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00:11
@hadley we don't work in a vacuum. we get students who say they know R programming but have never seen a square bracket or a for loop. R has forked.
2
00:53
@Spacedman Are you finding it a big barrier for students to learn... what a for loop is? If they need to build one for a package or something? This is something my 9-year-old daughter can do in Scratch, my 11-year-old daughter can do in Python.
01:13
Can we please move discussion about metaphysics and "what we wish R were" over to the very fine "R Meta" room set up by @BrodieG. Thanks all from you room co-maintainer.
And to the good Dr Wickham: I am just in from a long day at work, but I set up an entire baby package and repo for that very question. Which you of course chose to ignore when I posted it (cf discussion with M Morgan here). Have fun with it, but please stop the conjecture. You did break base::filter.
 
1 hour later…
02:31
@BrodieG yeah, my feeling is the combination of logical coercion using !! + being in quasiquoted environment is sufficiently rare that it's the best of bad options
@DirkEddelbuettel to repeat myself: I'm happy to not discuss tidyverse elsewhere. You're the one who keeps bringing it up here
If I remove `importFrom("stats", "filter")` from the NAMESPACE, bbb fails R CMD check with `computeBollingerBands: no visible global function definition for
‘filter’`.
There is a reason that check was added to R CMD check
It seems unreasonable to blame me for "breaking" filter when this is unexpected infelicity of the NAMESPACE system in R
03:32
Now that I think of it, haven’t we already discussed the filter issue? And I said that I wished I hadn’t chosen an existing name, but there’s no going back now. Not sure that we need to keep rehashing that discussion
 
6 hours later…
09:18
@JuliaSilge 9yos and 11yos are learning machines - they can do almost nothing else! Students are what do I have to do to get my grade? machines.
But that's beside the point. They're supposed to "know R", yet they do statistical courses and they can't implement a likelihood function because they can't program, (but they can mung data and make plots, I'll give them that) Five years ago anyone who "knew R" could.
And then they also produce code with idioms like the !! and we look at this and go "wtf? where did that come from?" and I think "well at least with Perl you knew you had no chance of understanding someone's code from a quick readthrough"
 
4 hours later…
13:38
I will try to make this the last time I reply to the good Dr Wickham who once again twists words. My point is simple. None of has any business breaking existing code with new packages. Yet exactly tat was done here. bbb has code from around 2004 or 2005, which worked every single day. Until a user loads dplyr. And given all the hype around a certain rhyme or verse is likely. We all know how to protect code we write now. That is not the point. The point is:
> library(bbb)
> BollingerBands("SPY")
> library(dplyr)

Attaching package: ‘dplyr’

The following objects are masked from ‘package:stats’:

    filter, lag

The following objects are masked from ‘package:base’:

    intersect, setdiff, setequal, union

> BollingerBands("SPY")
Error in UseMethod("filter_") :
  no applicable method for 'filter_' applied to an object of class "c('double', 'numeric')"
>
is, and always has been, criminal behaviour for a package. We should still discuss reverting it methinks as the first law is (or ought to be): "Don't do harm."
(For reference: here I removed from the import for stats from NAMESPACE as that is how the code was in 2004 or 2005. And BAM it breaks.)
But, and now with moderator hat on: This discussion is closed. Follow-ups to "R Meta". And myself as moderator am mad at myself as particpant for asking such a silly question as "the *verse talks a lot about its philosophy. Is it written out?" which clearly did not belong here. (And was never answered.)
I answered that question with a brief statement of principles, a link to a manifesto, and a link to a presentation.
But this discussion is clearly upsetting to you, so I won't follow up further
13:53
lets do what we do best, and help some people...
-3
Q: Xubuntu operating system R

BioifoCan anyone tell how to install R and Rstudio on Xubuntu operating system? I have tried so many times but always it gives the error: R shared library (/usr/local/lib/R/lib/libR.so)not found is configured the build with –enable-R-shlib.

where "help" includes downvoting and closing. Because that helps.
@Spacedman Done my part. Cringing including because the first comment of course references a crappy blog post as opposed to the official README we have been pointing at for ten or fifteen years. But can't win against armies on sycophants...
@DirkEddelbuettel flag the comment as "obsolete"?
@Spacedman I shipped you a sizeable unit of "don't care enough" ...
ooh special delivery...
I guess for many users it is important if the content is made less readable by commercials, or emoji, or (everybody's favourite) animated GIFs.
14:06
Oh ffs cran still has frames...
You could start of a multi-post discussion about it, just like the epically useless svn/git rehash...
FWIW getting CRAN to change may be harder than getting R Core to change
14:21
@DirkEddelbuettel I'm at the "acceptance" stage with cran these days.
the git/svn discussion is at "bargaining".
Denial: "I can't believe an important project like R uses SVN and Bugzilla!"
Anger: Posts to R-dev
Bargaining: Tries to make a case for git
Depression: realises what R-core really is
Acceptance: goes to use Python instead.
anyway, here's an interesting one:
0
Q: Print Loop results of each iteration

Pedro OliveiraI am working with CTM for Text Mining and I'm running a loop to define the optimal number of topics, using the following code: best.model <- lapply(seq(2, 60, by = 1), function(k){CTM(dtm_tfidf,k, method="VEM", control=control_CTM_VEM, model = NULL)}) best.model.logLik <- as.data.f...

I am sure there is a pipe operator (which would also qualify as a secure password given all the special chars) that does that.
15:00
Just blogged / tweeted about this week's CRAN maintenance releases which could have been called tinyverse motivated as they removed spurious, hidden, and undeclared test dependencies.
 
5 hours later…
I guess I'll get to update a few SO posts where I bemoaned this. The different R mailing list posts will stand as a memory. Finest part of this change is Luke (as author of the change) removing the (BDR, as I recall) rant line from Rscript.Rd about "60% of the loading time is methods" (paraphrasing).
> Rscript now defaults to using the same default packages as R. https://github.com/wch/r-source/commit/c30ffef956b7fed993cbbd15feeb92313c3b89fa WOW!

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