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12:18 AM
was thinking of maybe resuming my feeble attempts to crack sha2 from about six years ago
I remembered that I stopped trying because I ran out of RAM
whereas now I have like six times as much
 
1:02 AM
I've been/am writing a baremetal HAL in c++ and the context problem is acute
Currently I use public API with global factory/single-ton. Consumers simply ask for the global "device" object in their execution context. But on the back-end everything is explicit calls and dedicated object hierarchies for every platform/device/api combination
similar to Kernel approach
 
 
5 hours later…
5:38 AM
@Xeo I'm gonna start by watching all the really stupid cliche shows.
1. Beatless
 
 
2 hours later…
7:19 AM
@Xeo Violet Evergarden looks pretty good. A good change of pace after a too much stupid shit.
 
7:34 AM
LOL, Australian legislation can be so stupid - you can dug up to 1m close to the boundary, fencing pole depth 0.6m.
So looks like you can legally making fence to collapse
seriously??
 
7:55 AM
Do you even freedom?
 
I do, I DO!!!
 
8:18 AM
ITT I live in a nanny state
 
@Mikhail pretty gud
@sehe I set it aside at the time cos I was busy, but I have some thoughts to share on your 'Aren't we at risk of reinventing a Range Library?' question if you want
 
 
1 hour later…
9:55 AM
@Mysticial a lot of cute girls shows, one about camping, one about going to antartica, one about having taken a year off before high school, cardcaptor sequel, a yuri show, ...
the biggest stand out show is probably darling in the franxx, it's basically an old-school Gainax show if you check who's working on it
 
Ven
Hi
 
Hi
 
 
2 hours later…
11:41 AM
Hi
@crasic horrible
 
 
1 hour later…
nwp
12:50 PM
@CoderCat dude, not cool
 
Ven
Ah, I forgot you weren't admin @nwp
 
This user has been automatically suspended for posting inappropriate content and cannot chat for 7 days.
good work @CoderCat
 
cicada is that you
7
 
Wowsers...
 
Ven
@JonClements Same!
That was unexpected.
 
12:58 PM
wow finally
 
@ColdFire was there a massive delay then? :p
 
@RobertTroipartrois we know you need to mention yourself, otherwise we might forgot all about you ... or you wouldn't get your accidentally banned as a fake sock ~_~
 
@JonClements yeah flags flying everywhere i saw over 20 flags lol
 
nwp
I feel like it was a reaction time test, not meant to insult anyone.
 
Ven
@nwp Then he'd just have spammed random bullshit.
 
1:02 PM
Oh... Saw 4 by the time I was working on it... No doubt more accumulated during that
 
ban was within a few minutes, acceptable in my book
 
ofcourse i wasnt complaining at all
 
@ColdFire kinda sounded like you were though
 
Gotta run - laters. Have fun.
 
1:19 PM
cya
 
nwp
1:44 PM
Bleh, deleted before it could get properly inappropriate.
 
need someone to undelete?
 
nwp
No, I don't think that would be a good idea.
As much as I value my amusement I don't want to undelete bad SO questions for it.
 
Ven
it has 2 undelete votes :o
 
@nwp I understand
 
2:14 PM
@nwp except someone else didn't, it got undeleted
 
nwp
I think the cheers person honestly believes this is a good question and is somehow heavily invested in it.
I can see that a basic "pascal strings have their size attached" answer would be somewhat useful, but "how do these all differ in their allocation and use" is a bit too broad.
 
in allocation it doesn't really change other than having 8 extra bytes (16 if you add capacity)
in use it means the string doesn't start where the pointer points to and it requires a deref to get at the length
 
nwp
I didn't think pascal strings had a capacity. Also something interesting should happen on strings that have many (> 254-256) characters.
 
and it's possible to implement std::string using (adapted) pascal strings
gcc did that at one point I've heard
 
nwp
There was something similar with std::vector. The size and capacity were supposed to be placed before where the data pointer points to in order to make sizeof(std::vector<T>)==sizeof nullptr. Supposedly that was always how it was supposed to be, but that person (stepanov?) didn't know how to do it.
 
2:33 PM
@nwp so I know several implementations where this is slicing safe... but not aliasing safe
 
i am having a discussion with a fellow developer at work on a config file format which contain dates , the client wants it in YYYYMMDDHHMMSS since it is more human readable, internally it will then get converted to epoch seconds for some manipulation ,
the developer wants it to be epoch seconds in the config file itself - citing that it is CPU intensive to convert all YYYYMMDDHHMMSS to epoch seconds on startup or reload, there is like a total of 200k records . the code will have to read the date , parse it and store into a struct tm t and use mktime on it . Is this really cpu intensive ? this gets done during startup and reload which is not frequent .
 
which timezone?
 
@spakai if you need speed go binary
also CaptnProto
 
at it's base it's looking up the epoch offset on each field
 
@ratchet freak mktime reads the timezone set in linux
 
nwp
2:41 PM
@spakai If you wanted to do it properly you could benchmark both and then tell the client "You can have your YYYYMMDDHHMMSS which adds X seconds to program start and reload assuming 200k records. Are you willing to pay that?"
 
then I suggest goign for a timezone that doesn't do DST
 
thanks guys . this was really helpful.
 
2:59 PM
personally I would suggest if you're going to do timestamps always do them in Zulu
 
always prefer timezones that politics won't screw around with
 
@ratchetfreak UTC AKA "Zulu" time
 
nwp
Stardate clearly
 
3:46 PM
 
 
4 hours later…
7:19 PM
@Borgleader A different kind of stupid:
44
Q: GitHub is misspelled "Github" in the Developer Story page

Michael GearyI noticed a little typo in the Developer Story page: "GitHub" is incorrectly capitalized as "Github". The typo is in two places and perhaps more: If you don't have a GitHub profile linked, then it says "Github" on your Developer Story page. And when you go to edit that section, it also says "Git...

 
"Lundin" being dumb there
 
Just discovered this while going through the 10k tools:
1678
Q: Can (a ==1 && a== 2 && a==3) ever evaluate to true?

Dimpu Aravind BuddhaIs it ever possible that (a ==1 && a== 2 && a==3) could evaluate to true, in JavaScript? This is interview question asked by a major tech company. It happened 2 weeks back, but I'm still trying to find the answer. I know we never write such code in our day to day job, but I'm curious.

That smashes all the records for fastest upvoted. Much more than my branch thingy from years ago.
 
7:37 PM
@Mysticial what a nice demonstration of why reasoning about arbitrarily side effectful languages is borderline impossible (I still don't understand how you can write assembly on daily bases, it would make me want to strangle baby seals)
 
7:50 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Definitely. Going back a few years, there would be question like that every few months (usually about JS or some other dynamically-typed language) that gets attention and goes viral.
 
you say definitely as you call some instruction that flips some bit in some part of the processor that makes the entire program have a completely different meaning from that point on :D
 
@Mysticial oh ffs
 
8:25 PM
I'm not stating the obvious, I'm saying I can't help you if the line makes no sense to me either. You havent said what that line was supposed to do, all you said was "well heres some code that doesnt compile and there heres some more code that doesnt compile" — Borgleader 23 secs ago
face meet palm
 
@ScarletAmaranth You still have standard memory protection in ASM, not all ASM is baremetal
 
@crasic that is completely irrelevant to the discussion
 
I'm saying that it has the same side-effects as c or c++, perhaps even less so
You brought up assembly in context of arbitrarily side effectful languages, I say its not arbitrarily so, its bounds by the parameters of the architecture
 
damn
Lua 5.1 ellipsis looks really annoying to implement
 
8:41 PM
I think it should actually be fairly trivial to implement
 
@Puppy I already have arg implemented
to get ellipsis I'd just need to have the same accessible inside of the closure
but stored in some "special" slot
and stored as a value pack, not a table
 
IIRC all _Caps names are reserved for implementation in Lua
 
@Puppy ooh
 
or maybe it's all entries in _G._V or something like that
 
how bad would it be if I used it
 
8:42 PM
I'm pretty sure there's an imlpementation-reserved namespace
 
it sounds kinda wonky but at the same time it should solve the problem rather easily indeed
 
well
there's a reason why they give you implementation-reserved namespaces
 
one possible annoyance I see here is that I can't store value packs inside of the closures I think
I could store the arg table, and when asked for ... simply evaluate to a list of all values in that table
 
> As with variable names, string keys starting with an underscore followed by uppercase letters are reserved for Lua.
 
I mean Lua 5.2 removes arg altogether and multi-version compat is wayy out of scope for me
well, was
I'm not sure if this has enough impact to put effort into
 
8:46 PM
ellipsis?
 
Damn, Jack Taylor TV series is dark.
 
yes, it does.
 
well it'
 
everybody sane used the ellipsis instead of arg or whatever it was since it was introduced
 
8:46 PM
fair enough
 
and if you have a vaguely decent implementation it shouldn't be complicated to implement
 
3 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
one possible annoyance I see here is that I can't store value packs inside of the closures I think
 
hm
yeah, that sounds like a thing you should fix
the closure structure should probably have a special slot for this
 
well technically Lua doesn't allow you to do that
@Puppy that's what I was thinking
but then it needs to be a stack as well
 
why?
 
8:47 PM
well rn it's type Closure = [TableRef]
consider:
function f(...)
  function g(...)
    print(...)
  end
  g(...)
  g(3,4)
end
f(1,2,3)
 
right, but you have a stack of closures, as it were, already.
you're just adding one extra slot to each closure.
 
type Closure = [(TableRef, Maybe [Value])] would do the trick
 
sounds legit
 
but then it needs special traversal rules and rewrite of all code and uh
okaaaaaay
 
um, why?
 
8:50 PM
@Puppy well all code treating this as a simple list now needs that one extra fst
hmm
 
yeah, but the closure almost certainly needs to be a record/class/struct jobby anyway
 
otoh I think most of it uses this
closureLookupFrom :: Value -> Closure -> LuaM Value
-- descend recursively with lookups, picking the closest name first
 
this is a consequence of you not making it correctly the first time ;p
 
so I'd just need to add closureEllipsisLookup possibly
let's try it
 
personally, I'd rather change it so that when you look up, the thing you're looking up is like string | SpecialLookupJobby.Ellipsis
 
8:52 PM
eh, not much gain over two functions I think
also the ellipsis one wouldn't look at global
also the ellipsis one should return maybe I think
I'm not sure if just the lookup should trigger an error if it fails
 
hm
nah
that's what you should do but Lua almost certainly specifies that you just get back nil or some dumb shit like that
 
nah
it fails if ellipsis is used outside of a vararg function
 
in that case, I'd verify up front that it's only used inside a vararg function and if it isn't, reject the script
 
@Puppy well I can't easily say that without traversing the stack
 
I mean, when you're doing initial parse or analysis, it should be simple to inspect the AST and verify it
 
9:02 PM
@Puppy oh, seems that you're right
function f()
    if false then print(...) end
end

input:2: cannot use '...' outside a vararg function near '...'
damn it
this is just additional work for me really
 
oh, they actually do do the remotely sane thing
 
yeah they're surprising like that
 
it's hard to predict what they will do
 
I literally never rely on intuition when implementing anything here
at the rare times I did I was always wrong
 
they're like, "We do the totally insane thing but sometimes are randomly sane"
 
9:03 PM
makes me want to say "screw Lua it's my own lang now" a lot
 
yeah, except I highly doubt that you actually want a language like Lua
 
the only real value is compatibility with existing scripts so you may as well actually get that benefit
 
anyway, just deciphering their intentions was a super enlighting experience during those years
I think that for people wanting to get into language development it's a much saner way to learn
pretty much similar to gamedev and reimplementing existing mechanics as close as possible
 
dayum that's a hell of an insult for langdev
 
9:06 PM
heh heh
I have no illusions of being special right here
it's just a program like anything else
 
well it's easy for me to criticise, I don't have any personal projects on the go right now really
the only one is porting React to C# but I'm somewhat short on direction there
 
I don't either, just had a random spur of inspiration
 
been thinking about working on a Typescript port since we actually do use that at work
 
and Turnip is just easy to get back into, do a quick improvent and leave for months again
@Puppy isn't that like a binding mostly
 
no, I mean, a full re-implementation of the compiler
it's slow as shit
also they decided to stop implementing features that matter
then again
 
9:10 PM
@Puppy do you think your company would switch over?
 
fully re-implementing the compiler means fully re-implementing their mistakes
maybe
but meh
personal projects are for fun, not for usefulness, so who cares if you implement the most useless shit ever
may as well have fun implementing some pipedream
 
dunno
I've been thinking about a game again
 
me too actually
 
but making them alone sucks and chances of finding a good team are soooo fucking slim
 
clearly we should join forces!
 
9:14 PM
clearly
I was gonna say I'd be fine with being the only developer if I actually had a competent designer and an artist
 
well I still have almost all of the design I was planning on using for Kyrostat
 
I can't even remember what that was supposed to be about
but IIRC it was way too big
 
yeah, that's after other people wanted to join
;p
 
if anything I'd aim for a minimal scope prototype and then just pile up stuff and see what comes out
the ~agile~ way
 
really, it was just an rts in space, that's kinda it
 
9:16 PM
@Puppy I still have my old design docs for Harvest
that planetary runs-in-the-background resource-focused rts
 
@Puppy There is fun in running a personal project like a formal project
 
@crasic Most of us have better setups of tests, CI, spec and issue tracking than a lot of companies :P
 
I registered a .org for a personal project and go through the motions just to see what it would be like to bootstrap an open source project
granted its useful to like 12 people on earth, but still
 
my plan for Kyrostat was fairly tactical
 
@BartekBanachewicz Very true, I am constantly trying to backport CI and issue tracking to my org
biggest victory was moving the entire company from CVS to internal gitlab
in 1 year
 
9:18 PM
@Puppy sc-like?
 
no
 
@crasic gz
 
much more TA-like
physics for projectiles, no armour types
I also decided that it would be much more strategic if you could teleport your units around but it was difficult to teleport out of a fight
 
@Puppy TA?
 
that way there would be this nice element of how much you're willing to commit to a fight
Total Annihilation
 
9:20 PM
I haven't played that one
 
well, it's not really like Starcraft all that much
no supply mechanic, continuous income/outcome resources, physical projectiles
and nukes
 
Turnip REPL v0.3.0.0

> return (function (...) return(...) end)(5)
[Number 5.0]
yay. I don't like the impl tho.
 
not the wimpy nukes you get in SC where they hardly do any damage and you have to have a unit living in the immediate vicinity
but real nukes that you just fire from your base and then everything goes boom
if the other guy didn't run away
 
@Puppy mm so much more tactic than I envisioned Harvest
 
yes
 
9:23 PM
it was supposed to be about planetary domination of resources
 
for instance I imagined that whilst you can teleport your units around, the heaviest units have protective shields on only one side
 
something like planetary Go really
 
so if you commit them without support then they teleport their heavy hitters behind you and bad days
 
@Puppy how dynamic would that be?
something like mobas?
 
no
it's full on, build your own base, manage your resources, build your unit choice
 
9:24 PM
mmm. stuff to implement.
if started on pure combat tho
 
well, it wouldn't have to start that way
I imagine it would start on a blank map and you have a debug menu that just spawns whatever shit you want
 
combat is the crucial component of player interaction
 
also only 1 race/faction
 
okay now the crucial Q that will ruin everything
 
was also thinking of starting off or always being 2D rather than 3D
 
9:25 PM
tech stack
 
undecided
 
Love2D?
Canvas + TS?
 
probable choice if I actually wanted to make progress may be Unity
but I've not fully evaluated all my choices
 
all 3 have fairly similar functionality
 
thing is that if I use Unity, I can choose to move to 3D more easily, I think
and I am semi-concerned about the projectile physics
I've heard that it's a lot more complicated than you might think
and I would almost certainly not choose to use Lua since ewwww dynamically typed
 
9:29 PM
what's the gh pages default link scheme for projects?
 
don't remember
 
the idea is that you build harvesters to gather resources, plants to generate energy, links to move energy around and turrets to defend
it's copied from Harvest: Massive Encounter, which is a rather simple, but quite fun game
 
I could make something like that with my homebrew ui jobby, I think
 
well anyway I think the TS version got the furthest from all 3 prototypes
and it's obviously the easiest one to share around
 
TS ain't a bad language
 
9:36 PM
it was 4 years ago ;)
 
it's no C# or C++
we could do something in Typescript perhaps
 
this prototype also used WebGL for whatever reason
I guess browsers could do 3D nowadays if asked nicely
 
yeah I've seen some demos of it, nothing production though
 
@Puppy even if the initial excitement needs to fade and then we'd need to look at what we'd like to get playable
I think I'd be most interested in implementing the renderer
I've been thinking lately about all my old projects and how they used kinda immediate drawing scheme
all except Hate. I think the pure "message" or "request" based approach has a lot of potential
 
what is that like?
 
9:43 PM
@Puppy draw :: This -> [A list of stuff to be drawn in some abstract form]
as opposed to having a ref to renderer and sending commands directly
 
so a lot React-like then
 
my UI project in C# is a React port
 
I think we established that like 2 years ago ;)
the huge benefit of that approach is that all game objects don't need that frickin' renderer reference
drawing becomes regular, pure logic
 
yep
 
9:45 PM
you don't need to track your own sprites or anything
they can be loaded on demand by renderer, changed on the fly, whatever
the commands can be postprocessed easily
the order of drawing doesn't matter
 
I'm enjoying those benefits right now
 
again, I know this sounds rather obvious to you but still
 
well you can feel free to join me
I have some basics down but there's plenty of scope for improvement
 
in the UI project? meh, I'm not into C# that much
 
hmm
 
9:47 PM
and I don't even know React actually
implementing such renderer for a game could be interesting tho
 
so... implement in TS, render react-ish to canvas/webgl?
 
@Puppy sounds reasonable
 
not entirely sure how we would go about divvying such a thing up
how would the UI work?
like, do we just have a canvas for the 2d/3d stuff and use regular DOM for UI elements?
name suggestions?
 
10:02 PM
I have seen a few British TV series recently and the MD is always of Indian descent.
 
10:13 PM
@Puppy ye
@Puppy well the renderer api sounds like a good division point
 
yep
I am thinking we will define a state interface, then I will render the UI and probably handle most of the game logic, and then let you worry about rendering to the canvas
 
sounds fair
i can do sounds in the same manner
 
any objection if I use react, redux, etc on the UI side?
 
none at all
 
sweet
 
10:22 PM
objections on WebGL vs canvas?
 
all up to you
i'll probably set up the project later tonight
 
10:55 PM
@Fanael @Froglegs Update on the 32-registers issue on MSVC: developercommunity.visualstudio.com/comments/186386/view.html
So it looks like maybe a 6-month turn-around time?
Maybe closer to 9 months since 15.6 isn't even out yet.
> Currently the fix is targeted to be fixed in 15.7. But as always, this is for your reference only since 15.7 is a future release.

Charles
They still have yet to fix any of the AVX512 bugs I've reported.
 
11:28 PM
@LucDanton Oh, yes guru-san!
I have the basic intuition that the one_off helper models an infinite sequence of a, b, b, ... so it makes sense to think of range libs there
I sheepishly admit I've avoided RangeV3 very effectively until today
@BartekBanachewicz Häte
@BartekBanachewicz what magic DI wiring
@Puppy me too. And you kept sticking your toes into your PC case
And eating too much cheese
@RobertTroipartrois Oh man. That's so stylish. Shame it blows your own cover immediately
@nwp I agree. It becomes more interesting when you notice that BSTR/(D)COM(+) strings have a length prefix as well, but they point at the first char still
@Mysticial my fault
 
11:45 PM
@sehe More like mine. Been zoned out for much of the past few weeks.
 
What's your influence on this
 
@Mysticial Unless I misread what you say, you say it's your fault that the post got upvoted to heaven because you had been zoning out?
 
@sehe wait, lolno. My fault for the repost because I didn't notice it even though it's a week old.
 
oh, nah. It's not a repost anyways, the numbers are very different
 

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