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12:00
@harold Depends on how they do it, and what the charge is.
@AndyProwl Looks fine, for a shitty code that uses C strings
@harold of course he needs to know how to use a tool, not how to make it. I do not need to know how an mouse actually works to move the cursor.
The gardener needs to be familiar with tools that enable him to do his job. Whether or not a hoe is part of that toolbox is really not that significant
And counts bytes and not characters
And never skip braces argh
The CS thread should be closed as 'Too broad'.
12:01
@CatPlusPlus No.
@CatPlusPlus Wait, so it's OK? Then I must be dumb
@jalf ... my point was more about knowing how to make his tool compared to just how to use them.
@thecoshman Funfact: here, it's called datalogi, implying it's about data, not computers.
@AndyProwl It's broken.
How can p become nullptr?
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's my impression too
12:01
@AndyProwl Can't.
Oh, right. Needs dereference
@jalf vOv it's a mad world
@thecoshman yeah, sure, but technically, a gardener doesn't even need to know what a hoe is. Just like a computer scientist doesn't really need to know what a computer is.
It comes from Bjarne's new book ("Tour of C++")
And he then refactors the for into a while
Typo probably
12:01
Well whatever. And I'm actually OK with CS being super abstract, BUT, 99% of the students go in with the expectation of becoming a programmer, and that wouldn't be what would happen. They'd be computer scientists, the Ivory Tower kind, which is fine, but they wouldn't be a programmer.
They're tools that you probably want to use, but they're not what your profession or field is about
Bjarne has always had terrible copy-editing.
It's not a typo
And he's terrible at details.
Also you're reading C++ books so there's your error
12:02
Because that's the section where he explains the usage of nullptr
@jalf well... I think I see your point. He may not need to know the proper name for a hoe, but it is good to know such a thing exists to solve a certain problem. Eitehr way though.
And in that case you have to test for 0
(char, not char*)
So that's just plain bogus
If you're doing C crap without sizes, while(*p++) is where it's at anyway.
12:03
He then does while (p) { ... }
@harold IMO 'computer science' is all about abstractions. Playing a game is abstracted from making a game which abstracted from making a game engine etc. etc.
And takes char* instead of char const*.
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
So much wrong.
(as another way of rewriting the same example)
any way, lunch :D
user3010322
My vision went hazy for a moment.
user3010322
12:04
And Andy Prowl's named looked blue.
user3010322
Undercover mod!!!
Where then, do you get developers from who can develop a driver for a triac stack to control a 2000hp induction motor?
@AndyProwl Also, isn't that the first chapters or so of TC++PL?
Man, this is really bad. I hoped he didn't write this book in total hurry too - and someone took time to actually run the examples - not like TCPL
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, this book is basically a rework of Chapters 1-4 of TCPL
Ell
Ell
12:06
TIL how they treat priapism
Not sure if the exact same example is in TCPL though
@AndyProwl What a money grab.
@AndyProwl Can you tell me around where to find it?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Indeed. I bought because of this:
> I have never met a programmer of any experience level who didn’t learn something from reading it
@thecoshman do you acknowledge that the presence or absense of undo is hardly related to keyboard layout?
C++ book is bad? Well I never
12:07
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's on page 11
(in "A Tour of C++")
@CatPlusPlus Maybe, but I've never had to utter the words 'Do you want fries with that?' ;)
@thecoshman sure, it's a very useful tool, and he'd probably be much more efficient with it. Just like computer scientists with a computer. But he's still being taught gardening, and not hoe science ;)
Also I have no idea why people think Bjarne is some sort of C++ god
12:08
And then it continues on page 12
It's correct in TC++PL.
There is ho science?
@CatPlusPlus Yeah. That ridiculous Creator fallacy
@sehe It's a fallacy that the Creator is ridiculous? :/
12:08
@CatPlusPlus Well, not a god, but he invented the language, so it makes (made?) sense for me to assume he is trustworthy
IMO Bjarne is a very important guardian to c++. Still
He invented the early version of a language that no longer exists
note capitalization.
I specifically added that for you...
@AndyProwl Don't.
7 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Bjarne has always had terrible copy-editing.
I should have put more emphasis on the "terrible", because it is really really bad.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Right, guess I shouldn't
12:09
Embarrassingly bad, I think.
But somebody should double-check that, right? Doesn't he have reviewers?
How is it correct in TC++PL?
Ahaha that isocpp link
> Page 13, read characters, not "rear characters"
I don't know why but it is extremely funny
lol
I didn't get to page 13 yet
I'm wondering whether I should
I wouldn't get to page 13 of a programming book either
12:13
How much does that one cost?
Hell I probably wouldn't get to page 2
I'd fall asleep beforehand
Half as much as TC++PL?
OW.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I paid £17.47
You should have simply gotten TC++PL.
@AndyProwl Yeah, TC++PL is £35.99, so about half.
I have that. I thought there would be something new to learn. And I like collecting good books anyway, even if there is an overlap. Perhaps it's just bad luck that he made a mistake in the first pages, and the rest of the book will be fine. Still...
12:15
"In A Tour of C++ , Stroustrup excerpts the overview chapters from that complete reference, expanding and enhancing them"
It doesn't look like much of an enhancement to add mistakes that are not in the other.
Random enchantments man
You never know
my brother's laptop has frequent shutdowns after using it for a few hours. this is only recent after it worked fine for years. any ideas on what could cause this?
Running out of battery!
I'll forward the message.
12:19
Batteries wear out
Ell
Ell
@StackedCrooked power distribution failure? O.O
When I was visiting at Christmas eve his laptop was playing music while attached to power cable. And then it shutdown.
I first thought it might have been overheating but it wasn't.
Could be dead battery and brief power interruption caused by bad cable connection.
Ell
Ell
I wonder if it shuts down with no battery but plugged in
that info could be useful, right?
user3010322
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
thanks!
12:25
@ThePhD That is one large hexadecimal number
user3010322
@TonyTheLion You can hex my decimals all day, honey bunches~
user3010322
@sehe s/!/ obama!
user3010322
So, I lost a webpage. All the information I entered disappeared into a black hole.
@ThePhD <3
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111‌​111111111111111111111111111111111111
12:26
@ThePhD I'm still here, you don't need a webpage
@CatPlusPlus Thanks for the binary translation :)
Why are there zigamorphs all over my screen?
Because Cat
I'm not in the mood to work
@CatPlusPlus next time use run-length encoding
@sehe I'm flattered. :)
@StackedCrooked Lemme guess - Sony Vaio.
12:31
0
Q: (Known) compiler bug in VC12?

seheThis program, when compiled with VC12 (in Visual Studio 2013 RTM), without precompiled headers[1] leads to a crash (in all build configurations), when really it shouldn't: #include <string> void foo(std::string const& oops = {}) { } int main() { foo(); } I know of two silent bad codegen ...

@MartinJames don't remember the brand
Soooo. I think it might be another compiler bug after all. You gotta love minimal reproducers:
#include <string>
void foo(std::string const& oops = {}) { }
int main() { foo(); }
CRASH
Thanks MVC
Ell
Ell
My Sony Vaio has power problems
@Ell Mine doesn't
0
A: Function taking a std::auto_ptr<Base> that can accept std::auto_ptr<Derived>

Steve JessopYou can cast without ambiguity: function(static_cast<std::auto_ptr<Base> >(derivedPtr)); Be aware that for this to work, Base must have a virtual destructor. Otherwise the code has undefined behavior.

what the???
12:33
@Ell My Sony Vaio sounds a bit like My Little Pony
the fuck, auto_ptr, who the heck still uses that?
Ell
Ell
My Sony Vaio, My Sony Vaio, you'll always be in my heart <3
@Ell You sound like me, ScottW or PhD now.
damnit its spreading
va·io (n)
1. An extremely bad laptop brand.
see also: shit
Ell
Ell
@TonyTheLion Haha it's okay, I'm not into that
12:34
What is a good laptop brand then?
@TonyTheLion yeah and who gives answers using them instead of just saying "DON'T"
Not Vaio
@CatPlusPlus Thanks Captain Obvious
Actually I have yet to see a good laptop brand
@CatPlusPlus I was expecting this.
12:36
They range from terrible to mediocre
Ell
Ell
the asus ultrabooks look good
Anyone recognize this VC12 compiler bug? http://stackoverflow.com/q/21044488/85371 Reproduce #include<string> void f(std::string const&s={}){} int main(){f();}
It's like in the process of making things fit in a smallest possible case someone forgot about quality
^ Talk about minimal reproducers :)
If you can make it in a tweet, whilst asking a question and linking to the SO question. That counts as minimal
@CatPlusPlus yea well, it also has to with price, and the fact that these days laptops have to be quite cheap, yet as fast (almost) as a desktop etc
12:37
Your bug report has been forwarded to VS team and will be resolved in VS 2016. Maybe.
@sehe Yea. Nice :)
Also you'll have to pay full price to get it
Have a nice day
I won't
You won't have a nice day?
Indeed
12:38
@TonyTheLion That's why I don't want to bother with laptops if possible
I have a Dell Latitude E6530 laptop at work. Not the most elegant of laptops, but it does the job.
I have a desktop at work
If Cat were a news editor, all headlines would have the word "terrible" in it.
"Terrible humans in terrible car crash, died because of their terribleness!"
In the case of Sony laptops, I am reasonably happy with 'terrible', though I would myself go with 'actively malicious'.
because fuck credible sources
@sehe As for the workaround, it seems that void foo(std::string const& oops = std::string()) works
(or even std::string{} FWIW)
@StackedCrooked I have the same :)
12:45
@AndyProwl Yeah. Figures. It seems that MSVC has been been booby trapped ever since they added uniform initialization. I think they somehow erronously make this take the implicit zero-initialization path (as for aggregates, where e.g. int x[10]={0} works)
@TonyTheLion aahahaha
And people are surprised when I laugh at quoting Wikipedia
@TonyTheLion I requested a workstation. So that's what I'm having
Well. Listed citations enable the reader to check the source :/
It's the scientific way.
Oh fuck. I answer a question correctly, then get downvoted:
http://stackoverflow.com/a/21043508/758133
12:49
Goddamn Win8
Windows Defender updates show up everytime I boot it, but somehow Windows Defender is outdated
@sehe But if that's the case, why does it work when using precompiled headers?
@AndyProwl Does it?
@sehe Oh. I assumed it did because you specified to create the project without precompiled headers. My bad
@CatPlusPlus You think you have it bad? I have to buy a Win8 laptop:(( I've been putting it off for as long as possible, but now it's getting urgent.
At least you'll have drivers that actually work with Win8
12:51
@AndyProwl I edited the Q to make it more clear. Thanks for noting. And thinking along
VAIO(tm) is too good for AMD drivers to work
@CatPlusPlus Well, hopefully, yes:)
It needs a custom one
Because it has INTEL GPU
That I don't even ever use because why the fuck would you
@sehe No problem, actually I'm interested in it too, since we plan to switch to VC12
AMD driver doesn't work properly
And VAIO driver doesn't even want to install
So there you go
user3010322
12:52
@TonyTheLion MSI can make some decent laptops with an alright warranty policies that come with it. Toshiba is into making ~~gaming~~ laptops, but those have typical heat issues unless you modify them (in the way of: hard-gluing bottle caps to the bottom to elevate it up, which you'd be surprised drops the heat down a lot, even on soft surfaces (all you need is the extra space)).
Fu-ckin shit
I'm not good at syllables
I'm not ever buying any more Sony shit. Once was more than enough.
@ThePhD Wait, what
Did they put heat vents on the bottom
what the fuck
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus Toshiba likes to put them on the bottom/sides
I have a fan under my Vaio at all times
because.... heat
12:54
Well I used external cooler too but that's not the point
@ThePhD On the bottom is just dum
Jesus you don't put heat vents on a laptop on the bottom of the laptop
user3010322
MSI is innovative and have slim fronts but raised backs with like,
user3010322
fucking jet exhausts
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PUT THAT LAPTOP IN A LAP
12:54
I think Mac's also have vents in the bottom
IIRC
Ahahahahah
What
@CatPlusPlus Of course not, that's too logical.
What a surprise.
I mean Apple is not good at computers but what
user3010322
My last macbook pro had heat coming out the bottom and sides.
user3010322
12:55
(I got it for free, don't judge me!)
~~design~~
Macs tend to be good for pancakes.
Especially Airs.
@ThePhD I'm judging you
@ThePhD After you set fire to it, sure.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yea that's about the only thing they're good for
12:56
The bottom should be just warm at best
I had to attempt debugging a mac that wouldn't boot one time
didn't even give me an error message
The vent absolutely needs to go to the side or back
just cycled a reboot continually
happy debugging. Fuck YOU APPLE
@TonyTheLion Skip/dumpster.
If I put my tea on the left of VAIO(tm) it will never get cold
12:57
@MartinJames wasn't my mac, else I would have
I have a Samsung laptop, Samsung screens, Samsung drive, Samsung phone. I'm an accidental fanboy.
2
@CatPlusPlus Hahahaha, good idea actually
But seriously fuck Vaio
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmmmm that accidental bit is suspicious
So many people have this shit
user3010322
12:58
But MSI's laptops are good as for as heat's concerned. You can run intense games on it and then it'll just exhaust things from the back with its fucking jet-engine fans.
One of my friends is working at a store that sells that shit
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, I have a 256GB Samsung SSD and an S3. No problems so far.
user3010322
Those shits are ridiculous, haha.
Why are ubiquitous (I COULD NOT SPELL THIS WORD) things are so bad
user3010322
But they get the job done.
user3010322
12:59
@CatPlusPlus ~~Cheap~~
@AndyProwl Well. I'm not planning on downgrading. Yet.
I really like the S3. Except for the Android part.
That is horrible.
It's not even that it's cheap
user3010322
Well, somehow they're holding their brand name up.
Ell
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes what would you rather have?
user3010322
12:59
It ain't quality that's doing it, that's for sure.
Cheap parts are one thing, fucking up design so bad that it drains battery even when it's fucking off is another
The laptop has now three years and quite nice.
I don't need an extreme gaming laptop. Only real requirements are decent screen size, useable keyboard and SSD.

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