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12:06 AM
My favorite anecdote from that CERN visit was when we were walking under the particle beam, 20 or so feet under the pipe carrying the beam.
There was a red light, and a sign that accompanied the light reading. "Danger: Radiation, please walk fast".
 
@Mikhail that needs to be asked with a range: is it going to be from -∞ to ∞ or something else?
 
@Telkitty -∞ to ∞ like with all convolution...
 
it could be from 0 to 2π
 
that's called periodic convolution
 
 
3 hours later…
2:58 AM
spent a whole hour, finally figured out the current condition of my superannuation affairs
 
 
2 hours later…
5:11 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
7:08 AM
@LucDanton that new UI looks terrible
 
it’s a new feature originally conceived for books and similar lore content so you should expect it everywhere for the coming months
 
 
2 hours later…
9:08 AM
I bet that NASA's budget will be cut by the end of his presidency.
 
I doubt it
If I remember it correctly, he actually has increased the funding for NASA
 
More than was previously requested, less than previous year
About half of NASA is research grant
they are one of the major grant agencies for physical sciences, along with DoE (Energy) and NSF
 
@Telkitty IIRC he was against increasing the funding, but doesn't have the last word about that so it got increased
 
Grant budgets were reduced compared to what was requested
and grant budgets for Earth Observational Science was cut
Additionally the College Scholarship and Student Research grant program was eliminated
Mostly modest decreases, but still more than was requested by the outgoing administration
In any case, NASA budget has been decreasing steadily for years
 
9:29 AM
I thought most of those cuts were on climate change related disciplines and so called pseudo-science by him
 
@Telkitty Still NASA
Can't be both
> If I remember it correctly, he actually has increased the funding for NASA
> I thought most of those cuts were on climate change related disciplines and so called pseudo-science by him
 
don't think NASA should sponsor pseudo-science to start with
 
You either trust them or you don't
anything less is micromanagement into something you probably don't understand
 
true science has achievable goals
 
if you don't trust their grant giving on this, how can you trust them to go to the moon?
Sorry, its a cohesive scientific agency, those grant goals are also set by scientists
Same scientists in fact
 
9:39 AM
@crasic either you land on the moon or you don't
I thought it's straight forward
 
Allocation of funds is what NASA does
they don't build or design or land shit
except on paper
If you do not trust them to allocate research grants
how can you expect them to manage a multi-billion dollar reboot of the moonshot
Not since the shuttle stopped flying in any case
 
that's the whole point
trump wants to increase the funding to only those that have measurable goals
 
I see, by whose definition of measurable goals? Certainly not the scientists at NASA
 
that's why they don't get to allocate the funding
 
...
They don't get to set their own budget according to mission?
 
9:44 AM
they should list what they want to achieve and the amount of funding those goals need and reviewed at different stages on whether they have achieved according to the plan
 
Anyway, you asked, I answered. Straight answer is the budget was reduced, across the board. But more money than was requested, by obama. Earth Observation and Earth Science Grants (aka "climate pseudoscience") was cut, and so were academic scholarship and student research program. Other research programs were cut, but modestly. No new funding has been allocated for new missions, at least not in the current budget
If you want me to forward you the budget brief, if you don't believe me, thats fine.
@Telkitty Yes, this is quite literally the academic grant process. There is a timeline, check-ins and intermediate funding points. You think they are all rubes handing out money?
 
like I said, science should have measurable goals
 
(and that is a requirement of the grant)
 
either it works or it doesn't
 
Show me a project you believe does not follow that requirement
 
9:50 AM
how much has been plunged into climate change (science?) and what has it achieved?
 
Project Goal: Reanalyze and re-corellate existing datasets
Well military uses the data for day-to-day decisions
 
military has killed many people and destroyed many things
 
Uhuh
 
perfect example idiots should be removed from power
 
Peace
Denial is not conversation its trolling
 
9:53 AM
if someone does not agree with me, (s)he must be trolling
because you are always right?
Dec 7 at 1:43, by Telkitty
I am saying by creating a large enough circle, you can make people believe they are always moving forward without knowing they are going around in circles
I think my point is rather abstract
I wonder how many people don't use their own brain to think but blindly believe everything they are told?
 
@Telkitty No because I answered your question twice, and you did not respond to the good faith response, instead focusing on "psuedo science". You do not validate the other in conversation and talk over, this is asocial behavior, I attempted to answer your question impartially and you proceeded to wedge and troll
>
Grant budgets were reduced compared to what was requested
and grant budgets for Earth Observational Science was cut
Additionally the College Scholarship and Student Research grant program was eliminated
Mostly modest decreases, but still more than was requested by the outgoing administration
In any case, NASA budget has been decreasing steadily for years
and
>
Anyway, you asked, I answered. Straight answer is the budget was reduced, across the board. But more money than was requested, by obama. Earth Observation and Earth Science Grants (aka "climate pseudoscience") was cut, and so were academic scholarship and student research program. Other research programs were cut, but modestly. No new funding has been allocated for new missions, at least not in the current budget
You talk over, avoiding the basic conversation you are attempting to have
this is the definition of trolling
lack of good faith in conversation
@Telkitty Abstract is not what I would call it...
 
10:08 AM
science is based on evidence and should have observable or achievable goals
yes or no? @crasic
 
> бред сивой кобылы
Why would I disagree with that?
 
a set of data is not a goal in itself
 
Yes, of course it is :)
Case Study
Tyko Brahe
Without him, no copernicus
40 years of continuous data collection
with no other intent
but to collect data
 
right, be able to use patterns observed in order to achieve something else is a goal, sure
but the goal is something else achieved
not dataset itself
 
No, sometimes it is the dataset
 
10:13 AM
...
dataset is all around us
 
So is love
baby don't hurt me
You in sharashka?
> бред сивой кобылы
In any case, the end goal, of course, is to determine the future outcomes of world climate.
Even if you disagree with their conclusions, that is a real goal :)
And you can test if it is observable by making predictions and observing
> Wow! Science!
 
what's the most expensive useless observation ever made I wonder ...
 
Hubble Space Telescope
Sure is pretty
 
it's one of the cheapest and yet most powerful thing ever made - you can observe the universe with it
 
But we will never travel 14 billion light years, so whats the point
funny, ignore what is in front of face, dream about what is farther than your imagine can fathom
 
10:19 AM
universe is greater tha 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000‌​00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times bigger than earth
 
Yes, and you will never see even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000‌​000000000000001% of it
so enjoy the little anthill we have :)
 
most expensive house is the one with grand view that does not belong to you
house = earth, universe = that view
must explain in details or else you will accuse me of trolling again
 
So earth is an expensive house, in this analogy?
but you are trolling, don't be coy with me
 
That's not fair, when you don't understand scientists, you are okay with that. But if you don't understand what I am saying, you are accusing me of trolling ...
 
Who else but Me!
I guess I'm just an enigma, being able to hold contradictory thoughts
 
10:27 AM
@crasic ok, you can spend 100k on renovating your house (invest in earth environmental science) or you can invest to get a better view of the universe (invest in space exploration) personally I think the latter will get more bang out of your bucks
 
> You have died of disentery
Should have called a plumber ;)
 
but earth environmental science is most about observing not fixing things
 
How does one fix but not observe? Measure never and cut once?
 
that's like you are dying of toxic paint and yet you are hiring inspectors to inspect your house without doing anything
 
Well, should I call the lead removal guys, or the mold removal guys?
 
10:30 AM
might as well get out of your house ... but oops, you have invested none in that
 
Of course I have
You observe from outside, no?
 
oh, wait, you had $500 budget and you spent it ALLL on inspectors now
that's why my point
spend the budget on the crucial, real science
 
no, thats a strawman
 
that can change things for better
 
your point is that you believe climate science is psuedoscience
but you don't say it
you dance around
Because its too on the nose
too obvious
So create strawman
 
10:33 AM
thanks for getting my point
 
Where do you get $500
Lets play monopoly?
@Telkitty Even now you won't say it
 
I need exercise, not trolling, bbl :p
 
> бред сивой кобылы
 
@nwp I like how it didn't actually say what the value was :P
oh, in short, in C++17, unless otherwise state, operations are resolve right to left?
 
i need a job
 
10:41 AM
I'll soon need one too x)
 
can get rich quick schemes in mind ?
*any not can
 
So I have this Idea
Give everyone in the world their own RSS feed
and let people subscribe to each others feed
now the protocol is limited and we will want to have people respond by text, which is 140 cahracters
but I think there is something in this short messaging, but global audience, thing
 
@KaizerSozay Pull a heist and frame an imaginary top mobster for it. Profit
 
i was thinking something that requires less effort (maybe just a couple days work?)
or maybe just 10-15 minutes work
 
@KaizerSozay Its hard, you are competing with literal firehydrants of money on which developers at google sit on
 
10:44 AM
Become a cam girl
 
@crasic only have to think different.... or figure out how to win the lottery XD
 
Join the darkside
 
@Horttanainen once i get rich i want to be anonymous....
 
Everyone is hiring
literally
everyone
 
really?
whom?
 
10:46 AM
my firm is probably 3 developers understaffed
can't find candidates
 
@Horttanainen I could do that x)
 
@crasic why ? don't they post jobs online ?
@crasic or is it for really obscure esoteric skills ?
 
@KaizerSozay Head hunters, online we get wierdos
Uh, no, its like, can you write for embedded software
 
here people are hiring but you've got to find the right SSIIs -___-
 
@Morwenn SSIIs ?
 
10:47 AM
If you contact clients directly, chances are they just won't answer you at all
 
We need build/version engineer
test engineer
thats not obscure
another protocol engineer
 
@KaizerSozay basically service providers that sell developers to other companies
 
Hmmm... do you think its hard to switch programming languages ? I've coded in Objective-C, C++, Javascript etc, depending on the project, but I don't consider myself a master simply because i keep changing projects every few months...
 
I dunno, I work EE and I never did EE before this
 
i get the impression that a lot of recruiters prefer guys who focused on just one thing...
 
10:49 AM
I never study C++ and now I write firmware making your chips
you better be afraid
recuriters are idiots
 
i feel like I'm in some kind of twilight zone.
 
@KaizerSozay What makes you say that
 
well i had an interviewer ask me what my favourite platform was, and i said it makes no difference, since I'm comfortable switching between iOS, android etc. and he was like "Oh! So you're not good at anything! We don't want you", and i was like "No, I'm comfortable with everything", and he was like "Eat shit and die!"
 
I've only done Python and a bit of JavaScript so far
 
I think Python and javascript are super popular right now...
 
10:52 AM
Honestly, talent is knowing how to build systems in ways that don't shoot yourself in the foot, how to structure logic...logically and make teams work together, you can do this on any platform or language. Coding isn't skill or talent, its a trade. Focus on the former and you can work anywhere
 
@Morwenn if you become good at one of them shouldn't have a problem finding a job anywhere...
 
@KaizerSozay My main problem is that I could easily find jobs somewhere else, but finding jobs in my town in rather hard :x
 
@KaizerSozay Most companies have no idea how to evaluate talent
 
@crasic I know I can build anything, cause I'm organised etc, but interviews seem like a circus...
 
Or, often, what they need
@KaizerSozay Yes, you are putting on a play
 
10:54 AM
What is the verdict on perl-styled regex in the PHP community?
 
@Morwenn Yeah my town seems to suck too.
 
For complex tasks is it considered readable etc
 
@RonaldMunodawafa I get the impression there may not be too many php people here...
 
Oh sorry
I thought I was in the PHP room
9
Let me delete the messages
 
I wish there was some way to cash in on bitcoin right now....
 
Ven
10:55 AM
lol
this is a Perl-only room.
 
But from the C++ community, what is your verdict on perl-styled regex
I find it to be a hack tool
 
Ven
you mean PCRE?
 
I've never written a line of perl or php
 
i hope i never have to use PHP.
 
10:56 AM
They've spread in many languages and I find them ugly and unmaintainable
 
Ven
which feature of PCRE are you concerned about?
 
So far, every regex I've needed has been available in a stackoverflow answer
 
Have you tried altering regex used to try validate email?
 
fingers crossed
 
anyone want to build something cool ? I find it hard to find greedy programmers... all my friends are too content in their jobs....
 
Ven
10:57 AM
@RonaldMunodawafa you never use a regex to validate email.
Doing that is enough proof by itself that you're a bad developer.
 
@KaizerSozay I am wrapping a US Government Project written in fortran in python, it is used by maybe 30 people in the world, and is public domain
 
So we are in agreement regex has no place validating email
 
Ven
of course not. especially in PHP with filter_var.
 
I think its cool, but I wouldn't call myself greedy
Considering it costs me money to work on it :\
 
Ven
It's not like you couldn't do it, especially in PCRE, but it'd be very stupid.
Supporting features like nested comments in email addresses is especially hard with PHP's poor regex support.
 
10:59 AM
You are welcome to work on it too :)
 
@Ven nested comments in email addresses? o_o
 
Ven
@Morwenn yes?
 
I didn't know that was even a thing
 
Ven
foo+bar(hey(you))@hotmail.fr is a valid email address.
 
that's where you remember I seldom do web stuff
 
11:01 AM
@Ven What is the use case for this?
 
Ven
@crasic f***king up bots' parsing :P.
and checking if the ones who made the form are bad :).
the + feature is v useful to auto-organize emails tho.
 
Literally have never used it, but well enough.
nested or not nested variety
or the + alias
Emails and Printers (drivers)
the most obvious things
with the most convoluted implementations
 
11:25 AM
@crasic Why are you doing it ? Whats it about (the Govt. project) ?
 
12:11 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
1:40 PM
@Telkitty i.stack.imgur.com/48KOc.gif silly. Chat doesn't render gif transparency right, afaict
 
Ven
 
@Ven Use it all the time
 
Ven
some websites strip it tho :(
 
 
1 hour later…
Ven
2:48 PM
c'est ouf
 
quoi donc ?
 
Ven
3:20 PM
@Morwenn les recruteurs sur linkedin
 
@Ven haha, oui ; j'ai majoritairement vu des trucs foireux jusque-là x)
 
26
A: Lopsided artificial gravity

Logan R. KearsleyThis is actually a fairly well-researched and entirely practical design concept for cheap, robust spacecraft with centrifugal gravity. Since the connecting "shaft" is entirely in tension, it could even be little more than a cable, and need not be stiff (in fact, in some designs you actually want ...

this is an amazing answer
 
3:35 PM
@Ven #balancetonrecruteur
 
 
2 hours later…
5:29 PM
hello
is anyone here i have a question about c++
 
5:40 PM
when HP accidentally add a keylogger to audio drivers then a keylogger is found in synaptic drivers... The only question you might ask is are all of the drivers provided by hp come with a keylogger.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Someone stole your attack
 
@KaizerSozay Transforming maps from coordinates as they were known in 1890 to coordinates as they are today
Its not a government project, its a fork of a government created project, making it public domain
 
5:58 PM
How do you deal with a person who keeps changing question 100 times? (which keeps invalidating existing answers)
 
@Yashas Downvote and move on. Wish you hadn't wasted time writing an answer (if you did). Granted, when it actually happens to me, I don't feel nearly as philosophical as that sounds right now, but in the end it's about all you can do.
 
6:57 PM
I have caved in.
I have just ordered express delivery of PS4 Pro.
 
Does it come with HDK? What makes it pro
 
@crasic HDK?
It it the faster version with better GPU.
 
Hardware Development Kit, API's and Build Tools, nvm'
 
nwp
@FrankfortKentucky Go here.
 
sbi
7:37 PM
Is there an idiomatic way to pass a NOP-deleter to std::unique_ptr<>?
 
nwp
A regular pointer.
 
@sbi Not that I know of.
 
sbi
@nwp I am in the situation where I need to either store a reference to an object passed in or the pointer to a dynamically allocated object. After a while I realized that, with a deleter that does nothing, I could store the former in a smart pointer, too.
@StackedCrooked Mhmm.
 
nwp
@sbi But then the unique_ptr would be a lie. You don't get unique ownership with it. Or any ownership.
 
sbi
@nwp Show me a better way then.
 
nwp
7:43 PM
Eating time now. Maybe I'll think of something later.
 
sbi
Pfft.
 
With shared_ptr you can do using a short syntax because it can type-erase the deleter. With unique_ptr you can't hide the type of the deleter. So the deleter will probably need to be a user defined functor class that contains a boolean flag to indicate whether it will actually delete or not.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked What do you think about this: std::unique_ptr<T, void(T*)> ptr(&obj, [](T*) {})?
The other one gets something like this: std::unique_ptr<T, void(T*)> ptr(new T(), [](target_type* p) {delete p;}))
I haven't tried to compile this, though.
 
Ah. That might work.
 
The bigger gripe I have about std::unique_ptr is that the type itself can't be an incomplete type. (or if it can, I haven't figured out how to do it)
 
Ven
7:50 PM
std::unique_ptr<a&> ;-).
 
This forces me to pull in large headers into classes that happen to have one as some stupid internal field.
 
@Mysticial It can't?
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Yep. Do I really need the (*) in the pointer type declaration?
 
@Mysticial you haven’t figured out how to do it
 
@StackedCrooked In some cases, I can get it to work by force instantiating the destructor in the .cpp file. For elsewhere (depending on use-case) it still randomly tries to access the full type.
 
7:53 PM
@sbi Yeah, it's a function pointer type declaration.
 
sbi
> std::unique_ptr may be constructed for an incomplete type T, such as to facilitate the use as a handle in the pImpl idiom. If the default deleter is used, T must be complete at the point in code where the deleter is invoked [...]. (Conversely, std::shared_ptr can't be constructed from a raw pointer to incomplete type, but can be destroyed where T is incomplete). – cppreference.com
@StackedCrooked OK, decltype(single-boob) it is, then.
 
@sbi That's what I thought too. I'll need to find that case I had that was failing.
 
@sbi You can declare typedef for the function pointer of course. Might help with readability.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked I guess I'm spoiled from std::function<>, where this ugly syntactic wart is avoided altogether.
 
8:01 PM
I think I remember now. The class is a template. One of the constructors does forwarding all the way in to instantiate the std::unique_ptr. But that constructor is rarely ever used - and the places that use it have the complete type. But even in places where the constructor isn't used, IIRC, the parser tries to parse/compile that unused constructor just enough to where it needs the full definition of the type.
This isn't specific to unique_ptr.
 
sbi
Dec 8 at 6:39, by StackedCrooked
Clearly your code sucks.
 
I don't disagree.
Looks like the default constructor for std::unique_ptr wants the complete type.
Wasn't quite the way I remembered it. But I do remember the sizeof in the error messages.
 
don’t delete a pointer to an incomplete type
 
@LucDanton It doesn't. The destructor is declared and not defined. So it should linker error instead. (the actual scenario is that it's defined elsewhere that has access to the complete type)
 
@Mysticial It wants the complete type because in the main function you instantiate the template.
 
8:12 PM
@Mysticial so it has to be complete at the time of construction for reasons I don't recall right now
 
@StackedCrooked Apparently the default constructor of std::unique_ptr does more than just assign a nullptr.
 
Oh wait.
 
@Mysticial it’s a class template, by default you get everything in the TU
 
@Mysticial it's more the destructor needs to know what it's destructing... so it needs to know that there is a destructor and where to look at it. The type itself doesn't know that there is a special case for nullptr
 
(And you need to define the constructor and destructor in the same cpp file. )
 
8:16 PM
4 mins ago, by Mysticial
@LucDanton It doesn't. The destructor is declared and not defined. So it should linker error instead. (the actual scenario is that it's defined elsewhere that has access to the complete type)
 
Ah, it's probably because the constructor has a deleter argument. So instantiating the constructor also instantiates the code that calls the destructor.
 
fuck C++
11
 
@Mysticial if you’re not defining everything for a class template that sounds like an easy trip to ODR junction, unless you know your way around extern templates
presumably you could avoid all that headache by using your own deleter
 
@LucDanton I rely heavily on explicit template instantiations.
Actually, the template class is irrelevant here: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/b7ae865e4794bfb1
 
huh, I was going to link you to this GCC bug
@Mysticial I don’t think you’re going to like this
 
8:42 PM
for comparison, using your own deleter
 
ugh - a lot of boilerplate
How did that link?
 
@Mysticial in the first case you have to take control of every special member though—not just the destructor as we saw, we had to take over the default constructor just in case it required overly eagger instantiation of default_delete<incomplete>
you have to do that as a matter of precaution even though in an ideal world we shouldn’t
in a sense using your own deleter is refactoring all that nonsense in a single place, rather than letting that leak into every of our types that we’d want to hold a unique_ptr to an incomplete type
@Mysticial compare
does what I said made some sense?
 
WTF is this dark magic I'm looking at?
Is the destructor call being optimized out in the first case?
 
I don’t know and I don’t care :)
 
9:16 PM
Added a bonus implementation using Boost Regex for fair comparison — sehe 14 secs ago
 
9:56 PM
Well, I should have bought the game I wanted to play on physical media. The d/l will take over 8 hours.
On the up side, I can now watch Twitch channels on TV with the PS4 app.
 
10:23 PM
@wilx With that band-width, you'd better prepare for a lot of "buffering"
 
@sehe 20 Mbps down, I think. It is good enough for full HD video.
 
I'd think so. So. PS4 has crappy wifi then?
 
I don't think so... I hope not.
The game is over 40 GiB in size.
It seems that connecting with cable is slightly better.
 
10:50 PM
New CUDA version released 6 hours ago, maybe it actually supports MSVC?
4.3.1. NVIDIA Performance Primitives (NPP)

    Some testNPP samples that failed to compiled with CUDA 9 now compile.
 
11:15 PM
nope, compiler still broken on MSVC 2017
 
looks like nVidia cicc broken
 

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