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00:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

@EtiennedeMartel Good. More meat for me :)
00:36
@Borgleader There's about 5000 bars and restaurants in Montreal, though.
I'm just happy to see more diversity.
Panic, I'm back
@EtiennedeMartel Huh, didnt know there were that many
Hey, speaking of restaurants, ever been to Thazard?
@Borgleader Now all I can think of is a flaming dragon
01:09
@Borgleader Nope.
99% of the time when I eat any kind of Asian food it's in Chinatown.
Don't you love it when the power goes out for a second :P
hey, I'm looking to learn more about how a compiler might deal with const variables defined in a lambda, and whether or not it pulls it makes it static somehow, or whether it redefines them each time the lambda is called.
is there any good place to learn about stuff like that?
Well, I don't know about a good place to learn, but testing can help figure out a behavior if no other option is available :P
@milleniumbug I once made a function that is the direct epitome of "here's a feature, but don't ever use it, ever, it's broken." I basically made it to show that Undefined Behavior would be theoretically possible in C#, and it crashes 9 times out of 10 :P
thanks
Don't listen to me most of the time though lol.
I'm a skrub with bad ideas
01:27
haha
i mean what I've got works and stuff, I don't quite know how to figure out how a compiler might instantiate a new one each time or not. I guess look at the address in the debugger eh
Seems good to me. I'm about to learn more online things. Fun times.
I usually work in a local environment, but I thought, "What if I made a server/client pair for that environment?" and I'm flailing around trying to figure out how to send data :P
Goes back to failing at things for a bit
I figured out how I got so many zener diodes for $1. They all exceed the 5% variance permitted by their datasheet, so that basically means I have to test every single one before use
e.g one I just tested was 75% away from spec.
wowzers
01:46
Can't be good
They all work. It appears that most of them were just rejected for their variance and a few do meet spec so they were probably surplus
Well, that's better than broken :P
And I got a few 5.2V+-5% ones that mostly fall in the 4.7V range; perfectly usable even though that's ~10% off.
Among the pack, I got about 15 diodes that are rated for military use; they can prevent surges up to 400V
> military use
What are you doing? Building a tank? Apparently "take" is a noun to me :P
Yep, maybe one like this
> 6V+-5% diode, regulates voltage at 3.46V
Seems legit
02:03
10/10 would diode again
Hey @Aaron3468, I had an idea, since FOS-X was designed to have a shared environment (potentially more than one program), I thought that a server (with clients ofc) that took a string program thing and ran it asynchronously (With certain instructions disabled for obvious reasons) would be nifty
@Darkrifts They do that with SSH linux shells. I could see the possibility of running a special front-end language for a media server or something
Really, the power of writing your own language interpreter is that you have the freedom to make commands as high or low level as you need
Now all I have to do is set up a server listener thing, and a client.
Problem with it though, is I have no idea as to how I could show output consistently across all clients
@Darkrifts Create a protocol that transmits the output state. Especially if it's a text only interface, you should be able to poll every 0.5-2 seconds without causing problems
Ok. I could go like "Sleep, send data, show data, repeat," but I need to find a way to save all connections so that I can send the string data every once in a while
I'll work on porting the interpretation to the Server thing first though
I mean that the client should ask for the state when it needs the data, and the server has the right to send a short I'm busy message if the client polls too often
02:15
Ok
Honestly, after a certain point, you're no longer developing individual languages but a 'stack' or 'ecosystem'. Basically a set of tools and standard ways of communicating between devices, languages, and objects. Languages usually serve as glue tbh; not all that useful themselves
user406009
@Aaron3468 There are some cool ideas about making a complete ecosystem based on one language.
user406009
The Lisp machines and whatnot.
@Lalaland I could definitely see it happening with Rust, Lisp or Ruby. Very powerful languages with good support for I/O modules
user406009
@Darkrifts I would just duplicate your current user interface remotely.
user406009
02:23
How do you currently interact with FOS-X?
It is currently run within a special environment (Which I have currently ported to a console app)
I was going to have some thing where you could send the program to the server, it and its environment would be shared between programs on that server, and run it asynchronously.
The whole thing runs on each program being an unsigned byte array, doing an operation based on what byte is next.
02:40
Well, I now have it where the client can ping the server and get a response w/o having to send a program (which also helps server resources, because it won't have a ton of null programs if a bunch ping at once. They'd close immediately, but still)
02:58
C#'s List<T> makes it easy for me to nuke all dead threads :P
03:18
> [Governmental agency] Geoscience Australia moves to update maps as the continent is drifting north at 7cm a year
@sehe @Morwenn made a new loop thingy that I like, with some metallica + improv on top of it soundcloud.com/orlp/classical-metal-loop-improv/s-6PVhG
Ok, I now have a client that can connect (which auto-disconnects) and disconnect, and ping for output
03:55
@Mysticial Ah fuck I've been watching road rage videos for two hours now.
Oh.
This reminds me.
If I want to have a server with 10,000 concurrent connections
What kind of network libraries / tech should I be looking at? /cc @StackedCrooked
Well, I've now run into the problem of it doesn't like the connection closed & reopened really fast, but who'd do that :P
So, I think I have the server opening thing running now. When I try and open a server twice on the same port, it breaks and stops me from ever opening it on that port again, and keeps running when it doesn't.
@LucDanton Sanic speed
"10,000 concurrent connections"
What are you even trying to do?
Something wonderful.
I'm trying to make a FOS-X server/client thing
It's like core warfare, except some random person can jump in and break everything at any given point :P
X-Server?
Ah.
04:07
Nah, FOS-X server :P
A shared stack, shared queue, and a shared single value register. The only private data you have is the tape, which can only be accessed based upon data in those structures :P
Means you can have a legit program that does stuff that can be corrupted by another arbitrary byte pusher or something though.
Of course I'm enforcing a program runtime limit of 65536 moves, because an infinite program would just allow people to crash servers
What kind of application would need 10k connections at once anyway?
What is this, Skynet?
04:33
@Darkrifts Any content provider these days?
@ThePhD You need something that combines polling with things like epoll with thread pools handling those connections.
You can tell by the below image I'm not good at GUI creation :P
I see you have many buttons to press
I'm gonna change the text on them to hex values :P
Like 00
What's painful is I have to do them each individually
You could dynamically generate the GUI and call for each hex value { add hexButton(value) }.
And then the hex button just calls outputHex(self.value), or something...
Meh
My idea is each one is a button for a given instruction :P
04:47
Okay.
Ykw, this is way too inefficient
Even for my designs :P
Yeah, it's inefficient. Nothing stops you from generating the buttons in a loop, each one set to give a different command.
Not just that, but the buttons in general :P
05:02
OMFG! Preacher ep 2 is awesome! Fighting with a chainsaw! :D
Ell
Ell
@ThePhD boost::asio
Or epoll on linux
Or kqueue on freebsd
And completion ports on Windows.
Ell
Ell
WaitForMultipleObjectsEx I think, right?
@Ell No.
Ell
Ell
I don't do windows stuff vOv
05:10
@Ell That is basically select() limited to 63 handles.
Ell
Ell
Ah I didn't realise it was limited to 63
speaking of asio
I think some of us will be interested but I don’t remember who exactly @R.MartinhoFernandes @sehe @KretabChabawenizc @Rapptz
05:27
hi I'm using asio
@LucDanton Ha, too late now, but nice.
@Rapptz it looks like (very casual browsing though) it might come with an executor abstraction so you can build all your futures on that, maybe
I don't like asio
but I hate it less than I did 6 months ago
so I have that going for me
well, your only remaining beef would be lack of language-level async/await right? and that’s not something that a library can (easily) bring so blame the language :)
no
my annoyance atm is with the stdlib
re: std::future
05:31
they’re unsalvageable (imo) without an executor thing
so from the other direction, Asio may come with executors so it can have useful futures
take with a huge grain of salt I followed all that stuff months ago and in the end I ended up writing 0 async/future code since then so it’s a bit hazy in my memory
@Mysticial WTF kind of comparison is that. No wonder you think VS is so great and then go on to list... horses for courses features.
I'm literally using asio right this second actually
trying to make an asio interface for libcurl's curl_multi thing
not really fun
@R.MartinhoFernandes nah you just don’t gedit
It's hard for me to program on Windows while holding a cup of coffee in each hand.
Gedit is much better.
Ell
Ell
06:32
Getting out of bed early feels so good
Usually I wake up at 06:00 then end up falling asleep again
That feels terrible
@Ell you ok man? you seem confused or something
Ell
Ell
Just having a monologue :P
yeah, that being happy to get out of bed early freaked me out
4
07:26
Oh, fresh.clothing is available!
07:37
@KretabChabawenizc oh I wanted to mention that '4 viper necros + 1 druid' looks to be the new 'only warriors and guardians' except for high level fractals
well, and except it’s probably effective, too
07:55
@FélixGagnon-Grenier have a star for making me laugh on monday morning
08:30
> internal compiler error: unexpected expression '#'predict_expr' not supported by dump_expr#<expression error>' of kind predict_expr
5
I guess that’s one way to start the week
> modification of '*((&#'result_decl' not supported
*((&# you too, GCC
@LucDanton :D
can’t repro as usual
08:51
it's ok, the human race is not in immediate danger
@LucDanton no, you can't by yourself
unless you know how to clone humans
fucking hell
i can't fucking get threading support in my fucking cross compiler
there is no way
i fucking hate my life
every time i try do something mildly interesting, there comes fucking programming to fuck it over
fuck it
09:08
@ChemiCalChems what's the target of that fucking cross compiler
@Griwes fucking windows
@ChemiCalChems RIP
which i want to jump off of
ikr
fuck my ass
that's a very specific instruction
is fucking using boost the only way out of this?
i dont fucking wanna use boost!
the fucking STL supports threads since c++11!
09:13
we also use boost threads in our cross-compiled code
oh fucking hell
this sucks way too bad
lol not using boost
oh well
lets fucking get boost then
what if I want type-level folds
@ChemiCalChems It's not called STL, mmkay?
09:28
who cares
@Griwes Under which point does this go?
I don't see any.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Definitions are important.
Precise definitions are important-er.
I think it's precise enough.
It's your fault for insisting on a useless one.
Language is the ability to acquire and use complex systems of communication, particularly the human ability to do so, and a language is any specific example of such a system. The scientific study of language is called linguistics. Questions concerning the philosophy of language, such as whether words can represent experience, have been debated since Gorgias and Plato in Ancient Greece. Thinkers such as Rousseau have argued that language originated from emotions while others like Kant have held that it originated from rational and logical thought. 20th-century philosophers such as Wittgenstein argued...
Calling the standard library "STL" is not useful in any way.
And it's wrong even in the semantic sense, since the standard library has not been just a library with templates for a while now.
09:36
But you knew what he meant when he said "the fucking STL supports threads since c++11!"
I also know what people mean when they misuse other words, and that doesn't stop me from being unhappy about it.
you be unhappy then :P
It's arguable that you're the one misusing the words.
Unless you want to say that you also misuse the word "happy".
(Because originally it didn't mean what you wanted to say; using it for the old meaning is not helpful)
(I just misused the word "word" :P)
So, your goal is to let technical terms evolve the same way natural languages evolve?
That is bad for too many reasons to even enumerate them. :P
It's not a "technical term". It's a historical name.
09:42
It's a name of a very specific library.
Same way, dunno, libpng is a name of a very specific library.
Or Firefox is a name of a very specific web browser.
Which is dead. It only ever means that in the context of digital archaeology.
I'm pretty sure there's still people running original STL in production.
No general purpose software ever really dies.
Even if you use STL to mean what you want, you will be ambiguous.
You need to establish the proper context first.
09:55
hey there are still cobol programs in production
nothing wrong with STL, just some standard library classes
10:43
so quiet ...
@Telkitty post tits
The great tit (Parus major) is a passerine bird in the tit family Paridae. It is a widespread and common species throughout Europe, the Middle East, Central and Northern Asia, and parts of North Africa where it is generally resident in any sort of woodland; most great tits do not migrate except in extremely harsh winters. Until 2005 this species was lumped with numerous other subspecies. DNA studies have shown these other subspecies to be distinctive from the great tit and these have now been separated as two distinct species, the cinereous tit of southern Asia, and the Japanese tit of East Asia...
@Telkitty much better now
A booby is a seabird in the genus Sula, part of the Sulidae family. Boobies are closely related to the gannets (Morus), which were formerly included in Sula. == Description == Boobies hunt fish by diving from a height into the sea and pursuing their prey underwater. Facial air sacs under their skin cushion the impact with the water. Boobies are colonial breeders on islands and coasts. They normally lay one or more chalky-blue eggs on the ground or sometimes in a tree nest. === Name === Their name was possibly based on the Spanish slang term bobo, meaning "stupid", as these tame birds had a habit...
> std::string* serialStr = new string(static_cast<char*>(input->Data()), input->Size());
oh look he uses google protocol buffers
it checks out
11:08
Yo
Xeo
Xeo
Seems that you are internally using "Google protobuf", but the actual question is not clear, where is the problem. Also remember that, std::string doesn't copy literally all the times. Refer Copy On Writeiammilind 42 mins ago
ewww
That's wrooooong
Ell
Ell
Lol
CoW is illegal right?
Recent libstdc++ implementations no longer use cow for std::string.
Where would you get milk?
Not from std::string.
11:15
Cross-process pointer serialization strikes again.
Ell
Ell
Ugh I cannot think clearly
maybe you got up too early
Ell
Ell
Primarily because I'm pretty much implementing a bad build system for a specific task
Ell
Ell
11:46
@Shoe almonds
Or rice
Or hemp
Etc.
11:56
oh so nice to be back at home workstation
all arduinos arrived
quite a lot of hardware :)
> How reliastic it is to be a good both "Front end" and "Back end" website developer? Is it releastically possible? [Hope thisnquestion dosent come off as too stupid]
Good lord
Full stack developer
Empty queue debelober
> And I find bothe front end and back end website development awesome and exciting and fun.
I don't know why this question irritates me so much, but it does
inb4 rightfold trolling random forums
I'm offended!1!!!!!1!
Ven
Ven
Hi
@milleniumbug what is verbibols
baby don't tyep me
don't tyep me
no moand
Ven
Ven
@StackedCrooked wasn't that disallowed in C++11 :/?
@Griwes ?????????????
Please update your Lounge meme database.
@Griwes lol
12:17
I just can't bring myself to edit the title. — Lightness Races in Orbit Feb 22 '13 at 21:19
...is it really that old
ahahahha
> Question Protected by Kretab Chabawenizc
@Griwes ?
Where?
The one under which the comment I linked to is.
Doesn't look protected to me
Oh you mean in the history
Yes.
I was browsing ancient history, thought it was obvious.
Well... it wasn't
12:22
Yes, it apparently wasn't, and I admitted that in the message after which you decided to tell me "fuck you", which isn't very nice of you. :P
I would never do that, what are you talking about?
An SO question has prompted me to actually look into EWG notes for a paper (if statements with initializers) and reminded me of this gem:
> Thomas: for is while as if is for if. You have it for loops.
Oh, and again Bjarne decided that a mostly cosmetic change to a proposal requires more than a day of his time to understand (and I'm not convinced he wasn't in the room when we discussed those exact changes first).
nwp
nwp
12:43
> printf format string '%d' requires an argument of type 'int', but variadic argument 1 has type 'time_t'
why do I have to deal with these things?
Because C needed generic programming facilities and they didn't realize it needed them.
Next!
nwp
nwp
%lld prints ld \o/
> /* the comment above is an EWG hallucination that the future paper author is free to ignore */
I'm constantly in love with this comment.
nwp
nwp
an attempt to cling to sanity?
is it working?
13:08
@sehe What do you think about these statements?
A bug in our build server queued 7000 builds.
eeeegh
7000 ... fail, retry loop?
@nwp let me guess: MinGW using the MSVCRT C89 implementation of printf
oh wait, it's just MSVC
nwp
nwp
13:24
@milleniumbug arm-none-eabi-gcc 4.9.3
VS does it correctly
nwp
nwp
also I wasted like 10 minutes trying to figure out what the .dec section is in an elf file and why it is so big until I understood that it stands for the total size in decimal ... I felt really dumb
@LucDanton neat
that being said we're rolling our own thang at work
@milleniumbug Depends on the version.
I remember being able to use %zu at some point because they reimplemented printf but at some point they decided to use the VS one instead. Not sure which it is currently.
13:35
is that russian or cyrillic
@Abyx lol, wtf?
@KretabChabawenizc both
@KretabChabawenizc Wrong question. Russian and Cyrilic are two orthogonal things.
@orlp There's a baroque feel to it. I like it :)
also who's that Kebab guy?
13:36
@Abyx how can it be both
@wilx so which is it
nwp
nwp
@Abyx Barteks good twin
user1804599
@KretabChabawenizc yes
user1804599
and so is urmom
@KretabChabawenizc I do not know. What I know is that Cyrilic is a script while Russian is a language. You cannot ask either-or question like you did.
I can and in fact I just did
13:38
@KretabChabawenizc OK, you can and you just did. But the question is stupid and makes no sense.
Cyrilic is used by several other countries that do not speak Russian.
Ven
Ven
@Griwes funny how you say that when you're the one who missed the "???????????" Rightfold meme :p
@wilx yeah, of course, like what, america? I was asking a serious question
@KretabChabawenizc Are you being retarded deliberately or is it just your normal state?
jesus fucking christ I ask a question out of curiosity and all I get is aggressivity and contempt? I'm fucking out of here
go get a doctor asap
Ven
Ven
T'as vu à qui tu parles ._.
13:43
@KretabChabawenizc lol
@KretabChabawenizc You are refusing to understand the difference between language and script.
He is being a troll
@wilx your arrogance is not helping
nwp
nwp
@wilx remember your "how not to give a fuck"-training
Once you understand, you will also understand why your question makes no sense.
@nwp I never had one... :(
13:44
IIRC he is cicada
Oh.
Ven
Ven
The-one-that-shall-not-be-named
On another note I'm at the beach and it's still not as salty as twitch chat.
Why do you read twitch chat
@Ven nice, relaxation façon Verveine de Thiel
nwp
nwp
@wilx weird. I distinctly remember you linking to a blog post about learning how not to give a fuck, but now I cannot find it -.-
13:49
@nwp Anything is possible! :)
@Ven I guess that's the result of having rightfold plonked since forever :/
@LucDanton notre père qui êtes aux thieux
Ven
Ven
tg
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