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8:02 PM
@Xeo Hmmm, good point.
 
@melak47 Already got it, sorry.
 
sure
 
@EtiennedeMartel cough Media Hint cough
 
@ctor What does eclipse do? Netbeans simply runs/debugs yet another instance.
 
It tries to re-compile the project but it can't because it can't open the executable for writing
 
8:05 PM
@ctor I don't think so, when I hit teh debug button in VS, that button goes away
@ctor still better than netbeans
 
@MooingDuck likewise
 
@Pawnguy7 I suppose I could alter the toolbar to make it not do that and see what happens....
 
@MooingDuck I wouldn't know how to do that either, but I instinctively stop before changing any code, so I am fine.
 
@DeadMG do I have you on steam?
 
@Pawnguy7 I don't, but then I go to hit the go button and it's not there, and so I hit stop. (or edit/resume)
 
8:10 PM
grar. This question is either really hard or I am incredibly retarded.
Probably both
 
@MooingDuck I probably have done that a few times, but several things I have made rendered as fast as possible, so it was better to close them anyway. Or make them stop playing sounds, either works.
Though perhaps best, if possible, is to stop it by terminating the program itself in the standard fashion.
 
@Pawnguy7 I have carefully designed my program so that nothing goes wrong if I terminate it randomly. This as a side-effect ensures that it will also handle exceptions, kills, and crashes properly.
 
@ctor windows or Linux?
 
With one exception, there's one spot where it renames several files and I terminate there then the files are effectively corrupted because they're interdependent.
 
@A.H. Windows
 
8:15 PM
@A.H. sounds like Windows, I don't think linux has that problem
 
@A.H. Clearly not Linux.
 
@ctor I just tested. In MSVC2012, the run button is greyed out while running.
 
Linux lets you overwrite the executable just fine while it is running. It doesn't change the running process in any way, but the executable is not needed..
 
@MooingDuck Ah. In my case, what I am doing is quite simple, so in most cases, cleanup is either easy or nonexistent altogether.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how goes ogonek?
 
8:16 PM
@MooingDuck right
 
@Borgleader I'm hoping to get some free time in the near future to make a big push forward.
 
Cool :)
You done refactoring?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes What if you have a whole bunch of data embedded in the exe? That won't be loaded into RAM at once, no?
 
@Xeo Probably not. It's mmapped.
 
Xeo
so I guess it keeps the started exe around somehow?
 
8:19 PM
But overwriting the executable doesn't destroy that data.
@Xeo Yes.
 
@Xeo copy on write probably
actually, that's an interesting thought, because that pretty much forces the OS to read the original file into memory so that it can overwrite the copy on disk.
 
@MooingDuck Erm, no?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes why no?
 
Just make "overwriting" be writing an entirely new file.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh. "rename" the old one to a "delete when unused" folder and write the new one. Makes sense.
 
8:21 PM
@MooingDuck Yeah, except you can just forget the name and hold an unnamed link on the process (the mmapping).
 
I don't know enough about how hard drive drivers work to know how complicated that would be
because it has to recall that that region is in use until the mmap is done
 
Creating an unnamed filesystem node should be just like any other node, except there's no way to get to it unless you have it already.
 
Time for CS class.
Any game suggestions?
 
Or some hardcore filesystem API thing.
 
@chris beer pong
 
8:26 PM
@chris listen to the teacher and ace the class
:P
 
Too much newbieness in class.
But I still listen, yeah.
 
so I accidentally checked in code from one of my SO answers akin to template<class T> T foo() noexcept {return std::numeric_limits<T>::min();}without testing it locally to MSVC 2012. 909 errors in our nightly build from that alone :(
 
@melak47 I'm in the Lounge<C++> group.
 
@chris class about what?
 
@MooingDuck ouch
 
8:35 PM
@DeadMG Aren't bananas radioactive or something?
 
@FredOverflow Yep.
 
@FredOverflow Basic C.
 
@FredOverflow Wikipedia implies it's nuclear radiation, but doesn't say so clearly. Is it actually nuclear radiation?
 
I must admit I like the text.
It has notifications of C89 vs C99 and is very pedantic.
I never know what's C89 and C99 since I don't use C, so I can skim through and find those.
 
@MooingDuck natural radiation
 
8:40 PM
@MooingDuck you ... accidentally checkin SO code? how does that even
 
you are radioactive aswell
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck wow
 
@A.H. WTF is natural radiation? <goes to wikipedia>
@sehe specifically, I forgot to test.
 
@MooingDuck Radiation that occurs naturally.
lots of naturally-occurring isotopes and stuff are radioactive and there's a normal background count of radiation coming from the Earth
 
Man, I keep getting lost in math on Wikipedia
I haven't even been on Reddit today.
 
8:46 PM
54 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Eating radioactive stuff is usually a bad idea.
Slowpoke.
 
"Radioactivity was discovered by Abel Niepce de Saint-Victor in 1857. But it was not publicised in a good way and was soon forgotten."
 
@MooingDuck What's "nuclear radiation"?
 
@CatPlusPlus man I have no idea
 
> Radiation is energy that comes from a source and travels through some material or through space. Light, heat and sound are types of radiation.
> Nuclear: Denoting, relating to, or powered by the energy released in nuclear fission or fusion.
 
Xeo
8:51 PM
> * Unless it's a bananaphone
lol
 
"Radiation" usually refers to γ-radiation.
 
that's a type of radiation
not radiation in general.
 
hey guys, only 3 more classes til I finish my major. Then will I be one of you guys?
 
More general it's ionizing radiation, so light/heat/sound is still irrelevant. :v
 
we just forked at work, so I'm trying to get boost into the new fork. Boss wants me to "explain what I'd like to use from the boost library".
 
8:52 PM
if you say "nuclear radiation"', it probably denotes the meaning of radiation I pasted above, more than than gamma-radiation
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck EVERYTHING
Print it in bold, big letters and pin it on your boss' desk
 
Now I understand why Soraka's attacks deal damage.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck (do you guys have C++11 available?)
 
γ is the most dangerous one.
 
Yes
@EtiennedeMartel oh LoL
 
8:54 PM
@Xeo MSVC 2012, so some. However, I rather think few people here have heard of it. (Luckily, my new boss has, he's actually on top of things)
 
Xeo
:(
 
fuck.
surgery please.
 
@TonyTheLion Soraka shoots things that look like bananas, you know.
 
Xeo
The C++ guys at my workplace are all really enthusiastic about C++11/14 and Boost
 
I've been writing a lot of C# lately, and I can't say that I've C++ much
C# just makes everything so easy.
 
8:54 PM
@Xeo Same here. But we're stuck with CrossBridge.
 
Lots of trivial things in C# become non-trivial in C++
 
C# is nice and smooth, if you're only doing simple things.
 
Xeo
I just hope 2013 is either a free or very cheap upgrade :(
 
but after that it becomes fucking annoying
 
Not really, no.
 
8:55 PM
like shitty generics, every-fuckin-thing gotta be a class and shit like that
 
I don't like the no free functions thing
 
Even approaching the level of annoying C++ produces for anything is really damn hard.
 
@Xeo I just had a coworker ask me what boost was.
 
yeah- where C++ makes it annoying, C# just makes it impossible.
 
The problem with C++ is that it requires you to know a lot of gritty detail before you can do anything remotely useful
 
8:57 PM
Not really, no.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck My condolences.
 
I think us Loungers are the most up to date knowledgeable programmers. I have met so many IRL programmers that have no idea about the latest technologies
Lots of the C++ folk I've worked with hadn't ever even looked at C++11
 
@DeadMG C# isn't glorified C++.
Stop trying to solve problems in C# like you would in C++.
 
@EtiennedeMartel You're right, it's considerably worse.
 
Xeo
Don't try to compare C# and C++, problem solved!
 
8:59 PM
They both have the letter C in the name
 
lol
 
It's like you never tried to even like C#.
 
I like C#.
and I like C++
 
well, I don't like C#, because every time I come to do any non-trivial thing in it, I run right up against the shitty limitations like poor generics and such.
 
@DeadMG When you suck, blame your tools.
 
9:00 PM
:)
 
I never encountered any of those "limitations". So either you're bad, or you never really tried.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Feel free to build a house with your bare hands instead of the tools a modern builder uses.
 
To me, sounds like a case of "fuck it, back to C++".
@DeadMG Did you seriously do that analogy?
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Or maybe you're just not doing the same kind of stuff
 
@EtiennedeMartel he's probably accidentally trying to code C++ with it. I noticed I do it all the time on accident in Java
 
9:01 PM
@Xeo Perhaps.
@MooingDuck I think it's not accidental.
 
He's probably trying to use Templates in C#
and that don't fly.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Of course I did.
 
Hey @CatPlusPlus, puppy just said C++ is more "modern" than C#.
(whatever that means)
 
it's patently ridiculous that any person could construct a modern house with their bare hands.
 
ahahahahaha
 
9:02 PM
What do I care
Have fun
 
@EtiennedeMartel Nice straw man, but I didn't.
 
Xeo
I hope I'm not the only one that finds these language wars unproductive?
 
@CatPlusPlus Do you even remember the last time you cared?
 
@DeadMG Even then your points are weird.
 
I mean writing anything in C++ is :suicide: but hey.
 
9:02 PM
That's like saying C++ is bad because it doesn't have proper reflection support or garbage collection.
 
@Xeo I unintentionally started it. :(
 
@TonyTheLion I'm trying hard to stop caring about irrelevant shit.
 
we should all use Java it compiles to bytecode that can run on any JVM anywhere !!!
 
@A.H. "Write once, debug anywhere"
 
@CatPlusPlus Yea I can see that. Of course "irrelevant" is dependent on what view you hold.
 
9:03 PM
Like if someone can't write C# or Haskell or whatever.
 
@CatPlusPlus Puppy can't write C#.
 
Or programming in general.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, I would argue that templates being far better than generics is more useful than reflection. However, I certainly would like reflection and anyone who claimed that C++ was bad because it didn't have reflection, I would sympathise with that position.
 
user1804599
I just went to a fireworks show.
 
user1804599
Tomorrow another one.
 
9:04 PM
Nice
 
@DeadMG I'm really starting to think that your main issue is that C# isn't like C++.
Of course it isn't, they're different tools made for solving different problems.
 
I mean, I don't have to use C++, why should I care if other people like being masochists. vOv
 
user1804599
@EtiennedeMartel That's his issue with every non-C++-non-Wide language.
 
Don't try fitting a round peg in a square hole.
 
but square pegs
 
9:05 PM
Sure, generics are not as good as templates. Doesn't you mean you can't do anything with them.
 
I have a round hole, and from where I'm standing, practically every hole is round.
 
And lack of templates doesn't mean you can't solve problems.
 
so of course a square peg is not going to be of much use to me.
 
@DeadMG You have a very good reality distortion field.
 
user1804599
@DeadMG That's good. I like round holes. :3
 
9:05 PM
@EtiennedeMartel No, but it does often mean that the solution is decidedly inferior.
 
@DeadMG That's the issue you see, not all holes are round. There's some square ones, and maybe some triangular ones, and you're missing out on those.
 
@TonyTheLion Actually, I came across a place just today where I would have liked to use garbage collection.
 
@DeadMG Define "inferior".
 
@EtiennedeMartel Is that the term they used about Jobs?
 
@DeadMG I'm afraid that the day you start working you will find yourself surrounded by code that is inferior is some way or another, and that you will have to just accept that this is a fact of life.
 
Xeo
9:07 PM
@DeadMG Maybe the C++-solution-in-C# is, and maybe you just need to rethink your solution. Care to give an example?
 
@DeadMG Can you collect my garbage? :P
 
@TonyTheLion Indeed. There is a big difference between "Some things must be inferior" and "LOL LET'S GO MAKE EVERYTHING INFERIOR FOR FUN".
 
@Xeo Good point. I don't recall him ever giving an example.
 
You're in this room
Basically always.
You care
5
 
Inferior can be fun
@sehe NAILED IT.
 
9:08 PM
@Xeo Ok, here's a simple example.
 
@sehe Yeah, Cat is one of those wounded idealists who's trying really hard to maintain an façade of cynicism.
 
Goes with the territory
 
in the Wide parser, I use some functions for parsing the tokens, and I have a compile-time interface for a class that builds the AST
 
@EtiennedeMartel I lost my cynicism by getting a new job. Now I'm happy again and I like programming again.
 
@TonyTheLion Told you.
 
9:09 PM
I know, I was bad at starting to look for a job.
 
@TonyTheLion What does your new job involve?
 
Apparently in C89, the minimum length of a string literal is 509.
 
if I have a template, then that compile-time interface can be properly typed- i.e., there is no loss of type information.
 
@sehe programming
 
duh
 
Xeo
9:09 PM
@TonyTheLion Sounds good
 
And 4095 in C99 for whatever reason.
 
if I have an interface, even using generics, I can't define it to be strongly typed. I can only define my interface in terms of pre-defined base classes.
 
Compile time? Oh, so it is a case of "C++ in C#".
 
Xeo
@chris minimum?
 
I hope you mean maximum, otherwise that makes no sense.
 
9:10 PM
Move along people, we have a fanboy.
 
~performance~
 
@TonyTheLion What kind.
 
@sehe backend data stuffs for technical analysis (finance) software
a mix of C++ and C#
 
what the fuck, dude
 
@TonyTheLion oh sounds nice
 
9:10 PM
you could have at least waited for me to finish
and if you don't like type information go program in Javascript or something.
 
@DeadMG I have better type information in C# than in C++.
 
fact is, using a template maintains type information where using a crappy interface loses it.
 
@Xeo Minimum required to be supported as a maximum length by the compiler.
 
@EtiennedeMartel not really fair is it.
 
@sehe I'm never fair.
 
9:11 PM
@EtiennedeMartel You have different type information
 
and I like my type information, which is a pretty logical and sane thing to do.
 
C# generics don't lose type information.
 
I'm like this giant asshole.
 
@sehe Yeah, I really like it.
 
And there's something else I didn't know. #define ADD(x,y) x+y and doing ADD(,5) will be +5.
 
9:11 PM
@TonyTheLion I guess the pay is better than what you could get here.
Aaaanyway, these days I'm mostly messing with MEF. And you can't that in C++.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I have no idea about Canada wages vs cost of living
 
eh
 
@TonyTheLion It's mostly a finance vs game issue.
 
MEF is OK, but it's hardly great.
way too much string typing going on
 
MEH.
Windsor owns.
 
9:12 PM
@DeadMG Only if you don't know about this thing called typeof.
 
@EtiennedeMartel oh right, that's what you mean. Yes, I think so is my answer.
 
@TonyTheLion however, how's living with arbitrary roundoff problems and strange requirements (the algorithm needs to have the exact same outcome as Legacy Module X (including bugs), Fiscal Authority Y, Automatic Trading System Z?)
 
@CatPlusPlus Right, that's what I wanted to ask you.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yep, and I'll go alter all the Microsoft APIs to take Type objects instead of strings now shall I?
 
@DeadMG Which are you talking about?
 
9:13 PM
@sehe I don't think I've been in this job long enough yet to come across this issue. But I'm sure its on the horizon.
 
What is Windsor's advantage over MEF?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Let me just open my extension and I'll describe it to you
 
user1804599
It has a cooler name.
 
user1804599
Especially if you prefix it with “Castle”.
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel It sounds cooler?
 
9:14 PM
@DeadMG Oh, wait, you mean VS stuff? But that isn't really a MEF issue.
 
Xeo
That's a pretty big point, if you ask me
 
@TonyTheLion If you're lucky, that's being managed for you. Do you ever see the traders/users? I've been on the dealing room floor for about a year. These guys make you feel their pain :)
 
When I define MEF contracts, I don't fuck around with strings.
 
@not-rightfold suffix?
 
I don't know MEF.
 
9:15 PM
well, I have to admit that I thought that MEF was a VS-specific thing.
 
user1804599
@sehe “Windsor Castle” sounds silly.
 
@DeadMG It ships with .NET since v4.0.
 
@sehe I have never been on a trading floor, however I've watched some documentaries about it (to get a feel for the industry, etc) and its pretty crazy from what I see. Also, I can imagine them being picky, you're dealing with money after all.
 
Really? I bet "Tales Canterbury" sounds awesome too
 
9:15 PM
in which case I will grant you that it's technically possible that MEF doesn't suck and Microsoft simply suck.
 
I don't deal with users personally
 
@DeadMG Then again, MEF is .NET, so it's not really a C# thing.
 
@TonyTheLion they are. Really impatient folks.
 
@CatPlusPlus You should check it out. It's what we use for dependency injection at work.
 
@sehe oh I fit right in then. Hahah
 
9:16 PM
I've heard MEF is not really an IoC container.
Looking at the docs it looks chatty, with attributes and stuff.
 
hmm, boost was denied because "It doesn't sound like we actually need it right now, and we don't want to add it for the sake of adding it. We want a real need for it."
 
user1804599
fuck fuck fuck shit fuck.
 
@TonyTheLion That's probably for the best. Our RABO team had a division in london doing what was known as "Quark" back then - perhaps you've heard of it?
 
user1804599
I committed with LF. :<
 
@not-rightfold ok ok ok nope ok.
 
user1804599
9:17 PM
Shebang y u no CRLF.
 
@sehe Not heard of Quark. Is it a type of trading or a piece of software?
 
@CatPlusPlus You put an Export somewhere, and you put an Import somewhere, and bam bam.
 
@EtiennedeMartel With Windsor I just use constructor arguments.
 
I've heard of Quant though. (quantitative analysis)
 
Anyway, do you plan to use Windsor in LoungeChat?
 
9:17 PM
@MooingDuck Hah. My new jobs doesn't have this kind of problem. On the flipside, I'm going to have to call the shots. And I have to make pretty darn sure I can get it to port to all platforms (Linux/Mac/Windows, Android+iOS)
 
Xeo
@not-rightfold Zoid-World-Problems
 
user1804599
@EtiennedeMartel already do :v
 
@not-rightfold Figured as much for the logging stuff.
 
@TonyTheLion Nah, different thing then
 
user1804599
9:18 PM
@Xeo Hey. Those guys in the third world have no computers, so they're lucky since they'll never have this problem.
 
user1804599
The client uses DI but no IoC. vOv
 
@TonyTheLion It was a library for financial calc (probably specializing in derivatives, equities, bonds)
 
@CatPlusPlus Oooh, fluent interface.
 
@sehe Oh nice.
 
9:20 PM
I haven't worked on that. I just remembered that and the fact that they were london based. Guess different banks don't really share knowledge in the field
 
@not-rightfold Oh you.
 
No XML savagery.
 
user1804599
I want to write my code on papyrus. No more line-ending shit.
 
@sehe So how did you end up on the trading floor for a year then?
 
You'd be doing CRLF with your hand.
 
9:21 PM
@CatPlusPlus Reminds me of when Fluent NHibernate came out.
I was like "finally, ORM without XML".
 
@TonyTheLion consultancy/"detachering"
 
@sehe oh I see. Cool.
 
@CatPlusPlus Holy shit, mark my words, one day I will hug you.
 
Yeah, I might be going to miss that aspect of my "old" job: the variety of clients and places
 
9:23 PM
I still have to figure out how to map custom types with automapping.
Probably something in that config class.
 
anyway, off to bed
 
Sleep well
 
@TonyTheLion he's sad, one toddler tasted like more!
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus PostgreSQL OMG OMG OMG
 
9:28 PM
Wow, sealed classes.
 
Ell
Can you mokey patch in c#?
 
... (a) yes (b) do tell what it is
^ lol; so much nicer when inverted
> I sense much fear in you
> I fear much sense in you
 
@sehe Dat backbuffer.
 
@sehe I see.
 
Ell
9:38 PM
Monkey patching is opening a class and modifying it after it has already been defined once
 
Also, LoungeChat has a factory in it.
 
Ell
Iirc its some required boilerplate?
 
...
 
sehe what is this from?
 
@EtiennedeMartel A factory OF GOOD CODE (i.e. me (not really))
 
9:45 PM
@CatPlusPlus Right.
So, this intern left me some code.
And I need to change something in it.
Except it's not working, and I don't understand how it used to work.
 
has anyone ever got scons to work with netbeans?
 
user1804599
No.
 
has anyone ever gotten food to work with my stomach
 
user1804599
Neither.
 
define works, just because it comes back out again doesn't mean the system doesn't work
 
9:49 PM
yes, it definitely does.
 
user1804599
T1me to sl33p.
 
@not-rightfold You have a Steam account or something?
 
slthirtythreep?
 
I need you to talk with ThePhD about the client, so you don't do the same stuff twice.
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus daknok
 
user1804599
9:50 PM
I do all the browser stuff.
 
user1804599
Also why isn't that fucker here.
 
Ell
@deadmg can you eat vitamin supplements for example? That way at least you won't be malnourished
 
user1804599
I thought he did auth.
 
I can nourish myself with whatever I want, as long as I'm happy to accept being in horrible pain for hours afterwards
 
Ell
Right
 
9:52 PM
Coordinating people who don't talk to each other is fun
He started working on WebSockets listener.
 
@CatPlusPlus The fact that he brutally left without leaving a way to contact him is a bit le sad.
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Fine.
 
user1804599
As long as he doesn't work on the browser-side WebSocket stuff, since he doesn't have the interface unless he forks from my frok. :V
 
@DeadMG well at least you have an appointment soon , right ?
 
9:54 PM
@not-rightfold You can pull/push between forks.
 
user1804599
I'll wait till the WebSocket server works and until then I'll use dummy data generators.
 
> And if nothing can be done, / we'll make the best of what's around
 
user1804599
Otherwise the protocol changes all the time and it's not fun.
 
There's no protocol yet, so it's going to change anyway. :v
 
Everything will blow up all the time.
Continuously.
 
9:56 PM
Hey, this is not Stargate.
 
Lock that chevron.
 
user1804599
I bet ThePhD is going to use unsafe all over the place. And cast pointers.
 
Don't tell him that's possible
 
user1804599
Disable unsafe mode woop.
 
user1804599
Ik ga slapen lieverds.
 
user1804599
9:58 PM
Kusjes.
 
Xeo
@not-rightfold He's still working on LoungeChat?
 
user1804599
I don't know.
 
user1804599
I am.
 
@Xeo Yes
 
Xeo
Man. He should get his ass back here.
 

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