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04:00
340 USD isn't bad at all for the top of the line.
@Mysticial only difference is hyperthreading right?
(and higher standard clock and 2MB more L3 cache)
HT is a bit deal for me.
why, if I may ask?
(pure interest)
Because my code is threaded.
but if you can saturate all 4 cores with 4 threads, there's no point in hyperthreading, is there?
04:03
Oh. The 4670k doesn't have hyper threading?
That sucks.
@Rapptz it's i5, so no
@nightcracker But I can't. And it's extremely difficult to do so when the memory usage is non-trivial.
@Mysticial does hyperthreading give you effectively more cache, or?
@nightcracker No. It actually hurts it since the cache/thread is halved. But it lets me overlap code that's computation-bound with code that's memory bound.
I'm having craving for pistachios and cheese.
04:05
@Mysticial I don't quite understand yet - I'll do some more reading on hyperthreading
but I don't think I have 80 euros to spare just for hyperthreading, seeing as I don't exactly need it right now
Not your personal army.
@nightcracker HT also lets you get away with suboptimal code.
i++++;
If you have extra execution slots in one thread, the other can run.
@Mysticial how much watts PSU do you use?
04:10
@nightcracker 850W. Leftover from the Sandy Bridge rig that I fried on Wednesday.
It's overkill without two high-end video cards.
what would you suggest for a single-video card build?
my budget is ~1000 euros
600W should be enough.
can I get away with 500 (I'll see price differences)
You can't probably lower, but I don't usually skimp on PSU.
true
(don't bother converting to USD, it's pretty much 1 - 1 because technology is a lot more expensive here)
04:12
I like how someone who failed to build his own PC giving advice to someone else on how to build a pc
there's a difference between fail in build and fail to build
fail in build is mismatching motherboard or too small PSU
fail to build is this:
@Mysticial are you familiar with plextor SSD's?
nope
I haven't been much in the SSD business.
Since I usually have enough ram to make up for it.
haha
I think about getting 8 gigs or maybe 16
I would never recommend 16 gigs to my friends
Open-air setup works. Time to mount it.
but now that I'm more into computational science I'm considering it
04:18
I'd go for at least 16 GB.
@Mysticial how much ram do you run? 32?
@StackedCrooked don't know whether I can fit that in my budget though
32GB. The same 4 sticks that was meant for the AMD machine. But since it didn't work on it, it inherited the 16GB left behind by the dead Sandy Bridge machine.
8 GB is a little cramped for me.
It's what I currently have.
I'm currently running on 2 gigs O,O
@Mysticial what exactly caused the PC to fry?
@nightcracker Two of the memory lanes on the back of the motherboard melted and charred.
04:23
@Mysticial but isn't it physically impossible to put a ram stick in the wrong way (not trying to bash or anything, but I thought it was impossible)
@nightcracker I thought it was impossible two. But the ram clips did close. So I thought it was in correctly.
@ScottW doesn't look very funny
@Mysticial I think I'll go for a Seasonic M12II 520W PSU - do you trust seasonic?
@Mysticial bus, not memory lanes, bus
ffs
Just look at reviews.
04:25
maybe you should study a bit E. engineering so you don't sound so ignorant
@ScottW Quicksort looks more like an O(N) than an O(N log N) algorithm on that graph.
It looks like n log n to me
The curve is very slight.
@Rapptz eehm no
It doesn't look linear.
04:29
@Rapptz art is 80 at 50000 and 160 at 100000
@ScottW do you say this to girls?
@ScottW hey wanna go to my place and investigate my big red spike?
@ScottW it can work for a long time before it's all sorted out
@nightcracker 74 and 152 actually
@Mysticial is AMD still shit compared to nVidia or have they caught up?
jep
wij zijn 24/7
wat de fuck
hoe bedoel je
@nightcracker I'm not sure right now. My high-end video cards have all been Nvidia.
ja
@ScottW I was born in Houston
So I can't tell you much other than what other people say.
04:35
@Mysticial I'd be pleased to hear the concensus if you'd know it
(even if not first hand)
@ScottW ja
@Mysticial I kinda don't want to go AMD because of linux drivers =/
hmm
I'm starting to come to realize that Monopoly is not actually a very good game.
my poor childhood nostalgia.
I guess the fact that it's so luck based makes it so enjoyable as a kid
you can "outplay" others
it's fun with a group of friends
yes.
(by rolling the dice)
04:40
the problem is that the rents are too high.
@Rapptz depends on the type of beverage served
and too low for regular properties, I think.
there's just not enough money in the system for the players to even out the highs and lows.
once the houses start dropping, and sometimes even before that, one or two bad rolls can sink you from the best position to dead.
@DeadMG that's the entire point - to go bankrupt or get rich within a turn
like when we played it was even worse
all money that should go to the bank goes into the center of the board
naw.
if you land on that one square that does nothing you get that money
04:41
the best game systems can have some elements of luck.
but you can't be as luck based as Monopoly is.
ah "just park" it's called
the more I consider it, the less I can see how player skill makes any difference whatsoever to the outcome of the game.
free parking
@nightcracker "Free Parking" in English.
@DeadMG "to buy or not to buy"
04:42
it's a board game that revolves around dice and decision making
it almost doesn't matter.
the only luck component is the dice
also, there was this study
staying inside the prison is almost always profitable
it's virtually always superior to buy property owned by the bank
@Rapptz Which govern virtually every mechanic in the game.
@DeadMG Every decent board game in existence..
04:43
@ScottW toen ik ~1 was; omdat mn ouders allebei nederlands zijn
that's not really a defence.
it's more like, "All the other board games are also shit!".
Except they're not.
I like colonists of catan
I just think you don't like dice.
04:44
nah.
The games are fine and entertaining.
I like Settlers of Catan too.
now there you can see some real player agency in action.
"how can I screw my fellows the most"
04:44
especially where to place your starting settlements.
when to purchase development cards, new settlements, or cities.
I also really like this game called Werewolves, not sure whether you have that where you live
which resources to block with the robber.
@nightcracker Pretty sure that's "Mafia".
Mafia (, also known as Werewolf) is a party game created in the USSR by Dimitry Davidoff in 1986, modelling a conflict between an informed minority (the mafia) and an uninformed majority (the innocents). At the start of the game each player is secretly assigned a role affiliated with one of these teams. The game has two alternating phases: "night," during which the mafia may covertly "murder" an innocent, and "day," in which surviving players debate the identities of the mafiosi and vote to eliminate a suspect. Play continues until all of the mafia has been eliminated, or until the mafia...
@DeadMG yep
@ScottW ?
the evolution of it that I currently enjoy isn't very similar to the description though.
I'm like the best Mafia player ever
04:45
Mafia's boring.
the described variant basically involves "The players repeatedly randomly lynch one of their number and if they're lucky they win else they lose".
which results in me always being dead in the first fkin night before I could do anything
unless I'm wolf, which means I'm dead in the first voting round
the Starcraft 2 variant gives almost every player an active skill.
healing others, investigating them, stuff like that.
@DeadMG I can assure you - there is absolutely NO luck involved unless everyone is playing with sunglasses
@Rapptz I don't have a problem with dice. I do have a problem when the entire game is just "It's dice but we made a fancy board you also have to purchase and made up all this other stuff when it's really just dice".
04:47
@ScottW da's logisch; begrijpelijk; op die manier; etc
as I previously mentioned, Settlers of Catan is a fun board game and that has dice in it.
@DeadMG You use the dice for movement, unless I'm forgetting other uses.
@Rapptz Which controls basically every mechanic in the game.
But yes, movement is the entire "mechanic" if you look at it that way.
I'm guessing you dislike Risk.
The "combat system" revolves around dice too.
eh, not especially.
@Rapptz Right, but the choice of positioning of your armies and where to attack or defend with them is not.
whereas in Monopoly there are virtually zero such elements.
04:50
wtf... power outage...
I actually haven't played Risk in a long time
I kinda want to.
although
Risk does have some flaws of it's own.
particularly, at least in the variant at the time that we had, the player who goes first had a colossal advantage.
@Mysticial what mobo do you have?
@DeadMG do you have hearthstone?
@nightcracker Asus Z87 Plus or something
wat no, are you fucking kidding?
04:52
@DeadMG why would I be kidding?
Not sure how much longer my netbook battery is gonna last.
well
I'm going to venture a guess that about 75% of the purchase price is going to be covering the Warcraft branding on the box.
Power outage. My router is running from the UPS.
@DeadMG it's free
I just shutdown my desktop.
04:53
and secondly, the only board games I play now are with my mother and sister, a housewife and an author.
huh, maybe I got that totally wrong and am talking about my arse on this specific topic.
the only things I actually know about Hearthstone are "Collectible Warcraft-themed card game from Blizzard".
at which point I automatically assumed it would be a giant ripoff and horrendously boring.
it is a free-to-play online collectible card game
you can unlock all card through playing (this takes a long time) or buy cards
the game does provide you with plenty of starting cards though (that are not by any means weak or something)
well, there's no way in hell that I am paying them one single penny.
@DeadMG Don't underestimate it man.
but maybe if it's free.
@DeadMG Hell has it's ways.
@DeadMG it's closed beta ATM though - which is why I asked if you had it
04:57
oh
IDK
god motherboards are the biggest ripoff ever
"oh look, we have a new architecture, I guess this useful modular docking station has to change too so we can sell more of 'em, right?"
no.
@nightcracker Not really. I'm willing to pay for the ones with tons of OC capability.
@Mysticial I mean that they get outdated so quickly
@nightcracker Eh, I don't think so.
motherboards have to cope with some pretty demanding stuff.
04:58
@nightcracker ah. Same with CPUs...
@Mysticial honestly, I have a feeling that outside of instructions interesting only to a specific portion of software CPU's have not improved much over the last few years
@Mysticial Moore's law is dwindling, HARD
@nightcracker It has been since they went muti-core.
Does AMD still throw a million cores to their CPUs
@Rapptz those are called GPUs
hurr
Cute.
05:01
@Mysticial also, uATX isn't as bad as it used to be, right?
@nightcracker Well, the reality is that without quantum computers, we can only perform tasks of a certain complexity.
@DeadMG same goes for with quantum computers
@nightcracker That's just the size of the mobo.
well, right, but they're on a totally different order to non-quantum computers.
FFS
DEJA
VU
05:02
I mean, when you come to simulating a quantum system to understand if your new CPU design is going to work, then you just can't achieve that reasonably on a classical system.
(I have seen this exact conversation before)
(I have this like every month)
yeah, I talked about it with Pawnguy7 a few days ago.
(I know it's not really true, but it's so scary)
@DeadMG no, I mean exact sentences with exact people
Power's back on. bbl. I need to head to the office to power back on my workstation
@nightcracker Well, physically, it seems like time does not actually exist, so logically, there's no reason why you couldn't see the future.
05:04
@DeadMG this once I was at a friends place (an ice cream store), and I knew - before the owner was going to say it - what he was going to say, and this was fkin non-trivial
he asked us to get catfood
HOW ON EARTH COULD I HAVE PREDICTED THAT?!
that shit was downright freaky =/
but I think my mind just thinks it predicted it while I really didn't
Observing your own brain objectively is impossible.
Because observation is a brain activity itself.
I try to be rational about it
but I really can't
so I just stop thinking about it
The only way to prove it is by writing it down before it happens. Preferably with a witness.
And then check how often you are right and how often you are wrong.
05:10
@StackedCrooked I would honestly put hashes of predictions on a write-once CD
or something like that
when I'm looking through hardware reviews:
Hm. CoD removed Search and Destroy
lol?
bye bye large userbase
(not including me)
(not that I am in the userbase, but I never like SD when I was)
@ScottW Clearly I was in the wrong here. I offer you my sincere apologies.
can I apologize too?
I apologize for future harm.
Which there STRIKETHROUGH will ENDSTRIKETHROUGH might be. Much of it.
@ScottW Are you surprised at what you see?
@ScottW wow, we just dived into the deep end didn't we?
05:46
And the power went out again...
goddammit.
poor mysticial
> 1 outage(s) affecting 7155 customer(s)
Cause: PG&E is investigating the cause of your outage.
Status: Assessment in progress
Start Time of Outage: 11/01/2013 10:05:23 PM
Est. Time of Restoration: 11/02/2013 12:30:00 AM
Last Updated: 11/01/2013 10:29:34 PM
fuckkk...
@Mysticial what kind of ram speed should I choose?
At least I knew to take my shower just after the power went out.
If I waited any longer, the water would've gotten cold without power to the water heater.
@nightcracker 1600 is the highest you can go without OC.
The AMD ones will go 1866 or 2133 without OC.
but does it really matter?
05:52
But chances are, you will probably be able to run faster than 1600.
@nightcracker If you're not an enthusiast like me. It probably won't matter.
any brand you recommend (to avoid)?
Stick with the big name stuff.
Don't buy anything with few reviews.
what's this PCR shit
PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600)
I know the 1600 as in MHz
oh pc3
05:57
Doesn't mean much.
It roughly maps to the speed.
ok, two candidates (cost exactly the same, both many reviews 5 stars)
G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL
GeIL Black Dragon GB38GB1333C9DC
thinking about the black dragon just because it looks awesome
G.Skill Ripjaws is what I've had in my Sandy Bridge machine since it was built.
It's solid.
but they look awful :P
these huge flashy red things
05:58
My model is red with fiery heatsinks.
Mine don't look like that.
oh well, if you found them solid I'll take em
Mine look like fire.
05:59
I wasn't able to overclock them though.
Yes. Those are mine!
that one is PC3-10600 (DDR3-1333)
Granted, I didn't try to relax the timings. That probably explains it.
does that mean I should go for the other one?
(which is PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600))
(and cheaper)
Mine is also 1333. 4 x 4GB.
But it's also old.
You an easily get 1600+ now.
Without much extra cost.
yeah it's 1600
it's 2x4 though
would rather have 1x8
06:01
The new ram I have is 4 x 8GB @ 1866. But it's not stable in AMD machines.
Hopefully tomorrow, I'll know whether it's stable on the Haswell machine.
damn
how much did that cost
260 USD
pff
4x4 works just fine if I won't go over 16gigs right?
k I'll go for the G.skill ripjaws then
heard good things about G.skill in general
06:04
This is embarrassing ... saw the potential buyer, but I did not partition the disk so the OS x could not be installed on the hard disk.
Anyways, I'm gonna sleep early since this power isn't coming back on for a while.
And my netbook is gonna run out at some point.
Although technically, the 2 UPS that I have here can probably power the netbook for days.
do you get any university funding for all this gear?
or hard sweaty work?
I always embarrass myself every time I do anything for the first time in the public
My skin grew very thick very fast due to this
06:29
Oo 30 minutes installation, after 15 mins, still needs 30 other mins
I am sitting here with the potential buyer ... must say they are really patient ...
06:50
Guys! I got me some of that clang you're all talkin about! :)
outdated
get 3.4
hmm
chat looks weird in ubuntu
must be the font

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