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Als
4:00 PM
hmm..silence
 
sbi
@jalf My worrds, exactly. Having two families looking over your should is a lot of pressure and won't make dating any easier. Not to speak of the likeliness of those familiy accepting you say "thanks, but I don't want her".
@CodeMonkey The only reason to marry someone should be out of love and respect for each other, not out of respect (or anything else, FTM) for any third party.
 
Als
I think we are talking here about a thing, that means differently to people in different zones and different cultures, so there cannot be an comparison.
What suits one better might not suit all and vice versa
So the debate is pointless in that sense
 
@sbi Yes but honor plays a big role
 
Als
There's no point in bashing that one way is better than the other.
 
sbi
@Als No, there is no difference. IMO the right to pick whom you are going (to try) to spend the rest of your life with should be as universal a right as the ones granting you enough food to not to starve, freedom of speach, etc.
@CodeMonkey Note that I wrote "should".
 
Als
4:08 PM
@sbi: Everything cannot and should not be tied out to the basics of what freedoms a person is granted just by being a human.
There is a difference in how cultures or communities perceive things
which others do not perceive the same way
 
@Als But marriage is not 'everything'. (I'm confused by the wording.)
 
sbi
@Als Your personal freedom should extend all the way up to the point where it would intrude on someone else's freedom.
 
@sbi now you got a star from me
 
Als
@sbi: how is that relevant to the core issue here?
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach Am I to believe that this is the first of its kind?
 
4:10 PM
hehe
;-)
 
sbi
@Als Freedom to chose your partner is a very essential freedom.
 
Als
@LucDanton: i never said anything about marriage being everything
 
@Als Then it is the wording. I don't understand that previous message.
 
Als
@sbi: And like that many other things, not all cultures do approve of it
and i dont know how do i say its bad without knowing or understanding their point of view about that
 
@Als How is that going to change @sbi's opinion on the matter?
i.e. what kind of argument is that?
I'm also pretty sure he knew that already.
 
Als
4:12 PM
@LucDanton: i already said
8 mins ago, by Als
So the debate is pointless in that sense
but it continues,
 
Oh. I take sbi's words to be a piece of his mind, not an argument.
 
sbi
@Als Yeah, I should know, I grew up in a country that disapproved of that statement that @Alf starred, after all. By luck I had to switch, and never looked back.
 
Als
@sbi: You are born Russian(rather soviet Union) eh
just a guess...
 
@Als There is a difference between arguing something and giving one's opinion on the topic.
 
Jun 22 at 10:49, by sbi
@DeadMG No. I walked 10mins. On sidewalks. (I wasn't born in Siberia, but in Germany.)
Feb 2 at 21:56, by sbi
@JerryCoffin Ah, TP, used that, too. BC3.1 was my first C++ IDE. :) However, since I was born on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain, I didn't get to play with this until the beginning of the 90ies. I'm not sure anymore which version of TP was the first I laid hands on.
@Als Missed by a little :)
 
4:15 PM
I have strong and not so strong opinions on a lot of things that I would never attempt to debate here or anywhere else on the Internet.
 
Als
@LucDanton: I guess i just said a word and everyone jumped up as if im supporting it over all..
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I left a job 4 months ago where I used BC++5 for 4.5 years
 
Als
The mass reaction was exempelary
@CodeMonkey: That is not even the point here lol
 
goes back into hole
 
4:17 PM
Wait the second one is from February.
I wasn't around at the time...
Hmm, bad quote.
 
Als
what is wrong side of the iron curtain?
 
@Als DRG.
East Germany.
Apr 22 at 22:49, by sbi
@JamesMcNellis Being born on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain, I'm somewhat adverse against chnaging the past.
 
oh lulz
still talking about love affairs are we?
 
Ah, I distinctly remembered @sbi using the "wrong side of Iron Curtain" expression while I was here!
:)
 
Als
Godamn it started with you @TonyTheLion
 
4:19 PM
@Als 'The one that shots at you when you attempt to get on the other side' is a good rule of thumb.
 
heheh lulz, I'm good at starting a discussion, then leaving and coming back to find it's still going on
lol
 
Oh, it's GDR, not DRG.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Or DDR. Is DRG Portuguese?
 
Als
@LucDanton: i don't see where i did that
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "was", not "is" (thankfully).
 
sbi
4:20 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I use it quite a lot, I guess.
@Als Look what his message refers to.
 
@LucDanton I translated directly from Portuguese and by analogy with FRG: Democratic Republic of Germany.
 
Als
I give up. i don't even know why we are discussing this, when i said half an hour ago that this is pointless
 
@Als Discussing what?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually the "German" in GDR is an adjective. (And I'm speaking of the original, German version "DDR" here.)
 
Als
I don't abuse people and i usually keep my thoughts and perceptions of whats good or bad is to myself
 
4:22 PM
@sbi Yes, I got it wrong. It's German Democratic Republic.
 
Als
and people just pick to jump on me just because i said something they disapprove of
 
@Als I don't think we're discussing anything anymore.
 
Als
looks like im severely messed up
 
There's nothing about it on my screen anymore.
 
4:23 PM
@CodeMonkey Honor involving the control of the life-choices your children make is not honor. It is pride and cowardice. You are afraid to admit to the rest of your culture that you do not have psuedo-spiritual(pyschological) control over your child. Therefore, said child has "harmed your honor" (in reality, harmed your pride and made you fearful of admitting so to your culture).
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes For all I know, you might stick your adjectives after the nouns. But I believe you have them, so it should not be a substantive.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes We're discussing the state of not discussing anything -- a very deep, existentialist subject.
 
sbi
@Xaade Pyschological control over someone is the worst kind of control. :)
 
@Als As sbi pointed out, you may want to check to what particular message I'm answering.
 
Als
@LucDanton: I don't know what you are reffering to
and frankly, i don't really want to
 
4:24 PM
@sbi I'm not sure I'd say worst -- but probably the most open to abuse.
 
@sbi That's what these cultures are exhibiting when they claim anything done for honor.
 
@Als Then what was your comment about the Iron Curtain about?
 
Honor is laying down your own life. Laying down your child's life is cowardice.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Look at what I italiced.
 
Als
I just come here now on SO only to this chat and I don't need those shitty arguments or discussions really
 
4:25 PM
@sbi *Pys*chological?
 
sbi
@Als No, nobody licks on you. You are saying your opinion, and the others are saying theirs. You just feel like they are picking on you because everybody disagrees with your opinion. That is human and understandable, but not logically correct.
 
@Als I don't understand. You make a comment about the Iron Curtain, I answer to that, you get upset? Then why make the comment?
 
@sbi yes, indeed
@Als you seem so easily upsettable today, what's up man?
 
Als
@LucDanton: i ain't talking about the Iron curtain comment anymore.
isnt that obvious
Yeah, Im pissed off
 
sbi
4:26 PM
@LucDanton He is upset because nobody agrees with him that arranged marriages are a good thing. That IC remark was a side-issue that got out of hand.
 
Neither am I. I took it to a meta level and am discussing discussing the Iron Curtain now.
Isn't that obvious
 
Als
@sbi: Why would i care that someone agrees with me or not?
 
sbi
@Als And that I don't understand.
 
@sbi Yes -- I'm saying psychological control is open to abuse, but not necessarily bad.
 
sbi
@Als Because you are human?
@JerryCoffin And I was talking about @Xaade's pyschological control.
 
4:28 PM
There was a redundant statement here.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes sticks out tongue
 
Als
Because I don't know, I gave up posting answers a couple of days ago due to some shit and now in here i feel like im being picked upon
 
gotta love redundancy
 
@Als But why did you make that IC comment?
And/or why won't you answer that?
 
@Als I'm not picking on you :)
 
sbi
4:29 PM
@Als No, nobody picks on you. You are saying your opinion, and the others are saying theirs. You just feel like they are picking on you because everybody disagrees with your opinion. That is human and understandable, but not logically correct.
 
@sbi It involves a lot of pys. Like applie pys. Hmmm py.
 
@sbi Ah -- I think I may need to stop for caffeine so I have some hope of catching such subtleties. There mere fact that it's almost 10:30 AM here doesn't mean I'm awake yet...
 
Oh gosh, the @Cat was right, the room is broken!
 
Als
@LucDanton:what IC comment?
 
@sbi I'm having a deja vu :P
 
sbi
4:29 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes What? Can somebody please explain to me how this room can be broken?
 
11 mins ago, by Als
what is wrong side of the iron curtain?
 
Als
@LucDanton: By not posting i meant not posting answers, not some comment in here
 
sbi
@LucDanton Why don't you just go back and look up how this whole IC debate came about rather than wasting bandwidth by keeping asking a question that was, in essence, already answered?
 
Apparently switch evaluates only integral value..
So one is forced to evaluate strings using ifs?
 
@Als I don't think you're being picked on. It is with the absolute greatest respect that I say you're full of crap! <strike>Insert closed captioning for the humor impaired here</strike>
 
4:30 PM
@sbi I don't get it, I was here :(
 
wait, I got a "like" on Facebook
 
@Als I'm not picking on you. I just stated that I believe the conception that arranged marriages are more successful is a misconception because the modern world views success as measurable by divorce rate. I pointed out that there's a lot of marriages that are not successful, yet haven't divorced. Marriage is a heart issue, not a legal issue. Divorce was only introduced because the hardness of people's hearts.
 
Als
@LucDanton: I got it that Iron curtain meant East Germany
 
@Als Okay.
 
sbi
@Als If so, then you got it wrong. The Iron Curtain is a more or less poetic description of the border between east and west. As such it ran right through Germany. But it was not East Germany.
 
4:31 PM
@als << std::flush
 
Everyone was talking about a different thing, and assuming everyone else was also talking about that same thing, while they weren't. This is why I said the room is broken.
 
Apparently switch evaluates only integral value..
So one is forced to evaluate strings using ifs?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes And this is why I ask questions, to clarify. I'm not being rhetorical.
 
Als
@sbi: Siberia?
 
@Als "iron curtain" was the border between soviet union and western europe
 
Als
4:32 PM
so i asked @sbi, was he born in soviet union and the bot posted some comments implying east germany
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach No. There is no border between SU and wstern Europe.
 
nobody's interested in the "like" that I got on Facebook?
 
Seriously, I have to agree, to at least a limited degree: while arranged marriages aren't ideal either, the simple fact is that many (most?) teenagers are affected enough by their hormones that their own decisions about who they like or dislike and who to marry are clearly suspect. Even at best, somebody who's (say) 18 years old has no real way of even imagining what living with somebody for 80+ years really means.
 
@sbi past tense, you know
 
I can't even fathom how much is 80 years.
 
Als
4:33 PM
Can we stop the fucked up talk about marriages, the @TonyTheLion, for whom this topic started is long gone
 
lofl
 
@Als yea I agree
I'm long gone
4
 
@sbi i was a border guard during my (obligatory) army service, so i know a little about it.
 
haha
 
Als
@AlfPSteinbach: I like added u once on FB, and you never accepted it, so should i bother about you getting a "like" on FB? really?
 
sbi
4:34 PM
@AlfPSteinbach There never was.
@JerryCoffin Who says people have to marry when they are 18?
 
@sbi so, the silly Spetnaz on the other side, they were just there on holiday. i c
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach You know, between the SU and western Europe there still was eastern and middle Europe.
That's why western Europe and the SU never shared a border.
 
(central)
 
sbi
@LucDanton Oh, is it central Europe in English? Sorry. You know what I mean.
 
@sbi Silly me, I thought it was Russia on the other side of border. The army must have brainwashed us.
 
4:36 PM
Mitteleuropa is the German term equal to Central Europe. The word has political, geographic and cultural meaning. While it describes a geographical location, it also is the word denoting a political concept of a German-dominated and exploited Central European union that was put into motion during First World War. The historian Jörg Brechtefeld describes 'Mitteleuropa' as the following: Geography The German academic Ständiger Ausschuss für geographische Namen (Permanent Committee on Geographical Names) at the Federal Agency for Cartography and Geodesy refers to a territory roughly ...
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes How do you dig this out within seconds?
 
@sbi I knew it already!
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach So in which western European country did you serve at the border?
 
Either that or l33t Google skillz. I guess you can never know for sure :P
 
@sbi Guess three times.
 
4:37 PM
@sbi Nobody (I was past 40 before I got married) -- but I'd guess that a simple majority of people (at least around here) marry before they're 30 anyway.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean it's all in this huge positronic brain of yours?
 
@sbi Not only I did, but now from this clarification I learned a lot more!
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach Ok: Spain? Portugal? France?
 
Did you miss on purpose?
 
@sbi Stupid guesses.
 
sbi
4:39 PM
@JerryCoffin So why did you use these extreme examples? Contrary to popular believe, doing such doesn't prove a point.
 
@AlfPSteinbach Certainly in school they did their best to brainwash us -- the maps we got never showed any actual countries inside the SU, just a huge blotch of red.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes To be frank, I have a hard time coming up with other western European countries. I'm not sure whether, for example UK is western or central Europe.
 
'Un-continental Europe', they probably want their own category.
 
@sbi You can take a clue from the "Windows ANSI Western" font in Windows, where it's used.
 
@sbi I learned it as Northern.
 
sbi
4:41 PM
@AlfPSteinbach That is also used in Australia.
 
@sbi Hmm...I'm not sure getting married (or wanting to) at 18 is particularly extreme at all. In most states in the US, that's the age at which you can get married without parental consent, and I believe most of Europe (for one example) follows roughly the same rule.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, Ok. But it wasn't western Europe anyway.
 
@sbi yes, which means Australia is regarded as part of the Western world.
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach Yeah, but still, last time I looked Australia wasn't part of western Europe. ICBWT.
 
@sbi good, progress
 
4:42 PM
So, everything west of the Danube is Western Europe in American maps?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Hardly. The danube is going west to south east, IIRC.
 
(Shh, I don't know of any other river or suitable geographical feature around those parts ;)
 
If we're going to talk about things like this, I think an xkcd reference for those of us in the US is necessary:
 
sbi
Anyway, since @Alf doesn't seem to want to make an effort to cut short this misunderstanding, I break down: The IC was between eastern and western blocks. SU shared borders with eastern and northern Europe, but never with western Europe, which I was lead to believe is what's west of Germany.
@JerryCoffin LOL! That is why maps not putting the null meridian into the middle bother so many people.
 
@sbi Yes, I think you listed all non-microstates in Western Europe (at least as I was taught; I've seen several variations of Western Europe)
 
sbi
4:46 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean @Alf might have served in Monaco? :b
Anyway. I guess I'll be off for a while now.
 
@sbi Later.
 
@sbi See ya.
 
@sbi Nah -- he was part of the San Marino army.
 
well, the people that invented the prime meridian weren't exactly standard conformists
 
4:53 PM
@AlfPSteinbach Hmmm..LetDown can't seem to make up its mind about whether to onebox that or not. It's gone back and forth three times now (at least for me).
 
the markdown wins isolated battles. i'm here for the long war.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that's just propaganda, a CIA map
 
lol
Everyone uses their own personal definition of Western Europe.
 
I think that's the region I associate with 'Western Europe' the most. Might want to include Iceland, too.
 
4:56 PM
No Northern Europe?
 
Nordic country, yes. Northern Europe, I'm not so sure.
Better check some coordinates, map projections are weirding me out.
 
Oh yeah, those are a biatch.
 
Als
flag the bot saying the B-word
 
What word?
Ah, that.
 
Western coast is around 20 degrees West, isn't that a lot?
 
user457812
4:59 PM
Flag everything until the end of time!
 
Lemme add a typo :P
There, fixed.
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: naah lol that is still offending to me
 

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