
6:09 PM
@rightfold Since parsing it is solving the Halting Problem, that's not really unreasonable.
 
@Borgleader various places over the internet, and I actually engineered some of the solutions myself. Why are you asking?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I want to learn Unity so I'm making a project, and for that I need a minecraft like terrain/world.
 
@Borgleader Well, that's a rather deep topic. In short though, I've used fixed-sized cube chunks on an unordered map with hashed int triples as coordinates.
I am not sure if it's a good project if you're just learning Unity
like, I was able to tune a lot of things because I was working low-level enough
(and there are a lot of other things that I still wanted to improve/change)
 
Well, performance wise I'm not concerned, I mean... minecraft is in Java and not well written either. I should be fine ;)
 
I am not sure why would you want to create something badly TBH
Like, if you already suspect issues with C#/Unity/whatever there, why are you using it in the first place?
 
6:15 PM
@Borgleader How do you know Minecraft isn't well-written? Is the source code available?
 
@FredOverflow Hearsay =/
 
...ok...
 
That and people watched notch code during Mojams
 
What is notch code?
 
notch wasn't the only developer working on minecraft
 
6:16 PM
Notch -> guy who made minecraft
 
and they have improved it since
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't suspect Unity will be a problem. .
 
@Borgleader I don't know, I have never really used it (the idea of having to install a plugin seemed sucky, like going back to Flash).
 
Plugin?
 
6:18 PM
the browser plugin?
 
KSP is Unity and you dont need a plugin for that AFAIK
 
Or do you mean desktop deployment only?
 
Yeah desktop
 
why does git add --all not seem to get all my changes? It says there are still a lot of changes not staged for commit.
 
@Borgleader well dunno, I have no idea how it would work in its ecosystem really.
 
6:20 PM
git add -A
 
I am going to rewrite Minicraft in Haskell hopefully.
but it will base on just GL again
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes still the same thing.
 
oh wow smh
 
@Borgleader Hmm?
 
so much hate
 
6:25 PM
damn it
I think that fuck samples in Cabal, at least for now
I see no reasonable way to make it copy my static files
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
user1804599
Shall I call floats in Styx Float or Double? They are represented using doubles in VM.
 
doesn't matter
 
user1804599
Double might suggest there is Single too. :P
 
user1804599
But using Float = Number<double>; looks so silly.
 
6:29 PM
@Borgleader Well, smoking is stupid when you think about it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yes, but putting that on a sign is rather harsh =/ I mean, at least some smokers do want to quit but cant because addiction.
 
Ell
Also we should let people do what they want to their body
admittedly smoking affects otgers
 
@Borgleader They just don't want it enough?
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes dat pun.
 
6:32 PM
@Borgleader I.e. they want to not suffer whatever unpleasant things quitting implies more than they want to quit.
 
Ell
If you want to kill yourself with tar - go ahead! In fact I encourage you to
 
posted on February 19, 2014 by Herb Sutter

Quick answer: Yes. I see there was also a thread about this on StackOverflow, so I’ll echo this Q&A publicly for others’ benefit and hopefully to dispel confusion. Duncan Forster asked: I’m quite alarmed the C++ committee chose such a bad interface for std::atomic compare_exchange, i.e.:     bool compare_exchange_???(T& expected, T desired, …);I notice you […]

 
user1804599
@Ell First tar, now atomic. Seems like xkcd.com/1168.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's a possibility, but I believe theres a class action lawsuit out there against some tobacco companies who knowingly added addictive substances in their cigarettes. So I'm reluctant to chalk it off to simple lack of willpower.
 
Ell
6:33 PM
Heh yes, that was good timing
 
@Borgleader (lol, US lawsuits). Are you sure that's not related to the companies being assholes by adding that without informing people?
 
user1804599
@Borgleader they once started.
 
user1804599
They were stupid, at least. :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't remember the details, I read about it a while ago.
 
@Borgleader maybe the email is using some weird server that is blacklisted or something
 
6:37 PM
Unless you want to convince me quitting is somehow biologically impossible for some people, I'll stand by my assertion that their willpower is merely weaker than their addiction.
 
that happens on Openshift free hostings for example, because they use Amazon EC3 as a server
 
Confirming the stereotype that white people can't dance.
 
I think he's got the moves.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes True for all smokers and spectacularly unhelpful for everybody.
since it's impossible to measure the strength of addiction for a specific individual, you couldn't possibly use it's relative power to assess who is weak-willed or not.
 
6:42 PM
@Borgleader Relevant
 
and even if you could, people can't magic up new willpower out of nowhere, and shitting on the weak-willed is completely unhelpful for everybody and effectively just a "Your problem is a problem I can't understand because I have a strong will; therefore it's not really a problem so fuck off".
 
I didn't mean to imply that they're all weak-willed
 
it would be like saying, "I have a dick, therefore it's spectacularly unlikely that I'll ever get raped, therefore go away rape victims, don't care about you!".
 
I'm not trying to defend the sign.
 
Oh the sign is totally correct (albeit harshly worded, imo), I'm just saying a smoker trying to quit has the odds stacked against him. Basically I'm just saying its not easy.
 
6:47 PM
hm
I am kinda puzzled how to provide the user state to the callbacks
 
Xeo
Don't start in the first place, problem solved.
People mainly seem to start to 'look cool' with their friends.
 
Right now I am holding it in the infinite loop
so once I get in that loop, I can't reasonably get it out
 
Xeo
Also, there are way too many fucking ads for cigarettes out there.
 
frankly, smoking should be banned, and buying cigarettes restricted to those already addicted and undergoing medical treatment for addiction.
 
so am I doomed with IORefs or can I just hold a pure State as another layer around all framework code?
 
6:48 PM
I never said it was easy either.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG yea... not gonna happen. government makes way too much money with that shit.
 
one of the many reasons why we should burn our governments to the ground.
worthless shits
 
does that even make sense? I'd need to get >>= evalStateT usercb >>= put ?
 
But by making smoking easy we make it harder for them
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz modify
 
6:50 PM
@Xeo just modify $ evalState usercb? hm, prolly.
 
I am still concerned
 
it all looks rather dangerous and un-haskell-like
 
@Borgleader Maybe if you write a correct answer, I'll upvote it.
 
6:51 PM
What's wrong with it :(
It is comparing pointers isnt it?
 
Ell
@DeadMG why should it be?
 
-1: c_str() does not return a char*. You also have some grammatical errors in your post. — Lightness Races in Orbit 29 secs ago
 
Ell
I ought to read transcript before asking.
I will now
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz also, why not just leave the decision to use State to the user? usercb <$> get
 
6:52 PM
@Xeo in this code, I can't set the callbacks like that. I am not sure how to hold user state in my own state though.
 
@Ell Because it's companies profiting off the death and misery of others.
 
Ell
but they smoke by choice
 
Xeo
that way, the user can pass evalState mycallback or something else not involving State
 
bwahaha.
 
Ell
that's like saying macdonalds should be banned
or cars should be banned
 
6:53 PM
a tiny, tiny minority smoke by choice.
most smoke because they are addicted.
 
Ell
@DeadMG I strongly doubt that
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit right, const char*. The important bit was pointer comparison versus string. Oh well
 
and secondly
 
What about gravediggers?
 
@Xeo well I think I am supposed to provide state to the functions that user registers
 
6:53 PM
I absolutely would be in favour of banning or severely limiting McDonalds.
 
so he just assumes that he can get from inside his callbacks
 
Ell
Are you serious?
 
@DeadMG Ah, we can always count on you to present nuanced and reasonable solutions to complex problems.
 
very serious.
 
Ell
What about anything else which has risk in it?
like everything in the world
 
6:54 PM
@DeadMG That would just cause a black market to emerge.
 
there's a difference between "Has risk" and "Has great risk and no benefit"
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz why do you have to assume that those are monadic State functions though? Leave the choice to the user
 
You'd be shifting the problem.
 
Ell
@DeadMG smoking does have benefit
it's enjoyable or it makes you look good, etc.
 
yes, it has the sole benefit of enriching tobacco companies.
 
Ell
6:55 PM
Nobody starts smoking if they don't see a benefit in it
 
@Ell It's not enjoyable per se, but it does have a social advantage.
 
We can fix that.
 
Xeo
he can still use State by passing evalStateT myStateCallback
 
@Xeo what would be the point of passing nonstate data around callbacks though?
 
@Ell People usually start smoking through peer pressure. It's not rational.
 
6:55 PM
and if you think that "enjoyable" or "makes you look good" is even remotely worth "dying of lung cancer"
then I have a mental institute you need to be locked up in for your own safety.
 
it's supposed to be a "smart" library
 
@DeadMG You still don't understand how humans work, now do you?
 
right now, for example, my sample #2 passes a lists of instances, (and sample 1 just one instance)
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel Right - but my point is, if there was no perceived benefit then somebody wouldn't voluntarily start smoking
 
type SampleState = Instance
sampleDraw :: DrawFn SampleState
sampleDraw = get >>= liftIO . draw
 
user1804599
6:55 PM
Hmm.
 
Ell
@DeadMG it's up to the individuals to decide what it's worth - not for us to tell them that it isn't worth it
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz simply so the user can have a stupidly simple non-State callback if he wants to
 
@Ell smoking affects everybody though.
 
@Xeo but that just adds boilerplate for the user :/. Look at the draw function above. It's exactly how I want it.
 
@Ell Er, no.
see, if you die of cancer, then you stop for example being economically active.
and everybody else subsidises your healthcare, either through insurance premiums or taxes.
you drain resources from the rest of society.
 
Ell
6:57 PM
That is a different issue
I know it's connected, but it's opening up a can of worms
 
also, no rational person would decide to smoke.
 
Ell
@DeadMG Irrational people do exist
 
The can of worms won't disappear if you avoid it.
 
@Xeo the problem is not in the fact that it's always state, the problem is how do I pass that state data to the callbacks
 
@DeadMG Here's the catch: there is no such thing as a "rational person".
 
6:57 PM
@EtiennedeMartel stupid social advantage... vodka connects people more than smoking
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Alcohol is a well known social lubricant.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz by passing it as an argument?
 
@EtiennedeMartel That's true. But if you're so irrational as to go killing yourself, then it's time for someone more rational to intervene.
 
Xeo
again, usercb <$> get
 
we stop people from committing suicide and I don't see how suicide by cigarette is any different to suicide by cop or suicide by shotgun or poison.
 
Ell
6:58 PM
The solution isn't to ban smoking, it's to not give healthcare to self inflicted problems
 
it just takes longer and costs more.
 
@DeadMG The average smoker doesn't see it as "killing himself", for the simple reason that he won't die now.
 
Xeo
(that should work as I imagine it, at least)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Which is exactly why external intervention is clearly necessary.
 
@Xeo I think we're in the wrong state now (as in, glisha doesn't have its own State)
 
6:58 PM
The average smoker doesn't give a shit
 
Ell
@DeadMG Do you think we should stop people from killing themselves?
 
@Ell Yes.
 
And you shouldn't either
 
Ell
Wow
 
@Xeo look at the gist again. The state disappears when I enter the loop
 
Ell
6:59 PM
Why on earth should you stop that?
 
@DeadMG how is suicide by cop?
 
@DeadMG Here's a funny thing humans do: they'll avoid a small convenience in the short term at the cost of facing a major issue in the long term.
 
it's illogical, because from the intuitive point of view, the loop won't be interrupted The callbacks are processed in pollEvents in the loop
 
@EtiennedeMartel Which is something we should prevent them from doing if possible.
 

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