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19:00
@BartekBanachewicz Because he likes to polish his windows.
@MooingDuck it's compiler optimized away?
HUEHUEHUEHUE
@EtiennedeMartel Sorry. I meant to go to your profile
so should I start with Learn You a Haskell or Real World Haskell?
@TonyTheLion And why do you want toooooo?
19:00
@EiyrioüvonKauyf what?
it looks like a chain of push ops ;A;
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I only read the former
@BartekBanachewicz LYAH probably.
@BartekBanachewicz Start with C#.
@MooingDuck why is this bad. orz besides it's a horrible design. performance wise why is this bad
19:00
@EtiennedeMartel I wanted to see if you were a 10k+ user
@EtiennedeMartel fuck C#
@BartekBanachewicz I see you don't want to get shit done, then.
@EiyrioüvonKauyf (1) hard to read (2) Most compilers do it automatically
Csharppe is cool but it's no Haskell.
19:00
't's'alright.
but but theory
@CatPlusPlus And thank fuck for that.
@MooingDuck why was he mad? you did the assignment technically
@EiyrioüvonKauyf performance wise my code was stellar
Xeo
Xeo
The worst thing about C# is that it's not Haskell.
19:01
@EtiennedeMartel I don't want to end up like a boring tool programmer somewhere in the corner
@EtiennedeMartel You're just bad at Haskell.
also sorry but GC.
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz LOL
@BartekBanachewicz I wondered that too.
@BartekBanachewicz You owe me a new troll-o-meter.
19:01
@EiyrioüvonKauyf he wanted factorial, I gave him fibonacci. They look similar at first glance, but they're 100% different.
I know Terra has GC shut up.
Haskell uses GC too.
Xeo
Xeo
Functional languages kinda suffer without a GC, y'know.
Because mine just exploded.
@MooingDuck well compared to a recursive; i'm pretty sure int j = 1; int k = 1; k += j works better otherwise
19:01
asploded
@MooingDuck ._. dammit i thought this was fibonacci why can't i read
@EiyrioüvonKauyf not on MSVC
@MooingDuck why?
@EiyrioüvonKauyf my code is fibonacci
also past 4 they're wrong
19:02
@EtiennedeMartel actually, it's more about Mono, and the fact I don't want to write shit that's written in C#. You don't do rendering in C#
@EiyrioüvonKauyf MSVC didn't unroll that loop for some reason. Dunno why. So I manually unrolled it
@MooingDuck ... he didn't even read the title???
@EiyrioüvonKauyf it is, but the guy he gave the code to wanted factorial
and turned the code in for assignment and got pwned
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I'd renamed it to "function" for his benefit :D
19:02
@BartekBanachewicz Well, you can.
C# is pretty cool
@EtiennedeMartel no, you can't.
you get shit done and you feel productive
but 3! != 3
Xeo
Xeo
Time for dinner - time for BREAD
19:03
seriously ...?
Sure you can.
Have you tried?
You still can.
yes, I did try TYVM.
if I wanted to do 2D crap, aight.
19:03
inb4 XNA
If OpenGL had a decent C# binding you'd be gushing all over it.
XNA is dead.
@EtiennedeMartel OpenTK is decent
I guess you don't care SharpDX or SlimDX
SharpGL wasn't that bad
but TBH I still think that C++ is way more suitable for GL than C#
19:04
I'm not saying C# is better.
I'm just saying you can use it for that.
eh, that's a moot point.
With C# value types, it's probably just the same.
Best tools for the job. If I am ever to write something that should be done in C#, I will use C#
no hard feelings.
in a perfect world we would have fast dynamic typing :'D
but I simply don't write much stuff
19:05
my feelings aren't hard
@EiyrioüvonKauyf just get out really with your trolling/ignorance :F
Xeo
Xeo
You're a lion, you're soft.
Dynamic typing is a subset of static typing anyway.
@TonyTheLion s/feelings/penis/
19:05
@BartekBanachewicz no that was unrelated to your discussion
@BartekBanachewicz Woa, pragmatism.
i was just thinking :3
my penis aren't hard
Didn't think I'd see that from you.
English fail
19:06
Penii.
> This question appears to be off-topic because it is about trolling.
lol
hi Mysticial
long time no see
you good?
@TonyTheLion Wait. I've been here everyday.
I still see little reason why C# would be worse at rendering than C++, esp. that GC or whatnot is terribly invalid argument when most of the work happens on GPU anyway.
@TonyTheLion Yeah, I'm good. :)
19:08
@CatPlusPlus it's not like that really. not yet.
@Mysticial Well not when I was actively chatting.
In OpenGL 5, maybe.
What's not like what?
> most of the work happens on GPU anyway
Everytime I read a line said by Bartek, I hear it in his voice in my head.
my sanity :P
19:08
CPU is still a very important part to it.
@TonyTheLion :D
(It's still not a valid argument)
@Mysticial How's YouTube?
also I have read a very interesting paper today about pure-CPU rendering from SIGGRAPH'13
@TonyTheLion Lots of videos to watch. :)
@Mysticial Is that part of your job?
19:09
Anyway, I could go with XMPPd in C#.
:v:
for chat thingy?
@TonyTheLion /his voice/Morgan Freeman's voice/
@CatPlusPlus Might be a good idea
much more fun
19:10
@EiyrioüvonKauyf lol
I'm strongly leaning towards XMPP as a protocol base.
@CatPlusPlus You know, Valve got 20% speedup on just removing intermediate DirectX call layer. I think C# can create even more overhead. I know it's maybe not that important for the stuff I am making, but OTOH I can't really optimize that much
@CatPlusPlus that would be a nice thing to get myself accustomed with C# more vOv
Great, C# is settled then.
^ first time I used this
19:11
@CatPlusPlus um that's kinda quick decision.
Now to figure out if XMPP is really the way to go.
^O^
@TonyTheLion My daily routine is something like this:
1. Show up to work.
2. Write some code.
3. Watch a video to make sure I didn't break anything.
4. Write some more code.
5. Watch a video to make sure I didn't break anything.
6. Write some more code.
7. Watch a video to make sure I didn't break anything.
8. Write some more code.
9. Watch a video to make sure I didn't break anything.

repeat about 10 times

10. Lunch at Google.

11. Write some more code.
12. Watch a video to make sure I didn't break anything.
13. Write some more code.
14. Watch a video to make sure I didn't break anything.
19:12
A bit boring, no?
Just any old video?
@BartekBanachewicz Hey, I was just waiting to see what you're gonna say.
@TonyTheLion Any video I want. As long as it's reasonably SFW.
@CatPlusPlus hm, really? I don't think it's a bad idea, but we should at least look at some alternatives.
19:12
@Mysticial what do you mean lunch at google
I'm jealz
I was planning on Csharppe from the start, really.
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Google provides lunch to its employees.
@EiyrioüvonKauyf He means just that. If you work for YouTube, you work for Google, so therefore when he has lunch, he's eating lunch at Google.
19:13
(Unless we go with XMPP, and there are no viable components to be used with C#)
I was thinking about Flask, but then I was really moving towards Node
languages implied, obviously.
I'd rather not write in JavaScript, like at all.
@TonyTheLion :| dammit i thought he worked at microsoft for some reason. but that's phd
Flask reminds me too much of Flash, about which I have nightmares
what are you two up to
19:13
:| dammit
@CatPlusPlus TypeScript or CoffeeScript?
i'm jealous of google food + kitchens
@melak47 new chat
@EiyrioüvonKauyf yea
And as I said yesterday, server-side web frameworks won't be very useful.
If we went with Python, it'd be Twisted probably.
19:14
needs more django ;)
Lets write it in assembler for ARM so its non portable and generally crappy :P
also twisted is sometimes obnoxious afaik
@CatPlusPlus Node is not really web. It has great support for async stuff exactly like that.
I mean we can already agree it won't be Ruby :3
@BartekBanachewicz That was wrt Flask.
@BartekBanachewicz :O but RoR
19:15
yeah, that's why I said I've reevaluated it.
everyone loves RoR
cough
@EiyrioüvonKauyf except I don't.
oh fun story, a few weeks ago i learned Twitter runs on RoR
no, it doesn't
Dont most people in the lounge hate ruby and RoR by extension?
19:16
it runs on Scala
twitter runs on scala
because ruby is just too fuckin slow :v (that being said twitter is massive)
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I am not going to read all that, take it away.
if you want go argue with Twitter developers about that.
19:17
tl;dr twitter uses ruby it says :|
wat
:| dammit old answers
@EiyrioüvonKauyf go get some real, updated information
Ruby is shit.
Scala is pretty cool tbh
19:17
Java it is, then? :D
@CatPlusPlus it sometimes makes for elegant but slow code; that's about it
No, it doesn't.
There's nothing elegant about code that can't be maintained.
I'd say either C#, Node.js, or... ?
any other propositions?
Twisted/Python is a possibility. Node is meh, really.
In my experience, when a car moves onto my house, my computer stops working, so it's not possible for any software to do anything. However, your mileage may vary, depending on where your power meter is located, how fast the car is moving, etc. — abarnert 1 min ago
19:18
what about Scala? NVM it has poor raw networking IIRC
hello all folkz
Hahahahaha xD
@CatPlusPlus def fib n;n==0?[0]:n==1?[0,1]:(2..n-1).inject([0,1]){|a|a<<(a[-1]+a[-2])};end
looks decently elegant to me
Yes, very fucking elegant, good job. Have a cookie.
@EiyrioüvonKauyf That's elegant? You're kidding right? Thats fucking unreadable
19:19
reminds me of javascript :|
@EiyrioüvonKauyf seriously go outside, to the back of your house, and check if you're not there.
@BartekBanachewicz Well, it's JVM, so I bet there's some networking libs around.
I'd rather not use anything dynamically typed.
@CatPlusPlus you have to get Java ones.
you guys should read javascript you'd ..... love it cough
@CatPlusPlus The sarcasm drips right off the screen here
19:20
Scala is a possibility, too.
@TonyTheLion doesn't matter; i like cookies :|
aight, so Twisted, C#, Scala, Node (with TS or CS).
Pick one
I won't recommend Lua, I guess. I agree with static typing.
CSharp seems good to me
Fuck it, lets use Java
19:21
@BartekBanachewicz there's Clojure ...
all of them are good, really. Maybe let's look at other stuff besides coding, then? Deployment?
@TonyTheLion no please no
I want some buzzwords on my screen
java is almost a steamboat with the amount of boilerplate it has
Also on topic of things that compile to JavaScript, there's also ScriptSharp. :v:
19:22
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I'm also king
but not of boilerplate
You're the king of porn.
I would recommend this but it has poor doc and cat said no web frameworks. Otherwise it does neat things
@CatPlusPlus I had that coming right at me
@Borgleader we are not looking for web framework really
For the web frontend we could go with AngularJS or knockout.
19:23
I vote Angular.
Which also make server-side framework pretty useless.
Meteor.js is pretty nice
How many strange things I've never heard of can there be?
also, knockout. - That name.
Red bananas.
@TonyTheLion there's at least 20 javascript frameworks. there's a fing framework for comparing frameworks
19:23
@BartekBanachewicz That's why I said "I would have" (i merely mentioned it because we were talking about scala a few moments ago)
I've been talking with a friend who's a front-end dev, and they were making chat recently.
@CatPlusPlus I've heard of those
They've used Erlang on server side and Angular on client.
@Cat I think it could be nice to serve both sockets and statics from one app, don't you think?
19:24
^ basically all the js and more T_T
also, well... this chat is in Csharppe.
Statics can be served with static-only nginx or something.
No need to involve any processing.
what about history?
What about it?
and statistics?
19:26
The frontend will act like a desktop client, everything else will be handled by the server.
And there won't be any statics from the server.
history should be served over HTTP IMHO
I probably shouldn't suggest this but... const_cast ? — Borgleader 22 secs ago
KILL IT :)
> bear in mind
19:27
> right to bear arms
this conversation is unbearable
what's wrong with my test that makes strcmp seem faster than string::operator<? I totally expected the two way comparison to beat the three-way!
@TonyTheLion i think you're lion about that
@Cat Serving history over http is a failsafe way to read transcript for people w/o websockets
@MooingDuck profile/inspect generated code
19:28
and if it's going to be processed by one app, it might as well be server by one app
and again, I am pretty sure that's how SO does it. (except search)
@BartekBanachewicz @CatPlusPlus so, are you gonna replace SO chat?
Xeo
Xeo
cue str1 < str2 being implemented as strcmp(str1.c_str(), str2.c_str()) < 0
@melak47 offer an alternative :F
@sehe can you explain? I'm not sure what you mean
@BartekBanachewicz well, "not replacing it"? :p
19:29
@Xeo I hope not :/
@Xeo It should use std::char_traits::eq.
or whatever the compare one is
Xeo
Xeo
char_traits::lt, actually
@sehe in MSVC9, two way is significantly faster than three-way, so it's a GCC thing I guess?
@jalf that one will still be here.
@MooingDuck They should come out equal for char, I believe
19:31
wait, why am I not passing -O3?
2
The duck is derping.
seriously
0
Q: Is Chuck Norris an alter ego of Jon Skeet?

OriolI have heard that both Chuck Norris and Jon Skeet are more powerful than anyone else. Then, I wonder if they are the same person? If not, that's a contradiction!

19:33
@TonyTheLion that's normal
@Mysticial Hahaha oh god xD I wonder how he reacts when he sees those (if he does)
inb4 Jon Skeet confirms he's really Chuck Norris
@MooingDuck oh. :(
@MooingDuck heh. Could be it figures out that no matter the string values, the sum is always going to be 0?
@Borgleader I assume he chuckles
@jalf that'd be a pretty incredible optimizer. Unfortunately, I can think of no other explanation. (Go G++!)
19:35
hm haskell call syntax is nice; after getting used to Lua's require "lol" it's natural.
because you add together both strcmp(a,b) and strcmp(b,a), and those are going to sum to 0 for any a and b
You could try removing one of the lines, so it doesn't try every combination. Then the result should be nonzero, and it'd have to compute everything
also, if building outside coliru, pass the strings in from a separate TU. As long as you don't have link-time code gen enabled, that should protect against the compiler making assumptions about the strings
@Rapptz could be recomputed
@jalf nope
libc pretty imba.
19:40
@BartekBanachewicz Eh, we'll worry about fallbacks later.
@Borgleader he wants a pointer that can be treated as const at runtime depending on the actual value, AFAICT.
@MooingDuck nope what?
@Mysticial that was quick
oh right
@CatPlusPlus I guess if we want other slaves contributors we should pick something they will be able to use and not screw up (that includes me, if anyone takes it personal). That would eliminate Scala.
19:41
@jalf the linked version only tries two comparisons (not inverse of eachother) and the string is passed via argv[1]. strcmp still takes 0 time.
13 mins ago, by sehe
@MooingDuck profile/inspect generated code
Time for part b
erm
@sehe still trying to figure out how to make G++ do that. I'm making progress. I got it to compile where I could find the resulting output now.
@MooingDuck gcc -S
-masm=intel too
19:42
@Rapptz not crucial
For profiling, -pg and then run gprof.
@sehe AT&T syntax meh.
@sehe I guess the problem is it's really hard to see from the dissasembly why compiler optimized your code away, since it isn't going to be there :p
> When a function doesn't take any parameters, we usually say it's a definition (or a name).
that's... brilliant
@sehe I see, well I posted an arguably better solution (no const_cast this time)
Ugh I still don't like talking on Mumble.
@CatPlusPlus why's that?
just get there already.
I hate my voice and accent and everything.
lol accent. lol. It's not like mine is good.
@jalf hmm, strcmp is call to strcmp. string::operator< is 6 ops plus call to memcmp. So, yeah.
19:47
Oh you are so cure already
@Cat as a project leader you gotta be talking to people
@MooingDuck wot
I'm writing to people.
Way more efficient!
19:48
@CatPlusPlus :|
voice > words/second then writing
I talk way slower than I type.
I'm going to take a shower, I'll be back when you man up.
2
what
how is that possible
one of the two is ridiculously slow
on coliru. we haven't confirmed woafdnafidlag....
I AM A MORON.
Much lower bandwidth between brain and mouth than brain and fingers.
19:49
@EiyrioüvonKauyf you type very fast, but I doubt that's backed by thinking
I can type about as fast as I think. With speech I lag behind and it's a mess.
@CatPlusPlus Grumble on Mumble.
Well, maybe it's perceived thing but w/e I still suck at speaking.
@CatPlusPlus Low self esteem, perhaps?
I don't know, I'm not a psychologist.
What's self esteem?
19:50
@BartekBanachewicz depends sometimes it isn't
Xeo
Xeo
I can speak faster than I type, but I still think faster than I speak, causing me to jumble my words all the time :s
@Xeo IOW, you're dropping packets.
Xeo
Xeo
kinda
I really have to speak slow on purpose.
There's also pronunciation overhead.
Xeo
Xeo
And even if I get that done right, sometimes I'm just constantly overthinking some approach I'm talking about, and end up with something completely different in my head.
19:52
And also the fact that my ears suck, and I always speak too quietly, even though I think I speak normally.
And everything louder feels like shouting.
Plus, it's like pressing Enter after every letter.
Can't double check.
Speaking is shit.
Seriously. Man the hell up.
2
"BSkyB, as the service is more commonly called, filed suit against Microsoft in 2011 in the English High Court, successfully arguing that the “Sky” portion of its name could be confused with Microsoft’s own SkyDrive, and that Microsoft’s use of the name SkyDrive infringed Sky’s rights in the ‘Sky’ mark."

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2045634/microsoft-to-rename-skydrive-after-losing-trademark-suit.html
@EiyrioüvonKauyf one is slow on coliru, I cannot reproduce on my own machine
@sehe the asm looks like they should be the same on my machine, but I haven't tested to see if GCC reproduces the problem on my machine because I'm still working out how to link with the stdlib.
19:58
Microsoft should just go out and sue every company out there that has "Micro" in their name since people are apparently too stupid to differentiate (as pointed out by "BSkyB")
That's not how trademarks work.

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