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12:37 AM
creating job opportunities, keep your employees fed
 
1:11 AM
@Borgleader I have some insight as to why these kind of assignments exists.
 
Oh right you're a teacher
 
Indeed, this particular strain of Comp-* is fortunately rarer these days.
Back in 2005, I met them as "Systems designer"
The idea was that they were to impart godly knowledge in how to design a complex system, so that the code monkeys could type it out.
Of course, none of them had written a program in their life. Most of them would struggle with explaining any hello world construct.
The last guy at my department doing this crap left in 2013. He is currently teaching introductory programming courses in a high-school and is often contacting/begging me how to do trivial stuff.
If it's not clear by now, I'd just like to state that it is my opinion that these fuckers did nothing to advance the proficiency of the students in computer systems in any regard. They did have an excellent sense of entitlement though! They were operating at 4D chess, while the lowly comp-sci/comp-eng people were all linear.
 
1:26 AM
@nwp lol, there were some sort of tabs built in?
 
Fortunately I'm no longer bitter about it.
 
Also, my tooth aches and the gums have bad colour.
If I die, shed a tear for me.
 
1:39 AM
most likely, you wouldn't die ... just live badly with a swollen face & some excruciating pain
 
 
2 hours later…
3:49 AM
@OneRaynyDay what?
 
4:22 AM
> And it gave us an Internet economy that became the envy of the world.
If you ignore Europe or Asia, sure.
 
4:52 AM
I am looking at Hierarchy of Needs, internet is not listed there ...
 
5:03 AM
 
5:38 AM
@Mysticial when you interviewed with the firm, did you also have 4 interviews?
When I went to interview the last interviewer "could not make it"; not sure if that's a euphemism for "don't waste his time" or if he was actually out. In any case I only had 3 interviews out of 4, and I'm assuming that's a bad sign
 
6:05 AM
@OneRaynyDay I don't remember actually. But it was definitely on the order of 4 or 5.
@OneRaynyDay That's certainly possible.
 
6:27 AM
@Mysticial yup. I thought I did okay; but I did screw up on the syntax of template function definitions :/ slightly
 
688
Q: Why does man print "gimme gimme gimme" at 00:30?

Jaroslav KuceraWe've noticed that some of our automatic tests fail when they run at 00:30 but work fine the rest of the day. They fail with the message "gimme gimme gimme" in stderr, which wasn't expected. Why are we getting this output?

 
6:52 AM
@Morwenn Have you seen this? thesai.org/Downloads/Volume8No10/…
5
 
@Telkitty ...until I die?
 
7:25 AM
@wilx if you could feel the pain, then no
 
8:08 AM
Well. The tooth is out. It was painful.
 
@Mysticial Nope, I haven't linked into parrallel or SIMD algorithms yet
I was waiting for execution policies to be available before that
Thanks for the link anyway, I'll have a look :)
 
8:36 AM
@Mysticial looks sexy af
 
nwp
9:14 AM
Today I learned all arithmetic overflow is undefined behavior and unsigned integers cannot overflow. The standard really has a way with words.
Next time you enter a pedantry contest and someone talks about unsigned integer overflow you can say there is no such thing.
 
@nwp yeah, it's fun
 
Ven
I remember upvoting that answer
 
 
3 hours later…
sounds a bit like some Myrkur stuff
except more impressive voice when it changes
 
The change was so sudden. Ill check out this Myrkur
 
the voice that almost sounds like a violin at some times almost remininded me a bit of Igorrr's Grosse Barbe x)
@Horttanainen that's mostly a mix between Northern folk and black metal
 
@Morwenn I thought you would like it because you like igorrr
 
you'll only get singing like in the beginning, not like in the impressive parts :p
@Horttanainen I find it impressive, but I'm not a huge fan of a capella :/
 
12:18 PM
> have not seen <#, <#=, ># and >#= be used thus far so I want to suggest these as the operators in the next set of standards.
 
nwp
operator 🖕
 
^
 
@wilx That's hilarious
 
1:03 PM
I've almost solved all of my issues on cpp-sort
I'll have to start working on the library itself again .____.
 
user784668
1:22 PM
@Mysticial noice
 
let's put an entire OS, unaudited heck, even if it's audited, on a CPU die, surely nothing wrong can happen
 
-5
Q: plz help Write a CColor class that can be used as following

Khaled SarhanThe RGB color is 24 bit represents the three color components (red, green, blue). The colors arranged respectively from most to least byte. Each color represented by 8 bits. Write a CColor class that can be used as following. Please take care that the input to CColor b(0x00667755) constructor is...

#noshame /cc @Mysticial @milleniumbug
 
> Write a CColor class that can be used as following.
as following what
 
nwp
1:39 PM
there should be a captcha : "C and C++ are the same langugage: yes / no ?" — tobi303 48 secs ago
 
auto res = std::color_cast<std::color::ymck>(rgb_color);
 
789
Q: Open letter to students with homework problems

user40980It is September once again (today is the 8755th day of September), and once again students are asking their homework problems on Stack Overflow and SoftwareEngineering.SE. We start seeing questions like: A car dealer has 10 salespersons. Each salesperson keeps track of the number of cars sol...

 
that's a good one +1
 
2:00 PM
@Morwenn flagged for racism
 
std::color_cast<std::color::ymca>
 
sometimes I feel like the standard library could provide vocabulary types for colours even though it doesn't do anything with them :p
sometimes I just feel depressed instead /o/
and sometimes I feel happy too :D
 
nwp
I watched some Gods of America. I still don't understand anything, but it had a nice speech about blacks (NSFW?).
 
I watched synopsis of it, the whole season in 60 mins
also how can that piece of code be racism when no thread involved thus no racing conditions :p
 
2:52 PM
856
Q: Why does man print "gimme gimme gimme" at 00:30?

Jaroslav KuceraWe've noticed that some of our automatic tests fail when they run at 00:30 but work fine the rest of the day. They fail with the message "gimme gimme gimme" in stderr, which wasn't expected. Why are we getting this output?

Nice
 
Hello, Cruel World!
 
@milleniumbug Boost GIL has this, basically (give or take a few name changes)
 
nwp
@sehe You seem to be reading backwards again.
 
@nwp How so? I don't notice Boost nor GIL references
 
nwp
That was more related to "gimme gimme gimme"
 
2:56 PM
Ah. That was obviously not in response to the transcript (otherwise it would be linked as a reply)
 
3:18 PM
@JerryCoffin Notice anything unusual in this photo?
 
nwp
Looks like a camouflaged Cheshire Cat.
 
@nwp Hint: It's not something that can be seen in North America or Europe.
 
nwp
I'm sticking with the cat. It's the only logical explanation.
 
And not in Australia either.
 
Ven
@nwp Definitely that blind guy
 
3:40 PM
@Mysticial it’s probably about the moon, but i can’t get my head around what exactly is happening/different
 
that the half-portion is straight down I guess
normally it's towards one side depending on waxing/waning
 
@Mysticial There aren't BlurryExpress anywhere in North America or Europe :o
 
@ratchetfreak That's correct.
I took that picture a few hours ago. And I'm in Singapore atm.
 
I'd say « more like Singapoor » but it doesn't work
 
nwp
I could have sworn wonderland.
 
3:53 PM
Basically it means that you are near or on the moon's orbital plane
 
Ven
the whole lounge is in Singapore
 
that means it’s exactly in the plane with earth’s/moon’s orbit, but that should also be possible on other places at specific times
@ratchetfreak yeah
 
@Darklighter Since the inclination of the moon's orbit is only 5 degrees, you'd have to be fairly close to the equator to see it point straight down.
 
@Mysticial but earth’s axial tilt is much bigger
 
4:02 PM
so it's really ~27°
 
@Darklighter relative to the axis tilt
 
@Mysticial moon’s orbit is around earth’s rotation? well i guess it makes some sense
then sure^^
 
I think. I'd need to rethink the geometry to make sure. The location of the sun obviously matters to some extent.
 
apparently that’s not the case
moon doesn’t orbit atop the equator but in (nearly) the same plane earth does around the sun
 
You need the 2D plane that the sun, moon, earth lies on to be perpendicular to the horizon on your location on earth.
I think it is possible for that alignment to happen as high as 27° away from the equator assuming zero inclination in the moon's orbit. If the moon is on the ecliptic during solstice at midnight, the intersection of that 2D plane will be at either the tropic of Cancer or Capricorn.
The 5° inclination will let you see it even further away, though my head geometry isn't letting me calculate how much. I'm not sure it's entirely linear. And it's possible the eccentricities come into play since that might matter if the 2D plane is off the ecliptic.
 
4:20 PM
the earth's tilt is 23.5° (IIRC) I had already added the 5° of the inclination
 
oh
 
 
2 hours later…
6:37 PM
Anyone in the mood for some live GENIUSING /cc @BartekBanachewicz
Who else to ping for awesome musicians? @CaptainGiraffe
 
hello all
question for SIMD experts for x86 again
GCC uses "movaps" for loads on "__m128*". But it can't know that the pointer is aligned
the intel compiler correctly uses movups. Why does GCC seemingly not care about the alignment?
 
why shouldn't it be aligned?
if you declare a variable like __m128 x;, is x guaranteed to be aligned enough for movaps?
 
@sehe leaving soon but sure
 
@milleniumbug I load from a function parameter of type "const float*" and cast it to "__m128*"
I don't see why gcc can derive that the resulting pointer is aligned.
 
nwp
6:53 PM
Because strict aliasing which you violate with your cast, hence UB?
 
@nwp how else would i read the values if not by casting?
 
nwp
By using std::memcpy.
 
but I need a pointer of type __m128 that points to those floats
 
nwp
Which incidentally ensures that the __m128 is properly aligned.
 
it'S the platforms SIMD type, which i supposed would be compatible with float on that platform
 
6:55 PM
dunno, pass -fno-strict-aliasing?
 
@nwp i don't understand. can you please make an example of how to SIMD-process a buffer of floats by a called function?
without disabling strict-aliasing? that must be possible somehow
 
nwp
I have never used any SIMD. But generally either the function takes floats because you want to process floats or it processes something else in which case you need an actual conversion, a cast will not do.
 
I think you misundertand. actually i want to process floats
but by SIMD
UB is irrelevant. I'm fine with UB in my case, if the compiler can handle it
 
nwp
Well, if UB is what you want you have the answer how gcc managed to derive that the resulting pointer is aligned.
 
if it can't, obviously my code is wrong and needs fixing
sorry, that's not acceptable
 
nwp
7:00 PM
It seems like a common problem though. Isn't there some library that takes a float * and makes sure the SIMD instruction are doing the right thing?
 
do you say it's impossible to process a float buffer by SIMD?
or, what is the solution? i'm not sure
at the moment i would guess GCC promoted into the function that the address of my object that the pointer points to, is const
 
@Mysticial Sorry, I got here after the big reveal...
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb but that’s just not true for instructions which require alignment
 
nwp
As far as I can see the cast is UB. There is no way to do it by normal standard rules besides using std::memcpy which you probably don't want to use because performance (Although, check that. Maybe gcc realizes that the memcpy is not necessary and can be optimized out if not assuming that the pointer is aligned which would fix the problem). So you need some help, some implementation defined guarantee for this specific case of UB or inline assembly which doesn't have that UB.
 
@Darklighter well, that's my point. GCC emits an instruction that requires an alignment
why would it not emit an instruction which won't require the alignment? reading a __m128 can be done unaligned, at least on assembly level
@nwp i think that the C++ standard is irrelevant, because it doesn't know about SIMD at all
 
nwp
7:06 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb Because aligned access is faster and unaligned access is UB, hence using the aligned instruction is always the correct choice.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb for a function which takes an __m128 * which should be an aligned pointer?
 
I think I will wait for someone who understand what i'm asking
 
Since I don't know how to write SSE code, I can only rely on SO here: stackoverflow.com/questions/33889381/…
> Don't rely on implicit SSE loads and stores.
 
thanks, that's what I wanted. that answer seems to be exactly for me
 
can't assess how accurate is this advice
 
7:09 PM
perhaps I should insert a "assume_unaligned" (there's an attribute for that). maybe that solves it
i'm shocked that gcc can't properly handle that code
 
nwp
Using an actual conversion, I wasn't that wrong after all.
 
thanks folks. man, this is dangerous.
I was happy to see #GCC (seemingly) generated faster #assembly for my hand-written intrinsics-SSE code than #ICC. When I got curious and looked at the assembly, I found GCC assumes that loads from "__m128*" are always aligned! Dang...
tweeted
 
nwp
Not enough characters to hint at the solution?
 
Making use of these extra characters I see
 
7:29 PM
I wonder whether the compiler can change a mm_loadu_ps to mm_load_ps when generating code and when it knows the address is aligned?
or does it not do that sort of thing
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb the type is aligned, right.
 
.. and this all means i have to do my evaluations all again tomorrow. hopefully my master thesis will end some day :p
 
@nwp +1
@JohannesSchaub-litb when did it start
 
well, a few months back. but it's still a waste of time :o
 
7:47 PM
:o
 
8:07 PM
one thing still bothers me
GCC ignores "noipa" attribute.. warns that it will ignore it. but gives no reason as to why
so I can't prevent it from constant-propagating things from my speed-test into the testee body
 
 
2 hours later…
10:17 PM
also I find it weird that GCC uses relative addressing in a x86 binary on linux. intel uses absolute addressing here, and doesn't need a PC-thunk
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Compiler explorer is your friend :)
 
oh wait, hah. my G++ actually created a shared library that is executable!
 
I wonder what main() does
 
43
Q: Why and how are some shared libraries runnable, as though they are executables?

Ho1On 32-bit Linux systems, invoking this $ /lib/libc.so.6 and on 64-bit systems this $ /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 in a shell, provides an output like this: GNU C Library stable release version 2.10.1, by Roland McGrath et al. Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This is fre...

 
10:36 PM
@StackedCrooked it appears gcc does it itself. it creates a shared object, without me requesting -fpic, -fpie or -pie or any other position-independent feature
it's just that i compile with -m32 (64bit build host)
it'S the same without -m32
ahh, it's because I have a 64bit host.. apparently they think they can afford PIE-ness on 64bit executables, and they were not thinking about the cost for -m32 - i guess
 
> Part IV: Bill Clinton Raises A Good Point
lol
 
10:52 PM
Trap when using a AMD64 build-host to generate x86 binaries: My Archlinux has GCC configured by "--enable-default-pie" which gets then even used for "-m32" and wastes a precious register to hold the PC for the position-independent executable!
tweeted aswell
 
nwp
What is the reason you are tweeting this?
Is it to share knowledge? Gain reputation? Get feedback?
 
everything of that!
 
Spread information, likely. Spark interest?
When I find something curious, I'll tell it to people I know. In the hopes I'll get insights back
And otherwise, to encourage people to stay curious and question things
 
perhaps some gcc maintainer reads it and decides they change their ./configure script to add support for specifying that enable-default-pie only for the native target
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb GCC is the one that's correct here. __m128 types are supposed to be aligned. When the user casts from float to __m128, it's the programmer's responsibility to make sure it's aligned.
Aliasing between float and __m128 is allowed because the SIMD types are marked as "may alias". But I've still seen GCC break if you violate strict-aliasing within the same function scope.
 
11:02 PM
ah thanks, that's great to know
but I suppose the type's natural alignment makes stack-declared variables and class members be aligned automatically?
 
yes
 
Not sure about class members.
Hm, it's probably ok if you only need 16-byte alignment.
But for AVX I think you'd need to use an allocator that ensures 32-byte alignment.
 
@StackedCrooked Alignment propagates up. So the stuct will be aligned as well. But you still need to do heap allocations properly.
 
11:43 PM
another day, another email to tell me that the lib I am using in my apps might be obsolete in 2 months time
 
11:56 PM
checks wether he's in js room or what
 

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