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18:00
@R.MartinhoFernandes he tries to use some fucked up logic but fails miserably
Conversely, you can't be suggesting that having two PhDs does not lend credibility to his intelligence
:13975245 obviously means 0.5.5.5...to arbitrary precision :)
:13975245 No, at least normally. It means 5 (no .anything), item number 9.
I find it weird that someone is so easily taking the assertion that a sum of positive numbers is negative as a fact.
wait pirate really believes it?
18:01
@R.MartinhoFernandes vOv maths
@thecoshman what
@BartekBanachewicz I like it.
as if maths is fucking something people in weird robes do in the basement
@thecosh sounded to me like "phds" not "maths".
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I realize you're quoting somebody else's mistake, but in this case I don't believe it's one guy with two PhD's, but two guys with one PhD apiece.
18:02
@BartekBanachewicz lol
@JerryCoffin IIRC, more than one apiece
@BartekBanachewicz I'm sure there's some of that too.
@thecoshman and you just said that because two people in wizard robes said something it must be true
go figure.
@JerryCoffin :)
<tomalak> << ('\xDE' + '\x05');
<geordi> -29
@R.MartinhoFernandes orly
@BartekBanachewicz no, I'm saying I have more faith in two people in wizard robes they have earned than 'some guy' in a chatroom.
@BartekBanachewicz you mean like a....math robe?
18:04
@thecoshman so basically you didn't listen to them?
@BartekBanachewicz Nice strawman. You always were good at those...
didn't even ask me if I meant bath robe :v
No doubt whatsoever and extreme eagerness to dismiss anything that says otherwise unless it comes with three PhDs.
@BartekBanachewicz as if it's not!
@BartekBanachewicz to who?
18:05
@thecoshman to people who said that "herp derp if you keep summing -1 and 1 you can take the average of the values"
and get 1/2
"herp derp" what
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, I do not deny that 1+2+...+n-1+n does indeed come to a positive value that is rather large.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit herp derp is implicit considering the joke on people who don't know anything about series.
@BartekBanachewicz oh knows an idea that sounds counter intuitive to me, it must be wrong
18:06
Because last I checked -1/2 is not a rather large positive value.
why am I even getting upvotes on this one?
0
A: Comparison signed and unsigned char

JefffreyThey both output 0 because unsigned values can get converted to signed values, not viceversa (like you said).

upvotes are confusing me
@R.MartinhoFernandes raptz was summing a fixed sum, that is not what the video is about.
@thecoshman It was a part of my mathematical analysis course. And you know, I passed.
Oh I forgot infinities are magical.
@thecoshman no, he basically stated that the sum of linear series is n(n+1)/2
@R.MartinhoFernandes Now wear your robe and wizard hat.
18:07
@R.MartinhoFernandes It is if you store it in an unsigned float
See my updated post. I enalrhed the demonstrative code. — Vlad from Moscow 7 mins ago
@R.MartinhoFernandes you just didn't sum hard enough
user3010322
I said that the series diverges, and as a result it has no real sum.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah. I had that 2 hours ago. The various versions of the OData Spec are pretty fucked up :S
still, Ramanujan seems to be the person who was able to give the sum such a value, and it is accepted as a valid and useful value for the sum.
The limit of n(n+1)/2 when x goes towards positive infinity is clearly -1/2.
18:10
It isn't a true sum, that's why I said it's misleading.
> Although the Ramanujan summation of a divergent series is not a sum in the traditional sense, it has properties which make it mathematically useful
@R.MartinhoFernandes s/x/n/
@thecoshman yeah it's not a sum.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit He "leahrned"
@R.MartinhoFernandes (it's -1/12)
@thecosh again with the name dropping!!
user3010322
18:11
@melak47 I need some more help, I think.
@thecoshman who cares. It's not the sum of 1..n
@BartekBanachewicz I do beg your pardon if I accidentally referred to 'sum'
@ThePhD summing positive integers? :)
user3010322
I have an applicable and powerful RasterFont system that works with a batcher. What I'm having trouble with not is a non-raster-font system. =[
@thecoshman And if you didn't :/
18:11
@thecoshman 1 + 2 + 3 +...+n is a sum of 1..n
@R.MartinhoFernandes vOv should I drop the proof?
and it's not equal to -1/12
You accidentally did that when you said "1+2+...
user3010322
@melak47 You're all the positivity I need for the rest of infinity, baby ♡.
@thecoshman seriously did you even read about series ever?
18:12
@BartekBanachewicz well please do correct those fine chaps, they seemed to have mind quit the fool of them selves, and many more I am sure.
I mean the fact you can find cryptic shit there is obvious.
You're just perpetuating the misleading aspects that Rapptz mentioned.
so much fail on stackoverflow.com/q/21027658/560648 in comments and that only answer
user3010322
Also, you know what I need?
@thecoshman You're basically missing the point.
user3010322
18:13
a PrimitiveBatcher
user3010322
that's what I need.
or rather, whoosh.
@ThePhD what's the trouble? enable BGRA support on device creation, require platform update KB12376123123, and D2D1 to the rescue. and for GL there's a thing/lib
user3010322
@melak47 >.>
user3010322
BGRA. u.u
user3010322
18:14
Why doesn't D2D do RGBA or ARGB?
user3010322
What's wrong with that, huh?!
@BartekBanachewicz go on
all you need is BGRA support, none of your render targets and crap need to be BGRA
You quoted it already.
40
Q: Why does $1+2+3+\dots = {-1\over 12}$?

perplexed$$\lim_{N\to\infty} \sum_{i=1}^N \, i = +\infty$$ $\displaystyle\sum_{n=1}^\infty n^{-s}$ only converges to $\zeta(s)$ if $\text{Re}(s) > 1$. Why should analytically continuing to $\zeta(-1)$ give the right answer?

TLDR; However, mathematically speaking, there is no "right answer" for summation techniques for divergent series;
user3010322
18:16
@melak47 Hmmph. Fine. I guess I could maybe try it a tiny bit.
user3010322
Aww, damnit. Do I require this extra D2D thing to be instantiated with the graphics device, or do I make the user ask for it?
@thecoshman so if you can read those equations and understand them, you can stop bullshitting us about PhDs. If you can't, then basically you lack some background to talk about it.
No offense.
@thecoshman You are confusing the term "sum", I think that's your biggest issue here at the moment. If you do 1 + 2, the sum of those numbers is 3. When you keep going with the summation all the way to infinity, you get something that "diverges", which means there isn't a concrete value given that is the actual sum. There are ways to try to "compute" the sum of an infinite series but these are not "actual" sums. They just take a partial form of it and do other computations with it.

These include things such as analytical continuation, "averaging", etc. The actual "sum" that we know the wor
@ThePhD how are you gonna ask the user....if you can't render text! :p
user3010322
18:17
@melak47 u.u
user3010322
I just meant, like
@Rapptz I can float with this
user3010322
Do I wrap the ID2DContext1 and ID2DDevice1 with GraphicsDevice and just provide its services naturally?
user3010322
Or do I make a separate GraphicsDevice2D and then have that take a GraphicsDevice& to interop with to get the D2D functionality?
18:20
I wonder if there's type theory chatroom on math.se
user3010322
Huh. The GraphicsDevice2D behaves more like an immediate mode thing. Maybe I should just make this a TextBatch instead.
Xeo
Xeo
@Rapptz Infinity in reality is like undefined in Haskell
what's with all the batches
Xeo
Xeo
Just weird and breaking stuff
either way, whilst the -1/12 answer is not a conventional sum, it is, apparently (and I think I will trust these guys when they say this) used in physics.
user3010322
18:20
@melak47 That's how D2D behaves.
I should start that room.
@ThePhD uh huh
I got 99 compiler warnings but a batch ain't one!
I use undefined to launch type-level programs
user3010322
myd2dcontext.Begin(); (Draw Calls) myd2dcontext.End();
user3010322
Man
user3010322
18:22
What the hell does D2D even do for me besides text anyways. :c
@ThePhD uh. dude. that's why you install the platform update and use D3D11-ified D2D1
@thecosh however, that there is some property of that summation that is used in physics doesn't sound as impressive as "the sum of the natural numbers is a negative fraction"
user3010322
@melak47 I don't know what you even mean here...
user3010322
The calls to begin and end are necessary?
not on the context o.O
18:24
@R.MartinhoFernandes wait... are you saying some radical counter intuitive idea was put forward from a video series with which one of the aims is to get people into maths?
now that really is shocking!
I think you don't even need a D2D1 context to do text stuff
@thecoshman they like to fuck with people, those people in robes.
user3010322
@melak47 They look pretty necessary to me!
@ThePhD the context doesn't even have begin and end
@BartekBanachewicz see part about getting people into maths
user3010322
18:25
user3010322
@melak47 Uh... ? ^^
It's not a radical counter intuitive idea. It's a misleading formulation that works great as link bait.
damn PhDCase.
user3010322
@Rapptz itsreallygreat, ILoveIt ♡
2nd ugliest case of all.
nothing will take the throne of Bjarne_case though.
nOtEvEnDuMBCaSe
Doesn't C# use ThisCase?
@ThePhD you're just...evil.
user3010322
What? D:
user3010322
What did I do wrong? u.u
I just use it for templates because it looks okay there.
18:28
devicecontext has begin and enddraw because it inherits from rendertarget
PascalCase, yes.
user3010322
@melak47 Should I not be calling them?
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh I wouldn't deny they look for odd things that will draw traffic. But the people in the numberphile videos are not doing them for the money, they do it for the maths. Or are very good at coming across as such
@ThePhD I don't know, I called them on the render target on which I am drawing o.O
not sure exactly what the context does here
user3010322
Well.
18:30
@thecoshman their videos were hardly begginer level anyway. Even if you don't get them exactly, you might just get into the field in general
I don't think being misleading helps.
Ell
Ell
I think it's cool that there are more irrational numbers than rational
user3010322
As far as I know, drawing text is going to make my head spin.
user3010322
But for my next game, I need to draw unicode strings, without exception.
@thecoshman That's like showing people advanced 3d graphics to make them want code games; they will start with 2d anyway, huh?
user3010322
18:30
RasterFonts won't save me here. u.u
@Ell Well, it's easy to reason about :)
@ThePhD good for you! WinAPI returns error codes instead of throwing :E
@ThePhD AHAHAHAHA you're so so so fucked
And it's one thing to do it to grab views, another to keep it so after you watch it.
18:30
@BartekBanachewicz I'd say so
0.1111 and 0.11111 are already two different irrational numbers!
user3010322
@BartekBanachewicz u.u What, why? D:
user3010322
@melak47 Har har. D:
Well
@ThePhD because it's single-handedly the worst thing I've seen in consumer grade programming problems.
18:31
I need more 1s and random digits :(
> It is not clear and does not show the mechanizm
lol
mechanizm
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, from watching the 'bonus' video, giving it the 'answer' -1/12 is useful.
My execution has failed me, never mind me :(
@thecoshman for quantum physicists.
@BartekBanachewicz but it's easy, just feed your...uh, UTF-16...I think...encoded string to DrawTextW and everything will be fine :D
18:32
That bonus video uses analytical continuation, which is arguably the neater way of solving it.
@BartekBanachewicz sure, but give me a use for the sum of such a series :P
@thecosh I don't know. I see people all over repeating the misleading statement.
In digital typography, combining characters are characters that are intended to modify other characters. The most common combining characters in the Latin script are the combining diacritical marks (including combining accents). Unicode also contains many precomposed characters, so that in many cases it is possible to use both combining diacritics and precomposed characters, at the user's or application's choice. This leads to a requirement to perform Unicode normalization before comparing two Unicode strings and to carefully design encoding converters to correctly map all of the valid w...
@Rapptz that video is also 20 minutes long :P
@thecoshman string theory
18:33
@BartekBanachewicz and what, utf-16 can't do that?
@melak47 it's not about storage. It's about drawing them
@R.MartinhoFernandes they are just missing the context. For most people, it is useless information. But a few people might just care to get into maths
@BartekBanachewicz DrawTextW has got your back. I think. :D
@Bartek DrawTextW does it vOv
@BartekBanachewicz I believe that is one that requires it be -1/12 vOv
user3010322
18:34
....
user3010322
VectorBatch
what
user3010322
That's it! That's the name!
..for what
@thecosh Oh great so now most people can keep parroting this nonsense and a few get into maths.
18:35
@R.MartinhoFernandes how nice?
user3010322
VectorBatch is for drawing smooth things at any resolution, and wraps up hte functionality of D2D (on Windows) and FreeType/Cairo-Pango-libSVG-Whatever (on Not-Windows).
@ThePhD interesting.
More for SVGs from my POV but still
Also I've used Google Maps API today for the first time
it's actually fun
user3010322
VectorBatch will also take care of optimally packing anything you hand to the underlying engine.
@R.MartinhoFernandes problem?
Yet another time I posted my home address on the web by mistake /cc @R.M
user3010322
18:36
My only stark issue with VectorBatch is that it will be highly implementation dependent, but... shrug. Oh well, that's the cost of such things?
@ThePhD packing anything?
user3010322
@melak47 Batching calls up to make sure you're getting the best bang for your buck.
user3010322
Ostensibly, it might not be necessary at all because d2d might do that all for you.
So guys. What's (-1)!?
18:38
lol
user3010322
42
@Rapptz number of fucks I give?
@Rapptz that ternary operator is missing something
:D
okey, time to play some LoL
@Rapptz anyway, is there a trick question?
I don't think so.
I'd say it's in the same bucket as 1 $0
1/0
yup
(0! = 1, right?)
@Rapptz I'm not sure how factorial should be applied here.... "sum all numbers from n to 1"... so -1+0+1... 0?
18:40
complex infinity
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes
@thecoshman n! = (n+1)!/(n+1)
@R.MartinhoFernandes yup
@Rapptz wait... I thought it was n!=n+ (n-1)!
multiplication
18:42
clearly I learnt factorial wrong :P
@ThePhD how are you going to do the text rendering? into a texture/render target owned by the batch thing? because I think that one does need to be BGRA, I don't know if you can render into an RGBA render target...if you can though, you could just flip all the colors around to match :D
@Xeo stop stealing my subscription list XD
@ThePhD I assume you figured it out? (I just woke up >.>)
@thecoshman you mean n! = n * (n-1)!, right?
Wait. I'm on the wrong side of the River.
18:44
@Jefffrey ah yes.
but we stop at 1... normally... but that would be due to 1!=1...
@thecosh You can go back until 0. Only -1 stops being real.
@R.MartinhoFernandes What should I try to look into next for ogonek?
all negative integers are complex infinity
@ThePhD you could make an RAII thing for your batch thing. Begin()s when created, End()s when destroyed ^_^
18:48
@thecoshman 1! isn't particularly surprising, it's the 0! = 1 that is
Ell
Ell
Mm egg on toast with brown sauce
not surprising if you think about it
well, yeah, it has to be that way
given n! = (n+1)!/(n+1) you plug in 0 and get 0! = 1!/1 = 1
it's the solution of the equation 1!=1*x
18:49
that too :P
except that one is weird to think about imo
Don't call me weird!
@R.MartinhoFernandes we are talking about 0! here ;)
@Jefffrey 0! is x
don't lie to me
Ell
Ell
18:51
Dr Martinho
@R.MartinhoFernandes shut up you :(
@Jefffrey I write awesome code.
@Borg dunno. Let me get home.
@Rapptz yeah, that formula is cleverer than n! = n * (n-1)!
@Borgleader of course you do, dear :)
I'm cleverer!
I need to pee.
18:53
@R.MartinhoFernandes a clever git >:D
@ThePhD actually, I just tried it. changed the text render target to RGBA_8_unorm, not even a warning :)
Today I got off at the right station but I wanted to get off at the next one to pick up a package.
I'll never get it right.
@ThePhD and the color channels aren't even flipped or anything.
I'm going to pretend I do it on purpose to lose my pursuers.
"It just adds a weird symbol" seriously who the fuck hires these people?

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