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12:02 AM
@Mikhail tiny monitor 4 the win!
is it a tiny monitor though? could be a tablet
 
@Mikhail cicc picture dude
 
12:38 AM
@Mysticial @Xeo Just checking, but are you watching Shokugeki no soma S3?
 
Xeo
nope
not interested in that series at all
 
neither am I
 
It's like, really good.
 
I also generally don't watch later seasons if I haven't seen the earlier ones. (with notable exceptions being Macross and Aquarion)
 
12:45 AM
Ok.
 
Can I ask programming-related questions in the chat?

In theory, you can.
Thanks rules
 
Playing games with the PS4 controller is pretty cumbersome. I miss the free mouse movement.
 
nwp
@GrantGarrison C++ questions go here.
 
1:00 AM
@nwp I know, I just thought it was funny that people are answering c++ questions in here and the rules are evading any set rules about it.
 
nwp
I think what the rules want to say is "We only answer interesting questions, not beginner crap". Unfortunately it is very difficult to specify those questions in a way that a noob can tell the difference.
 
People used to talk about C++ normally here.
 
@nwp but tihs is lounge<c++>....
 
nwp
@wilx I guess everyone gets jaded eventually.
@FrankfortKentucky Yeah, emphasis on lounge, which is a place to hang out and relax.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:33 AM
Ugh, the hats are back.
 
link
 
If anyone here follows US politics. Can you believe what you're seeing right now?
 
@Mysticial what's going on?
 
@Yashas One of the deepest red states just elected a blue senator.
 
3:38 AM
Huh, people vote blue because they are in a blue state and vote red because they are in a red state otherwise?
 
@Yashas For the far right/left states, yes that's definitely the case. Alabama is one of those.
 
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of an election?
 
Apparently not tonight.
 
why are you surprised, poorer people elected trump in but pretty much all trump's policies favour the rich over poor
 
4:11 AM
@Yashas that is a simplification that ignores the stratification in the country, it is half the picture
 
@crasic Just for this election though. It took a pedophile to just barely flip the state.
 
The other half is that she was 14
 
@Mysticial No, every election, for example 2016, same stratification, just less pronounced
 
@crasic That looks pretty red to me.
 
62/34 yeah, but notice that most areas are veryt polarized
 
4:15 AM
also
 
The funny part is that NYT had it right the whole time - while the rest of the news sites kept only looking at the raw count.
 
@Mysticial They do monte carlo or something similar, and rerun the simulation with real data replacing randomized sampling
About half way through, their model flipped hard, its interesting to study
but their confidence interval was spot on
 
@crasic This election had a very strong bias in reporting times. The blue areas were really slow to report in. NYT's model tracked this as well. CNN looked at it a bit, but didn't emphasize it enough.
It looked a lot like Virginia during last year's presidential election.
 
@Mysticial Monte carlo will account for that, however the innacruacy of initial predicitons for the later counties would have a much larger effect
Its like weather prediction
 
All the red areas came in first. And Virginia was like solidly 5-10% red. But they hadn't counted anything near Arlington yet.
 
4:21 AM
Run the model 1000 times with fuizziness added, if 600 simulations go one way and 400 go the other way, bam 60% likelihoiood
As results come in, there is less fuzziness to go around
The final result was within their initial confidence interval
It doesnt help that it was Not Distinguishable from 0 in this case so it was a coin toss from the start.
Except for the very early initial results, and the one blip in the middle their prediction never went outside the 2 sigma region of the initial prediciton
That is pretty much as good as it gets for this type of data
But even then 90% confidence just means that 1/10 experiments aka elections will go the opposite way than precdicted
95% is 1/20
not that unlikely in context, considering how many elections are held in the US, that quite a few go against polling data
 
when I read twitter/facebook melts down because of (xxx), I don't think what drives the herd to break down those social media, I think about what kind of backward technology would cause those social media to breakdown
 
 
2 hours later…
6:13 AM
google direction doesn't have one for boats
 
6:31 AM
@ArkadiuszKoćma hey look here’s that TP angst, it’s a Wintersday miracle!
 
 
1 hour later…
7:55 AM
@Telkitty when I read "tw/fb melts down" I realize that's not actually the case
And yes it is the herds, and no the tech is not backwards. Next.
 
8:12 AM
@Yashas Ugh, indeed
It's - thankfully - seay to opt out
 
8:38 AM
Easy, even.
 
8:59 AM
@LucDanton ... are you fucking kidding me
 
9:10 AM
@sehe no jobs is easy. that's why i'm trying to minimum the effort. — athos 2 mins ago
Ugh
By asking on SO for the very first trivial steps on the way? That's not minimum effort. That's low effort but not going to get you to the end goal. Have you contacted the library author? — sehe 24 secs ago
@Telkitty aaaaaand that's totally unrelated to todays AL election
 
9:34 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
Ven
11:11 AM
Hi
 
Hey
 
Ven
PHP developers are so stupid it just doesn't make sense.
5:40 "if you can convert a function into a class, then do it. I want each of these two functions to be its own class"
 
Ell
11:49 AM
wat
why would anybody give that advice?
PHP can't even be trusted with OOP :S
 
They put the OOP in NOOB
 
Ven
noop?
.oO( My knowledge is out-of-bounds )
 
hint hint there's a reason why I put it in upper case
 
Ven
:p
 
 
1 hour later…
1:23 PM
@Ven you're contributing to weird projects :p
 
Ven
@Morwenn I'm fixing security bugs is all
 
@Ven still, I wouldn't have thought such a thing existed x)
I was almost tempted to provide a better HelloWorld.cpp instead of the current one
 
Ven
do ett
 
I need to come back home beforehand
 
Ven
it's 2pm ._.
 
1:26 PM
yeah, which is why I'm not home
gimme motivation
 
Ven
1:58 PM
@Morwenn gimme gimme gimme Morwenn after midnight
 
kinky :3
 
0
A: how to rewrite this code without using boost?

seheSo, I looked at that library, and created a no-boost fork adapting the WELL pseudo-random-number-generator to pure c++11. See here on my github: https://github.com/sehe/well-random (the default branch is no-boost). What is well-random? well-random is a c++11 fork from random, a collec...

Yet another time where I needed to replace spaces by tabs to get under the 30000 character post size limit
 
 
1 hour later…
Ven
 
I can't say I like the genre, but it's well produced
the solo parts are cool though
 
3:52 PM
is there something cool i can learn right now ?
blockchain is too long to learn in about 10-15 minutes.
 
some fun data structure you don't know about?
 
no idea... trying to make some $$
Morwenn do you live in Canada?
 
oh, I can't help then, I'm not really after money
I live in Brittany, France
 
If you want to make some $$ in under 10-15 minutes, try buying lottery tickets.
 
@Mysticial I tried that... didn't work haha
 
3:55 PM
if you want to make just a few $$ there are plenty of things where you can work, like translating things and the like, but you'll only make very few $$ in 10-15 minutes
 
@Morwenn yeah.... job hunting sucks... not even sure where I should apply....
 
@KaizerSozay work for a slaughterhouse: people don't want to work there, so you're generally paid well enough and there isn't much competition x)
 
@Morwenn yeah there are too many people where I am, so no demand for slaughterhouse employees... actually i heard that theres huge demand for programmers, and so there should be huge demand for me... i just don't know where to apply....
i like animals
 
@KaizerSozay if you're ready to move anywhere, finding a job is not that hard v0v
the difficult part is finding a job you like where you live
for xample you can work on IBM Mainframes in Singapore without too much experience (formation is paid) for $10k/month
 
@Morwenn I don't know man - I can't seem to land an interview. I don't mind working on mainframes in singapore for 10K a month... how do get that job ?
I'm pretty good with Objective-C, C++, Javascript, Java, Node.js, ....
 
4:01 PM
@KaizerSozay dunno, I'm just mentioning it because some friend was proposed such a job a few weeks ago
 
Ven
lol
 
@Morwenn Yeah I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.... like I'm supposedly super qualified, and everyone tells me i should be in demand..... but no interviews so far.. not sure where to apply even....
so boring too. Nothing to do all day!
 
Ven
lol
 
i feel like i was given programming powers for a reason.... but no idea what that reason is... nothing to do...
 
I ignore job offers from random companies around the world every few weeks
 
4:04 PM
do you have a linked in profile or something ?
 
I've got a linkedin profile, yes
 
maybe i should make one.
 
when I was looking for a job, the most efficient was to be on Monster, but tha tmostly work if you want to end in consulting in France
 
haha - Monster where I'm from was horrible! They wouldn't even let you delete your account!
 
I'll probably update mine when I don't have a job anymore, which might been as soon as in one or two months
 
4:07 PM
@Morwenn How come?
 
do you code in just one language, or multiple ?
I'm wondering if I should just become really good at just one thing....
 
@wilx I'm in consulting: my current mission is ending. My company is trying to find me a new one, but if they can't I'll just have to find another job by myself v0v
I've almost only ever done Python for work, and mostly C++ for hobbies
 
@Morwenn Oh. I would hate that, being every few months elsewhere.
 
when I'm contacted by companies from other countries, I guess that my SO and GitHub profiles help a bit
@wilx my current mission lasted almost two years, it was pretty good
 
@Morwenn Ah, that is pretty nice.
 
4:11 PM
yeah, consulting companies also win if they manage to find you long missions :p
 
@Morwenn I think I should apply to a consulting company. I've never done it before. How did you find one ?
 
if I accepted jobs anywhere, I'd probably be in either London, Dublin, Amsterdam, Paris, Tokyo or Palo Alto now
@KaizerSozay consulting companies like mine are quite specific to France IIRC because actually hiring and firing people is harder here, so using consulting company makes you more flexible
 
hmm.... haha... thats cool
 
honestly I won't be of much help: first time I looked for a job it took me 6 months, job lasted 5 months, and the second time it took me 8 months to find another job
from what I've gathered sending you resume to a shitload of companies generally tends to land you interviews, then you've got to make the best of them, but I don't think there's a magic method to job finding v0v
I may be the least qualified person here to give advice about job hunting x)
 
@KaizerSozay: What country are you in?
 
4:16 PM
anyway, I've got to go, bye and goold luck
 
We have had a lot of new employees here in Prague from Greece, former USSR republics, and Spain.
 
What are the possible issues with switching license from Unlicense to GNU GPL v3?
 
I mean, it might be necessary to look at jobs in different countries.
 
@Yashas can't switch back
 
@Morwenn You can if you own all of the code.
 
4:18 PM
If I switch, the previous versions of the project will remain as Unlicense, right?
 
@wilx India
@Morwenn Thanks!
 
Oh, it takes a bit for the hats to show up in chat.
 
@wilx Yeah, I've been applying in different countries, but its weird- see every few months I have to switch platforms, C++ --> Javascript--> Objective-C etc.... so I'm not sure which kind of job to apply to (I'm comfortable with all, but it takes a few days to switch context and get in the flow)..... but then recruiters don't seem too happy.... its weird ...
when i finally do end up working on a project, I just refer to the developer docs and things go smoothly... but convincing someone I can code in any language is a bit of a hassle....
 
Ell
@KaizerSozay because it's not true :P
 
@KaizerSozay I'm not surprised. When I see someone who switches between so many languages, it's unlikely he/she will be good at any of them.
 
4:24 PM
@Mysticial But what is the definition of good ?
 
Ell
2s.d. over the mean
 
@Ell I don't know man..
I pass all the programming tests
 
Ell
what tests?
 
IOW, when I see resumes where people list their "programming languages" as: PHP, Java, Javascript, C, C++, assembly, Python, C#, Ruby, iOS, Android, etc... it's usually a huge red flag.
 
like if i'm given a programming assignment, or asked to do something on hacker rank or on a phone interview, i get it right....
 
4:26 PM
> programming languages: iOS, Android
5
smells legit
 
@Mysticial But over a 20 year period, you would expect to learn more than one language right ? And Objective-C, C, C++ tend to go hand in hand....
and like if you've ever made a website you will know html, javascript etc...
 
@KaizerSozay It's not about "knowing" a languages, it's about knowing it well enough to actually use it well.
 
Ell
@milleniumbug I like the "smells"
 
@Mysticial Well what is your definition of knowing it well enough ? Over a 20 year period, you can become good at a lot of things...
 
When we interview people who claim to know 10+ languages, they really only know 1 or 2 and the rest are on lines of, "I did it 10 years ago in college" or, "it was 15 years ago 3 jobs ago".
 
Ven
4:28 PM
@Mysticial well tbh even 3 jobs ago it can be useful
 
@Mysticial I'm sure there are people who make claims like that, but the longer you code, the more you learn....
 
@Mysticial "I did it 10 years ago in college" <- isn't that worthless given that colleges just teach the syntax and not how to write production level code?
 
@Yashas Exactly. Same applies to the "15 years ago at a previous job". If you haven't used something for so long, you get rusty and you aren't up-to-date with modern updates.
 
besides the addition of ARC, there hasn't been any changes...
Objective-C doesn't seem to change very much...
If you're coding to C++11, then C++11 doesn't change either...
 
@KaizerSozay but from an employeer's perspective, a person who still codes in C++11 in 2030 is not a good candidate, right? (in my opinion).
 
4:32 PM
We've interviewed a ton of people who were "experts in C++" in the past. But in reality, they've been managers for 5+ years and don't know shit about modern C++. Nor are they able to effectively code anymore because they haven't done so in a long time.
IOW, they're managers, not coders.
 
@Yashas I think thats subjective - many companies have legacy codebases which have to be maintained and can't be switched to new platforms for a number of reasons...
some people still use fortran!
Like NASA!
@Mysticial I'm sure that applies to a lot of people, but I don't think its fair to generalise without actually testing a candidate..
a friend of mine from MIT is actually good at a number of things..
if you look at his resume, you (Mystical), would probably think he wasn't telling the truth.. but he's actually really good at everything he says he is..
 
@KaizerSozay We do test them. We interview a lot of people even if they have red flags on their resume. And the vast majority of them do turn out as we'd expect. But we don't want to miss any good people, so we give them a chance.
My own resume had plenty of red flags on it. Yet they gave me a chance and I got the job.
 
@Mysticial There are some job postings (especially on stack overflow), that look for people who are supposedly excellent at Objective-C, C++, Java, iOS and Android....
The job requirement is a red flag XD
 
@KaizerSozay listing "iOS" and "Android" as "programming languages" is not fine
 
@Yashas Who said iOS and Android are programming languages ?
 
4:37 PM
@KaizerSozay Exactly. They're probably looking for "super full-stack" developers. They are rare, and the ones that exist aren't cheap.
Or they don't really know what they want.
 
12 mins ago, by Mysticial
IOW, when I see resumes where people list their "programming languages" as: PHP, Java, Javascript, C, C++, assembly, Python, C#, Ruby, iOS, Android, etc... it's usually a huge red flag.
I think one of the red flags ^ was that "iOS" and "Android" were listed in "programming languages"
 
@Yashas I think what Mystical meant was if someone mentions several programming languages...
not platforms in a programming languages section...
but rather mentioning they are experts in multiple platforms...
@Mysticial Do you think its better to mention just one stack on your resume for one job application then ?
 
@Yashas I've done Android. And while it isn't strictly a programming language, it's got enough additions to Java to consider it a separate thing.
 
Ell
@Mysticial lol
 
@Mysticial Android is the platform. Java is a programming language.
 
Ell
4:40 PM
> it isn't strictly a programming language
well of course it's clearly not a programming language
not just "strictly"
 
iOS is a platform. Objective-C is a programming language...
 
@KaizerSozay I meant to include the whole package, i.e: Android + Java. Someone who only knows Java can't easily jump into Android development. (myself being an example - 2 jobs ago)
 
If you look at most programming languages, once you memorise the syntax, and understand how memory is managed. It isn't hard to switch between languages.....
 
@KaizerSozay I don't think this is even close to the truth.
 
@Yashas I'm not sure i understand what you mean...
@Mysticial Why not ? Once you read through the developer documentation and understand intents, activities, you have what it takes to make a simple app. Everything else (developer documentation etc), will depend on the project, which SDK's you use etc...
Like if you're never going to make a video game, its unlikely you will use SpriteKit on iOS... or MusicKit if you aren't using Apple Music...
but most likely you will need to know something about UIKit....
 
4:47 PM
@KaizerSozay You're missing out one big thing - understanding the platform itself. The OS, the environment, the permissions, rooting, etc...
 
@KaizerSozay That depends. For example, somebody who's straight out of college can easily have about equal experience in a fair number of different areas, and little enough in any that they don't really know what they want to do yet. Somebody with 20+ years of experience should have a better idea of where they're going and what they want to do. Just for example, I've written some Java in the past, but you won't find a single hint of that minor detail on my resume.
@Mysticial That applies to pretty much any platform though. Knowing how to manipulate Windows SACLs and DACLs (for example) doesn't imply any knowledge of how to accomplish similar things under Linux.
 
@JerryCoffin I see your point. But I guess that really depends on what you're working on right ? For example: the last project I worked on, I used Javascript / Node.js for the server, Javascript & HTML for the front end, and had to build an android app that connected to the api....
and then later build an iOS app...
both Native...
@Mysticial It doesn't take very long to understand permissions on iOS or Android...
and thats what the developer documentation is for... you refer to the section that you will use....
 
@KaizerSozay Sure. If that's what you did, and you'd like to do the same sorts of things in the future, then list exactly the languages and platforms you worked with. There are lots of "full stack developer" jobs out there, and it sounds like you're (one of the few who's) a good fit.
 
@JerryCoffin What are SACLs and DACLs?
 
@JerryCoffin But see then you have the problem where people think you aren't good at anything. Is it better not to list your entire experience then...
 
4:52 PM
@Mysticial SACLs are cute little sacks
 
@Mysticial ACL = Access Control List, S=system, D = discretionary. A DACL might say: "only members of admin group have access to this file." A SACL would say: "create a log entry every time this file is accessed."
 
Oh that shit. lol
 
@KaizerSozay Maybe. Fact is, you probably aren't really good (or at least not great) at everything.
@Mysticial Yeah--some of the worst APIs on the planet too.
 
Depending on the company, they may or may not be willing to train new hires that aren't good enough at whatever they need. But those are getting far and fewer in between.
 
@Mysticial At the same time, there seem to be ever-more listings for full stack developers and (the one that kills me) "devops engineers". I truly can't imagine trying to keep up to date on both development stuff and IT stuff (and I'm pretty sure I've never met anybody who really could do both even close to reasonably well).
 
4:58 PM
@JerryCoffin I don't fully agree with you Jerry - It's possible to master Objective-C in a relatively short time. Likewise with Java. But to define being good as knowing about all the Frameworks,API's or SDK's available in iOS, Android or anywhere else is pointless - you can always look up the SDK you intend to use....
C++ is different, since there are so many language features...
But Objective-C, C, Java are comparatively simple.
 
@JerryCoffin I also find it hilarious when targeted recruiters want to speak to me about a position that does: PHP, Java, Javascript, C, C++, assembly, Python, C#, Ruby, iOS, Android, etc...
 
If you read Apple's documentation for learning Objective-C its not very large... you can read the entire thing and understand it in a few hours...
but any C++ textbook is a lot harder since there are more features..
so I guess it depends on the language.
 
Maybe not that bad, but often for languages that I don't know and that nowhere on my resume, or LinkedIn or online presence shows that I know anything about.
 
Most job postings on apple's website ask for Objective-C , C , C++
 
5:28 PM
@KaizerSozay By my figuring, it took me around 8 years to learn to use C really well (and Objective C adds still more to that). I may be on the slow side, but I think there's also at least some difference in our definitions of what constitutes really knowing the language.
 
@KaizerSozay Are there? I've read longer specifications for protocol stacks
 
@Mysticial I've yet to see or hear from a "targeted recruiter" who seemed to have even a vague notion of where the target was, not to mention finding the bulls-eye.
 
@JerryCoffin Most of the ones I get are actually reasonable, "C++ job in Chicago or NYC" - usually in some financial institution. But there's always a few stupid ones.
What were the flags I missed?
 
5:44 PM
@KaizerSozay I've usually customized my resume to the job
 
@roscoe_casita I actually didn't have that luxury since my last two jobs where done via recruiter.
So I basically listed my expertise and they matched me with companies.
 
@Mysticial Makes sense, the recruiter does that job for you
exactly
 
The recruiter doesn't change your resume other than put a watermark on it.
Though a lot of companies don't like recruiters because it often becomes a bidding war between multiple companies over a single candidate.
 
You described what you wanted to do on your resume, recruiter matched you ~
companies may not like it, but it seems good for the candidate and recruiter
 
@roscoe_casita If the candidate flip flops too many times, it will look bad when the candidate finally joins. Especially in these financial places where loyalty matters.
 
5:49 PM
@Mysticial Aye, you only get to be bid up once in a long time
I stayed at my job for 9 years. I still get contracts from them now that I've left.
and we are on good terms / renewing contracts and training the replacements
 
@Mysticial Well, I suppose I probably see mostly the worst of them--my profiles on SO, LinkedIn, etc., all clearly state that I'm not looking for a job, so the only ones who contact me are starting off by ignoring that...
 
@JerryCoffin if you update your profile, it will showup at the top of lists again ~
 
@roscoe_casita Guess it's a good thing I haven't updated them since I got my current job and moved them all to saying that I'm no longer looking for a job. Even so, ~4 years later, I still get inquiries on a regular and ongoing basis.
 
@JerryCoffin you've got an epic profile then =D in high demand!
 
@JerryCoffin When you look at the other side: I have a few friends who have trouble finding a job period and they get no recruiter mails. They end up actively applying everywhere and getting rejected everywhere.
 
6:00 PM
@Mysticial I certainly experienced some of that when I was looking for a job. Took a few months, and a fair number of companies were basically like black holes--send the resume, get no response at all.
 
@JerryCoffin That happens with recruiters too. My last recruiter told me that he send my resume to about a dozen places, and only about half of them got back.
 
@Mysticial I wish I'd realized that at the time--I was pretty depressed at the idea that my resume looked so lousy they didn't even bother to say "no thanks".
The again, I do know about cases where government contracts are involved, so they're officially required to advertise the position and theoretically hire the best qualified person--but in reality, they've already picked somebody internal to get the position, which will create another hole lower down (that they also have to advertise) and eventually it'll get to the bottom rung, and they'll pick up another intern.
 
@JerryCoffin interesting
 
@JerryCoffin What happens is there is corporate nepotism in a sense, if you know someone inside the company your resume bypasses HR screen and gets on the desk of a decision maker
 
@Mysticial Oh, in most of these cases if you're overwhelmingly better than their internal guy they'll have to at least give you an interview, but unless they really find you likable, they can essentially always come up with something about how you wouldn't be a good fit for the team, even though any objective measure would say you're better qualified for the position. I actually once (unknowingly, at the time) got a job like that.
 
6:14 PM
this guarantees or gives you a much better chance at an interview
 
Took me months to figure out why one guy seemed to hate my guts literally from the day I started...
 
it doesn't get you the job but its the only way to guarantee a foot in the door
This is why networking, going to conventions and conferences is very valuable
you meet the people that can put your resume on the second pile
The first person to read your resume in an HR screen likely has no technical background and is only going off a list of requirements that someone put together in a rush
 
@crasic I concur. I go to 2 Anime conventions a year and I get plenty of job solicitations.
 
@Mysticial Well, if you are in the graphic novel industry sure, but I'm talking about things like embedworld, armcon, etc.
Its not about solicitations
its about knowing the person to email "Hey, person I briefly met at this industry con, giving you a heads up I'm applying to your company, can you give me any informationa bout what its like working for you, etc. etc."
Seriously, they should teach "networking skills" as a CS major class
 
The # of job/interview requests from recruiters/companies I've gotten in the past few years has been very strongly correlated with the # of Anime conventions I go to.
 
6:21 PM
Any of them directly from interactions at the con?
 
I don't know. :) I see a correlation. Obviously it implies causation.
 
6:34 PM
The only people we hire from recruiters are contract workers and technicians...
 
@crasic I should probably do that sometime. That last time I went to such a thing was BoostCon 1.0. Then again, that was only 10 years ago; why would I have to go to another? :-)
 
7:00 PM
@JerryCoffin Its best when the company sends you, I managed to get them to sponsor a standards committee membership for an obscure industry protocol
 
7:11 PM
@crasic I got my job from the college email listing. From what I've heard, the best positions are often acquired by word of mouth. Unlisted positions etc. Trust is a big deal.
It'll take 3-6 months to bring a new hire on and upto speed to start doing work, effectively, a task item at a time. 1-2 years before they are making significant / good improvements, 3-5 years for being able to design new components etc.. so its a long term investment and commitment. Both on the company and the peoples need to be 'loyal' to each other. Losing a team lead etc is a huge loss that takes years to recover from.
Imagine losing a product developer, or an entire product team.
 
nwp
Then you are happy that you made sure your bus factor is not 1.
I heard with certain technologies you can get the bus factor down to 0.
 
explain: bus factor
please =)
ahhh you mean the number of devs on the team? yeah... I have this story... lol.
 
nwp
The number of people that can get hit by a bus before the project fails.
Where "hit by a bus" is a placeholder for any sort of not working.
 
I remember riding in two busses to a company party... the patents and awards party... so the busses were loaded with the entire best of the best of the company... we talked about making sure the bus driver checked out.
@nwp What would you do if one of your teams that is responsible for direct customer support tells you that your understaffed? that the bus factor is 1.
How many years would you be willing to let that slide?
Turns out, if you let it slide long enough, when that bus hits (quit), then the team manager who was saying the same thing... quits to. So you don't just lose some, you lose a lot.
Then because of the whole fiasko... HR managers walk to.
 
nwp
7:29 PM
I didn't look at that closely. But in theory the chance that someone leaves is a few percent per year or so. Depending on the team size the probability that someone leaves will get quite high, so you must reduce your bus factor because there is no way to finish a project otherwise.
I don't think this chain reaction is realistic. But then again I haven't worked in enough companies for enough decades to know.
 
exactly. the only time its 'acceptable' is startup / new project dev until its big enough to bring more on.
@nwp This is the chain reaction that happened when I walked.
 
nwp
I would expect there were other issues besides you leaving.
 
undoubtable, chain reactions don't occur unless the right circumstances are present
 
nwp
Also increasing the bus factor has significant cost. And there is a real chance the project becomes obsolete or unprofitable if you take too long, so just risking someone leaving is sometimes the only viable plan.
 
@nwp Imagine the project is not only not-profitable, but you cannot charge anything for it. because it involves fixing your companies mistakes, and providing API kits to leverage what they bought. so there is 0. dollars. only losses. but they prevent bigger losses.
If there was a big parade (company), then at the end of the parade, after the horses and elephants come by.... you need some cleanup crew. Don't understaff that crew. especially if they are cleaning up after a lot of horses and elephants.
And the one thing you don't do, let core critical teams, sit at a bus factor of 1, maybe it goes down to 1, but ... years of being at a bus factor of 1... lets just say I know how I would/will run a company differently.
 
nwp
7:42 PM
I hope you do your cost-benefit analysis properly instead of blindly raising the bus factor.
 
@nwp More importantly is a logistics perspective that would identify such issues, How can the company NOT know that it is a core service/item they must provide? And as to how critical it was. Other companies doing similar work had massive teams doing what we did.
I still wonder to this day, how it could have happened. this chain reaction of events.
The only real conclusion I've come to is that communication from employee to management and back was so convoluted and miscommunicated, that the situation was allowed to persist. That is the real problem I would try to target in a company, clean concise communication ~
@nwp As you already identified, the real problem was somewhere else.
 
nwp
Another way of looking at it is this: Efficiency means doing the necessary work, but not more. They kept everyone working with the minimum amount of benefits, so when anything bad happens they just all leave. You could envy them for that. It would be much worse if half the team stays because they are overpaid.
@roscoe_casita Communication is overhead. The more you communicate the less you work on your product.
 
7:57 PM
 
we need a std::glob
 
Oh great, you need to get a Great Answer badge to get one of the secret hats. dafuq
 
8:26 PM
That's how they get you. Yesterday, I came this close to answering a question on SO.
 
Doesn't look like there's too many hats you can get passively.
Unless you're Jon Skeet.
 
@Mikhail better start hating hats to avoid any unfortunate helpfulness
I know I do
 
that's because your avatar sucks
DON'T FUCKING YELL
 
oh, corrected =) I'll use my indoor voice from now on.
 
@Mikhail In the spirit of US politics, Luc's avatar sucks because it's Nazi.
4
 
8:35 PM
@Mysticial I've always suspected Luc to be a Nazi.
 
Unfortunately, I'm not at home, so I can't screenshot such a long post.
@JNat Do you guys get alerted when someone makes Nazi references or something? :P
 
@Mysticial hey you see what you want to see
 
Happy St:Lucia day!
I hope all y'all had a nice saffron bun and beautiful choir music today.
 
@CaptainGiraffe this presumes a compatible religious affiliation
 
@Mgetz I certainly hope not. Me and my fellow lucia participants are quite particular in whom to exclude.
We only exclude Nazis, so Luc you can't watch this!
 
8:50 PM
@CaptainGiraffe not everybody has saints
 
@Mgetz It is Lucia, she has fire in her hair!
 
@CaptainGiraffe and?
 
That is the only qualification required
 
ok then....
 
@Mgetz Did you consider this to be particularly Christian?
 
8:53 PM
@CaptainGiraffe yes
 
@Mgetz What were the tell-tale signs?
 
@CaptainGiraffe the abbreviation for Saint
 
@Mgetz That was an i18n effort on my part. Nothing to do with the tradition.
I thought sehe and maybe even Jerry might enjoy a minute of the video.
 
@CaptainGiraffe The garlands in the hair actually scream 'pagan' tbh... either way it's not relevant to me
 
@Mgetz What religious affiliation is pagan? I'm uneducated in these matters.
 
9:00 PM
@CaptainGiraffe non-monotheistic
 
I'm down with that.
To me it is like saying my sexual orientation is non apache-helicopter.
2
 
@CaptainGiraffe both are technically valid IIRC
 
@Mgetz Yes, and both are congruent to my world view.
 
@CaptainGiraffe this is quite the tangent
perhaps I'm being too acute
 
Well, this is the lounge. Even this crap is above average.
 
9:44 PM
Take it to the next level, for example, "I sexually identify as a meme about an Apache-helicopter"
 
10:03 PM
@CaptainGiraffe So what model(s) of helicopter do you have sex with?
@Mgetz I'd guess that most of the traditions of monotheistic religions can be traced back to older polytheistic religions.
 
@JerryCoffin Hold on. WTF did I just walk into?
 
@CaptainGiraffe After the previous comment, I was expecting the video to feature a woman with nice buns wearing a (skin tight?) saffron robe or some such.
@Mysticial A discussion of sexual orientations. Helicopters apparently represent a vertical orientation.
 
oh ic
 
10:52 PM
We're writing to let you know that the Java 7 runtime is deprecated as of December 13, 2017 in favor of the generally available Java 8 runtime. you will be able to migrate your projects off the Java 7 runtime over the next 12 months prior to the shutdown date of January 16, 2019. For more information, see the Java 7 runtime deprecation page.
 
@JerryCoffin it's more about wanting to shoot napalm for no good reason actually
 
I have no idea which version of Java I am using
 
0
A: C++ polygon drawing on console Linux

seheFor sheer fun, I adapted that Canvas example from yesterday (Draw Line using c++ without graphics) with some Boost Geometry support. You can use it like: int main() { using manip::as_geo; Polygon poly; bg::read_wkt("POLYGON((0 0,0 7,4 2,2 0,0 0))", poly); std::cout << as_geo(p...

Someone please hire me. I'm getting out of control
@Mysticial lol
@CaptainGiraffe You called me?
 
@Telkitty if you don't have lambdas and stream interface, you're probably not using the right one :p
 
@CaptainGiraffe I see so much fire hazard, it's making me very uncomfortable
 
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