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12:32 AM
anyone has a tip on how to not get bored?
 
take on too many responsibility
 
90 excel formula converted to python later I'm feeling like the remaining 60 formula will take as much time as 110 first
 
program in a language that isn't compiled
 
I'd be fine with programmed language, at least people put some thought in what they write if they have to wait for it to compile
 
12:53 AM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Sounds like the old line about programming in general: The first 90% of the work takes the first 90% of the time. Then the other 10% of the work takes the other 90% of the time.
 
when I was in college we called it the 80/20 rule but I guess 90/10 could bas well accurate considering how much the remaining thing takes
 
 
3 hours later…
3:28 AM
I always show up late for the party
 
 
2 hours later…
5:21 AM
I am not getting paid anything for doing work during the solar farm construction phase. Not do I care.
 
6:05 AM
Rural life is lonely ... even for farm animals. You walk pass by, they stare at you, some even run towards you. I could feel the craving for attention in their eyes.
 
 
1 hour later…
user7659542
7:23 AM
@Mysticial do you happen to know which instruction precisely?
 
user7659542
@Mysticial seems like it does the same on asm level no matter whether you do (val < 0x8000) or ((val & 0x8000)==0)
 
user7659542
@Mysticial when compiling with clang 8.0.0 however you do indeed need an additional instruction
 
7:59 AM
 
user7659542
@Mikhail that s the type of crap that drives me crazy
 
user7659542
one guy goes on holiday and the whole departement is stuck
 
Is France some kind of socialist utopia? How the fuck can their "developers" (who failed to implement a C-style API) be gone for over a month.
 
user7659542
@Mikhail Europe is AFAIK very different from the US in that regard : )
 
Honestly, I'm about to blacklist the French for the same reasons I refuse to work with Indian companies.
 
user7659542
8:02 AM
there is no problem with going on holidays for longer than a month
 
user7659542
it should just not lead to this type of situation, ie "we don t know what/how to do because person X is on holiday"
 
user7659542
poor processes and management
 
For me, a month holiday woluld be absurde
 
user7659542
@Mikhail you are American I guess?
 
I have a very mixed racial profile
 
user7659542
8:04 AM
I mean, you live/work in the US. Right?
 
Sure
 
user7659542
@Mikhail that s why this sounds absurd to you
 
user7659542
in Europe that s not so unusual
 
I think we should build an anarcho-capitalist utopia under the sea, somewhere between Iceland and Greenland.
 
8:25 AM
With lots of holidays.
 
 
5 hours later…
1:08 PM
Holidays are overrated, there are things more interesting than holidays and one of your aims in life should be to find them.
 
user8104581
holidays are more interesting when you have few of them
 
That's true too.
 
on the topic of holidays, the company I work for got bought by a larger one and now I get 6 more days off a year. Totalling 30 now.
It's really weird to me how few days off people in the US sometimes get. But it's all just frame of reference. To many US residents 30 days off a year would seem crazy
 
user8104581
a bigger portion of the US earn a lot more and have better life quality than in most other countries though.
 
@andreyrk deceptive, they work a lot more and have a lower overall effective take home than the rest of the developed world on average
 
1:17 PM
earn more I'll buy. Life quality would be discussable imho
 
@PeterT blame the puritans
@PeterT in base wages maybe, but in terms of overall utility... heck no. Between housing, health care, and transportation costs over 2/3rds of the average household income is eaten up before food and other base costs are even allocated
and that's not including taxes which usually eat up the last third
 
user8104581
I mean, not having to worry as much about having food to instead having to worry about not getting obese does seem like better life quality to me. 'Potential' life quality might be a better term though.
 
Oh yeah, if you're rich I don't think there's many better places to live it up than the US
 
@andreyrk Oh the misconceptions, quality food is expensive. People don't buy sugary crap because it's tasty, they buy it because it's cheap
That in turn leads to health problems that lead to higher costs
 
plus I guess regional differences in the US are much larger than in many places.
 
1:24 PM
@PeterT Texas is the size of France
 
user8104581
If we compare to other developed countries, then yeah I'm sure the US doesn't do much better.
 
France Total
640,679 km2 (247,368 sq mi)[3] (42nd)
Texas Ranked 2nd
• Total 268,581[2] sq mi
(696,241 km2)
so technically texas is larger
 
Also the amazing housing costs - you move to a place where you could potential earn more, 80+% workers still tend to get more than a third of their income chewed up in housing. Or rephrase it the other way - the easier the place is to find a high paid job, the higher the housing cost.
 
@TelKitty actually it's worse, in areas like SF or NY it can be up to 2/3rds
 
And yet plenty of young people still dream of moving up there.
 
1:28 PM
The US is literally all kinds of screwed up. It's my country and I love it... but it's like an old racist grandfather
 
user8104581
IDK man I think you're better off there than out here.
 
Statistically it very much depends. Average life expectancy is dropping like a rock. Average savings is too. Ability to retire is non-existant. Job security is a joke. etc.
 
user8104581
Most people that dream of moving there likely don't even have the competence to move to any other country. Language barriers, education, independence.
 
Right now we're experiencing massive brain drain anyway
All the smart people from Europe and Asia are leaving
 
user8104581
The intellectual community doesn't seem very supportive of Trump then
 
1:36 PM
more like he's not very supportive of them
 
US was great some 20 years ago. I dunno what happened, maybe it's greed. Greed ruined communism too. Personal I think it's okay to get more if you created more for society. But there are people try to obtain more when obviously they have contributed nothing important, some even succeeded, thus encourage more to follow their steps.
 
@TelKitty a lot of things happened, but it started with Reagan. Just like Thatcher ruined the NHS
Basically all the protections we've had for workers have been systematically rolled back over the last 40 years
but honestly it was probably all done for mostly racist reasons
 
Greed, obviously certain people want more out of the pie.
 
It's that, coupled with the fact that there is racial privilege here. In many places it's really really bad still. So people will vote against their own interest on paper because they know it won't apply to them
Of course the governments won't let you study that per se.. but the rate of benefits declination for someone with a black sounding name is MUCH higher than for someone with a white sounding one.
 
It's also following certain logic. You define value one way and make companies maximize that value then at some point they'll influence politics to maximize their value gain. It still seems like more neoliberal policies get introduced everywhere more and more.
 
1:47 PM
@PeterT Bribery is alive and well
 
It's not just the US, I mean everywhere globally especially in wealthier nations. You see that with Japans try to push their female population into the workforce
fuelled more and more through the back door with trade deals as well.
 
@PeterT That's their latest tactic, get it in a trade deal so everybody has to implement a horrible policy
 
But, eh. Why am I complaining. I'm too lazy to get off my ass and do anything about it (other than vote ofc).
 
user8104581
It's good complaining. Other people end up aware of it and spread the information.
 
user8104581
Works both ways though :)
 
3:02 PM
What if I told you I get zero holidays off
(there is a huge 'but')
 
I know all the weird "take as many days off as you need" shenanigans that some tech companies pull
 
I don't work in tech.
union laborer job..week on, week off. 7x12 hour days. But that means I get 178 days off each year :D
normal would be like..52 weeks, times 2 days for weekend =104 days + holidays? even at '30 holidays', I get an extra 40+
 
well I guess that has its upsides. I might not fancy 12 hour days, but I guess it's not like I get much done after a work day, so I would work 12 hour days if I'd still have to make the same hours.
 
pros and cons. i do nothing after work ..but 7 days off in a row is nice.
 
3:54 PM
@traducerad The BT instruction IIRC.
 
4:27 PM
@Mysticial other than intrinsics is there any way to get a compiler to emit that instruction?
 
@Mgetz Exactly as written. if (x & COMPILE_TIME_MASK)
MASK needs to have only 1 bit set.
 
hmm... guess I'm wrong
nvm, it uses an immediate.
 
yeep
 
There we go. Slightly different from what I remembered:
 
4:36 PM
@Mysticial which is interesting because the intrinsic only takes signed
That said I may have to save that as a portable(ish) bit test
I think gcc might actually have borked code gen for binary numbers godbolt.org/z/Opfivp
 
lolwut
 
literally go out of my way to make it easy for the compiler... and it ignores it
and does weird things
 
n o i c e
 
even ICC does dumb things
I suspect because it's not worth it to optimize for that case
 
5:24 PM
@Mgetz Binary representation of the number seems irrelevant. Test with hex and decimal generate similar code. e.g., godbolt.org/z/zvmEoB
 
user10957435
Lol, that moment when you see "std::cout returns a value" and think "What?" Somehow I missed the n at first... stackoverflow.com/questions/57188234/…
 
@Mgetz Looking more carefully, the compiler is actually conforming. You defined square to return a bool, but didn't return a value. That gives UB. Add return false, and it also correctly tests for the bit: godbolt.org/z/VQ_dkw
I guess for cases like this, I can't exactly blame Linus for his strongly negative reactions.
 
@JerryCoffin originally I just returned directly. Then I tried the if to see if that changed anything
 
@Mgetz I'll take your word for it. It is interesting, however, that adding the return changes the preceding behavior, completely unrelated to the return value. We should find some faq about UB, and put this in there as a demo.
 
@JerryCoffin surprised I didn't get a warning?
That said it is UB...
 
5:38 PM
@Mgetz Only slightly. You can get a warning if you ask nicely enough (or if you just use MSVC): godbolt.org/z/1c9tdw
 
Looks like GCC did warn, I just didn't see it
I don't know what it is... but I can't focus worth crap after 10am
 
@Mgetz Is "between midnight and 4 am" before or after 10am?
 
that's after I've gone to bed
 
@Mgetz I didn't look carefully, but I'd certainly hope that a compiler would give a warning before it went completely insane.
 
Now I'm trying to figure out what logical reason the compiler would have to continue compiling that. I realize it's not ill formed per se... or I don't think it is. But is there any legitimate use to that case (when not throwing an exception)
 
5:49 PM
@Mgetz Early to bed and early to rise makes you healthy, wealthy and wise too sane to write code.
 
The case I'm supposing about is the one where the compiler can prove a function has a path that cannot return or throw and exception
 
@Mgetz ...and the best part is that it doesn't even have to prove that path is ever actually taken--the mere fact that it exists relieves the compiler of all responsibilities.
 
Oh I'm aware, I'm just trying to figure out why you'd still compile after that instead of just being lazy and failing
with integer overflow etc there are valid albeit small uses
 
@Mgetz Yeah, I didn't figure it was news, just that it bore repeating. I can see why it would continue compiling. Not so much why it would do anything quite that stupid. I think I liked the C rule better: flowing off the end without returning a value is allowed--you only get UB when/if you try to use the value it didn't return.
And yes, I suppose I can see how this probably came about (e.g., assuring against creating difficult cases dealing with copy elision) but it's annoying nonetheless.
 
No idea, it just was something that struck me as it was very clearly a deliberate decision on the part of each compiler to do what they did
 
5:59 PM
@Mgetz Yup--and not a unique one either. E.g., with the code you originally linked, switching from gcc to clang produces similar results.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:24 PM
lol flag:
in Android, 52 mins ago, by Dave S
you are an annoying little twit so seriously stfu about it
 
@Mysticial it is technically against chat guidelines
 
@Mgetz It's definitely flag-worthy. Just that SO chat has been so dead that these are rarity as opposed to daily occurrences.
 
blame SE and discord
tbf I'm waiting for the discord apocalypse to come too
 
Change of topic. AMD's move to delay the 16-core to September is genius. They can't even keep the 12-core in stock.
Huge opportunity to dump all those broken chiplets. lol
 
@Mysticial I'm still wondering if it was intentional or just "we can't get yields high enough so we'll stockpile"
@Mysticial still kicking butt and taking names, if the 12 core preforms that well... then preorders on the 16 are going to be nuts
 
7:33 PM
@Mgetz Hard to say. I'm leaning toward intentional. But there's room for an alternate explanation.
 
@Mysticial Genius and not. If they put a tiny number on the market, I can see prices going (much) higher than list price, helping its perception as a truly high-end part.
 
@Mysticial I suspect Thread ripper is playing into it as well
you can't just mix and match on their performance targets
it would look really bad if one chiplet turbos to 4.8 and one to 3.9
 
As in, they don't necessarily know what the supply/demand for the good bins are. So putting it off is a good way to hoard the good dies until they have a better feel for the market.
 
For years AMD has been seen as pretty much the budget alternative, and something that combats that perception could be good for them--the halo effect could help drive up prices for their lower binned parts as well.
 
probably, they can also sneak ship good dies in lower parts if they want
 
7:36 PM
Sounds like I'm gonna need to preorder the 3950X the moment it opens up.
 
@JerryCoffin I suspect it will, people will get suckered into thinking the 3400G is a zen2 part
 
Likewise, the mobo that I'm watching also can't seem to stay in stock.
Nor do the 32GB DIMM memory.
 
@Mysticial which board?
and how hard to you plan to overclock or try to just let it turbo?
 
ASRock X570M Pro4
@Mgetz TBD. I'll do whatever the 240 AIO allows.
I more or less already have the system assembled except for: CPU, mobo, ram
 
@Mgetz I wasn't thinking so much of that (where intentionally misleading a customer to believe it was Zen 2 would be fraud) as, say, a 5-level Zen 2 part, where Intel can compete perfectly well.
 
7:38 PM
Also missing the top and back fans. But those need to go in after the mobo since they'll get in the way.
 
@Mgetz I don't have much of a choice. That's the only X570 mATX.
The only other option is to not go X570.
 
@Mysticial watch until he talks about the controller
you may want to go x470 and get a better VRM
unless you NEED PCI-E 4.0
 
Pff modern C++
 
That and he flat out says that mATX is basically dead to vendors
 
7:44 PM
@Mysticial "I've got an entire car except for the engine, transmission, and body."
 
they don't care
@Nils did you come to troll or actually talk?
 
How should I write a function that returns a sequence of objects by the type of their common base class?
No I am serious.
The function can create sequences of different objects but they all have a common base class so it will return pointers to the base class?
std::vector<std::unique_ptr<Base>> createSeq();
 
@Nils If you're dealing with inheritance, you (mostly) can't deal with objects directly. You pretty much have to deal with pointers (or references, but not for a collection).
 
@Mysticial Yeah that board is not going to overclock well, it's discrete MOSFETs and a garbage VRM
 
But then I have other functions that also use these objects and they don't take the same pointer type as arguments.
 
7:47 PM
@Mgetz There are no X470 mATX at all.
 
@Nils Yes. Though you might want to look at boost::ptr_vector instead of vector<unique_ptr>.
 
@JerryCoffin Yes I know that, but the unique_ptr, shared_ptr, etc classes introduce so much friction in my code base!
@JerryCoffin Hummmm that would be an option.
 
@Mysticial I'd almost just suggest risking it with ITX, at least you'll get better overclocking support
 
@Mgetz Not enough ram slots.
 
7:49 PM
@Mysticial test bench it and just use an actual ATX board?
 
Haha
I have seem the slides some years ago
 
@Mgetz I kinda hate ATX because they're unnecessarily big. But seeing as how nobody makes mATX boards anymore, I'm probably gonna be forced there anyway.
 
@Nils Halfway serious. Is there a reasonable way to avoid inheritance?
 
It is not that I have deeply nested hierarchies, just a common base class
 
I'm already forced into ATX for HEDT builds.
 
7:50 PM
@Mysticial if you want a VRM that will support your overclocks.. you basically have no choice
 
Use golang or C!
:D
 
But those are higher-end builds which also benefit from a larger radiator that would require an ATX case anyway.
 
At the moment I just consider using plain old pointers with manual delete when necessary.
 
@Mysticial you do realize that the 16 core is predicted to be able to easily scale to 300W of heat if you can cool it?
 
@Nils Any possibility that you can (for example) incorporate the base class functionality via a template argument instead?
 
7:52 PM
@Mgetz I'm not sure the chip is gonna allow that much headroom to get anywhere close to 300W.
 
like the VRMs on the high end x570 boards are technically rated in some cases for upwards of 900w (no you can't actually draw that)
 
@Nils Reminds me of the opening line from an ancient song ("The Night Chicago Died"): "Back in the bad old days..."
 
I'm not gonna do a manual all-core OC because that kills the idle throttling.
 
@Mysticial given some of the insane VRMs we're seeing in x570.... I'm not sure
 
@JerryCoffin Well in my case the base is google::protobuf::Message
 
7:52 PM
And the whole PB vs. PBO video on GN kinda hints that there isn't much room left anyway even if you increase the thermals.
 
gigabyte did an Honest to god 14 phase VRM
 
@Mgetz I think a lot of those are built for LN2 manual OC.
 
But if I have then a function that operates on the sequence and I use iterator templates (for begin / end) I could do that.
HOWEVER then a lot of code ends up in header files.
 
@Mysticial I realize that, but the point is that allegedly even with an AIO board partners were seeing lots of draw possible
 
@Nils Oh God! Yeah, if I knew of a way to keep that from getting messy, everybody I work with would worship the ground I walk on.
 
7:54 PM
@Nils so two different and equally painful ways to footshotgun
 
@Nils Sure does.
 
I love it when people say that go is a safe language... until they actually try to use some core language features
 
@Mgetz The AIO isn't gonna be able to dissipate more than 200W sustained.
 
Haha
 
So I'm pretty sure that'll be the limiter before the VRMs do.
 
7:56 PM
@Mysticial eh... dunno, I don't really think that board will support the 16 core. I concur with buildzoid on this. Even without overclock you'll throttle early on that board due to voltage issues.
 
@Mgetz I'm quite convinced that there are safe languages. Just for example, I don't expect to see a serious virus written in Malbolge anytime soon.
 
@JerryCoffin But the seats and air conditioning are important too!
 
@JerryCoffin or brainfuck
 
@Mgetz IOW, none except for the highest end and most expensive ATX and EATX boards will be able to do that.
Let alone any of the mATX ones.
 
@Mysticial nah most of the boards will support it insofar as they are using powerstages. Realistically for a 16 core you need an 8 phase vrm paper capable of 500w
 
7:59 PM
@Mgetz That would actually be quite a bit easier. I wouldn't expect anybody to write it directly in brainfuck, but it'd be pretty easy to write a compiler that generated brainfuck as its output. Of course, given the average implementation of brainfuck, it'd be hard for it to do much to the surrounding machine, but you could at least do arbitrary nastiness inside the implementation.
 
it'll never draw that... but you have to have parts efficient enough for it
 
Haha not a fan either
"Anyway the memory leak is gone now which is great, but my frame-rate dropped from the 60 FPS I was throttling too down to 10 FPS (sometimes dipping to 2 FPS)"
Lol how shall I deal with this professionally?
So far: Just use RAII whenever possible! For the rest unique_ptr then shared_ptr
 
@Nils I've worked on code that already used those, but (Jerry's dirty little not-so-secret) have yet to write original code that used a smart pointer.
4
 
o rly?
you new and delete everything?
 
No just the few cases where I cannot leverage RAII or something like the composite pattern.
Well actually I am just thinking about it.
 
8:07 PM
I meant @JerryCoffin
 
@Puppy Rarely do that either. Just almost never use anything that looks/acts/feels like a pointer at all.
 
fair enough
 
@Mysticial Oh god I looked up the actual VRM on that board... it's absolutely atrocious, even if it can supply the current the ripple will be bad enough it could damage the CPU
 
@Mgetz So are there any mATX boards that don't suck?
 
@Mysticial maybe for intel?
 
8:11 PM
For that matter, I've only used std::optional once, and found it too pointer-like for my taste. I have sometimes returned a vector that wasn't at all likely to contain more than one element though, so it was pretty much either empty or one item.
 
I suspect they aren't really intending mATX to get used for those chips, they are intended for the 6-8 core
 
@Mgetz Couldn't be. Ripple is good for you.
 
@JerryCoffin yeah but CPUs are closer to teetotallers
 
@Mgetz I knew there was a reason I didn't trust them!
 
It feels like I spend too much time thinking "How can I do this really well with C++" instead of focusing on the actual CS problems.
 
8:16 PM
@Nils just wait until the hipster tells you to do it in rust
 
 
@Mgetz Seems unlikely. Rust is like...years old by now. True hipsters have to have moved onto something else by now.
 
@JerryCoffin or just gone back to erlang
 
@Mgetz Nah I am waiting for something like Jai
 
@Mgetz Or, of course, languages like Smalltalk and Lisp that have stayed far enough away from the mainstream that they remain in the hipster pantheon forever.
 
8:21 PM
@Mysticial for what it's worth Buildzoid is recommending Gigabyte then Asus for low end x570
then MSI then ASRock
 
@Mgetz I'm committed to mATX anyway. So the best I can do is to pick the best of those.
 
@Mysticial AFAIK gigabyte has the itx and no matx
I don't think anybody else is going to put out an matx board for x570
 
I do know Gigabyte in recent years has come up with the better boards in terms of VRMs. Did a ton of research on that (mostly on the cooling aspect) for X299.
But those will pull 500W+. (though my builds start temperature throttling at around 250 - 300W.)
 
@Mgetz Always interesting to deduce whether somebody (in their mind) spells out an abbreviation like matx or pronounces it as a word, based on whether they use "a mATX" or "an mATX".
 
My 1800x is on a Gigabyte mATX. (B-series) The VRM on that does overheat, but easily solved with active cooling.
 
8:27 PM
@Mysticial It's amazing how many overheating problems can be fixed with just a few gallons of liquid helium...
 
I will read a book and think about C++ tomorrow again
cu!
 
@Nils Later.
 
@Mysticial so apparently those MOSFETS are rated at 35-40 amps, so realistic max draw on them is 20 before they overheat, you'll have (I assume) 16 of them so even if you push it that VRM is going to have serious heat issues. At this point I'd almost wait to see what comes out with B550. Or just grab an ATX board
if you only have 8 for the highside MOSFETs then you're capping out at 160A draw
 
Oh hey, a new MSVC version about a day after I nudged them a bit: https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/content/problem/549433/mixing-integer-and-floating-point-sse-intrinsics-l.html
Fix is in 16.3 though, so I need to wait for one more release.
 
which will definitely limit your 16 core to garbage speeds
current base estimated CLC power budget for the Ryzen 3k series 16 core is estimated at 200w minimum
 
8:32 PM
@Mgetz My 1800x is on this: Gigabyte GA-AB350M-Gaming 3
 
@Mgetz I think we should return to simpler days: a humungous transformer, a giant filter cap, and a simple linear regulator to remove ripple heat the house.
 
you really like buying boards with garbage VRMs
 
@Mgetz Not a lot of choices at the time.
 
true, but you don't have to inflict that on yourself this time... you can return the case and get something that supports a full ATX
 
@Mgetz Do any of the B-series boards have good VRMs?
@Mgetz No. I said I want a small build.
 
8:36 PM
@Mysticial AFAIK most of Gigabyte and Asus B450 does
 
@Mgetz B450 didn't exist back in 2017.
 
@Mysticial and I don't have a time machine
 
They also would've had to be mATX.
 
@Mysticial also apparently no most of the B350 VRMs were absolute garbage apparently and were "you can overclock on this, but you're going to need a fan. if you really want to overlock you should really use x370"
apparently most boards were discrete MOSFETs and garbage ones at that
 
@Mgetz I actually tried to look for an X370 mATX back then. Didn't exist until maybe a year or so later.
Was willing to pay up for it too.
 
8:44 PM
I guess what I'm trying to say is... either buy bigger RAM sticks and go ITX or go for a box top ATX. That said it's not my computer, but I wouldn't judge that CPU in that motherboard because you're going to leave a LOT on the table that you don't need to.
 
@Mgetz I actually intend to run 4 x 32GB on this thing. The problem is that the 32GB DIMMs are neither the type I want nor do they want to stay in stock.
My main hesitation of looking below X570 isn't so much the PCIe4, but the lower memory speeds and the lack of 32GB DIMM support/certification.
I don't think Zen 2 has enough OC room left to justify maxing out the build like I do with with my X299 machines.
IOW, I don't anticipate to be able to pull more than 150-180W sustained on it - limited by the AIO and the chip itself.
 
whoa, I think I built spidermonkey in less than 1m
@Mgetz what's wrong with discrete FETs? if you're doing power hungry thing there is no much alternative to discrete components
 
9:06 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix they have really high resistance gate to source compared to integrated power stages among a lot of other problems
a standard smart power stage can deliver 40A on a 60A rated stage
a standard Discrete MOSFET isn't rated for more than 40 and can deliver 20
 
by high resistance it's how much?
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix 3-6Ohms
vs 0.5Ohms
 
some of my fets have around 0.025ohm
if not mistaken
 
at 60A? and 400MHz switching frequency?
at 1.2 v?
derp not 400MHZ, 400KHz
 
Does resistance hurt more than just power efficiency?
 
9:17 PM
@Mysticial yes switching time
which hurts ripple, droop, and a term I'm forgetting that's basically lag
the lag between the controller changing the setting to the driver and the CPU getting the power
reasonably speaking most high end boards run at switching frequencies of 400-500KHz
most lower end boards with discrete MOSFETs run in the 200KHz range because they LITERALLY can't go faster without wasting a ton of power
 
@Mysticial If we were dealing with pure static resistance, probably not. I'm pretty sure what matters here is the rise time when we turn on the fet. While the fet turns on, it's both dissipating a fair amount of current and limiting the current it can supply to the target. When fully turned on, it might have a resistance of 5 miliohms, but might take 6 nS to get from turned off to turned on, and at higher frequency, that becomes a significant percentage of the time.
The time it takes to turn back off can be even more significant--on the order of 15-20 nS is fairly common, even for a fet designed specifically for this sort of application.
 
@JerryCoffin Thanks for explaining what I can't and doing it very well. Yeah the rise time and the switching frequency really kill you on discrete parts
 
9:36 PM
hmm just check the ones I have are 0.2Ohm for 100v / 10A
and the maximum switching is probably close to 10Mhz but I guess that in reality it's much smaller
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix yeah you're not powering a modern desktop CPU with that
 
@JerryCoffin You mean if the switching time is so fast that the fets are more often in transition time than on or off state?
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Sounds reasonable--but for SMPS, a lot of what you care about are the rise and fall times when turning on and off. So draw your impedance as you turn on and off, and it comes out something like a normal square wave, with normal rise and fall times:
 
23ns for rise/fall time on mine
but I used them for stepper motor control so I'm no where near the requirement to be worried about this
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Okay, so one cycle (turn on, turn back off) is a minimum of 46 ns, so theoretical maximum switching frequency is about 21 MHz. But at that frequency, the effective impedance is drastically higher than the rating--averaging over time, it's somewhere around halfway between the impedance when turned completely off, and when turned completely on (ignoring, for the moment, the shape of curve of rise/fall times).
 
9:49 PM
there are also 2 delay time for to turn on and off apparently Not sure exactly what are those numbers thought, the FET is the IRF520N
turn on/off delay time
 
So I take it that putting a 64-core Rome Epyc in this mATX is probably an amazing idea?
 
Typically you'd want efficiency of at least 95% in the transistor, which means it has to remain turned on (or off) for about 20 times as long as it's spending switching between the two, so your maximum switching frequency would be around 1 MHz. But, as the frequency drops, you lose efficiency in the transformer, so you try to balance between the two.
 
@Mysticial seems like a good choice, I almost bought this one
 
If AMD throws a curve ball and has AVX512 in Epyc (since AMD refused to confirm its absence) I'll do it.
 
I'll keep that 20time as long in mind, guess that can be something to think about in a H-Bridge to prevent shorting out the fets
 
9:53 PM
Not the 64-core though. Just the 32-core.
 
after installing my x399 prime I'm a bit disapointed by the EATX format
 
I'll need to figure out the AIO though since it isn't big enough for the TR socket.
 
yes, if you want to use the 4 memory slot, you'll probably need water cooling
my noctua overlap on 2 slots so unless I switch to water cooling I can only use 6 slots out of 8
 
Or rather, the water block won't cover then entire TR socket and there's no mounts for TR. It is bigger than the circular Asetek blocks, but there are TR mounting brackets for those - even if they don't cover the entire surface.
 
also watchoot for case if you can flip the psu.. matrexx55 doesn't let you flip the psu bottom or up
 
9:57 PM
I can easily defer the AIO for a future build.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix That's not a hard and fast rule--just what it happens to work out to if you want something like 95% efficiency in switching. Point is much more that if you just add up rise and fall times, and try to switch that fast, it's gonna get ugly.
 
Ah shit. The other problem is potentially the PSU - which is only 700W. But a 240 AIO is probably gonna thermally cap the CPU below that limit.
And I won't be running any crazy GPU.
 
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