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04:02
@JerryCoffin but I also develop on windows and andriod platforms
and linux
@User17 I think I can say with reasonable certainty that when I (first) joined MSDN, no link to SO was attached. :-)
@User17 I guess that has to be allowed as at least mitigating your sin. :-)
@JerryCoffin When I joined window's phone developer program, I did. But I guess it is because it's a new program setup around the same time as SO
@User17 I suppose it would help if SO existed at the time, now wouldn't it?
04:19
They added more things to the humble bundle.
Neat.
Must resist, I have too many games anyway
How can anyone resist these games?
When I looked earlier today they were still around $4.70 to unlock everything
I had already picked it up at that point
So many.
I have The top row (except LOTR) and the 3 games on the left of the bottom row, and I couldn't care less about the skins pack
04:23
@JerryCoffin if you think about it, develop on Android system is not too much different from developing on Linux system conceptually - both are about developing on open source linux based systems :p
@User17 It is and it isn't. Yes, Android is basically a framework running on top of a Linux kernel. But also, Android is heavily oriented toward Java...
just like linux is heavily oriented towards C
@User17 Not even close to similar, IMO. It's easy to avoid C on Linux to exactly the degree you want to. Using anything else on Android adds considerable difficulty, and trying to avoid Java completely adds exponentially more pain.
google is a java fan, just like microsoft overly fond of C# ... kernels are written in C (and assembly) & websites are made of PHP(and likes)
Nobody likes C++ :'(
Gamedevs like C++
04:35
@User17 Everybody uses C++ themselves (e.g., to write Java, C#, etc., VMs) but tries to discourage their customers from doing so. Some parts of the Windows kernel pretty clearly do use at least some C++ features.
04:59
I made gifs for showing off my plugin
05:11
Little help?
3
Q: compliant variable length struct in C++

Glenn TeitelbaumIn standard C you can end a struct with an array of size 0 and then over allocate it to add a variable length dimension to the array: struct var { int a; int b[0]; } struct var * x=malloc(sizeof(var+27*sizeof(int))); How can you do that in C++ in a standard (portable) way? It is okay ...

Too much ignorance going on there… but it's a good question.
@Potatoswatter on this one I feel like you misunderstood what's going on, it looks well defined to me
wait, no, I misunderstood, that's lunacy
@MooingDuck No, memory must be allocated for the entire object. You can't allocate memory for only a few members. Even if the implementation doesn't care that a subobject doesn't exist, there could be padding at the end.
@MooingDuck Right, hence me here calling in the cavalry :)
@Potatoswatter Before my boss started working at my company, ~8-10 years ago, none of the employees used the STD containers. We have production code to this day where the dev made an array[10000] so that he could have "enough" space to not worry about reaching the end of the array.
@caps To be fair, 8-10 years ago standardization was only taking hold and standard libraries commonly had simply awful bugs.
@Potatoswatter That code still made me wince when I first saw it and realized what it was.
05:26
@caps Hopefully the company has no policies against fixing that sort of thing. That's really the critical part.
@Potatoswatter Not necessarily. There's just usually other stuff to be done. I've put it on my own to-do-list, though, and as a relatively new guy I'm not as enmeshed in other projects to keep me constantly busy.
The tough thing is, I'm pretty sure it's only one component out of tens or hundreds that should be rewritten.
And it's a sizeable component (~14k loc, including the .h)
8-10 years ago, prevalent standard were C++98 & C++03
To clarify, it took her several years after she started there to convince them to start using vectors and iterators instead of arrays.
05:42
@caps Yes. Depending on the platform, and assuming they weren't riding the bleeding edge of the toolchain, they probably had good (or at least fair) reason because the std::vector implementation likely had some bugs.
@Potatoswatter That's really informative, thanks.
depends on what you want to do, sometimes there is no reason why people should move away from arrays to vectors when the code is working perfectly
@caps Of course I don't have any specifics :P but every project decides what risks to accept. Compiler development these days tends to have a better review process so risks are on the whole less.
@Potatoswatter I wasn't being sarcastic, that really is enlightening.
I don't remember what version of Builder they were using at the time.
But I wouldn't describe us as cutting edge.
Getting our code base to work correctly when we switched from Builder 2009 to XE4 this Summer took weeks.
And we're still not using C++11.
If the migration process within Borland is so arduous, I suppose it must be worse to switch to one of the "big three"… surely they considered it?
05:50
If they are using Borland, they probably have GUI stuff to compile too. A bit hard to convert to other major compilers
@Potatoswatter I honestly don't know if they considered it, because...
@User17 Yes, we use a lot of their GUI components.
Ugh. I hate Doxygen.
06:06
@Potatoswatter I only saw one downvote-worthy item
and I posted an answer
@MooingDuck Yeah… I was going to upvote you but I don't like the minus-one business :P I should probably upboat anyway
well, it's past my bedtime
currently parsing this :'(
@User17 use a parser library
06:12
already do ... still painful
It's minified. Any decent doc would list how it looks like regularly. :s
Pre-C++11, is map::find the only way to access an element of a const map (other than iterators)?
I don't follow. std::map::find returns an iterator.
@Rapptz Yes. I meant other than iterating over the entire map with your own loop.
Yes, find is the only way.
I forgot, but in C++11 you have at
06:21
@Rapptz Yeah, that's what I was thinking of.
find(key)->second works fine, it seems
@caps except for if the key isn't found
@MooingDuck then what happens?
undefined behaviour
@caps undefined behavior
wahnderful
06:22
in practice, probably a null dereference -> pagefault
no wait, nevermind, that can't happen, it can't be null.
you're thinking random access
it'd dereference something as an element, probably part of the map itself
@Rapptz I was thinking the end iterator would contain a null value inside, but that can't happen with any bidirectional iterators
well dereferencing the end iterator on a vector would give you a segfault I think
so I want if find(key) != end {...}
?
yes
06:24
@Rapptz probably not. it would point one past the end, which is process allocated memory 99% of the time
segfaults only happen when you access addresses not allocated to your process.
anyway, bedtime was half an hour ago, so I'm off.
see ya
@MooingDuck Thanks for the tips and conversation!
@caps There's also lower_bound, upper_bound, equal_range
@MooingDuck It can happen if the map is empty, but I'm being asinine.
@Potatoswatter how would that work with strings and their derivatives?
@caps You mean a map with std::string keys? Those functions are just based on the lexical ordering of strings, or whatever the map comparison is.
06:33
I've generally never used lower_bound, upper_bound etc on std::string
@Potatoswatter map<AnsiString, double>
I think AnsiString is a Builder implementation.
@caps No idea about that. If it supports the < operator with value semantics, then the map will probably be sorted lexically a.k.a. alphabetically, and that defines the behavior of lower_bound etc.
@Rapptz I have, although it was a sorted array not a map.
Do you have any experience with documenting metafunctions with doxygen?
@Rapptz No, let me know if someone writes a blog article about it :P
hm?
06:37
That reminds me of a data structure I've contemplated for a while. We all know a vector is nice because of contiguity, but for something like a set insertions that maintain order are slow because you need linear shuffling to make room for a new element.
Are you contemplating about boost::flat_set?
@Rapptz An interface that spans metafunctions and functions often looks ugly in Doxygen, at least considering Eigen. Different kinds of things get grouped together even if part of the same sub-interface, and metafunctions are technically considered class templates, so they will get jumbled in with the classes. Yuck.
@Potatoswatter Yeah this is my issue ._. it's driving me bonkers.
the worst part is it's giving me their inheritance diagram lol
At least I can turn that off
What about if, instead, you maintain a sorted and an un-sorted portion. When you add a new item, you just tack it onto the end of the un-sorted portion. You limit the size of that, however, to (roughly) the log of the size of the sorted part. When it reaches that limit, you sort those, then do the shuffling necessary to put all of those into place in the sorted part. Then you start over with a new un-sorted chunk.
@Rapptz Maybe -- I should probably look at it (and how it works).
I don't think they use your idea though.
06:42
@Rapptz No, it doesn't look like it. The idea would be to give not only fast lookup, but also (fairly) fast insertion.
@JerryCoffin Nice, but it only cuts the cost of the linear insertions by a factor of log(N), and O(N/log(N)) is still very close to O(N)
0
Q: Human Biology- Human eyes changing color?

Lynda GlovenCan human eyes change color, or is it just different types of light reflecting in their eyes? I am dating someone whose eyes are sometimes very blue, but sometimes green. I also have a friend whose eyes change from brown to green.

@Mysticial Ah hey. My eyes change colour too.
mr5
mr5
Hello everyone!
Still for an array of 256 items that's an 8x potential speedup so it could be worth it.
06:44
mr5
mr5
I badly need a help here to compose a "proper and very specific question" about this post stackoverflow.com/questions/19968624/…
@Mysticial lol I was hoping someone would answer. The question is pretty easy
@Potatoswatter Depends heavily on usage though. Especially for a lot of persistent types of structures, you often only modify a fairly small percentage of items in any given execution -- small enough that inserting new items could often be left until you're streaming the data back to disk, so you wouldn't have to do any shuffling at all.
mr5
mr5
Hey Englishmen!
@mr5 I suspect most of our Englishmen are currently asleep, with the possible exception of the Puppy, who just wishes he could sleep.
06:48
@mr5 You need us to help you compose a specific question?
Do you not know what your own specific question is?
mr5
mr5
Ahmm I have difficulties at explaining a very specific thing in english
So can you check out my post and hopefully you get my point
@mr5 Not at all.
mr5
mr5
I don't understand :(
Aww
fuck
I can't take off the dumb "Inherits from X" text doxygen produces
that's retarded
@mr5 I don't either. I looked at your post. I don't understand your question. Is it the very last paragraph?
06:51
@mr5 The basic problem is that you've described some of how you think you want to solve a problem, but you haven't described the problem you want to solve or what you really want to accomplish. It's hard to advise about how to do something with no clue of what you really want to do.
mr5
mr5
Please some one take a time to click in the link I send in this chat and switch the tab of their beautiful browsers to newly opened link w/c I have sent..
@caps Yup.. Can you interpret what I really what to explain there?
@JerryCoffin All I just want to do is to imitate some very basic rounded rectangles of HTML
@mr5 Try to minimize statements like "I can't really figure this out-out of my dumb head" and "I don't like to use any other libraries except mine." which add nothing or add unnecessary restrictions.
mr5
mr5
@Potatoswatter should I removed it then from the post?
@mr5 That doesn't answer much. What specific capabilities/features do you want to support?
@mr5 I think those sentences only got it closed faster, although since you don't have a specific answerable question, it's gonna get closed anyway.
mr5
mr5
06:57
@JerryCoffin html's rectangle attributes like: (x, y, width, height, border-sides(top, right, bottom, left), corner-radii??
@mr5 One important thing to consider when writing a good question in Stack Overflow is if users can have the time to answer it. If it's too long and maybe overly broad then very few users would be willing to spare the time to answer. If it's considerably short (users can stand reading the whole of it), and points to specific problems, then it's very likely that you'll get a good answer (and some upvotes, I'm sure). So, does your question fit the latter or the former?
… even if you gave a specific feature set, it's not like a volunteer is going to step forward and write it, unless it's either < 50 LOC or an inherently interesting problem.
@mr5 I can tell you want some kind of formula related to those keywords. Maybe if I knew more about the myriad of keywords for HTML rectangles I could make sense of it, but I Can't.
@mr5 The problem is "like." The list goes on and the semantic interactions between the properties are nontrivial.
man.
> Inherits is_default_constructible< Bare< T > >.
I didn't need this Doxygen. :(
07:01
Welp. It's about midnight here. I think I'm going to go sleep a while. C you all later.
Bye
@JerryCoffin Good night.
mr5
mr5
Okay, ahhm...Do you think I'm able to attain those features in the shuffled rectangles I construct. In my code, I'm just guessing w/c value to put and not to retain their specific position.
Weird coincidence that my text editor's background is the same as this page so it looks pseudo-transparent in the gifs.
mr5
mr5
Please excuse my poor English for this is not my native language and I think I'm telling you things too broad to answer
07:04
@mr5 I see why...
@Rapptz Damn. I wish other docs also have those nice gifs.
mr5
mr5
@Potatoswatter I think that my question could be answered not by codes only but by some kind of simple formula or an abstract idea or other explanatory statements w/c only you guys can do.
@mr5 The problem is all the "or"s there. If you are working on an implementation, you must be stuck at only one of those things. If you haven't started working yet, you don't belong on SO.
@JerryCoffin Nites
mr5
mr5
@Potatoswatter I have done already several lines of codes, you can see the output in the screenshots I posted. I didn't post any code because I think that others would ask for a very specific line of code w/c I am stuck with.
@mr5 You thought they would ask for specific code, so you didn't post any specific code?
@mr5 It sounds like you aren't stuck but simply want teammates. SO is not a collaborative development site.
07:17
@mr5 Giving more tolerance on abstract questions and abstract answers would leave users wanting for a more concrete one. It's much better to have a concrete question/answer which demonstrates abstract concepts. Like an answer to a "bug in my code" question. A good answer will show the fixed code (concrete part) while giving advices on best practices or on common reasons why those kind of bugs show (the more abstract part).
mr5
mr5
@Potatoswatter I'm not asking for teammates or so whatever. It's just for the sake of fun and learning. (I hope I don't deliver my statements offensive)
@mr5 He's simply saying that you must also do your part.
You're both from Philippines.
Users are here to answer specific, well-defined problems. Not broad ones, like yours.
14 mins ago, by Mark Garcia
@mr5 I see why...
:P
Wait. Also @Potatoswatter.
Filipino party time! Except I'm an American expat.
07:22
I know some others who come in here, though they don't often.
@mr5 There have been some genuinely offensive folks in these hallowed chatwindows, so worry not.
moaning
@sehe ?
he's moaning in the morning
StackOverflow isn't going to hold a grudge over a general question either. Think of it this way: the community is unable to answer the question because individuals reading it just can't find single the question mark that defines an answer.
07:24
@Potatoswatter How did the frozen pizzas go ... was it fun eating frozen pizza in strong wind?
mr5
mr5
@Rapptz I think even If I state it in our language it will not help me to explain it at a specific level question
@User17 There was no storm here. Pizza all gone.
mr5
mr5
@Potatoswatter Just a question not related my purpose here, how do you find strayed Filipino here in SO? :)
@Rapptz Gifs? How is that useful? Except for making it near impossible to actually look at the information? /cc @MarkGarcia
> "Oh, I see - wait!
fuck, it's gone;
Ok, so it was - Noooo! Stop scrolling, morons!
Ah, well, it looks all pretty. And a bit commenty.
Mmm. I'll just read the docs instead.

--- Oh... Wait"
@sehe Showcasing
07:28
@Rapptz It's all static, right. What's the point of showing how an editor looks?
@mr5 Stray? If you like programming then this is where you belong… What is your current mode of education?
@sehe It's to show how the plugin works, not how the editor looks. It's meant to compliment the text.
mr5
mr5
@All please help to write a specific question about that. I would give anything to know.
@Rapptz Ah. Wait. Is your project a plugin? I thought it was the doc generator
My bad. Still hate the gifs, but I see why you use them then (I've used gifs in for largely the same reason)
it's a plugin that generates documentation
07:30
@Rapptz Oh god. Don't let the Robot see this
@sehe It looks nice! Why should I complain? :)
@MarkGarcia I like to read stuff, bouncy stuff is not readable. It's probably a limitation of my brain.
mr5
mr5
@Potatoswatter what does stray really mean? I hope I didn't misunderstood its definition. I don't know about modes of education?
FWIW I'm not usually a fan of gifs usually either but the text alone doesn't really show much.
@Rapptz Then, just show the cases (copy/pastable, deliciously static text that honours the CSS) and show 1 gif that shows the dynamics :)
Q: Why did you edit a post that had been deleted for several years? A: It contained the word "Irregardless"
@mr5 You mean stray as in "napadaan"?
@MarkGarcia It was much more fun once I started hurling the ball to the glass wall to scare them
mr5
mr5
@MarkGarcia Opo :) But I think that term is not fitted to the members with a rep > 100?
@mr5 "Stray" means "in the wrong place." And "mode" is kind, type, means, fashion. It sounds like you may be educating yourself from scratch? Congratulations if so, and don't worry about politeness.
07:41
@mr5 There are probably many, though I'm pretty sure only a few of them have set their addresses to the country, so it may be hard to know they are Filipinos.
(Sounds like "napadaan" means something more like "just visiting." Feel free to hang out here as you like.)
mr5
mr5
@Potatoswatter Yes I do know meaning of mode but I don't know terms related to modes of education :) I think I can consider my mode as slightly-scratch? Because in our school, they only taught how to do arithmetics in programming they I go slightly further beyond from them and away from them :)
@Potatoswatter Yep. whispers And also the um...
@mr5 Yes, it's better not to rely entirely on one's teachers when in doubt.
yikes.
At least this tutorial doesn't seem so bad.
07:47
> I am flagging this comment as rude or offensive
@Rapptz Hmm, they refer to a declaration as an expression…
mr5
mr5
08:07
Thank you guys(@MarkGarcia, @Potatoswatter, @JerryCoffin, @caps) for the effort discussing my faulty question here. I really appreciate your effort. I now realized how broad it was. Maybe I should put much effort again to figure it out myself. This would consume my whole day again thinking too much about it, and I won't get any progress in the thing I am doing unless I fixed it already. I hope I see some posts similar to mine.
3
@mr5 Don't worry about figuring out how to ask. Just write code until you're stuck on a technical point and the SO appropriate question will come to you :) . In any case the pictures in your question indicate you're making some kind of progress.
JBL
JBL
Hi in there.
@mr5 No problem. :)
@Rapptz VTCed, but Pileborg's answer is also good (and more specific to the problem IMO).
2
A: Split a c++ string without boost and not on whitespace

RobᵩConsider using using a facet that specifies x and = as whitespace characters: #include <locale> #include <iostream> #include <sstream> struct punct_ctype : std::ctype<char> { punct_ctype() : std::ctype<char>(get_table()) {} static mask const* get_table() { static mask rc[table_size]; ...

TIL
user1804599
08:14
Hello. :)
Oh my God, my lesbian friend came out in the same day that my other one did ;_;
I still don't get how that code works.
user1804599
Why not?
Now I do.
user1804599
It specifies that ' ' , '\n', 'x' and '=' are whitespace.
08:20
Apparently ctype<T> and ctype<char> have different constructors.
@rightfold Yeah I get that part.
I just didn't know how he constructed it.
user1804599
He passes in a table.
user1804599
> = 0 eww
user1804599
> Overload 7 is typically called with its second argument, f, obtained directly from a new-expression: the locale is responsible for calling the matching delete from its own destructor.
user1804599
08:24
Ewww wtf.
@Rapptz Now I get it...
This is pretty neato.
@MarkGarcia You should upvote since it taught you something too :P (I did)
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's wrong with it? it's not like they take your money until the end
@Rapptz The prideful in me says no. It says no! :P
@CatPlusPlus hmm, how would you manage people wanting to update their own sections? Why not just a site that can link to our project sites, sort of like a webring of old? (or what ever you called them). Some sort of 'branding' that we can all use.
08:29
But seriously, the answer's a good change from the Boost solutions.
hey gang
Xeo
Xeo
08:47
Mornin
09:01
hello
> No we are not - Mr.Joke
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton Pah, your lambda answer stole my code from yesterday. :)
got a quick question - Does explicit keyword ONLY prevents from using a ctor to implicit conversions or also prevents from every implicit uses of that ctor?
@Xeo Did you void() as well?
@ScottW I thought you like to hold it down?
@EtiennedeMartel lol!
GCC's std::string code is interesting
apparently they don't dynamically allocate memory if the size of the string is less than 128 characters.
How fortuitous, I am abusing unary plus right now to debug things.
Xeo
Xeo
@Rapptz Well, they also have a ref-counted implementation, so they're allocating memory anyways
@Xeo That's if the size is > 128
Xeo
Xeo
wat
09:09
Unless I'm misreading
user1804599
Linky?
Xeo
Xeo
@Rapptz How could that work, if sizeof(std::string) == 8?
@Xeo Is that related to copy on write?
@rightfold I'm reading the source from <bits/basic_string.tcc> because I want to see how something works. So.. no link. I don't know how to.
Xeo
Xeo
@MarkGarcia ye
09:11
I'm probably misreading.
user1804599
Ah, locally.
user1804599
@Xeo cloud storage!
lol
¬_¬ I think I might be going down a slipery slope here
thinking of writing Java code that will let me do something like CollectionSearcher.search(myCollection, where("a field", EQUALS, "the value))
GNU style is so bad.
09:16
but I am sure that is both far too over the top generic and probably an already solved problem
this is hands down the worst coding style ever
Indenting with 2, but setting tabstops at 8 boggles my mind.
user1804599
@Rapptz you are.
user1804599
The array is a local array, not a data member.
@Rapptz :set ts=8 and it's not so bad to read.
09:17
@LucDanton Is that C++?
If you close your eyes and wish for it, then it is.
lol
what does that do? I don't use vim
@Rapptz Tab characters take 8 columns.
Ah.
09:19
Otherwise you may see some odd things.
Why would they mix space indents and tabs?
they're weird
Probably convenience. Surely their IDEs not that fit to do indenting for them. :P
I don't get why they mix spaces with tabs
user1804599
Because they are morons.
JBL
JBL
09:24
My eyes, they bleed.
@Rapptz Six spaces...?
Indent is 2 :v
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah (the tabs are originally 2 each but I set them to 8 per Luc's suggestion)
void
lol()
{
  return "haha";
}
@thecoshman What do you mean "until the end"? They get your money when the fund-raising pre-order period ends.
09:26
what's this preorder funding thing
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah... that is what I mean...
Your browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 3,599,177 tested so far.

Currently, we estimate that your browser has a fingerprint that conveys at least 21.78 bits of identifying information.
They're on to me!
one in 3,599,180 for me...
Same 21.78 bits for me.
09:32
I'd say my home computer is worse :P
Apparently it's the installed fonts that mostly fudge the 'uniqueness' for me.
Oh, the FAQ is interesting.
user1804599
> Your browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 3,599,215 tested so far.
@MarkGarcia huh, seems kind of bogus'ey. I get the same regardless of which browser I use, and whether or not it has plugins installed
My results changed when I disabled cookies and javascript
blocking JS helps a bit
20.78 when using private window. Guess I'll use it for other than... you know what I mean.
:P
09:43
Runaway errors due to missing '>' :v
Xeo
Xeo
Btw @Luc, I've read through the introduction of the paper you linked me. After they went on with System F n shit they kinda lost me, though. :/
CPOs, or even before that?
Unlike tuple, pair is {}-constructible, right?
holy shit, it looks like everything works with the changes I made
what is this madness
Xeo
Xeo
09:54
@R.MartinhoFernandes 2-tuple is also {}-constructible
@Xeo Tis not because explicit.
It is only tuple<thinga, majig>{}-constructible.
Xeo
Xeo
ISTR them special-casing it. Maybe not.
Or maybe they were considering to special-case the two-arg constructor. Meh.
On the train, low on battery again. Need this 5% battery to last 25 mins
mr5
mr5
Hey @MarkGarcia it's me again. Came back here for another question :)
Xeo
Xeo
09:57
Wait, wha?
, just FYI
@User17 go offline and turn down screen brightness?
@mr5 I forgot, but you might (should, actually) want to read this first. ;)
but offline is no fun :p
also 1 month old laptop, full battery lasts as long as 7 hours.
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton Before that, I think
> I need to wrap a string vector from an unmanaged C++ library, and to do so I have to convert a vector<string> to a char***.
Wat?
Xeo
Xeo
09:59
I'm kinda feeling overwhelmed by all the unfamiliar syntax that doesn't quite want to sink in

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