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3:50 AM
@JerryCoffin Not what the ruling has said, I have read part of the original ruling (which is over 200 pages). I quote you:
The right to abortion does not fall within this category. Until the latter part of the 20th century, such a right was entirely unknown in American law. Indeed, when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, three quarters of theStates made abortion a crime at all stages of pregnancy.
@JerryCoffin Allowing people to carry guns is as 'good' excuse as allowing other nation to have nuclear weapons. Because most countries would argue that they have only developed nuclear weapons for self defence.
I find it manipulative to say 'abortion right', not 'the right women have over their own bodies'. They are really two sides of a coin.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:46 AM
@TelKitty Isn't there more than one body involved, though?
 
6:58 AM
@TelKitty Perhaps you should learn to read more carefully. That's basically a discussion about how they reached their decision, not the decision itself.
@TelKitty No, they're really not. And in any case, there are limits to rights over our own bodies. Consider a pair of conjoined twins, two separate heads, one body. They come to hate each other and each demands full control over her own body, by having that other head surgically removed (thus killing their twin). I'm going to posit that the one's right to life outweighs the other's right to bodily autonomy.
Thus, killing either of the two is wrong, even if that denies the other a "right" they'd normally enjoy.
 
7:25 AM
You can also consider the right to suicide and/or self-harm, and how a temporary mental health illness can affect a person's judgment ability.
 
7:36 AM
@MangaD Also true.
 
nwp
8:13 AM
You can argue that the right to your own body doesn't cover this, but the fact remains that forcing a woman to bear a child against her will is unreasonably cruel, followed by forcing a child to grow up with a mother who doesn't want it with barely any support from the people who did the forcing.
I see the point that the supreme court is to watch over the constitution and not make reasonable laws, so I somewhat agree to their decision to say it's a state matter, not a federal matter. Still, since there is widespread support for this cruelty the end result is cruelty.
 
@nwp You can argue that a woman should take responsibility for her actions. And you can also argue that the baby can be given for adoption. It is estimated that ~2 million couples in the US are waiting to adopt.
 
nwp
The punishment of being forced to bear a child and care for it until adulthood is not at all reasonable compared to the offense of getting drunk at a party and having gotten fucked. I'm pretty sure you cannot simply rid yourself of all responsibility of the child by giving it up for adoption, but even if you could it would still be unreasonably cruel.
 
That is your opinion. My opinion is that people are too irresponsible these days and cover their mistakes by committing even more serious mistakes. Why do you think that it is cruel to give birth to the child and give it for adoption?
 
nwp
Child birth is very painful and risky. Even if everything goes right it leaves marks on the body. Also it takes you out of commission for months. I think there is also a psychological effect that mentally binds the mother to the child, making giving up the child for adoption difficult and no matter if she keeps it or gives it up for adoption she suffers greatly.
I agree that the situation is irresponsible. Give her a stern talking to. Shake your head at her. That is a reasonable punishment for the offense given.
And even if you think people should suffer for their mistakes, the child does not deserve to be raised this way.
 
The pain of child birth depends on the woman. For some women it is very painful and for others it is not. Abortion also has risks for the woman. Regarding the mental bond, you accused the mother of raising a child that she does not want. Is this not contradicting?
 
nwp
8:28 AM
One could also argue it's not even irresponsible. A pill the next morning will fix the mistake, no harm done (besides some side effects). Even if it's caught late a pill will still fix it. The whole problem is artificially created by people trying to inflict cruel punishment.
@MangaD How is it contradictory? You want to go pee at night. You are afraid of the dark. There is no contradiction, it just is. The solution is to turn on the light, not to make the person suffer through a panic attack or trying to hold it till morning.
 
This is a programming site and I was suspended once for talking about a sensitive topic, so if you don't mind I will end it here.
 
@MangaD Is a fertilised chicken egg same as a chicken?
 
nwp
We were just asked to drop it. We should respect that.
 
@JerryCoffin Maybe you allow others the right over your body. Surely I don't wish the same.
 
nwp
It's a mercat!
Including the bra, increadible
 
8:40 AM
I call it mermeow, but you can call it mercat, I don't think the cat can recognise either name ~_~
 
@nwp But regarding an artificial created problem, you could say the same about contraceptives, morning pill, etc. For example, one could argue that infidelity is an artificially enhanced problem. Whereas before contraceptives existed, it was more difficult to get away with infidelity and "b*tch" behavior, now it is much, much easier.
Same regarding pornography and how it affects people's brains and libido. Of course, you may not consider these things to be bad, but they are still artificially enhanced behaviors.
 
nwp
How is not suppressing people's desires in any way artificial enhancement?
 
I mean, the opposite is also true.
 
nwp
If they don't want to cheat, they can just not cheat. If they don't like porn they don't have to watch it. Nobody forces them.
I don't consider forcing people to be faithful to be a good thing.
It just enables abuse.
 
What I mean is that the "fix" for the "mistake" is artificially created. The "mistake" is also artificially created.
 
nwp
8:55 AM
I don't see it. Do you think the natural state of things is to keep a tight leash on people/women so they cannot get drunk at parties?
 
Why are you assuming that alcohol is responsible? :P
 
nwp
Alcohol lowers inhibitions, so it has some impact here. Also it takes away some of the responsibility because while "I didn't know what I was doing, I was drunk" is not a great excuse, it's somewhat relatable. But you can leave the alcohol out without changing anything. Pro-birthers tend to also be anti-education, so maybe they just didn't know what they were doing. Not everyone is in the maximum safety state of mind when young and at a party.
 
What I am trying to say is this: Imagine there are no artificial things. There is no porn, there are no contraceptives, there is no abortion. Do you think that people would not think twice before that "party" or before "cheating"?
 
nwp
They wouldn't. Without porn people get more frisky in person. And we had that situation not too long ago, just go back a hundred years or so. I'm fairly sure people didn't have less (accidental) children.
As an aside, I prefer artificial over natural. I like having unnaturally high amounts of food, protection from nature and medical care that lets me live an artificially long and comfortable life.
 
But the baby boom happened after the industrial revolution.
Until then the world population grew at a slow rate.
 
nwp
9:01 AM
I'm fairly sure that is generally attributed to the wide availability of food, not porn. Also we have more better porn now than we had then.
 
So you are saying that (accidental) babies died before that?
 
nwp
More babies died back then, but I don't think it's a much higher percentage than in wanted ones. It's probably very difficult to verify since unwanted babies usually are not tracked well.
Then again people have done abortions back then too. It wasn't pretty.
 
@nwp Now you mentioned it, feline's t!ts are showing though, because they are lower ...
 
nwp
Catnip slip!
 
I mean, why only human female can not bare their breasts in the public? Male can show their breasts, female cats can show their nipples, cows can show their udders. This is not fair ..
 
9:08 AM
@nwp Would be nice to know how many babies outside marriage there were, though. Since this is the whole basis of the argument.
 
nwp
@TelKitty Personally I think it's because people are assholes. If I were to phrase it better I would say it's because female breasts are sexy while male ones are not, and for a reason I do not understand most people tend to think sex is a dirty smelly and all around awful thing that should be hidden as much as possible.
@MangaD I would assume a lot. You had powerful men with maids that couldn't say no.
Also no available contraceptives.
 
But in that case, their disloyalty was there for everyone to see.
 
nwp
Was it? The man denies it and the maid is a slut for sleeping around, case closed.
Even if she was perfectly innocent, she is now spoiled goods.
 
That is oversimplifying :p
 
nwp
Uh-oh, we seem to have attracted a smurf.
 
9:17 AM
@nwp The truth tends to surface, sooner or later.
 
nwp
Sadly that doesn't actually help the girl.
 
Statistics, though?
It is kind of a moot point to argue over an assumption.
 
nwp
Statistics on what? On how much a woman's attractiveness as a potential wife drops once it's revealed that she already has a child?
 
Regarding the comparison of humans with animals, you will find that some animals are monogamous, and some are not.
Statistics on adultery over 100 years ago.
 
nwp
I don't think we even have statistics for that today.
 
9:23 AM
There are some studies done. I don't know how accurate they are.
 
 
4 hours later…
1:00 PM
Australia's second largest telecommunication company has been hacked ... although it probably started to happen a while ago:
Jul 17 at 4:58, by TelKitty
Hey, contact number on my phone account has been changed by someone else. it's either data corruption on telecom's end or someone hacked my account (again). Seriously ...
Phone number was and still is with that telecom ...
 

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