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15:00
@Pawnguy7 What I'm saying is that you modify the object, so it might as well not be const
@CatPlusPlus or involve me
It isn't const.
It should be transitive
Otherwise I couldn't modify it.
cause I never do anything
15:00
The reference is const
basically, any project that doesn't anyone in this Lounge
to the window, or to the stuff?
so everyone :getout:
Some people actually have some stuff that even builds and runs
And I already have the domain so
sf::RenderWindow & getWindow() const;
I don't see what you see.
15:02
Your constness is meaningless
My stuff builds and runs.
@CatPlusPlus the stuff being const?
Well.
It is basically like a read-only settings struct on this context.
But it's not read-only!
15:03
They have no reason to set it, and it could break things.
@Pawnguy7 Wait what.
You can set a reference to a temporary, for example.
Are you aware that foo.getWindow() = sf::RenderWindow(...) compiles just fine with what you have (and holds no dangling references either)?
15:04
You should return const sf::RenderWindow&
Oh.
I forgot about that part :\
What you have there is a setter called "getWindow"
Not sure how to fix this one.
4 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
It should be transitive
15:05
@Pawnguy7 Return a const reference.
Or not const at all
I need to be able to use the window, though.
And?
Is sf::RenderWindow broken?
I cannot do that if it is const.
@Pawnguy7 If you can mutate the window, why can't you mutate it all at once (i.e. assign)?
15:06
Oh wait.
You cannot do that actually.
The solution to non-const-correct stuff is not to mark shit as "const" randomly, and pretend it's okay
It isn't copyable.
Xeo
Xeo
getWindow() should simply be overloaded on const and non-const
Assignable != copyable
You should do constness properly, or don't bother doing it at all
How do you propose it be done?
15:08
if (valign == alignment::top)
    if(s == "4longer text")
        for(int i = 0; i < 4; ++i)
            verts(1, kbeg+i) = 100+i;
    else
        verts.row(1).segment(kbeg, k - kbeg) -= vspace - f->ascender;
This is so ugly.
No braces..? Why?
kbeg is a perfectly fine variable name, I don't know what you're talking about
@Rapptz Just a debugging hack.
as for //there is a bug here.
There was.
I fixed it, though.
Xeo
Xeo
And we're back to 'documentation is always outdated'.
JBL
JBL
15:10
Mmmh, isn't Microsoft doing a bit too much about VS 2013 launch ?
They make it sound and feel like the launch of a Blizzard game.
Xeo
Xeo
@JBL Well, Clang is on its merry way to snitching away their user base on Windows, so they better do something.
@CatPlusPlus I don't think it's that bad, if you start from k.
VS2013 is pretty buggy isn't it?
I would prefer kstart, but meh.
I haven't commited the changes yet.
15:11
@Xeo Not really.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh it's "beginning"
I didn't even think of that
JBL
JBL
@Xeo How about "do something" implies working on the IDE itself rather than doing a ton for marketing ? Meh...
It's clear enough with a kbeg = k; before a loop that moves k.
I don't know why it's called k, though.
short for krazy_variable
It's just a position tracker in a buffer.
Xeo
Xeo
15:14
i and j were already taken, maybe
I use x after that
okay I'm back
time to convince cabal I have zlib installed
@R.MartinhoFernandes It still sucks
@Xeo Nah, singly-nested loop.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think I'd prefer something like initial_k, but that's just quibbling over details. The real ugliness (IMO) is with things like "what's that string literal, and why is it special?" and "What are the 4 and 100 there".
15:16
7 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Rapptz Just a debugging hack.
The string literal is special because it's what I am looking for on the screen.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I caught that -- doesn't really explain much though.
Xeo
Xeo
Well, he can't just talk about it, y'know? Super secret robot-revolution stuff.
I had to install libghc-zlib-dev manually
where can I report that ?
So, nobody needs CI or anything?
15:17
@JerryCoffin Erm, why not? It's there because I put it there to see where something gets drawn to debug some bad alignment. It's a temporary marker for debugging.
@CatPlusPlus hm?
@CatPlusPlus What you hosting?
@BartekBanachewicz Report what? cabal doesn't install system dependencies
@CatPlusPlus are you offering you will sit here and download my code every commit?
@Xeo Jerry's -1 law of robotics: he will do what I say!
15:18
@CatPlusPlus ah.
@BartekBanachewicz Read the pin
Xeo
Xeo
(that don't die, i.e. don't involve me or rightfold)
lol
@CatPlusPlus Ah. I don't know, I actually think that what GH offers usually is enough for me
Me too.
travis-ci is neat too
15:19
@CatPlusPlus I don't understand what you are offering, then. If it doesn't involve you... what's your role in it?
@R.MartinhoFernandes For CI I was thinking about TeamCity
@Rapptz much love
@R.MartinhoFernandes It is a joke
Travis is too primitive for my taste, and isn't even that compelling to use (if they had OSX builders, I'd be more inclined to forgive underfeatureness)
@BartekBanachewicz as far as Direction::Right is concerned, it had to return something.
Xeo
Xeo
@Pawnguy7 throw NotYetImplementedException("getDirection");
15:21
@CatPlusPlus Well, I'm up for that. Whatchya need?
I want to slip into something more comfortable, like a coma.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess I must have misunderstood things then--it looked like you were modifying the alignment for that string, not just finding how it was aligned. Rereading, it still looks that way though.
I have a Gentoo host available if you need stuff.
@Xeo Do people do that?
I'll get the host running, I'm looking more for arguments for JetBrains to give us unlimited license :v
I already have loungecpp.net also
15:23
@JerryCoffin Oh, that disturbs a few vertices of the character '4' for a sanity test because this thing ain't making any sense.
JBL
JBL
@Pawnguy7 At least in Java.
I have Redmine sort of running, but want also try out Phabricator
JBL
JBL
Most IDE when generating a member function's stub will put that statement by default.
@Pawnguy7 that or use mockup libraries
Anyway, I am sure there are numerous problems with the code, but I never remember by the time I can fix them.
15:24
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, I see. That starts to at least make a little more sense then.
yaaay my first Reactive-Banana compiled program
Maybe I should make a list somewhere.
@JerryCoffin It's basically a debugging hack that has now grow way past any sane measure. Hence me posting it.
How do people usually make destructible terrain, as in artillery games?
I was thinking, if you could make a heightmap, and... "solidify" it near an explosion, but that sounds.. potentially broken.
15:26
come on, does this really do ajax request each time I type something into a texbox?
@Pawnguy7 People usually go to great lengths to 'avoid* making destructible terrain
@Pawnguy7 it's usually rather hard, and the sparse mesh works best
Unless you're thinking of old-school games like scorched earth or worms, where the terrain is effectively just a bitmap, that is
@jalf i.e. voxel games
I was thinking of Pocket Tanks.
15:27
@BartekBanachewicz not much "volume" in a game that is purely 2d, is there? :p
but yeah, if you extended that technique to 3d, it would be voxel-based
fuck, it's only half three
I was about to up and leave thinking it was half four
@jalf okay
anyway @Pawnguy7 if you want to do voxel terrain rasterizer, let me know.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mmmhhmmm. Okay, so the only part that's "real" code is the verts.row(1).segment(kbeg, k - kbeg) -= vspace - f->ascender;, correct? This is apparently intended to adjust the leading based on the vertical ascender height?
@Pawnguy7 Haven't played it, but from a quick google, it looks pretty much exactly like the games I mentioned
That was my thought, yes.
I would think checking all of that would be slow though.
15:29
@Pawnguy7 depends on how you do it
iterating over a few mb of data 60 times per second isn't a big deal, even if you do it naively
Total Commander sucks at tarballs
@jalf meh, use a quadtree
shapecasts on a quadtree are rather easy
@BartekBanachewicz I was thinking about GL, and you are right. While it would be useful, I don't think I will be using it soon, and so will forget it.
@BartekBanachewicz sure
15:30
So the next thing in the learning queue.
@Pawnguy7 hm?
but why would you even need to iterate over it? You know exactly which pixels need to be checked
Was... I forgot. The noise.
Somehow I am drawing a blank. Perlin, there.
And/or simple.
if a projectile travels through pixel (x,y), check if (x,y) is empty
15:31
I was wondering what I would use it for.
you don't need to know how they work in order to use them
According to a particular tutorial, it was useful for landscapes such as these, though.
@jalf usually a projectile is bigger than a pixel though
@Pawnguy7 if you want dead simple terrain gen, use octave randomizing
@BartekBanachewicz a couple of pixels then
15:32
point is, you know exactly where it is going, so just check the pixels that are in its path
JBL
JBL
@BartekBanachewicz Make it pointy, and check for the pixel of the projectile tip !
@Pawnguy7 Divide the plane into four squares, move each of the 9 points randomly up and down, repeat recursively
@jalf that looks like curve casting. Ow.
I want Resharper C++ for the template stuffs...but right now it's awfully slow and doesn't do some useful things VAX does :/
@BartekBanachewicz How is it different from what you're doing already?
You need to compute its trajectory in order to, well, propagate it along its trajectory
Xeo
Xeo
15:34
@CatPlusPlus That's a nice server.
@jalf if you want to do it in a continuous (non-discrete way), arbitrary curve voxel propagation will be a bitch
Xeo
Xeo
Old core, though
@BartekBanachewicz Again with the voxels. Isn't he talking about a simple old-school 2d game?
@jalf yes, but propagations across voxels that differ in size is much harder
@jalf voxels, pixels, whatever.
Well, Xeon one would cost twice as much
15:34
math is the same.
@BartekBanachewicz If you want to generalize it, sure
Hm, there are Xeon ones for 69
but drawing a curve in 2d is not prohibitively expensive
@jalf I've tried to asses how much my QuadTree code would need to be modified in order to work in 3D, and apparently it was like two lines.
and you don't need to worry about pixels differing in size
@BartekBanachewicz but again, what would you even use a quadtree for?
@jalf Meh, speed is irrelevant here.
@jalf unifying large areas of filled/unfilled pixels
to well, yeah, speed up computations.
@BartekBanachewicz And what do you need to do with those areas?
@jalf check them for collision with a point or shape
@BartekBanachewicz collisions with what? You're tracking one single projectile with a hitbox of all of 1x1 pixels on a fixed trajectory
15:36
well point is obviously easier and would work well
Anyway, @Bartek, want to see a real CI server
nothing is going to be cheaper than just tracking the half-dozen pixels that need to be tested each frame
@CatPlusPlus don't expect me to drool.
@jalf My mind is already in the world where splines meet voxels :3
Even if you got creative and made the projectile 3x3 pixels, it would still be trivial (and optimal) to just test the pixels along its path
To clarify the pin, I'm not pooling funds, I just want to see how many people would want to use this, so maybe this powerful one would be worthwhile
15:38
yeah, I don't doubt that.
@BartekBanachewicz and get beautiful little sploxel babies?
Xeo
Xeo
There are no charges for overage. We will permanently restrict the connection speed if more than 30 TB/month are used
Xeo
Xeo
I think that would need a good bit of torrenting.
This is really high-traffic stuff
15:38
Anyway, I'd better head home. I've got a lot of slacking to do
@Pawnguy7 octave-based random displacement is simpler still
Xeo
Xeo
@jalf You bastard.
Well, here was how I was thinking.
I have gotten by without using noise thus far.
one of the JS folks made that recently
@Xeo It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it. All that slacking won't slack itself
15:39
So I was wondering what it was useful for, beside being deterministic.
@Pawnguy7 it's easily parametrizable
you can generate authentic-looking wood and stuff with it
@Pawnguy7 making pretty procedural patterns
it's just basically a ready-made algorithm that you can use and exhibits nice properties
@jalf Well, maybe it would--but better not take any chances.
Hrm.
Maybe I should just generate landscapes to get an idea of how it looks.
15:42
@Pawnguy7 use javascript
:D
Um.
Why?
@JerryCoffin Yeah. And I just ascertained that it is completely correct. Had to pull out a screen ruler anyway. The boxes where the text is supposed to be aligned are what is wrong.
Because javascript.
@Pawnguy7 I am much better prepared to defend it now than you are to bash it :)
15:43
Here is how I see it.
I made the first island generator using it.
The C++ variant took half the time, and was doubly better.
@BartekBanachewicz :lol:
@CatPlusPlus well I still have to read the damn book
but after "AJAX Monad" clicked.... well
Ajax... monad?
15:45
@CatPlusPlus basicaly crockford illustrated how, for example, JQuery is a monad
WTF IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE
and how all jQ functions in cascade are bind with syntactic sugar
You can say the same about statement-based functions in any language
It proves nothing and is not useful
15:46
It's interesting :v
Now, I don't randomly go around bashing languages usually, but past experience was not kind for me, and I don't think I work well in languages such as these.
Can he define jQuery monad in terms of join? :v
Probably never heard of
15:47
I was also told today is a cultist and a freak
s/String theory/jQuery monad/, s/all matter and energy/jQuery calls/ s/strings/binds with syntactic sugar/
Also what book is that
anyway, exploring JS was interesting thus far, but I still don't buy the dynamic typing is good shite
@CatPlusPlus JS: The Good Parts
Dynamic typing isn't a problem
Weak typing is
@ScottW yes?
15:48
that too.
@CatPlusPlus ES6 is correcting that a bit
Potion Lore?
Unearthing the Excellence in JavaScript
stop posting random excerpts
That's subtitle
@CatPlusPlus The excellence in JavaScript was dead and buried.
15:49
The world runs on random excerpts.
@R.MartinhoFernandes And long since decomposed
@CatPlusPlus in his lecture titled the same as the book he mentoned more bad parts than good parts
@ScottW color correction?
Thing is, even if I am not going to become full-time JS developer, the mention about the good parts intrigued me.
The language is fundamentally broken
15:50
However, I still fail to see how they are inherently better from what, say, Lua has to offer.
No "good parts" can fix that
@CatPlusPlus so is C++. So what?
user1804599
C++ is not relevant.
you should read what Jerry wrote again
there are no perfect languages.
Crockford identifies the abundance of good ideas that make JavaScript an outstanding object-oriented programming language-ideas such as functions, loose typing, dynamic objects, and an expressive object literal notation
15:51
@ScottW I see. Theoretically Snake will be finished eventually.
All very relevant to OOP
@CatPlusPlus you should watch the lecture
Xeo
Xeo
such as functions
lol
Functions make a language outstanding?
I think I saw it once
It wasn't very good
15:51
he literally states that "many people believe that you can't write good Js programs"
user1804599
lol “Js”
@Pawnguy7 Especially functions with unenforced signatures!
Xeo
Xeo
s/believe/know/?
@BartekBanachewicz So?
Xeo
Xeo
@Pawnguy7 outstandingly bad!
15:52
I believe that I cannot write good javascript programs, and that is all that matters.
@CatPlusPlus So that's apparently not true.
It's not relevant to whether the language is bad or not
@Pawnguy7 that I could agree with.
Xeo
Xeo
Also, ugh, "loose typing" sounds horrible, from the name alone
It's the same argument PHP users use
15:52
@CatPlusPlus every language is bad.
sits here quietly
well PHP is terrible but let's not talk about PHP please
Yes, so let's never evaluate quality of our tools, because none of them are perfect
user1804599
<?php
15:53
@Pawnguy7 Based on use of line-number oriented BASIC with no real functions (e.g., no local variables), they're a pretty important ingredient. They may not make it great, but they're necessary to keep it from being terrible.
Jan 24 at 19:22, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Ell javascript sucks. Why do something in javascript if you can use CSS
This is awesome.
:THUMBSUP:
15:53
@R.MartinhoFernandes WOW I'M EVALUATING
This is fucking retarded
You're part of the problem, congrats
Excuse me?
for trying to gather more information about the language and stopping to bash it without reasoning?
I got pulled in because of a flag. now i'm trying to understand the conversation.. anyone wanna tl;dr it for me?
@JerryCoffin well yes, but I don't know any widely used language that does not have functions
@rlemon "JS is terrible - no it's not" looped.
15:54
@rlemon javascript is bad, and something about monads maybe
2
@BartekBanachewicz No
@rlemon A flag? Where? I missed it.
@R.MartinhoFernandes because jquery obviously
@CatPlusPlus so what is the problem exactly?
@R.MartinhoFernandes someone flagged some very old message about "fuck off you questiondumper"
or something along those lines
15:55
@Pawnguy7 Thankfully, I don't either (any more).
@rlemon Bartek is learning JS, it seems. He changed from dismissing it as complete garbage to actually sorta liking it or something.
it was invalidated before I could even load the page to see the context.
For defaulting to irrelevant shit and using PHP-level arguments to defend broken tools
@rlemon someone flagged and old message? so what?
@CatPlusPlus JS is not PHP-broken
It's very close
JS has some broken features. PHP consists only of broken features.
@R.MartinhoFernandes it happens. As someone who actually enjoys js quite a bit I can understand where his new mindset is coming from
that's a huge difference.
15:56
We're talking about language that DOESN'T ENFORCE FUNCTION SIGNATURES
I've already told you I consider that bad, shall I repeat it?
with that said, anyone who writes a concernable amount of js will admit the language has some serious flaws. But the flaws often are not the ones people coming from other languages complain about oddly.
It is fundamentally broken, starting from type system, through scoping rules and dynamically bound this, to shit like this
@rlemon I'd guess (albeit, without real evidence) that somebody clicked the "flag" button more or less accidentally and canceled it again as soon as they realized.
@JerryCoffin ah. But you used both assembly and BASIC, yes? Anything else?
15:57
@CatPlusPlus My research leads me to believe it's more like "totally different, awkward and why the fuck", not "fundamentally broken"
@JerryCoffin maybe.
This is not something you can handwave away, BECAUSE IT DIRECTLY AFFECTS QUALITY OF THE SOFTWARE AND DEVELOPER PRODUCTIVITY
@CatPlusPlus You should leave the this part to the end, like "to shit like this"
@JerryCoffin AFAIK, can't cancel it.
Time will tell if those will actually converge into one.
@Pawnguy7 Early FORTRAN didn't really have functions either. It had something it called a function, but it was more like a C macro.
15:58
@CatPlusPlus BE ADVISED: LOOKS LIKE YOUR CAPS LOCK IS MALFUNCTIONING
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wanted to make a joke on that, but too late
So far, I don't feel competent enough to dismiss its choices completely.
That's why I am learning
Xeo
Xeo
@JerryCoffin You can't accidentally flag
Ell
Ell
I learned how cool Hinduism was today
Xeo
Xeo
You have another checkbox to confirm.
15:58
My brain is malfunctioning, I have to explain language design 101 over and over again
And your "ITS TERRIBLE WHY YOU DONTS EE IT I SAID SO" attitude is not helping
@sehe How did you diagnose that? Escape is mostly harmless in chat.
@Ell it's a... let's not get into that debate
@CatPlusPlus your problem is that you assume you're particularly good at language design or something
@CatPlusPlus, how is the lounge chat going?
15:59
@BartekBanachewicz lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes someone had to say that vOv
@sehe Joke's on you, my Caps Lock is F13
@ScottW VIRGIN!
@rlemon I don't think you can flag very old messages anymore. They fixed that. A ways back
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah whatever

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