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9:10 PM
@Borgleader Yes. In the real world, how many students are able to write a working, non-buggy, linked-list class in C++ without being told how to do it (of course, step-by-step with full explanations)?. Just throwing them to the lions and having them come up with something that only an experienced programmer would accomplish -- don't think that's fair. — PaulMcKenzie 5 mins ago
I cant tell if he's explaining his reasoning to me, or misread my (admittedly confusing) comment where I said I didn't disagree with him.
 
@Borg A lot of C++ teachers (most university lecturers) could not find there own arse in broad daylight if it was on fire, much less teach C++ properly. — Neil Butterworth 2 mins ago
2
eloquently put
 
xD
Wait... arent/werent you a teacher? :P
 
the worst part in quitting teaching was knowing the guy who replaced me sucked
I used to yeah
 
RIP, avg teacher quality went down :(
 
uni called and asked me to come back this year lol
 
9:16 PM
@slaphappy they would have to pay me a lot to go back there
 
you didn't like it?
was it because the students were morons? because my students were quite good
 
@slaphappy I never taught there :D
I was just studying
thatsthejoke.tar.gz
 
ah yeah ok
ngl same
though towards the end i was mostly not there so not sure it would change much
 
^ Fun stuff (@ScarletAmaranth @Xeo @Mysticial)
Really want to try to potato in bacon thing.
 
10:25 PM
-1
Q: Buck for Qt project

matpenIs it possible to use buck to build a Qt-based project? Specifically, I am looking for answers to the following: How to use the Qt resource system? How to use moc features? How to build GUI forms? How will buck perform cross-platform?

^ somebody close this
 
String literals and array literals as template parameters confirmed
> Add shared library loading support to standard library? 6 | 6 | 4 | 1 | 1
 
we also need floats as template paramters
 
10:45 PM
FWIW I don't agree that floats should be template parameters. Everyone knows that you aren't supposed to compare floats with ==, but that's what would be needed for having two types be equal.
 
that
is a very typical dumb cargo cult response
allow me to enlighten you briefly
 
Please do
 
the floats in question might be, perchance, constants, so comparing them for equality would be totally accurate.
and furthermore, they might not even be used in a context where type equivalence really matters.
so realistically, sure there are some cases that might not work as expected, but there are plenty of cases that would be totally fine
 
I just feel like it makes the type system harder to reason about. And I feel like the reasons to desire floats as template parameters are something that could be addressed without having them as template parameters
 
by using #defines?
 
10:50 PM
I don't particularly want them either, but I don't see any harm in allowing it.
 
Most importantly, all the bad uses, such as comparing floats directly are perfectly legal, at the moment.
 
the main problem that C++ has is that it assumes almost nothing wrt how floating point is supposed to behave
 
@Justin Well, you see, that is a dumb feeling with no apparent basis in reality, so I feel safe in discarding it
 
@Puppy Thanks for helping me realize this.
 
no worries
 
10:51 PM
there's nothing that would prevent introducing float template parameters in a language which assumes IEEE754, for example
 
What is fixity in a compiler front-end?
 
Sometimes, I want to go to the extreme: have every constexpr type be valid as template value parameters
 
@Justin We discussed that at the Oct 30 BSI meeting
 
@milleniumbug Or in C++ either.
 
I guess the concern is that, since C++ doesn't have floats following a standard, you could conceivably have code that can compile on one compiler / platform, but not on another, due to the floating point standard being different between them. As long as people don't misuse floats in that way, though...
 
10:55 PM
oh yeah
because C++ is a complete stranger to code that can compile on one compiler/platform and not another
and doesn't introduce this in totally random and fucked-up ways
and it's not like basically everybody uses IEEE754 anyway and it's pretty academic
 
Most compilers can also optimize floating point code, so they are certainly not agnostic
 
tbf, I've always liked the policy of "give control; let the user shoot themselves in the foot if they want." While floats as template parameters might allow people to write confusing code, you can already do that in C++. It's not like I have to use such disgusting code
 
Sometimes you need to find the best constant, templates make optimization quicker because you can generate a large number of functions. Other times, like with CUDA you need to pass a constant value to function, which at least NVCC 8 won't optimize unless its a #define.
 
@Mikhail That sounds more of a weakness in the compiler. I found that sometimes the Intel compiler will lose aliasing information through certain types of inlining. Not only does this break restrict, but it makes the compiler think that constants may alias other data.
 
11:11 PM
how about fucking let me use fucking floats in my fucking templates and then nobody gets fucking hurt
 
In particular, ICC fails to recognize global constants as constants and assumes they alias with everything. (Not sure if this is still the case since it's been a couple years since I ran into it.)
@Mikhail Speaking of language features: I want the ability to forward declare a typedef or using.
 
Maybe by specifying its size ahead of time?... Although this sounds like a terrible idea.
 
nwp
Also every standard header should come with a .decl version that just forward declares everything that it normally declares.
Because you are not allowed to do it manually.
 
In principle that could be accomplished by a build tool?
 
@nwp They have that for iostream IIRC. But I agree, there's no need to pull in 100k LOC of headers just because my class has a function that returns an std::string that will be used in maybe 5% of the users of that class.
But I'd still want the ability to forward declare typedefs since it would save me quite a bit of headache - not related to compilation time.
Right now, the usual work-around is to inherit from the thing I'm trying to forward-declare and then forward-declare the new class instead. But this only works in some cases.
Another feature that I'd love would be the ability to use a namespace as a template parameter.
I'd actually prefer that one since it eliminates my need for forward-declaring typedefs and simplifies a ton of other things.
 
11:40 PM
Yeah that's a good one and I have a similiar need.
I'd like to see some standardization of the #pragma lib loading system specifically to get control over .dll/.so loading. Normally dlls are somewhat attached when the program runs, but its often desirable to attach them only on invocation. That way if you have a hardware device that isn't connected you can simply not call it, as opposed to have its dll load and wreck your system.
 
On the hardware side, I have a long wish-list already. But I have a new one I want to add: a predicated prefetch instruction.
 
we need an std::process
 
Use case is for loops where each iteration prefetches the next iteration. I'd like to suppress the prefetches for the final iteration.
Right now the work-around is to peel off that final iteration.
 
interesting to see windows web server surpassed linux for a brief moment in 2014, lol
what does that mean ... active sites are mostly using apache while other dead/semi dead/zombie sites are mostly using windows?
 
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