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12:00
I do admit, it took me a while to learn how to use apt-get and dpkg, but once I learned it, I do not want anything that does less than they do.
user1804599
Beautiful.
@DeadMG That is precisely the reason package managment is superior than way you do things.
user1804599
params = $~.names.map { |n| { n => $~[n] } }
@MislavBlažević What, it can tell me that I don't want to use this application anymore?
because if so, I'm impressed by how fucking psychic it is.
There is cool trick you can do to check if you dont use a program...
12:01
right, but then I have to find all the programs, and think about which ones I do or do not use.
@DeadMG Is Daisy hiding under the table yet?
instead of just "Reinstall system: all crap cleaned right away, just reinstall what I want".
@MartinJames wat?
@DeadMG You seem to be projecting some anger today :)
@DeadMG Then simply remove libgtk and then use autoremove to remove all orphaned packages => simple
@MislavBlažević I see. And what about all of the data that's not a package?
12:03
@DeadMG I think he's talkin about your dog
@MartinJames When I went to hospital they gave me some worthless shit advice I already tried. And unsurprisingly, it's not fucking working.
What data? Configuration is removed with --purge
@MislavBlažević How about, for example, video files?
@DeadMG Yeah :((
or text files?
12:04
@DeadMG find . | grep avi | xargs rm
replace avi with txt
right, but then I have to find and think about every extension I might want to remove.
I don't even know half the extensions the programs on my computer and I might have used.
@DeadMG Be careful with deleting text files - some of them may be executables in disguise :)
and you know what?
12:05
If they are in your home, uninstaller can't do it anyway. If they are in package's directory, --purge will do it.
I also reinstall my operating system because it's fucking broken (sometimes because I broke it, sometimes otherwise) and I can't fix it.
Then don't use broken OS. Use debian.
er, no.
see, this is another downside of Linux.
Not being broken?
12:06
instead of just having "Windows", and then at most there's like, "Windows 7+" and "Windows Vista-"
it's like, "There's a thousand distributions of Linux, and you might spend three years finding one that suits you, and I hope that every program you want to use supports your favourite distro"
Ell
Ell
Fragmentation?
@DeadMG Have you heared of GNU Autotools?
Ell
Ell
Well all programmes really support all distros
^ Cause autotools work.
Ell
Ell
its only they don't all supply packages for them all
and if you don't want to compile from source
user1804599
12:07
@DeadMG that’s good.
@Ell Which is an equivalent problem, really, because on Linux if you didn't get special treatment by the operating system vendor then you can go fuck yourself.
user1804599
You have choice.
@DeadMG I agree. Linux needs to combine their individual efforts, or else it'll always be a joke.
Debian packages 40 thousand packages; I am yet to encounter unpackaged software
@MislavBlažević Only 40k?
how many applications are written for Windows?
user1804599
12:08
If you are too ignorant to learn to use something not exactly the same as the thing you’re used to then don’t complain about it.
40k packages doesn't mean 40k programs. Many packages are software collections: such as GNU coreutils provides ~150 programs
eh.
potato potahto.
@MislavBlažević so how much you need to elaborate?
if I download VS for Windows, I'd still only really call that one application, even though it strictly is also composed of several programs.
this is why I'm getting a Mac asap
12:09
@Games what?
ubuntu dsnt even have a decent screen recording software
wow Linux vs Windows discussion
it's like the late 90s again
ubuntu had to ask my permission to install a fucking extension so it could play .mp3 files.
what a joke.
@Games which feature do you need? There is lots screen recording software; like vlc and ffmpeg
@DeadMG Login as root and no permissions will be asked
Ell
Ell
@deadmg that's not a joke
12:10
@MislavBlažević The last one I tried was Kazam, and it was a joke compared to ScreenFlow or Camtasia
Ell
Ell
Freedom as in libre is important to ubuntu
@Ell You're right, it should be a joke, but it was an all-too-real experience.
Its like I can't even get decent software even if I want to pay for it.
Ell
Ell
and all it is is a tickbox
12:11
@MislavBlažević The permission thing was only the minority of the problem. The problem is that the default music player was terrible, and a music player that cannot play mp3s is worthless.
i fixed pip
why even bother shipping a music-playing program if it can't play mp3s?
@Games Try kdenlive
Ell
Ell
I prefer libre free to nonfree software
Because it can play flacs
who needs lossy compression anyway
I do.
a large number of my existing music files are in mp3.
12:12
@DeadMG "default" depends on how large image did you install. You can install 40MB "default" ubuntu as well; it wont play any music
mp3 is not free so Ubuntu can't just ship it by default
@StackedCrooked And yet many distros do it. Fuck patents and shit
@StackedCrooked I don't care why it's not in the box. I'm a user, not a developer in this context.
@MislavBlažević Well, I have to say that I'd have a lot more sympathy for an OS that simply did not ship a music player.
Ell
Ell
12:13
It's not just developers that care about freedom
I could certainly make the argument that I'd rather find and install a third-party than a broken first-party.
oh yeah, I might mention that it was totally broken in many other ways.
Nothing is broken DeadMG. If you thick a checkbox in Ubuntu installation mp3 will be there
I didn't see any such.
@MislavBlažević I did. Its exporting wasn't even close to Camtasia or screenflow
btw, whats up with vala?
it seems to be really hip these days
12:15
lolnop
Ell
Ell
@deadmg you didn't see the checkbox during installation?
and I might also mention that Ubuntu had a bunch of really nasty rendering artifacts that kept popping up.
i hate vala :(
@Ell Nope.
Ell
Ell
What version was that?
12:15
12.04 I think.
Ell
Ell
I installed ubuntu just fine and ticked the box just fine
it was the newest when I downloaded the image.
@MislavBlažević It feels like a java-ish sorta language
Unity sucks a little less today. Or may I just got used to it.
man, the windowing was terrible too.
programs were so... "sticky" to screens.
12:16
Its always on the side @StackedCrooked
@GamesBrainiac It is C# actually, except that it is "compiled" to C
I find it hard to explain, but I always found that they were very resistant to staying where I moved them.
especially if it involved moving between displays.
user1804599
Use i3.
12:17
@MislavBlažević Hmm... that just sounds weird.
like, maximize on one display -> maximized on the other, wtf.
@DeadMG yep that still happens
I had dual-screen on Windows XP and they didn't get that one wrong.
Xeo
Xeo
Candy Box 2 beaten, whee
Hello.
12:19
@Xeo with a JS debugger?
Xeo
Xeo
Nope
By playing the game
The same way I beat the first one
I mean, cheating for a simple browser game? This one didn't even require you to really farm for hours on end
my memory of Candy Box was that "playing" was a pretty loose definition.
Have you ever had a bug where the window title still displays the old number of new messages?
what.
Well.
I looked away for a bit, and it was two.
After checking them and switching away, it was still 2.
12:25
oh yes
I have seen that from time to time.
but SO doesn't give two shits about chat so
What do they care about?
I honestly don't know.
they don't seem to do much.
I guess the only thing they do is expand the server farm to handle the load of the growing popularity.
I don't think it can get any more popular than it is now.
What I wonder.
Is if it is taking in more answerers.
Than people wanting an answer.
Or whatever equivalent ratio there is.
12:30
There is shit loads of unanswered questions
many of them are either unanswerable or plain bad.
Some of mine have been pretty localized.
hm... there is std::atomic_compare_exchange_* for raw pointer and shared_ptr but not for unique_ptr. looks like a defect.
One definitely was. Might fit on gamedev, though.
@Abyx NAD- Deleter template argument makes this problematic.
12:32
ah, right.
shared_ptr is always 2x sizeof(void*) in basically any reasonable implementation.
but Deleter can be arbitrarily stateful.
@Pawnguy7 Gamedev is worse than SO.
but I want to use unique_ptr =\
also
I'm honestly not sure how CAS would work with a move-only type.
doesn't CAS inherently involve copying at least one of the arguments?
@DeadMG Because ~gamedev~? I have not looked at it much, but it seems to have... well, problems related to games.
@DeadMG it should just change internal pointer
12:34
@Pawnguy7 I used to ask questions there.
like it does with raw pointers
not only are the answers a great deal of the reason I now consider game developers to be highly inferior
But then you took arrow to the knee?
but the simple fact is, it's obvious that there is hardly anyone there of any knowledge at all- even game-specific stuff that's not just plain awful.
12:35
question in question.
Sadly, I never solved it that way.
Ell
Ell
Yeah gamedev looks like a site of noobs :/
user1804599
As does Stack Overflow.
@Pawnguy7 Yeah, your code is unreadably bad.
but you're going about this all wrong, I would say.
Xeo
Xeo
@Abyx What if the deleter state is tied to the pointer state?
you need to start from, "This is the height of the water block, so the next block is that height plus like, 1-2".
12:38
I want to say I refactored this later, but I am not sure.
A friend from Japanese class told me his dream came true now that there's a pigeon dating sim.
@DeadMG Raising the land?
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Uh what
that's what he told me...
I don't know him that well..
@Pawnguy7 Right.
12:40
I considered it briefly.
But I thought it would be odd, if many lakes were on hills.
er, no, that's not what I meant at all.
let's say
@StackedCrooked Unfortunately, pigeon dating only available on PC. I will wait for an android version.
the starting height of the terrain is 0.
12:41
@MartinJames I think I'll try it out.
Build the land after the lake?
right.
start from one side, build the land until you decide it's time for a lake, build the lake, then build the next bit of land after you already know the lakes height.
@Xeo yep it should work only for equal deleters.
@Abyx Equality is not currently part of the deleter interface, I think.
Anyway, I think I just made lakes where there was a large enough dip.
12:43
also, even if the deleters are equal, there's still the arbitrary-size problem and the copyability problem.
Though the trees were kind of static.
yeah.
Xeo
Xeo
@Abyx Uh, how do you define equality of a deleter at compile-time? Because even if they may be equal, that can only be decided at run-time and what should the CAS function do if they're not equal - throw?
then it's "for deleters which has operator== and are equal"
@Xeo UB would be OK.
@Abyx No, no it would not.
12:44
Oh, for a highscore screen. Should I show nothing when there is nothing or something along the lines of "no scores yet"?
Xeo
Xeo
I guess you could say that CAS is only allowed on stateless, equal-type deleters
@Pawnguy7 Just initialize it to 10 dummy scores.
@Pawnguy7 Don't ever show nothing.
@FredOverflow ah. it seems most things go with that, yes.
Question is, what are they.
I should implement destructors again in Wide.
12:46
99 THIS
90 GAME
80 RULES
70 MORE
60 THAN
50 ANY
40 OTHER
30 GAME
20 HAS
10 RULED
0 BEFORE
Dammit, that's 11 :(
also finish up the operator overloading stuff.
True.
Currently I show 5, not sure why I picked that.
if you show nothing, your program is broken.
How about.
Wood and metals for names?
that's it.
12:53
@DeadMG The ones you implemented at first had been destructed?
in the future, I am always naming myself Ununoctinium.
@StackedCrooked Yeah, they fell victim to an accident involving hg revert, and I never re-implemented them.
which is fine because that implementation sucked.
I usually go with beer:
50: Directors
40: Bombardier
30: Landlord
20: Rev James
10: Spitfire
0 : Coors
-900 : Bud
holy fucking shit, there's so much work to do on Wide.
Ell
Ell
13:00
@DeadMG You got a checklist somewhere?
and some version milestones?
not one I keep regularly up to date.
Ell
Ell
I think milestones help to keep up morale and give concrete goals to aim for
but I found one like four months old, and there's still most of the stuff to do on it.
and there wasn't a bunch of important stuff like tests and error handling and VS addin.
Ell
Ell
maybe you should write one out? I think it helps to keep you focussed
well
Ell
Ell
13:02
like on my swf parser I'm writing I have a milstone for reading compressed swfs
there is so much to do, I honestly don't know what to do focus on next.
but
I think that I will focus on some testing and error handling, and a couple of convenience features.
sick of having a compiler that can't compile some of the simplest programs.
Should I overwrite scores?
Ell
Ell
Can it do hello world?
could do that 11 months ago.
until I broke it on a pretty industrial scale that is.
Ell
Ell
How did you break it?
Also do you do unit tests?
13:09
well, I ripped out key systems and then never checked to see if they actually worked.
@Ell I do have some now.
What;s this wide project?
a language I am building.
oh yeah.
Cool. Does it have a website?
you cannot do std.cout << "Hello, World!"; right now because I am in the middle of ripping out the binary overload code.
it's complicated, but.
that won't work
@namezero Not really, not right now.
oh yeah
and I really, really wish I could figure out why the fuck it doesn't work on Linux.
@DeadMG ok. Interpreted or compiled?
13:13
@namezero Dealer's choice.
well, I didn't actually write a great deal of interpreter code, it doesn't have much of a useful interpreter right now. But you can interpret LLVM IR.
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG Do you have a linux machine now?
but you can interpret it if you want to.
Ell
Ell
Or virtual machine?
nah.
even if I did, it would take me about six hours to build LLVM and Clang.
Ell
Ell
you could leave it going overnight
13:15
@Ell Er, I live overnight, and I sleep overday.
I woke up at 10pm last night.
Ell
Ell
Oh yea >.<
really?
yes really.
there's no way in hell that I can possibly justify losing a single ounce of sleep right now.
@DeadMg VMs can be harder than you think though
@namezero I don't need to write one. LLVM comes with an interpreter.
@DeadMG Yes in that case it's all provided :]
Interesting project though.
What's the scopr of the lang?
13:19
pretty big
I intend to use it to replace C++
Ok, that's a bit of a tall order haha
yep
working well so far though.
I have a killer feature nobody else can match.
Care to share?
sure.
imagine for a moment that you have an existing application based on, let's say, Boost.Spirit.
then let's say that you absolutely fucking hate C++ and you would use any other language, ever.
you don't really have much of a choice because there's no languages which can be compatible with your existing application.
but Wide, on the other hand, can handle the C++ ABI, templates, and all that stuff.
my "Hello, World" isn't print("Hello, World"), it's std.cout << "Hello, World!";- using <iostream> as the I/O library.
until I author my own for Wide, at least.
hungry ... will have some perserved veges ...
13:23
<iostream> is pretty terrible.
That's a good feature. I think a lot of languages are not used/underused because of the incompatibility with existing (mostly C/C++) libraries
ewwww C/C++
please don't ever say that ever again.
besides, most languages can be poked into C compatiblity.
I think I want to make it so scores get overwritten.
it's C++ compat which is genuinely unique.
But I don't know how I should abstract this.
13:25
*Existing libraries written in C or existing libraries written in C++. Better? :]
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG I've just pulled and updated and I'm gonna try to compile wide again
Yes, "poked". Even the .NET family, with PInvoke, marshalling, etc. sucks
yeah I found that out for myself recently enough.
Ell
Ell
I don't think PInvoke is that bad
half the problem is duplicating all your function signatures and keeping them in sync
Ell
Ell
13:27
at least you don't have to write a wrapper in C
the other problem is that .NET contains absolutely no useful support whatsoever for deterministic destruction.
so using unmanaged APIs is essentially back to malloc() and free().
@Ell These days I'm a lot more rigorous about making sure it builds before pushing it.
undoubtedly you'll still find a few MSVCisms like __debugbreak or something that GCC won't accept.
PInvoke is the cleanest, but often unusable if you need to pass non-PODs
well, it simply doesn't really support that.
you would have to manually compensate for the ABI.
that would be beyond ugly.
Ell
Ell
error: an explicit specialization must be preceded by ‘template <>’ struct hash<Wide::Parser::Error>
I remember this from last time
Just not how to solve it :s
hm
just add template<> on that line.
Ell
Ell
13:33
oh yeah
I need to lern2read
I never compiled that branch because VS does not require that specialization.
Ell
Ell
Also also there is no specialisation for Warning either, which is causing a compile error
ah just dupe the Error spec and change it to Warning.
Ell
Ell
kk
../../Wide/Parser/ParserError.h:207:25: error: looser throw specifier for ‘virtual const char* Wide::Parser::ParserError::what() const’
I think it needs noexcept?
yes.
huh
just realized about 50% of these parser errors are no longer issued.
user1804599
13:41
Yay.
user1804599
Monadic parsing in Ruby.
you know Ell
you're right.
I need to subdivide my todo list into different tasks.
@rightfold eh
@Ell What, no more MSVC-isms rejected?
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Isn’t it beautiful? gist.github.com/rightfold/05749d833b685d0b5d4d
13:51
also @GamesBrainiac sucks so much for all his "OMG I NEED IDE TO CODE"
I hope that's why it was starred
@rightfold why would you send me ruby code?
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG there are others, I'm still fixing them as they come
user1804599
If you don’t want to see it, don’t look at it.
Xeo
Xeo
Bartek, one question: Did you ever actually (try to) write anything in Ruby?
@Xeo No, and I haven't ever tried to eat shit. Your real question being?
4
13:53
stay classy
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz you criticise so much yet you haven't even tried :/
That's a shame
@Ell meh, let's focus on things we both like, not hate
Ell
Ell
Right :)
@BartekBanachewicz I like Ruby :)
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz You should stop bashing / hating on things that you have never even used. It was the same with DirectX. Ruby is potentially a p-o-s, but if you've never used it, you have no reason to complain about them. Also, it's getting highly annoying.
13:54
I gotta look at @Pawnguy7 code someday
his procedural generation is starting to look promising
@Xeo aight.
@Xeo little people live in little worlds
Ell
Ell
> error: declaration of ‘void Wide::AST::Builder::Error(std::vector<Wide::Lexer::Range>, Wide::Parser::Error)’ [-fpermissive]
Xeo
Xeo
@Ell Any note?
Ell
Ell
13:55
This looks like a simple c++ error but I don't see the problem: void Error(std::vector<Wide::Lexer::Range>, Parser::Error);
@Xeo No
yeah, I don't see the issue with that either.
GCC doesn't give any other information?
Xeo
Xeo
context of the code?
Ell
Ell
Ahh wait a minute
next error is
Ell
Ell
> changes meaning of ‘Error’ from ‘struct Wide::AST::Error’ [-fpermissive]
struct Error : public Expression {
13:57
huh.
Ell
Ell
@StackedCrooked aww shucks ;)
well, I don't currently use Error expression I believe.
try simply deleting it.
I definitely do use the Error functon though
Xeo
Xeo
Also, stop compiling with -fpermissive?
Ell
Ell
This is just the makefile that premake generated
huh, turns out I do in fact use Error expression.
Xeo
Xeo
13:59
hm... I need a new Linux vm
and a Linux distro
Ell
Ell
I'll turn off -fpermissive though
Xeo
Xeo
what should I pick this time...
Ell
Ell
Linux mint <3
easier to change the Error AST node name.

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