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00:02
@Jefffrey Looks more like MLP than a woman.
Does anyone know a particle engine with a nice designer?
> Note: this is an early draft. It’s known to be incomplet and incorrekt, and it has lots of bad formatting.
Incorrekt? Are you serious?
Oh, I see what you did there. (incomplet + incorrekt).
it's a joke
00:18
hi
00:37
> As a policy, we try to never resort to implementing things in C. This keeps us honest – we have to make Julia fast enough to allow us to do that. It's better to do everything in the language and be a bit slower until we can make the compiler better and then everything gets fast – system code and user code alike.
Quite the ambitious goal.
What's Julia?
It painted itself as a technical computing language and environment at one point but now I'm not sure.
> Julia is a high-level, high-performance dynamic programming language for technical computing, with syntax that is familiar to users of other technical computing environments.
Mmmh that landing page suggests there have been some changes I haven't tested.
What's the point of declaring a struct member that have 0 bitfields?
Nevermind.
00:52
@Jefffrey Have you come full circle?
@Pawnguy7 Nope. I'm no more working on it. :)
How's your snake?
Um... SQUIRREL!
Hey, look at that.
My autocorrect works with capital letters.
But anyway.
I haven't touched it for a bit because this generation thing.
Why did you stop?
@Jefffrey
@Pawnguy7 Because you kept asking about it.
@Jefffrey True.
lol, jk. That was a test by the way. No "real" project.
00:58
But hey, now you can help me find bugs :D
I'm not sure I'm in the mood these days.
Neither am I. Nasty trees.
11 hours ago, by Pawnguy7
It works fine with 4 layers, but not 5.
I am rather lost.
Does i++ return a copy of the old i? I never remember.
yes
As opposed to?
01:09
What are you referring to?
6 mins ago, by Jefffrey
Does i++ return a copy of the old i? I never remember.
@Pawnguy7 ++i returns a reference to the new value IIRC instead.
Yes.
post- and pre-
01:22
@Jefffrey you use git?
@Pawnguy7 I've used it for a C++ project this year. And for other dead subprojects.
Oh wait, you don't use Visual Studio :\
I have been using it command line.
Was looking into plugins and whatnot.
Some IDEs may include support for facilitated git operations, yeah.
Idea!
You want to hear it, don't you.
01:37
I was remaking this.
So I could show the steps it takes.
What if I made it do that by default?
Set up the steps as std::function list or something.
I don't know what you are talking about.
@Pawnguy7 it what?
@Pawnguy7 that what?
The generator.
And...
Right now, it does it all at once. You only see the final product.
What I could do is, make it advance a step on spacebar release.
Oh, ok.
Why not normal functions?
01:41
@Jefffrey They've been using that disclaimer for years. It was on the paper copy of the committee draft I got back in about 1996 or so, back in the bad old days before you could just download an electronic copy of every draft the day it came out.
@Jefffrey Well, I need to store them in something, and this would be easier way of doing that (as I might have different landscapes).
Can a std::function point to a function identifier?
@JerryCoffin It's funny for me. But I get it that it's redundant for people that have seen it from 1996. Doesn't they allow free download of drafts now?
Ah fail.
I was remaking that blog post now that I can see it.
-and forgot to use the same seed.
@Pawnguy7 Yes.
@Jefffrey Yes, you've been able to download drafts for years now.
01:48
@JerryCoffin Oh, woah. I read that last phrase as: "back in the bad good old days before when you could just download an electronic copy of every draft the day it came out".
What is wrong with me?
Well, good night everybody.
@Jefffrey Most people my age love to wax nostalgic about the past. Despite my age, I'm still fairly excited about what tomorrow's going to bring.
02:08
@JerryCoffin Oh hai :)
@Borgleader Hello.
How are you?
@Borgleader A little pissed at the moment -- I wrote an answer to a question, then the owner deleted the question just before I posted the answer.
@Borgleader Oh well, I guess I should get over it and move on--it was like 5 whole minutes ago already. :-)
02:13
@JerryCoffin Don't worry with that memory of yours you'll forget all about it in around... oh 2 min from now ;)
@Borgleader Forget about what?
02:29
Sigh.
Stupid code, why don't you work.
I would ask on SO, but it is too localized.
02:51
@Pawnguy7 "Too localized" is no longer a reason to close on SO (though "please debug my code" types of questions rarely accomplish much).
@JerryCoffin I am starting to think it is a library issue.
Apparently SFML's texture.
Has a texture rect.
For tilemaps and such things.
Apparently, resetting the texture does not reset the rectangle.
I really thought setTexture, well, set the texture.
I looked everywhere but that.
@Pawnguy7 I suppose it (sort of makes sense) that the rectangle wouldn't necessarily cover the entire texture (e.g., to support texture atlases), but it certainly seems like it would be the default...
Well, it defaulty does.
But, it does not defaultly resize when you set a different texture.
I have no idea why.
I now see why default parameters can be sneaky :D
All this time I have used this function, and I never knew it existed.
They redid the tutorials?
02:58
A very long time ago.
Ah. Looks nice.
Here is my prize:
Night.
See ya.
@Pawnguy7 Congrats and G'night.
03:26
Are they trees or arrows or you are using arrows as trees
@Telkitty猫咪咪 I think they're supposed to be (vaguely like) evergreen trees.
So I couldn't connect to Google. Why...
Hello all, it's been a long absence.
Bin sick lately. :P
yoyo :p
Maybe we could have a room called 'Sick' and bin all the conversations that sound some what sick there :p
03:38
@Telkitty猫咪咪 lol. Then all of DeadMG's posts would be moved there. :P
One sick user moved to the bin
@MarkGarcia tru tru :p
03:54
By the time #Ryse ships for #XboxOne, we will have served the crunching team more than 11,500 dinners throughout development. #RyseFacts
Ryse confirmed for shitty game dev culture.
I'm bored
:(
hello
@Chris Hello.
@JerryCoffin sup
@Chris Probably need to quit chatting and get some work done soon, but that's about it.
yeah i came in here to get some help with school work :/
04:08
Not really the right place.
where would that place be?
yeah mean like ask a question
There's a big "Ask Question" button there.
hehe :)
04:44
Hay fever + smoke from the bush fires around = red eyes + running nose
@ScottW lol
@ScottW Did you start on that?
Woo, I'm back to using three displays.
Congrats
05:03
tmux on one monitor, multi-tabbed browser on the other. There's obviously never enough screen real estate.
I'll probably use a tabbed gvim and a tmux in tandem at some point, too!
Is it a GCC thing that I don't have to do function<>(args)? It compiles doing function(args).
Vexing parse?
It also works as I expect it, so it's a bit weird.
It's not valid right?
Give context.
I'll give a short example
05:15
Ya that's deducible.
Neat.
<> with functions looks ugly anyway
We used to do that for enable_if/EnableIf before switching to non-type parameters, and it's spread across the community. E.g. libstdc++ uses that a lot nowadays.
Does anyone else look at the chick in my avatar and think of chicken breasts fillets?
Meh, this'll take ages to clone. Time to go to the baker's.
hello
Fooly Cooly?
yep
06:00
crazy anime
a little:3
@Rapptz With a function template, empty angle brackets are never needed. The only reason to include the angle brackets at all is if you need to explicitly specify a template parameter.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Something I've been meaning to ask, with the rule of zero you encapsulate ownership with the current ownership policies provided by the standard (i.e. std::unique_ptr and std::shared_ptr) but there's nothing there that allows for unique ownership with copy semantics. Currently the only solution for that is to have a form of value_ptr or something but that doesn't exactly help for the average user (or well, so I believe).
I guess there's no actual question, just sharing that there needs to be another form of smart pointer (that isn't auto_ptr).
Or maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.
06:16
I just compiled my first binary that uses AVX2. But I can't test it. :(
And I won't be able to for a while... since I'm not building the machine yet.
Fun. It's like the old days.
So what's it like working for Google?
Lots of videos.
old days when you were young, nowadays, you are old & today is not
06:48
typical
finish downloading 20GB of BF3 -> neglected to mention the 15GB of DLC you have to download afterwards.
@Rapptz The average user should be able to handle creating a value_ptr.
Doubt it.
well, it's little more than "Forward everything to unique_ptr, but add copy constructor".
Obviously.
Ell
Ell
Howcome its not in the standard
although I guess that strictly, value_ptr would need the whole allocator shebang
compared to unique_ptr which only needs a deleter.
@Ell Because nobody gave a shit sufficient to make a paper about it.
Ell
Ell
06:57
Boost doesn't have value_ptr iirc
Does it?
@DeadMG Walter Bright did.
@DeadMG Robot's value_ptr accepts a deleter and a copy policy.
Oo we have a pollen forecast here too
sweet
apparently the pollen forecast for the coming Sunday is: extreme
Maybe I should hit the beach with my macbook air
too much plantations around where I live ... I am going to die from hay fever :'(
It was awful on the way to the office - smoke & pollen made my nose running and eyes itchy
@Rapptz Then the Committee obviously didn't care enough to accept it
pripeklooo
07:14
The day looks cloudy ... from the bush fire smoke ...
@FLCL I approve of this
user1804599
I think it’s mere bullshit.
Of course.
And good morning
user1804599
I forgot what σ meant.
@Rapptz Erm. "unique ownership with copy semantics" - wouldn't that just be value semantics? Maybe you meant "value semantics with runtime polymorphic behaviour"?
@not-rightfold sigma?
07:18
hola
lita
@sehe Not exactly. Consider the behaviour of non-owning pointers to the object.
user1804599
@sehe that’s the name of the symbol.
@DeadMG done considering, what did you want me to consider about that (other than that it's irrelevant because decidedly non-unique aaaand non-copying?)
user1804599
“What does “potato” mean?”
“P O T A T O”
07:20
@not-rightfold Standard deviation.
user1804599
@Rapptz Wrong branch.
user1804599
Ah, it means selection.
@sehe What I mean is that it's clearly not the same between having a value and having unique ownership with copy semantics.
@not-rightfold you should mention a context, silly. Without context, it's just ... sigma
user1804599
You can infer the context from my interests.
07:20
@DeadMG can you give an example where they differ?
<troll/>
@DeadMG I can store a raw pointer to any value, because it's not possible to prevent taking the address of a lvalue, so I don't see how a 'magic_ptr' with the supposed qualities change this?
(indeed, an example would possibly enlighten me)
From the context you can infer what I meant :|
Aaah, work feels a lot more manageable after 10 hours of sleep
Why are you arguing semantics
@sehe Obviously, because if you do T f() { T t; store(&t); return t; } then &t is now useless to you. If you do value_ptr<T> f() { value_ptr<T> t; store(t.get()); return t; } then it's still valid.
07:24
@DeadMG that's just a silly example
both are about value semantics, but the first has scope-bound lifetime
not the same thing
well, it's completely the same thing.
BOOST_HAS_INT64_T is a red herring: it is only found inside one header, where it's unconditionally being defined immediately before being used. It is by definition always defined in all sources that "depend" on it. — sehe 6 secs ago
Arguably you can't rely on that if you consider CopyConstructible the concept and not CopyConstructible the syntactical requirement. (I'm just quibbling about concepts beyond concept-lite, not making a point of anything.)
Then again, iterator invalidation rules. Mmh.
@DeadMG How does unique_ptr not fit this bill, but better? Is it just about making it non-nullable then?
07:28
those LinkedIn people aren't very good with computers
@sehe unique_ptr isn't copyable. If you want a copyable class based on copying that T, you can't use rule of zero with unique_ptr.
@DeadMG What's wrong with just composing T directly? Rule of zero, pronto.
@sehe As I just said, you don't get the same semantics w.r.t. addressing that object.
also no polymorphic semantics, which value_ptr<T> could offer.
I used to think I might use my clone_ptr to do type-erasure Adobe-style but now I have my own Boost.TypeErasure.
@DeadMG well, that's got little to do with ownership nor copying, IYAM; only with storage.
@DeadMG And that was exactly the point I was making at the very start, which you responded to in the first place...
07:35
Okay well. I meant value semantics, given the obvious name of value_ptr.
Values are unbeatable in the "value semantics" department
Slicing.
He addressed all that.
@Rapptz So, a simple yes would have been enough when i asked
@sehe they're just so valuable!
07:36
You should have said 'yes' from the start.
07:48
newbies incoming
oho 1 rep block.
I only discovered chat when I was above 1k, I think
I can't find Robot's value_ptr anyways :(
/cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
@Rapptz Oh, so he cleaned it right out of his repo then... I'm still getting confused why he keeps different versions on github/bitbucket (same for ogonek, a while back IIRC)
Don't know.
> From time to time I contribute to open-source projects, and I also have a few of my own. The most active ones can be found on my GitHub profile.
07:58
Github doesn't have his value_ptr
I originally knew about it through this though
ergh... I wish leaving my work computer on overnight would no result in me coming in to a list of pings which I may or may not already read at home ¬_¬
@thecoshman just close a browser tab
ugh I've cloned msm google repo, it downloaded 800MiB of data, and the folder is empty :/
lol
08:03
bajtek@bajtek-ivb-dt:~/msm$ git log
commit f688a7654b339885e689d0f95f38b9daa3d85c0f
Author: Jean-Baptiste Queru <[email protected]>
Date:   Thu Nov 17 12:44:41 2011 -0800

    empty commit
bajtek@bajtek-ivb-dt:~/msm$ git branch
* master
bajtek@bajtek-ivb-dt:~/msm$ ls
bajtek@bajtek-ivb-dt:~/msm$
@sehe but then I have to reopen it
> The msm project has the sources for ADP1, ADP2, Nexus One, Nexus 4, and can be used as a starting point for work on Qualcomm MSM chipsets.
... my ass -.-
@thecoshman insurance
@sehe Storage and ownership are usually pretty closely related.
@BartekBanachewicz that's quite common, really - you mean is there no history beyond the initial commit?
@DeadMG hrrrm? Non-owning pointers don't care where their target is. Conversely when you own a value, it doesn't matter how oft you move the storage around
08:14
@thecoshman you'd either have to get rid of the pings or click that one bookmark to reopen the chat. Choose.
@sehe They do if it's gonna go out of scope.
also, owning pointers are kinda important and common things.
@sehe found it! branch -a :S
@DeadMG Nothing to do with storage, everything to do with ownership
@BartekBanachewicz lol
@DeadMG I know. That doesn't mean that ownership and storage semantics are necessarily intertwined
well
you don't need to own automatic storage or static storage objects.
you also don't need to own dynamic storage objects whose lifetime you know in advance will be longer than you need to reference them.
so of course they are intertwined.
ownership is only useful to control some storage semantics.
@BartekBanachewicz oh dear me
08:19
I disagree. An automatic variable is implicitely owned, still owned. It's owned by the enclosing scope. Closures, anyone (yes, rather static ones, but still)
he he he
TL;DF
@sehe You don't need to own them. The point is the same- programmer ownership is only useful when the storage of the object might otherwise be destroyed whilst you still need it.
@ScottW They've not reported for duty
@DeadMG Still disagree. You still need to own them. You just don't have to write any code to do so. Gee, reminds me of RAII. Maybe, because it's exactly the same mechanism
no, I don't need to own them, the compiler owns them.
08:25
@ScottW nah. They'd shoot out giant flying saucers from the sky. I've seen that before...
and I definitely don't need to own them if they don't own any dynamically-allocated resources.
I think it's very useful to not think of automatic variables (objects, really) as special. Because it blinds you for the ownership semantics that play a role there too
@DeadMG The compiler owns nothing. Your program summons contexts that own the resources.
where the context-summoning code, the owning code, the context-leaving code, and pretty much all of it is arranged by the compiler.
user1804599
@thecoshman lol
Arranged != logically owned
Anyways, I'm happy to disagree. It's come down to a philosophical point. I can see how you wish to "not see behind the screen" as a matter of simplicity. Automatic stuff is just "arranged". I like to see it as "implicitely owned". Because, well, I prefer that.
It helps my mental model. I think it has merit. You don't. I'm okay with that.
08:31
oh thank god only 120 MB more
I wonder why google keeps binaries in Git
also
> In many languages, oranges are, implicitly or explicitly, referred to as a type of apple, specifically a golden apple or a Chinese apple (confer hesperidium). For example, the Greek χρυσόμηλον (chrysomelon) and Latin pomum aurantium both literally describe oranges as golden apples.
orange is also a colour
@Telkitty猫咪咪 orly?
the orange cat
is a cat of orange colour
not a sub type of orange that looks like a cat
@Telkitty猫咪咪 wouldn't that be a cat orange? The "Orange Cat" would be a cat that looks like, or grows, or eats oranges
-4
A: template and macro in C++

SvenSIn Short: Templates are evaluated at runtime (when the program is run), but anything starting with # is a pre- processor statement and is evaluated right before the code is compiled. I hope you see that these two can't mix the way you intended. In your example you are comparing the string Signal...

08:38
@Rapptz Well, the point is that if you need something that isn't provided elsewhere you still should not mix it with other stuff.
bah, the first sentence is descriptive enough.
@BartekBanachewicz lol
> You have another problem here as you haven't understood templates at all, but that's for you to reasearch ;)
that's great
yeah
welp the guy fixed it
@Bartek your comment was very rude
@LightnessRacesinOrbit was it?
08:43
@sehe I like C++03. I've just about never liked C++11.
@BartekBanachewicz yes
> I don't know where do you get your information from, but it should be burninated to the ground. I'd -100 if I could for spreading blatant disinformation.
I don't like C++03, but I like C++11 a lot.
Compare with the friendly and constructive:
> Templates are very much evaluated (instantiated) at compile time.
The guy just made a simple brainfart mistake, but instead you assumed that he was a member of the C++ Al-Qaeda
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you've got a point. Removed. And I took my downvote from the Q when he fixed it.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I probably wouldn't write that if not for his last sentence
actually someone asked a good Q in today
woo someone is coding in HsGL
08:47
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Fighting the C++ Al-Qaeda [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [no-questions]
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Wow. That's a surprise reversal. I'll have to mull that over before I can confidently declare you insane :/
@sehe he dislikes auto
like, y'know, Java guys
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz He also dislikes &&.
Those are two very simplistic statements. You should know better
Xeo
Xeo
And tbh, I'm partly with him on that. "universal" references should've gotten their own symbol-or-something.
I don't like that people have to learn about lvalues and rvalues and they should not have to care; the universal reference stuff just makes that worse because it means they have to care more
Xeo
Xeo
I don't care what, just something.
Oo partly not party
and auto is already popping up all over SO as "a type" according to newbies who are starting to use C++11; plus it turns C++ into more of a scripting language and this is harmful by default
@Rapptz Sigh, "the crunching team".
Xeo
Xeo
08:54
Wait, what. Crunching through the whole dev-time?
@Rapptz lol
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Define "scripting language"
@Xeo No, just a single team dedicated for all projects that require crunching.
"Oooh. Dead line looming. Let's call in the Crunching Team!"
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lolwut?
Sounds a bit like someone who's worried that C++ might become less expert-friendly
08:57
@sehe It's the guys holding the whips.
@sehe That's the one.
C++11 simultaneously makes C++ less expert-friendly (with auto) and more expert-requisite (with knowledge required of lvalues/rvalues and their contextual rules, not to mention lambda capture rules). It's weird.
It's like she doesn't really know who to be anymore
C++ gender identity crisis?
Why does auto hurt experts?
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yes, lambda captures are really complicated. Sure.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because it sets a precedent of "oh, let me do that for you"
Xeo
Xeo
wtf

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