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17:00
Isn't "message passing" just the fancy name for Smalltalk method calls?
Rob
Rob
That's what I'm not so clear on, I thought they could be used as a means of IPC
why would anyone want to be a juggaloo?
I've seen authors say that OOP is about "objects passing messages to other objects"
It is in some languages, but not in C++ or Java.
so yeah, basically method calls and return values
Rob
Rob
17:02
Err
> The definition from SmalltalkLanguage: A message is simply a method call on an object. Smalltalk messages are perfectly synchronous (the caller waits for the callee to return a value), and not terribly different then function/method calls in other languages.
Rob
Rob
Yea I guess so.
There are languages with true asynchronous message passing.
Rob
Rob
Ha, I found that right as you posted it
Erlang and such.
Go.
17:03
There are other crazy languages that everything happens in paralel, every line of code
Rob
Rob
Somehow I was under the misconception that Smalltalk was one of them
So, I guess that your instructor was just being a smarty pants Smalltalk snob.
Rob
Rob
Sounds like it.
@hexa Threaded-INTERCAL.
Rob
Rob
Or I misunderstood him, which is entirely possible... he likes to ramble
17:04
Not every line, but...
It basically changes INTERCAL so that the COME FROM statement is multithreaded.
@MartinhoFernandes I only know of VHDL and Verilog that follow that line, but then again they are hardware description languages and not general-purpose ones
Rob
Rob
Hmm, Smalltalk message passing actually is sort of different
"However, the terminology matters. Insisting that objects communicate exclusively via message sends rules out aberrations such as static methods, non-virtual methods, constructors and public fields. More than that: It means that one cannot access another object’s internals - we have to send the object a message. So when we say that an object encapsulates its data, encapsulation can’t be interpreted as just bundling - it means data abstraction."
How do I make that a quote?
It's just constrained method calls.
@Rob Read the newbie hints for details. Basically, multiline breaks Markdown.
Rob
Rob
Heh, thanks.
If it's a single line you use > before it.
17:08
@MartinhoFernandes closed...
So Tomalak never returned here after that day huh
Well, his loss, I guess.
Rob
Rob
@MartinhoFernandes, I think abstracting away object internals from the caller (or message sender) is different than just constrained method calls, is it not?
Or maybe not.
Rob
Rob
What happened to him? :/
17:11
@Rob You can do the same in other languages.
It's just "member function calls" in C++ or "instance method calls" in Java.
It's the same.
Just another fancy name.
Smalltalk's sintax looks like crap to me I can't make any of it
Rob
Rob
Same implementation maybe, but I would argue it's a different interface
How's it different from member function calls?
Rob
Rob
I'm not sure ;) Still reading, that was just my first impression
And that no-constructors thing is bullshit too.
You send a message to the class to create instances.
Which seems just a fancy way of saying the same.
In fact, that's how you do it in Ruby.
Rob
Rob
17:18
I guess what I'm getting at is that it seems to promote duck typing, and it probably uses late binding for method invokation
Sure, it's just a member function call in the end
Why is C# so popular around SO? It seems to always be the top tag, everyday. Is it because the language is really that popular or is it because the C# community adopted SO as their home?
Maybe the latter.
Rob
Rob
I'd say C# is pretty big right now, but not as disproportionate as SO would suggest
sbi
sbi
@Rob Isn't Ritchie in that gang? So he came up with C that doesn't know constness. (Forgivable, nobody knew much about programming languages back then.) Then Stroustrup creates a language from that where he adds const. Then the C crowd sees this is useful and retrofits it to their languages. Then, 40 years later, Ritchie comes up with another language and dismisses constness again, as if nothing had happened in between. Well, that sucks. Really.
Rob
Rob
@sbi Heh, I wasn't arguing for it
17:20
@hexa Do you find anything wrong with C#?
Rob
Rob
Merely trying to gain an understanding. I've never written a line of Smalltalk.
@FredOverflow Wrong question!
@FredOverflow What that has to do with anything?
sbi
sbi
@Rob I didn't say you were.
I don't know... sounds a bit like "language jealousy", if such a thing exists ;-)
sbi
sbi
17:21
@FredOverflow C# has no const. Genericity is weak compared to C++. These two alone make a language suck. :)
@FredOverflow It is genuine curiosity. If I were to generalize from SO tags, I'd say that C# is the most used language these days, but I think that can't be true
@FredOverflow Oh, it exists.
@sbi C++ has no module system, and its syntax sucks donkey balls. Conclusion: every language sucks!
@Rob Not the same thing.
Far from being the same thing.
17:23
@Rob Not the same. C#'s const basically defines an alias for a literal.
sbi
sbi
@Rob You can only use this for compile-time constants. (Yeah, I exaggerated. Sorry.)
It's closer to a typesafe, scoped, #define
x 98 x 36 x 33 its very disproportional
sbi
sbi
@FredOverflow Of course every language sucks. But at least C++ is a sucker that lets you hack around it.
There's also readonly for non-compile-time constants, but still not the same.
17:24
@MartinhoFernandes readonly only affects the assignment operator.
sbi
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes IIRC you can only use them at class scope.
@hexa What does "c# x 98" mean?
Rob
Rob
Ohh, you meant const as a type qualifier?
@sbi Recent Tags at SO front page
Rob
Rob
Smacks forehead
sbi
sbi
@hexa Ah, Ok.
17:27
SO leans predominantly towards .NET in general and C# in particular.
Well, .NET is pretty much dominated by C#.
Which is probably a good thing, given the alternatives.
You mean like C++/CLI? :)
Reminds me that I haven't had the time to look into F#.
17:29
@FredOverflow I've always been scared by that. Maybe I'll look into it one day.
@MartinhoFernandes Well, the problem is that nearly every single .NET feature has an associated keyword in C++/CLI.
F# is meh.
@CatPlusPlus Really? I heard it was the shit.
I like the monads, ah, "computation expressions".
Haskell is the shit.
Rob
Rob
17:30
^
F# has Monads?
F# is a poor man's substitute.
Rob
Rob
Haskell is pretty awesome.
@CatPlusPlus It's as readable as a 💩.
@FredOverflow "Computation expressions". Just a fancy name for monads.
As if "monad" wasn't fancy enough.
17:31
"Monad" sounds like someone tripped on his keyboard while typing "nomad".
Monads have balls! (nads = balls, get it?)
And F# inherits OCaml's ;;.
I'd say Haskell wins either way.
@CatPlusPlus You pretty much only need that in the REPL.
I don't trust language designers who think ;; is a good idea.
2
@FredOverflow Monads have one ball!
2
17:33
OCaml is French.
Make of that what you will.
By the standards of this room, more like 'starorgy'.
2
Now you should go buy HIB3.
what's that?
17:38
@MartinhoFernandes ?
That was probably the 1st link returned by google :P
Rob
Rob
Haha yea. It was.
not for me :(
sbi
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Actually, to me "monad" sounds like something yucky and wiggling which you find when you bite into a rotten plum.
@sbi You know what's worse than finding a worm in an apple?
sbi
sbi
17:44
@EtiennedeMartel Finding it between your teeth after you've bitten into that apple?
@sbi Finding half a worm
We have that saying in Brazil too :P
sbi
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel I did have a clue.
@sbi Indeed.
:)
sbi
sbi
17:46
@EtiennedeMartel FWIW, the kind of worms you find in fruits are called "Made" in German, which sounds pretty close to monad.
💩
haha
sbi
sbi
@Nils There's nothing funny about this in FF.
Rob
Rob
@MartinhoFernandes -- any chance you have a reference for what you said earlier about it being Google + Apple who pushed for the PILE OF POO in Unicode?
I find that absolutely hilarious, would like to forward on to someone in the office :]
ur browser doesn't properly support unicode
It doesn't depend on the browser.
17:50
but still haven't figured out how to type it
I tried in FF and Chrome
in FF is just like sbi's. In Chrome is just an empty box
Then the os?
IT DOESN'T DEPEND ON THE BROWSER.
I also tried in Internet Explorer
Rob
Rob
......
17:51
👻
And Safari
I figured you people just can't hear me.
SO LOUD NOISES.
hahahaha, just kidding dude
I havent tried IE or Safari ;)
I love my ssd, stuff works so much faster with it.
I'll let you on a secret.
It depends on... the fonts.
Who would've guessed that, right?
17:52
DEAR LORD.
Well, I guess it could depend on the browser if it didn't understand Unicode at all, but then you'd get much worse shenanigans than a default glyph.
Is there a font that supports PILE OF POO?
NO
Rob
Rob
hahaha
YES
17:53
<img src="sad_life.jpg" />
depends, really
0
Q: Typing emoji in Mac OSX Lion.

NilsSo 10.7 comes with support for Emoji. I can copy/paste them from the character viewer (like 🎵), but I have no idea how to actually type them.

RT @MuhamadHesham: RT @acmASCIS: enjoy with Dynamic Programming :) http://t.co/U0zrKCk - thx you both for sharing the #TopCoder tutorial.
so this is not off-topic :)
It seems to me that Xcode loads and builds quite a bit faster with an SSD so I guess this isn't a bad investment for a (C++) coder.
sbi
sbi
18:17
@EtiennedeMartel Yep?
You're a lord?
@Rob Here's the proposal for inclusion of Emoji in Unicode: std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n3583.pdf
(I thought POO, PILE OF was one of the Emoji characters, but I can't find it in that proposal)
Ah, it's there.
It's just that the name proposed at the time was DUNG.
This is so ridiculous.
Very cool article, if anyone is interested in science
Who cares about science?
It's easier to just make shit up. And lots more fun.
@Nils LOL
18:31
lol I love Family guy
Who linked that "algorithm tutorials thing"?
me
The guy keeps saying DP, that doesnt mean Dynamic Programming at all
why not?
some other area already took the DP acronym man. It's when a very permissive girl, find 2 very intrusive guys and discuss erm, design patterns
yes?
18:36
DP can also mean Data Processing.. does that mean Design Patterns acronym is wrong?
.. or Double Penetration ;)
Well, I keep thinking about the latter when I am reading that article and it just distracts me
hehehe
A DP is an algorithmic technique which is usually based on a recurrent formula and one (or some) starting states. A sub-solution of the problem is constructed from previously found ones. DP solutions have a polynomial complexity which assures a much faster running time than other techniques like backtracking, brute-force etc.
Dude, see what I mean
"backtracking", "brute-force"
Hmmm
holy shit
LulzSec?
I'm a genius!
18:40
@CatPlusPlus: Like csh? :)
18 minutes playing VVVVVV and I've already died 107 times.
This game is evil.
@0A0D Like csh what?
"I don't trust designers.. ;;"
Oh. I don't use UNIX shells too much, they all suck.
@CatPlusPlus strange game...
@hexa even stranger.... :\
18:46
@0A0D The only winning move is not to play.
Woo, 7.5k rep
The only winning move is to not get impaled on those fucking spikes.
@CatPlusPlus seems easy to just flip around them, since you can gravitate to the celing
user402642
19:01
What's the best way to compare compiler output of gcc with the -O3 and without -O3? My professor mentions that I should use a disassembler to convert the machine level instructions into assembly? Any suggestions?
@CarlodelMundo compile with -S
as one of the command line args
it will generate a .s file containing the assembly code, then you compare
user402642
thanks hexa, I'll give it a shot
@0A0D Oh, of course it's easy in principle.
@CatPlusPlus I just think the guy is making a mountain out of a mole hill. I can cross two wires and make the battery blow up - does that constitute a hack?
19:13
@0A0D The problem with that hack is that it would be possible to create a malicious program that causes your battery to blow up when run.
The SMBus bus is accessible from userspace
that is why this is so bad
SMBus is a protocol on top of I²C, in a modern computer you use it to talk to the sensors, get the RPMs of fans and information from your RAM, and batteries
Didn't they say it's not possible to remotely blow up the battery?
@CatPlusPlus That's what I gathered.. you have to be there. It's not the wow-factor I think they were trying to get at.
I can strap C4 to a laptop and make it blow up on command...
now thats a hack!
sbi
sbi
Booting to the web: Mozilla plans a browser OS. http://t.co/fIqfhyK
19:29
@sbi: I think you guys were being trolled.. no way that is a real question.
0
Q: How to properly initialize a string

toservemanHow would I go about defining the following string for the following function? As of now I get the warning: C4047: '=' : 'const char' differs in levels of indirection from 'char [4]' and the error: C2166: l-value specifies const object. Both in the third line of code. uint8_t *buffer= (uint8...

19:52
Krispy Kreme Burger:
how do I get rid of this:
warning: format '%u' expects type 'unsigned int', but argument 3 has type 'uint32_t'
don't use shitty C-style I/O
I am coding in C dummy
Woop di doo
then why are you coming to the C++ chat?
19:54
because you are awesome
5
Q: printf format specifiers for uint32_t and size_t

ant2009gcc 4.4.4 c89 -Wall -Wextra I have the following size_t i = 0; uint32_t k = 0; printf("i [ %lu ] k [ %u ]\n", i, k); I get the following warning when compiling: format ‘%lu’ expects type ‘long unsigned int’, but argument has type ‘uint32_t’ When I ran this using splint I got the followi...

yes, I am, but I can't awesome myself back into the past to make C not suck
that was intended for hexa
but C-style I/O is definitely not awesome and it is your problem
so either get rid of it or live with it
post your code hexa
19:57
its simple like a sprintf("%u", ui32); ui32 is of type uint32_t
i know for a fact that uinsigned int = uint32_t
but still it complains
@hexa uint32_t is unsigned long int
did you try putting %lu instead of %u ?
but unsigned long is equal unsigned int
hum, will try

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