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12:12 AM
@Mysticial If they can generate circuitry denser than they can power, that leaves them more space to include redundant circuitry to increase yields.
Gotta figure the only way nVidia (for the most obvious example) can produce the gargantuan dies they do now is by having a lot of redundant circuitry. I doubt they plan on any parts being defect-free on a die that's over 700 square mm.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:32 AM
If the circuit can reduce unnecessary resistance, it can cut down power consumption by reducing heat.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:09 AM
Information content: none.
 
3:58 AM
@sehe you know, the...*other* side
the chaotic dark place
 
@sehe Dicksword
 
where the hive of scum and villainy migrated
after the Maderator incident
you should visit sometime ;)
 
indeed you should, we have lots of trans people relevant information regarding your current work
see sehe, you just never come around anymore
you really should visit sometime, bring the kids, too
we'll've a lovely time, innit jagged
 
indeed, wot
oh, speaking of interesting things
-3
Q: C++ C14 book notation

Tomasz KaletaCould someone explain to me this notation from Stroustrup's book? template<typename Cont, typename Pred> std::vector<Value_type<Cont>*> find_all(Cont& c, Pred p) { std::vector<Value_type<Cont>*> res; for(auto& x :c) if(p(x)) res.push_back(&x); return res; } How should I und...

I, for a pile of rocks, feel this question has some merit
OP is:
- doing research
- confused about some code
- provides all relevant code he thinks is necessary
- points out a specific part he's having trouble understanding
alas, since OP vanished into the ether upon posting the question, we shall never know if his question was truly answered
 
went to sleep, posting quostians is very exausting
 
4:31 AM
@jaggedSpire get a necromancer badge
 
Many interneter have split personalities ... I mean same user has a few accounts on the same site they use.
I know people ... I mean ... moderator level people who use inferior personality account to post low quality questions.
 
5:32 AM
whatsup old dudes
 
5:51 AM
@Mikhail I don't have any of Stroustrup's books
my local library district has what I think is the relevant one, though
 
6:26 AM
@TelKitty I was tempted to ask what "moderator level people" meant, but then thought for a moment, and decided I really didn't care.
 
@JerryCoffin moderators and CMs
 
@TelKitty Most of the power consumed in a CPU (or GPU, etc.) is from reactance, not resistance. The few parts that are (sort of) resistance, are things that are intended to be insulators, but actually leak some current (so to reduce power usage and heat, you'd want to increase the resistance, not reduce it).
 
Well - to reduce the resistance of conductors and increase the resistance of insulators.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:33 AM
@JerryCoffin what will you do at a committee meeting? :o
 
@Morwenn Cause trouble, most likely.
 
yay /o/
you might find rmf, Griwes and ThePhd over there, be careful
 
Honestly, I doubt I have a lot to contribute, but it should be interesting to watch anyway.
 
they're plotting a coup to decide the future of C++
 
coup de grace? :D
 
7:42 AM
coup d'état
 
@JerryCoffin would you wear a t-shirt with your SO picture? so they would know that they're dealing with live Markov chain and they're doomed already, of course
 
@login_not_failed I don't think most committee members spend enough time on SO to recognize it.
 
8:11 AM
@Morwenn coup de l''etat ç'est moi
 
8:21 AM
@Morwenn When I read rmf, I immediately thought of 'rm -f' ~_~
 
8:47 AM
There is a good chance I might be visiting Canada sometimes between March to May next year. I don't have any incentive at the moment to also visit the U.S., but consider jet lag, I might as well making a week or two stop some where along the east coast.
 
@Mikhail Yet another reason to dislike Rust: its developers are such tasteless morons they don't even recognize what complete crap HP Lovecraft writes.
 
9:08 AM
I somewhat liked the Call of Cthulhu though
 
How to write neural network using NAND gates.
Very interesting ...
 
@TelKitty implement a full CPU and program accordingly
 
@ratchetfreak Things you might like: Geek play set
 
Ven
Hi
 
9:36 AM
Hey it's Ven :D
 
Ven
\o/
 
When your SMTP connection fails because you've been feeding an empty string instead of "localhost" >.>
 
When your brain fails because you haven't been feeding yourself anything
 
If I was a chicken I would not say anything like that.
 
All I've eaten this week is a box of cereal with a side of template substitution failure errors.
 
9:39 AM
Me everyday
 
@TelKitty If I was a kitten I wouldn't be talking in a chat room
 
That's what a kitten would stay to remain undercover
 
Can you stop exposing me?
 
So I was the only one who have been eating like a giant hog :(
 
9:44 AM
Feed me.
 
@SombreroChicken would you rather I expose myself? :3
 
@Morwenn Now we're getting somewhere
 
The love story between a lady and a chicken.
I have eaten too much, I need to go for a jog.
 
10:28 AM
The SLS mobile launch platform itself looks out of this world dimension-wise
 
 
1 hour later…
11:39 AM
hello!
anything interesting in the C++ world? :O
 
Ven
The suffering
 
Sorry, I wanted to ask about anything new and interesting ;)
 
12:00 PM
@BartoszKP don't just toss around naked news, please!
it hurt my eyes pretty badly
 
@login_not_failed sorry, I don't follow
 
@login_not_failed :)
 
12:13 PM
@BartoszKP we might have scope_exit and friends in C++20
 
Ven
ooh
 
LWG asked for yet another revision of the papers though x)
Which could be the 14th revision of the proposal if I'm not mistaken
 
12:32 PM
@Morwenn Quite nice!
 
1:25 PM
Tricky things to be added to C++ are tricky: stackoverflow.com/questions/52062386/…
 
 
1 hour later…
2:26 PM
Mood::Mood() = default;
 
mood::mood() = big;
 
3:03 PM
Morning mood
 
Ven
3:15 PM
Worning wood
 
Morwood
 
Ven
Morwenn's wood?
 
Only for those who deserve it :3
 
3:36 PM
Wormwood good mood
 
4:25 PM
-1
Q: What metrics can we consider for welcoming?

Masked ManSince the company has decided to move their goalpost from being a high quality low noise Q&A repository to becoming a welcoming community for new contributors, the next logical step is to determine metrics to measure users against this goal. As of now, users are awarded reputation points, which ...

^^ haha
 
Hey, does anyone have a good exercise idea for exceptions in C++?
Like, for teaching exceptions.
For kids who don't have exception experience before - and it has to be in C++ :D
 
Ven
throw them under a bus full of game developers
 
Throwing exceptions from destructors. :)
 
Ven
@Mysticial those kids will need 10 years of therapy
 
nwp
4:53 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Take an example function, like sqrt and go through all the options of expressing disappointment, one of them being exceptions. Try not to be a terrible teacher by dumping a language construct onto them.
 
@nwp I'm going to tell them to just use it without explaining why and then complain when they don't understand it
 
nwp
Nice. You can pick any CS professor position you like!
 
I'm thinking something I/O intensive since C handling of I/O is really painful. I'm thinking that stage 1 would be error codes and stage 2 would be exceptions and we'll talk about tradeoffs.
 
nwp
Why do you default to error codes? People are more interested in solving a problem they cannot solve than in learning about an alternative solution.
Also assert, infinite loop and std::terminate are alternatives worth mentioning.
 
@nwp only because that's one solution they already know.
infinite loop? that's usually hardly an alternative
 
nwp
5:00 PM
It's popular for embedded devices. Device stops working -> attach debugger -> see error. Ideally.
@Mysticial Deleted :( It was glorious while it lasted.
 
 
nwp
@BenjaminGruenbaum This is probably worth watching before hand. Doesn't have anything super interesting and the guy's voice is a bit annoying, but it might save you some work while giving you some confidence of the content being decent.
 
@nwp lol
Thinking about this from another angle. SO is "unwelcoming" because it has lost (never had) its human element. It's so ingrained into the culture to focus on content and content only that we end up stomping out any last bit of "humanness". This ranges from trivial things like stomping out taglines and signatures to bigger things like having no PM system or any sort of social networking features. Since we're all trained to dehumanize users for the sake of content, the end result isn't surprising.
I'm not advocating that SO/SE actually turn into a social network. Since it's what it's strived to distinguish itself from. But the whole unwelcoming/lack of new users problem seems more fundamental to the current model.
 
nwp
5:17 PM
I liked it that way. A system that gets me Q&A is useful. A system that gets me to read and write pleasantries is worthless.
I don't mind allowing PMs actually, but getting the content right is more important than being nice.
 
SO has a buisness model problem. They aren't making enough money. Executives go to the community managers and ask why aren't more people using the website. They aka how do we engage more users. They ask the users that aren't engaged. Those guys reply they were offended or their shit questions were closed. The community managers who probably haven't written a line of code in their lives come back with the survey results, that tell them SO isn't nice to people of color, etc.
It is impossible for the site to ever be friendly enough in the eyes of the people that run it because they are always motivated to increase users, engagement.
 
5:36 PM
@Mikhail In fairness, some of the CMs apparently can write code. For one example, if you look at Shog9's early history, you'll find some perfectly competent answers about C++.
But fundamentally, I think you're correct. SO has kind of the same problem Twitter did for quite a while (and may well still have, for all I know). On one hand, it's become such a fixture of life that many people (at least in its niche) find it hard to imagine a world where it didn't exist--but at the same time, nobody's figured out a way to achieve profits that even come close to matching its ubiquity.
 
nwp
It's as if the guidance for startups that say "Focus on exponential growth. If you make something people like you will find a way to monetize it" wasn't correct after all.
 
Almost. Everybody got paid, except the investors.
 
6:01 PM
@JerryCoffin I've been wondering though. What's different about Facebook and Twitter that makes Facebook so monetizable compared to Twitter?
 
6:14 PM
@Borgleader Another one:
-1
Q: Complaint about being put on hold

David SpectorIf it is appropriate for this forum, I would like to complain about user HBruijn at ServerFault. He keeps interfering with my posts. Now maybe I haven't spent months learning exactly what specific topics are acceptable as questions, but I do find these fora useful for getting questions answered d...

"New contributor"
Compains about moderation.
Gets trashed and closed.
 
@Mysticial I can't claim to have a well-informed opinion on that--I barely use fb, and don't use Twitter at all. That said, my guess would be differences in how they're used. Twitter forcibly limits content size, which I'd guess attracts people who want a short summary of things as quickly as possible. If a person's usage model is to spend the shortest possible time glancing at a few tiny bits of stuff, that doesn't leave much room for feeding them ads.
 
Underlying problem is that server fault is poorly differentiated, also god forbid you actually ask a question about real servers/clusters, because they can't help you.
 
Facebook is much more about getting people to browse through each others' pictures for extended periods of time, which gives them a lot more time to feed the user ads.
 
Overall traffic referrals are going to include direct traffic, social referrals, and paid and organic search traffic (i.e., ads). Facebook was actually shown to drive an average of 23.4% of a site’s traffic to it, compared to Twitter’s 1.0%. For most sites, Facebook drives more than 20% of traffic than Twitter. In all the sites I’ve worked on social media campaigns with, I’ve seen this hold true.
Facebook delivers competition crushing ad performance.
 
6:29 PM
@JerryCoffin Interesting. So by that reasoning, it seems that SO's engagement would land in between Twitter and Facebook. But the total audience is much smaller than either one.
Hence the obsession about growth.
 
Off topic (mostly), but when I'm playing a long video on YouTube that has a lot of adds, I skip ahead to just after each add and once they're gone, I go back to beginning.
 
nwp
Why go through that annoyance when adblockers exist?
 
Because I have trust issues.
And I wasn't sure if that would stop the creator from getting add revenue. But mostly trust issues.
 
nwp
It does stop the creator from getting ad revenue.
 
@Mysticial I dont like "New contributor" because half the time its a homework dump and I wouldnt call that a contribution.
 
nwp
6:42 PM
And yes, typical adblockers report which sites you visit. I consider that less bad than ads.
 
6:56 PM
@Mikhail
What’s better than a single @intel Xeon® processor? Two! Double down and dominate with the top-tier power of the new #PredatorX—fully loaded for gaming, creating, building, and beyond: http://spr.ly/6018DxWXw #IFA18 #NextAtAcer https://t.co/tmZN9xB2ey
^^ Really?!?! Gaming of all things?
Dual Xeon Platinums for 30 grand + memory.
 
good luck
 
+graphics card
 
@Borgleader It is a contribution. Just a negative contribution.
 
7:31 PM
@Mysticial lawl Xeons for gaming
 
@Borgleader I've done it before. Back in 2009.
 
@Mysticial lol, that lower turbo is going to hurt
 
7:50 PM
@Mysticial Its not a question of can you, its a question of should you :Pe
if you already have the Xeon, then fine
but otherwise its a huge waste of money
</captain_obvious>
 
but but but... ~~~XEONs~~~
 
Dude, ecc protects your games from going out of sync
 
ECC ram protects you from getting shot in FPS.
 
No, you're thinking of Mountain Dew
 
@Mysticial My kids do gaming on Xeons all the time. They seem reasonably happy even though the clock speed is lower than my first Pentium IV had.
@Mikhail No, I'm the one thinking of Mountain Dew.
 
8:02 PM
Well std::destroy_at sure seems useless
 
It's slightly less obscure than calling destructor manually, so it's good
 
@JerryCoffin P4's were actually pretty fast.
clock speed wise
 
@Mysticial They were. Especially when you consider that part of the core was running at double the rated clock speed, so a single execution unit could do (for example) two add/sub/and/or/xor/etc., instructions per clock cycle.
 
So basically over 10 GHz overclocked.
 
@Mysticial Sounds about right. And on an (at least) 90 nm process...
 
8:09 PM
4
Q: Was there a P4 model with double-pumped 64-bit operations?

BeeOnRopeI recall that one of the interesting features of the initial P4 micro-architecture was it's double-pumped ALU. I think Intel called it something like the Rapid Execution Unit, but basically it meant that each execution unit in the ALU was effectively running at twice the frequency, and could hand...

 
Of course, things were different then--back then, Intel had fast clocks, but slow processing. For most tasks, something like a POWER or a SPARC only had to run at around 1-1.2 GHz to keep up with, say, a 3-3.5 GHz P4.
 
Good times, good times
 
Yeah, I remember when reading around how basically every instruction on Intel took multiple cycles and weren't fully pipelined.
Nowadays, (since Core 2), everything (even across CPU makers) are converging.
 
@Mysticial The one that just killed me was that the Pentium III had barrel shifters, so any shift took constant time. On a Pentium IV, a multi-bit shift used a micro-coded loop shifting one bit per clock...
 
@JerryCoffin I read about that.
My Pentium D was already after they fixed it.
Now there's so much dark silicon that those corners don't need to be cut anymore.
 
8:22 PM
@Mysticial It's been converging since long before that. Pentium IV was basically just a dead end--pursuit of clock speed at all costs. Other than a few blind alleys, pretty much everything's been converging for decades on the OOO pipeline from the CDC 6600 (circa 1964) and vectored execution (mostly going back to the Cray 1, circa 1976). Seymour Cray died decades ago now, and we're still pretty much just using his designs with better fabrication technology.
 
@JerryCoffin Funny thing is that I started getting into HPC right in the middle of the Netburst -> Core transition.
Also right at the start of the multi-core era.
So I almost completely missed the old days of single-core P4 tuning.
Where a simple piece of code can have drastically different performance on different chips.
Now, specialized instructions aside, what you write will basically run the same everywhere.
 
@Mysticial You didn't miss much. I (at least) found that era fairly painful. The transition from 486 to Pentium was "change everything!". Then from Pentium to Pentium Pro was "change everything again!" Then it was semi-stable for a little while, but the transition to Pentium IV was "yeah, change absolutely everything still again--oh, except for mobile, since Netburst is way too inefficient to even consider using it there." Trivia to memorize and mostly-useless code churn...
 
8:39 PM
NetBurst -> Core 2: Lower clock speeds. Increase efficiency. Multi-core era.
Current Era: Increase clock speeds while maintaining overall efficiency. Tons and tons of specialized instructions.
 
8:53 PM
I really wish I had a butler
 
I really wish I had a butter
 
I can make that wish come true
I'll need something in return though
 
Like a butler? :D
 
That's a deal
I think #include is the ugliest thing in modern cpp
 
@SombreroChicken Reminds me of an old joke about heaven and hell.
 
9:00 PM
I'm ready.
 
In heaven, you get an Italian lover, a German car, a French chef, and an English butler.
In hell, you get a German lover, an English chef, a French car, and an Italian butler.
Note: all Caucasian, so it's technically not racist. :-)
 
Hahahaha
Alright fair enough
I can confirm, German lovers are a nono
Having Mario as my butler would be cool though
 
9:28 PM
Also get paid in American dollars
 
9:47 PM
@Mikhail Maybe in hell. In heaven, I already have so much I don't care about getting paid.
 
10:46 PM
You guys need to be more ambitious - if I wish for anything, I would wish to rule both heaven and hell. But currently I don't wish for anything, I am having fun with my life - it's like one big game with multiple goals.
 
11:18 PM
@TelKitty Ruling well is a lot of work that I'd rather not do (and if I ruled at all, I'd never settle for doing it poorly).
 
That's true. But for ruler's role can be more fun (higher risk, higher return).
 
@TelKitty Heaven is supposed to be the ultimate reward. If you're already not just in heaven, but in charge of heaven, what more do you hope to get?
 
You collect heaven with all the toys inside :x
If you want to catch fish with a gigantic net, you put delicious food inside net, you start with a few apparently very happy fishes inside the net. You want to make it as appealing as you could make it. Then wait for more fishes to get in and you harvest.
 
@TelKitty So your theory is that heaven really isn't heaven--it's actually just a trap?
 
If I want to get more fish in the net, I would not call it a trap either. I call it heaven!
 
11:34 PM
@TelKitty But according to the rules of the game (so to speak) God created heaven, and if he just wanted us to be there, he could have just put as many there as he wanted, and be done with it.
 
@JerryCoffin Think hard: why would God want to do that?
 
@TelKitty By the rules of the game, we're incapable of understanding God's motives.
 
Nowadays I don't look at goals people claim to have, I look at underling motives.
 
@TelKitty So you're basically assuming that God is a person. In that case, heaven obviously just can't exist at all.
 
God is not random, that means God has goals. But what are God's goals?
I don't claim I understand God at all. But neither do I blindly believe.
 
11:40 PM
@TelKitty Again, by the rules of the game, they're simply beyond our understanding.
 
Exactly. Fishes should never understand how trap works.
I would rather my fate to be subject to my own will, not at mercy of someone else's.
Thus ruling.
 
@TelKitty But you're caught in self-contradictory reasoning. You're assuming that heaven does exist, but isn't what's claimed. Seems to me either the claims about it must either be true (in which case, you're perfectly happy without ruling), or else they're false (in which case we're left with no evidence that it exists at all (so your ambition to rule it can't possibly be met, so you're just setting yourself up to be miserable).
 
I am not claiming anything. I am just giving you one possibility. There are more than billions of possibilities. I can show you that almost in all cases subjecting your vulnerability to other's mercies is not ideal.
Even if God takes care of you, there are more than billions others already in heaven, does God place your interest above or below of those others??
 
but god is infinite, so even but a sliver of his infinite care would be more than enough
 
@TelKitty All I see you giving me is an argument that seems free of sense.
 
11:54 PM
If you can accept God to be free of sense, why can't you take anyone else's free of sense? >_<
@ratchetfreak Unless you behave not like you, I don't see how you can live in harmony with everyone else in heaven.
 
everyone you meet in heaven will be a fake anyway
 
including oneself
but that also means heaven is a trap, no one actually goes to heaven
 
@TelKitty I fully accept that you're free of sense.
 

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