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16:00
it wasn't VERY old
@CatPlusPlus wow, you have a fighter plane for caps lock!
@BartekBanachewicz Why?
I don't think that's his problem.
but I don't see it on the transcript for the current page and it was starred but bumped off the star list
ohh hell i'll find it
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because it's easier than coming up with arguments
@R.MartinhoFernandes I didn't. I observed that it appears so.
16:00
@CatPlusPlus I like to hear your opinion, as long as you keep it civilized and don't try to nearly insult me for even trying to disagree or state I'm undecided yet
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I have to agree with Cat here - why can't you see that exactly what he listed makes writing good code hard?
@rlemon Don't bother. Fight boredom with something else.
@sehe your observation is not very straight
@CatPlusPlus All the more likely that you made it malfunction. I mean, if you had just let it be :|
@R.MartinhoFernandes well it is that or defend js's honor
16:01
@thecoshman oblique, is the word. Indeed, it's more like italic
@Xeo I'm still undecided whether scoping is totally fucked up or actually useful
@BartekBanachewicz unusual
@sehe don't spoil a good pun ¬_¬
@BartekBanachewicz It's very useful. Even js has it!
@rlemon Are you on a phone?
16:01
I can be
("No, I'm on a train")
do you guys hold the same opinion on Lisp?
@rlemon if I conclude it's fucked up it doesn't matter.
@FlorianMargaine nobody writes in Lisp.
16:02
We never hold the same opinion.
No fun.
whereas many programmers are forced to use JS
meh, I'll just hide my lisp repos.
@FlorianMargaine Baskets. Don't put everyone in one.
2
that said, JS scoping rules are the same as Lisp's
@FlorianMargaine ¬_¬ people tend to hold too many opinions
16:03
@FlorianMargaine Except they're not. Well, lisps are much more consistent
@FlorianMargaine And that'd matter, because...?
@FlorianMargaine lol, so that's what people mean when the say JS got inspiration from Lisp?
Ell
Ell
Baskets. To put me in one you'd have to dice me
"My car has the same color as my pen, which matters because..."
16:03
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, lexical scope
@FlorianMargaine What you meant, likely, is that you can emulate encapsulation of data using closures - much like in a lisp
Not sure why, but that sounds hilarious.
@FlorianMargaine Lua has lexical scope too yet it's not as fucked up
That's hardly the defining characteristic. "WAT" seems more defining
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Barkets. Don't put everyone in one.
5
16:04
@sehe that's type system and it's fucking terrible and everyone knows that
@sehe I just meant that both JS and Lisp use lexical scope. "Bounds" are done in a different way (function for JS + with/trycatch, function + let in lisp), but it's basically the same system
Is the lounge-chat project dead or something?
@Jefffrey you can always contribute, it's opensourced
@BartekBanachewicz never tried lua, sorry.
16:05
@BartekBanachewicz IOW, yes, it's dead.
@Jefffrey it's a lounge project :P
I should
but I only write my conf files in it ~~
Lua is Ponies. Haskell is Rainbows.
Prolog > Is the Lounge ... project dead?
true.
And here I thought I was free from people trying to push Lisp as a PERFECT THING
16:06
@R.MartinhoFernandes you never said last time I asked, who one the fight with your wallet
@CatPlusPlus NEVER
Fuck your Lisp, Scheme is much better anyway
@thecoshman Still not over. I still have the tab open.
(And still not relevant to JS)
@FlorianMargaine You just mean that you can program in both? Javascript is not similar to lisp. Maybe in the sense that javascript lacks facilities commonly found in mainstream OO/imperative languages?
16:06
Scheme is for kids.
@CatPlusPlus s/PERFECT // (lets me sleep at night)
JavaScript is awesome!
:grabs shield and waits to fight back pitchforks:
This is sad
It kinda is
@sehe JavaScript and Lisp are similar in their dissimilarity to other popular programming languages!
16:07
@Xeo Okay--I guess I shouldn't have tried to comment on it, considering that my direct experience with flagging is next to nonexistent.
I cannot think of a situation where you would have a shield to defend against pitchforks.
@R.MartinhoFernandes sounds about right
@R.MartinhoFernandes cough up scrooge... or if could I tempt you into splitting a contribution with me?
@sehe what are you talking about?
@thecoshman How would the logistics of that go?
16:07
@FlorianMargaine proper typing maybe
@BartekBanachewicz Lisp has proper typing
@Jefffrey I don't have time or will, nobody else seems to have either
Xeo
Xeo
@thecoshman Wait, what?
@FlorianMargaine javascript, on the other hand, has not.
but is it made of wood?
16:08
@R.MartinhoFernandes as I have already paid, you send me some extra money, I contribute that, I get sent the goodies and post it onto you
I really need that Venn diagram
@thecoshman I see. :/
@Xeo ask robot for the link
Welp, I should be getting stuff done.
@FlorianMargaine I'm talking about the rather obvious fact that ECMAScript is not similar to lisp.
One particular "conundrum" (which isn't one) is solved in a way that wouldn't take Lispers long to devise. Meh
16:09
@thecoshman Tis open at home, not here.
@CatPlusPlus Scheme is (a) Lisp.
@R.MartinhoFernandes tab sync?
@sehe sorry but... it is
@JerryCoffin Naming details
Ell
Ell
@FlorianMargaine wut?
16:09
@FlorianMargaine except it's not
Ell
Ell
How? o.O
@FlorianMargaine Wow. Convincing argument.
@FlorianMargaine, you have a shitload of javascript repos
@thecoshman I don't like that shit.
now let's keep saying "it is/it is not", and not throw out any reason.
16:09
or just use that memory thing and when you et home send Xeo a link
Xeo
Xeo
@thecoshman Can I find out what that is all about without a link?
@sehe just like yours.
Because in the eyes of Lispers everything is derived from Lisp and only Lisp needs to exist
@FlorianMargaine I supplied an argument. You didn't. Your move
@thecoshman If I could host my sync server, I might do it. Otherwise, fuck it.
16:10
@FlorianMargaine for one, Lisp is a functional language and JS is not. Which matters way more than your "scope" thingy,
@Xeo kickstarter for a very awesome looking set up Cthuhluh themed cards
@CatPlusPlus sounds a lot like C-ers
@sehe your argument? "it's not the same"? I don't call that an argument...
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... hmm... why can't we?
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz lisp is functional?
16:10
Lisp is multiparadigm
@BartekBanachewicz Lol. Lisp is a multi paradigm language. It's imperative or functional or object.
@FlorianMargaine I think it's fair to put the burden on the one claiming similarity. Until then, Occam's razor can account for the other side.
CLOS is nice, but not worth literally everything else about CL
Also fuck dynamic typing
@thecoshman What do you use?
16:11
@ScottW Great. I'm glad to get you hungry.
@Xeo no, this one is still open, only a few days old
@FlorianMargaine FU. Just say if you cannot be bothered to read my stuff. Remember when you facetiously said "what are you talking about?". That was already a cheap move, but I took the time to boil my previous arguments down to the summary. Now you go complain about my lack of arguments in my summary? Wow. Great technique.
At least in CL function signatures actually mean something
@R.MartinhoFernandes Chrome/Google (yeah, I'm a data slut, so what)
@thecoshman Anyway, if I do it, I can take part in on me own. Thanks, anyway.
16:12
@R.MartinhoFernandes I said the similarities: lexical scoping. Not many other languages implement it.
And where's the tab sync stuff?
@R.MartinhoFernandes just hurry and pay :P
Google's servers? Fuck Google.
Xeo
Xeo
@thecoshman Hm, I found one that ended on Nov 3rd.
@R.MartinhoFernandes new tab => lower right corner -> 'other devices'
@Xeo link...
Xeo
Xeo
16:13
Oh wait, that looks better
@sehe I'm trying to go back on the history to find your argument, all I can find is this:
6 mins ago, by sehe
@FlorianMargaine You just mean that you can program in both? Javascript is not similar to lisp. Maybe in the sense that javascript lacks facilities commonly found in mainstream OO/imperative languages?
which still doesn't say anything
@Xeo bingo!
@thecoshman Hmm, that still puts the shit on Google's infrastructure. Fuck them.
16:13
@FlorianMargaine What
Majority of languages implement lexical scoping :/
In fact, a great many languages have lexical scopes.
@FlorianMargaine Wow, that's quite poor, to be honest.
today, yes. 5 years ago?
Who the fuck cares
@R.MartinhoFernandes ¬_¬ and who hosts your email? where do you go to watch videos? how do you search the internet?
(but I do agree with you :P)
16:14
@FlorianMargaine well
JAVASCRIPT IS SIMILAR TO C++
@CatPlusPlus is faster too
it has braces
@thecoshman Slippery slope, much? (I'm working out a plan to get rid of the e-mail crap)
JavaScript is similar to machine code, too!
16:14
@ScottW Why do you say that?
but yeah, today every language and its sister has implemented pretty much everything so the differences are not much between high level languages
@CatPlusPlus what would it involve?
They both use byte 0x32
@BartekBanachewicz well, stop yourself at the syntax. See you...
@FlorianMargaine What the fuck are you talking about
16:15
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was thinking of hosting my own, our using some other doofer and have @thecoshman.com :D
@FlorianMargaine Essentially all languages have used lexical scoping for well over a decade now. Some forms of Lisp used to use dynamic scoping, but the only way to find it any more involves software archaeology.
Entropy isn't what it used to be.
@JerryCoffin I think CL still does
@CatPlusPlus PHP/C#/C++ implementing closures in the last few years? Lambdas implemented everywhere?
@FlorianMargaine WHO THE FUCK CARES
How is that relevant to ANYTHING
16:15
@FlorianMargaine Yup that and this. If you argue that this one similarity makes the languages essentially related... Well.
@CatPlusPlus Nope. CL specifies lexical scoping too.
@R.MartinhoFernandes but yes, it is a greasy incline for sure
@JerryCoffin Common Lisp still does dynamic scoping on some cases
@CatPlusPlus ... to the whole discussion? People asked why Lisp and JS were similar.
@FlorianMargaine excuse me?
16:16
And your example is something that's implemented in literally almost every language?
Gj
@sehe ah, my bad, didn't see this one.
I can take any two languages and say they're similar
Both Lisp and JS can run code thus they are similar.
Hurray for USEFUL COMPARISONS
this whole discussion just sucks anyway
16:17
You started it
And can't defend it for shit
@FlorianMargaine I suppose it doesn't surprise me that it does it for a handful of obscure cases, but I'm pretty sure they must be fairly obscure. For most normal code, it's just basic lexical scoping.
@JerryCoffin yup, it's pretty obscure
@ScottW Speak for yourself. I'm much more sour than bitter. :-)
WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE?
16:18
Lispers attack
And it doesn't make sense, as usual
@CatPlusPlus woohoo
@TonyTheLion No fucking, unfortunately.
Woah I just realised something
Xeo
Xeo
@thecoshman Hm, 82euro for the collector's edition
Lispers tend to be as obnoxious about Lisp as MLP fans are about ponies
6
16:19
@ScottW Hmm, dunno. People in meatspace tell me the opposite, to be honest. :S
@ScottW I'm not bitter, I just hate programming and everything else too. :P
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because you let out all your bitterness in cyberspace, d'uh! :P
@JerryCoffin Damnit
@FlorianMargaine because you can't provide any meaningful arguments?
in JavaScript, 20 secs ago, by Florian Margaine
C++ lounge is really a bunch of assholes
AHAAHAHAAHAHA
@BartekBanachewicz no, because I did, and all I get is a sucky discussion :)
16:20
:cripes:
@BartekBanachewicz That's new to me.
@TonyTheLion People have malfunctioning F13 keys
@FlorianMargaine note how like 5 people is telling you that you did not.
and personal attacks, so I'm just leaving :)
I thought we were a friendly bunch
16:20
I think that I don't care
@FlorianMargaine no, we merely said your comparison sucks. It's not personal.
@CatPlusPlus I'm pretty sure that you don't care
@thecoshman idk, I don't like Kickstarter's pre-order bullshit.
I hate this entire fucking industry
@FlorianMargaine Wait what.
"C++ lounge is really a bunch of assholes" ... "and personal attacks, so I'm just leaving :)"?
13
16:21
@FlorianMargaine I hope I didn't come across as attacking you personally. I certainly didn't mean to.
@R.MartinhoFernandes That wasn't an attack! That was a stab in the back :)
@TonyTheLion any sufficiently advanced friendly bunch is indistinguishable from a bunch of assholes, I guess? :)
@sehe nah, you were okay.
in JavaScript, 2 mins ago, by rlemon
I just see all of this as the "It wasn't what I expected it to be so it is bad" argument.
@melak47 Nice one
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes ?
16:22
To be honest, "C++ lounge is really a bunch of assholes" is not a personal attack. It's too sweeping to be personal.
:cripes:
So yeah, you're in the clear @Florian.
@TonyTheLion We're like Unix. It's user-friendly--but choosy about who it considers friends.
Why people are so bad at this
Why
why
@Xeo It's essentially a pre-order system, for products that don't exist yet.
16:23
nipple salads
why
why
@ScottW oh baby, I love you as you are.
salads
ssaadssdaasd
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes So pre-pre-order?
pples
ponies
Xeo
Xeo
16:23
Oh gawd, we lost Cat
I have turned into an asshole since joining the lounge
I laugh at people's code, what an asshole thing to do
@R.MartinhoFernandes only if you're lucky - if you're unlucky, you don't even get a product (should it actually manifest) :)
@CatPlusPlus <3
oh look
love
@thecoshman Well, we'd put our stuff under common domain and stuff
16:26
@R.MartinhoFernandes I've always wondered how much obligation somebody has after going on kickstarter and saying they're going to start a project. "Hi, I'm going to do something awesome, give me money." [Two months later]: "Oops, didn't work at all. Thanks for the retirement fund though."
@ScottW You're a goon and you don't even know it
Kickstarter - Schrödinger's pre-order system?
@JerryCoffin There's literally no obligation
@CatPlusPlus it's kinda hard
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus Do they get their money back?
16:30
@Ell No
You only get money back if the goal isn't met
Ell
Ell
Man. That's crazy
@CatPlusPlus Hmm...I suppose it does indicate how much of an asshole I am that my immediate reaction is to think of things like that, instead of how awesome it could be. Given the number of times things seem to have worked out, I guess I really am being excessively cynical.
Well, I think they just don't charge you then
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm reading your article rule of zero, but I don't think I've seen the syntax you use for initializing members. Is that a new C++11 feature?
@JerryCoffin I thought the same :hfive: and there are plenty of scams and shit there
16:31
@Venemo Yes. All the usages in that article are equivalent to the same thing with ()
IndieGoGo is even worse, because they have "flexible funding" mode, where the campaign starter gets the money even if they don't reach the goal
@ScottW Later, asshole. :-)
Basically never pay for Kickstarter unless it's extremely disposable money and/or the OP is someone known to be trustworthy
@R.MartinhoFernandes how about this line?
handle { ::LoadLibrary(name.c_str()), &::FreeLibrary }
when is &::FreeLibrary called in this case?
16:34
Google's multiple account system is so bad
fuck my cough is getting really painful and frequent
@CatPlusPlus My money is always extremely disposable because I have too much of it.
And no you can't have some of it.
I'll have you know that I'm a professional money disposer
posted on November 13, 2013 by Herb Sutter

As part of the VS 2013 launch today, in a few hours I will be joining Tarek Madkour and Ale Contenti on camera for about half an hour to answer questions about VC++2013. Tarek and Ale are two of the three-manager triad who run our VC++ team. Visual C++ in 2013 and Beyond with Charles […]

@Venemo Only later on. It's just a function pointer there. The unique_ptr invokes it upon destruction.
16:40
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah I see, so those two things are parameters for the unique_ptr constructor, right?
Great
You've just gained a follower for the rule of zero :)
It's obvious in retrospect, yet people are bad at it
no wonder people are bad at it, this kind of thinking is not taught at school
16:44
Education is shit
in JavaScript, 24 secs ago, by Florian Margaine
@BartekBanachewicz the difference between haskell and JS, also: 5 minutes to get something done in JS, 1 hour to get something done in haskell. And you know it's true, don't deny it.
Good.
I'd have hated if you just went throwing bills around.
So unprofessional
@CatPlusPlus MOAR ranting please
@Jefffrey Lol. I guess we should let bananaman fight this cause on his own
Just because I like to see people killing each other.
I got another down-vote on one of my most controversial answers ever today. I'm still trying to figure out exactly why it's so controversial though. Is it really so difficult for people to understand that "reading and writing data" is/can be a perfectly valid abstraction? Do they really think there's some moral superiority to using function call-like syntax, even if what they're doing is accessing data?
In compensation
16:45
@sehe the robot is there too, but I'm not sure if he is fighting or making love
@JerryCoffin But you see, if the variable is private, and getter/setter is public, the data is encapsulated!
@JerryCoffin Surprisingly I got a really highly-upvoted answer on that topic, zero downvotes.
@Jefffrey I'm just spewing facts wherever they seem needed.
What is the correct usage of "so called"?
in JavaScript, 10 secs ago, by Florian Margaine
@BartekBanachewicz did I say anything about maintaining? I said get shit done
@R.MartinhoFernandes you are the Switzerland then
16:47
In this case, "training sessions –or training so called ". Is this correct, or should I be using another word here?
There's no need to echo things here, is there?
@JerryCoffin Surprisingly the accepted answer is not completely terrible, at least in the first half
@Pawnguy7 Correct usage would be something like: "I so called Mary to tell her that Joe is dumping Cathy as soon as I heard!"
@BartekBanachewicz This is so bad I'm close to tears
@CatPlusPlus I am actually too.
16:48
@JerryCoffin lol
JBL
JBL
@JerryCoffin I bet these people have a 3Dvector class that has setX, setY, setZ and the respective getters, which consist of one line : return m_x; or m_x = x;
@JBL They do
@R.MartinhoFernandes this was so bad I just couldn't bear it myself
JBL
JBL
Idiots.
Bartek is winning I think
16:49
@Pawnguy7 You can use "the so-called 'flabberwabber' is a thing that flabbers and wabbers".
@BartekBanachewicz See that's how I feel sometimes!
But really, drop it, let them be bad
We can't fix nothing
World's doomed
We'll be swimming in unreliable shit software written by incompetent idiots for the rest of eternity
Can I do "training sessions –or brainwashing so called "?
Let's get drunk and forget about it
Is what I had in mind.
@Pawnguy7 Are you Yoda?
16:51
@JBL You forgot the important part: that's all the class has: three variables, three setters and three getters, so they end up with 20 lines of code that accomplish exactly the same as struct Vec3D { double x, y, z; }; would have.
"or so called brainwashing"
JBL
JBL
I can't decide if Cat & Bartek agreeing is a good thing...
@JerryCoffin is there a ctor?
JBL
JBL
@JerryCoffin "Hey, I'm an OOP programmer, yay !"
@CatPlusPlus ://
16:52
@CatPlusPlus sounds better the first way to me
in JavaScript, 1 min ago, by Abhishek Hingnikar
Besides GIVE JAVASCRIPT A TRY its NOT SHIT ! there is a reason why its more used :P
JBL
JBL
@Pawnguy7 Obviously. Vec3D::Vec3D(float x, float y, float z): m_x(x), m_y(y), m_z(z){}
0
Q: Why did posting a link to my SO question in chat lead to a very negative response?

zalenixThis particular question was asked by me with honest curiosity and earnest effort was put in forming it as well. Never mind how easy/difficult the solution turns out to be, it was a legitimate problem that I was facing. Also there were no qualms about the effort put forth in forming the question...

@JBL I'd actually do a default ctor, because C++ is retarded and won't initialise the data members otherwise
16:53
speaking of vectors...how bad should I feel?
Or sometimes it will, but sometimes not, I don't even remember the rules
@CatPlusPlus it's just so bad
I... don't... even.
@melak47 You posted a screenshot of code, so very bad
I don't know what you have against code screenshots.
help me.
I'm trapped in the void
16:54
@CatPlusPlus if I pastebin it Bartek's gonna go "I hate pastebin >:(" again :p
@melak47 You don't need set_x et cetera
You can just do v.x() = stuff
@melak47 then use Gist problem solved.
use coliru
JBL
JBL
@CatPlusPlus That'd be if you're sane, but these guys aren't.
and shaddap
16:55
@JBL I suppose if you have support for {} it isn't needed. Though the syntax bugs me slightly.
I'm not sane
JBL
JBL
Yeah well, you got my point.
@Pawnguy7 Wat ?
gosh this dude
I just
@CatPlusPlus but then I can't pretend x is a data member
I thought I can take stupidity
16:56
@melak47 This is actually better at being encapsulation than straight getters/setters are
I was oh so wrong
My brain is shattered.
@melak47 Some silly extensions
@BartekBanachewicz are you still there?
@Jefffrey no I'm not
@JBL C++ has it. Not sure for others, you probably need a ctor then.
16:56
If I stayed there any longer I would turn into a vegetable.
in JavaScript, 27 secs ago, by Florian Margaine
@R.MartinhoFernandes I just meant that in a general way, it's been proven that dynamic typing makes it faster to write POC
JBL
JBL
@Pawnguy7 What do you mean by "if you have support for {}" ?
ahhahhHAHAHahhaahahah
9 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
There's no need to echo things here, is there?
ahahahahahahahahah
take them away from me.
every fucking time we repost something from JS room average IQ here drops noticeably.
JBL
JBL
@CatPlusPlus And the nobel prize for relevance is...
that guy is still rambling on
damn
He's never written any Haskell
16:57
he's a persistent bugger
he's fucking dumb FTFY
JBL
JBL
@TonyTheLion Let's debug the shit out of him !
I can tell because he has no fucking idea about type inference
JBL
JBL
Wait no.
16:58
@JBL a C++11 feature, I believe. Normally, you could initialize structs like = {x, y, z}, but you couldn't construct things inline (say, in a function call) using it.
We need hellban
@CatPlusPlus but he has written PHP!
GTFO FOREVER
JBL
JBL
@Pawnguy7 Oh ! Initializer-lists.
Yeah let's not repost this retarded shit anymore
@Pawnguy7 Do you mean: "Is there in their code?", or "should there be?" The answers are "probably not" and "yes", respectively.
JBL
JBL
Like Vec3D myVec = {1.0, 2.0,3.0};
@BartekBanachewicz good, take some deep breaths, check that no tail or white hair is growing on you and relax. You'll be fine.
Instead of arguing about dynamic typing vs static typing, I will just slap the opponent in the face from now on.
Yes. I get terms mixed up, so I don't try sometimes.
16:59
Vec3D { 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 } actually
@CatPlusPlus Only if explicit ctor.
Hopefully not.
@JerryCoffin they would have setters like that but not a ctor?

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