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12:17 AM
Don't fall asleep now
that would be a waste of time
 
self loafing
Fear and Loafing in Las Vegas
 
oh man, that movie
all i remember from watching it many years ago: w-t-f
 
I think it's one of my sister's favorite books
the only line I know from it: "We can't stop here, this is bat country!"
 
12:57 AM
TinyAvr: A sequence of 43 notes consumes 67% of program space
 
1:41 AM
People on twitter talking about my framework.
sniff
I'm so proud.
 
You did good. Btw, did you ever manage to take the back the benchmark the other framework took?
 
@ThePhD Oh hey.
You're not on Discord much. Plenty have missed you :/
 
@Aaron3468 I've gotten neckbreakingly close in all areas. We're superior in most of them, but we still lose out to Macro macro Macro land for C++ function calls.
PNGs are there
I still need to implement the "baseline" line across the graph, indicating the mean performance of the Lua plain C API.
 
Still, the graphs are looking great and tell the story that pretty much everything is fast. Other frameworks are all over the place and sol2's pretty consistent by the look of it :)
 
@sehe If I had kids, I'd put 'em in a pot, mix it up, and create a superkid.
 
2:37 AM
wot
@ThePhD have you plonked nooble? Inquiring koalas want to know.
 
3:00 AM
@sehe Somewhat ironic coming from a guy known almost exclusively for parodies.
 
3:12 AM
@JerryCoffin I think he's aware of that :D
 
@jaggedSpire Oh, uh. I've just bene busyt and forgot to say something!
@Nooble Sorry! I've been busy. Trying to make sure I survive the summer. =/
 
@ThePhD I believe you :)
 
Not a think students usually say. <_>
Usually Summer's about getting a break.
 
poor PhD
so stressed
<insert sinister offer of deal here>
<mention of souls>
<catface>
how are you tolerating it so far?
 
3:42 AM
Sometimes I wish instead of creating C with macros, people would develop a new language when they are clearly pushing the boundaries of what C was designed for T.T (shakes fist at Atmel's AVR division)
 
4:17 AM
ouch. 4GB for /home is a bit small
and good morning lounge btw :-)
 
That... IS tiny. Is like the total size of the thing a 16 GB drive?
 
@ThePhD it's a 40GB VM
not sure I need 8 GB for swap and 28 GB for everything else tho
 
Swap is usually just a mirror of your RAM.
/boot is usually tiny, so...
 
will change partition sizes for the next vm
for now, ln -s will help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
VMs are fun. I use them to test GUI code and check that servers are running properly. On the other hand, I still haven't found a toolchain I like using because I run windows and getting POSIX toolchains set up is a PITA
 
4:25 AM
I'm using Vagrant+VirtualBox for Ubuntu guests on Windows hosts. Works pretty good
 
Maybe for my next machine, I'll install a linux distro as the main OS. I have a mint guest, but it's on my primary machine so there's no space for the guest
 
playing around with CLion, CMake, Clang, Conan...
 
Oh god, and how's that working?
 
pretty well so far - until I found that Poco fucks up if you have a Release/Debug build mismatch -.-
Poco built in Release mode, application built in Debug mode -> Poco sockets won't work
 
Interesting glitch.... Once a framework is set up, it plays nice until you invite new ones to play =.= That's why I'm an advocate of throwing in compiler/interpreter support for most aspects of software design. There's less library/framework conflict if minimum support for everything is natively available
 
4:31 AM
well it seems to be a Poco problem - has nothing to do with any of the 4 "C"s as far as I can tell.
 
Ah, I see
 
I just have to add a prebuild step to Conan install with Debug/Release whenever I change build mode of the app.
so I'm having the libraries I depend on in two versions - and since that includes Boost my ~/.conan directory is at 4.2 GB now oO
 
Sheesh, that's a lot of space (for one project). Have you got an HDD committed to your projects at least, or is it sharing space with your personal data?
 
there is no personal data on that VM. I set it up just for that dev environment
but the host machine has a 480G SSD, so it's ok :-)
ok, time for breakfast.
 
4:59 AM
Nice! I do like the idea of a virtual development machine, if only because it can be distributed very easily without needing reconfiguration to get everything working again
 
> In 1996 Keith Shafer, and several others proposed a solution to the problem of broken URLs. The link to this solution is now broken. Roy Fielding posted an implementation suggestion in July of 1995. The link is now broken.
 
5:35 AM
Developer tools are very useful in browsers. I just changed an informative website from eye-searing fuschia to legible and strain-free off-yellow
 
Ell
6:10 AM
@ThePhD not a thing lazy students say right ;)
 
6:33 AM
Programmer solutions #2: "I need to place binary data into an embedded machine and execute it" "I'll store it in a comma-delimited array and modify it by hand everytime the data changes, or download sketchy .exe files to do it for me"
Whereas someone with more skill might see that the compiler supports including .bin files and add IDE support for uploading them to the machine -.-
And worst of all, the sketchy program is written in PERL
Either way, I'm realizing that the whole AVR system is a bit hacked together. On the bright side, I've got a $2 microcontroller playing a rendition of this song :D
 
nwp
oh noes, functional programming is taking over the world
---
it is pretty neat though
 
Is that a bad thing? I actually found them useful once or twice
 
nwp
they are
I remember someone did a "drill down" function that went something like if (a) if (a->b) if (a->b->c) return a->b->c->d; return nullptr; and the drill down function would be like return drill(a, b, c, d); and have the same effect
horribly hacky
I wonder if that can be made to work properly now
 
Not really
not as a function because this requires b to be a variable, possibly as a macro, but this would be annoying to write
 
nwp
6:49 AM
I think you would need pointer to members for that. And you would want to pass these as types, not as values, due to UB when dereferencing nullptr.
 
return drill(a, &decltype(a)::b, &decltype(decltype(a)::b)::c);
 
@nwp it's just a variadic pack expansion, but for many operators. If /now/ you recognize it as a fold, that's hardly reason to call it a revolution:)
It's actually pretty strange they had pack expansion tied to "comma separation" (not even the operator!) before. Almost PHP level of design smell
@nwp There are several lense/monad libraries. However, the syntax will not be magic in C++
 
nwp
@sehe I'd say it is as revolutionary as lambdas. Can't do anything you couldn't before, but it is finally convenient enough that people actually use it.
 
Xeo
@nwp Nope, still not. Needs []fun stuff to look decent and not need PTMs
Oh hey, got my first new salary
fucking taxes taking away over 40% of it :(
 
Ell
Ouchie
Wow
I wonder what bracket that is vOv
 
Xeo
6:59 AM
before it was "just" over 30%
 
Ell
It's such a cray amount of money to take
 
Xeo
Taxes in general
"added value tax"
I hate the name
You can basically deduct another 19% from the salary thanks to that
 
I think my biggest issue with some languages is that after a certain point, they get in the way of good abstraction. I'm just happy to see C++ getting support for some of those tools
Added value tax? Who's taxing you?
 
@nwp That's quite nicely put. I agree with that.
 
Xeo
Oh, I guess the correct English term is "value-added tax", or "VAT"
 
7:01 AM
@Xeo I'm still waiting for you to someone to push that proposal
 
Xeo
@sehe Isn't there one running right now? @Morwenn would know more
 
nwp
@Xeo 19% of the leftover 60%, so it is effectively 11.4%. Doesn't make it much better though, over half sucks.
 
@Xeo Depends on what you buy obv
Oh cool. <dim-lights-flickering-feebly-in-the-back-of-hollow-eyes/>
There might still be hope?
@nwp Bayes, are you there?
 
Xeo
@sehe Sure, most "necessities" are "only" 7%. But the 19%-added ones outweigh those by a lot, for me, I think.
 
so, I'd call that a blessing.
 
Xeo
7:05 AM
huh?
 
If your spending can be characterized as that, it means you're well off. Like 90% of our society.
 
Xeo
Right, I guess.
And I know a state needs tax money to function
Just a bit salty that over half my stated income goes to that
 
Ell
It shouldn't ever need that much. But I font wanna get into politics :P
 
@Xeo it's 19% of the remaining 60%, so actually only ~11% more.
 
Ell
I'd rather bask in the beautiful English sun
 
7:08 AM
lol
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes its 31 degrees today :D
 
Xeo
7 mins ago, by nwp
@Xeo 19% of the leftover 60%, so it is effectively 11.4%. Doesn't make it much better though, over half sucks.
:P
And yeah, like I said, just a bit salty right now, since I actually kinda need money right now due to paying rent for two flats. But financially, it should still be good.
 
At least you can vote.
 
Ven
Yo
 
@Ell for some reason they seem to always need more than that.
 
nwp
7:15 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes someone said that reason is that as a politician in power you want to have great impact and spend everything and leave your competitor next voting period with nothing. Then you can say "see how much I did and how little the other guy did?".
 
Ven
@sehe to be fair, the syntax is magic in Haskell by virtue of MAKROS
 
nwp
and then they get reelected and have the problem they created, but it doesn't matter, they got reelected
 
@Ven nothing against THOSE
@Xeo Only because you happen to just look at that. Do you know of any well-working alternatives that "charge less"?
Because then you could consider moving, or voting for similar regulations
@nwp they had that problem from the start (statistically speaking)
 
Ell
@nwp maybe that works until the next government publicizes the fact you've left a note saying "there's nothing left, its all gone"
 
Ven
@sehe :D
@sehe (arguably TemplateHaskell is very much safer)
@sehe (but a lot of people dislike TH and thus avoid makeLens'' and the like
 
7:45 AM
Map with two New Zealands imgur.com/7rkpVBW.jpg
 
@Ven I'll await typed template haskell :)
(that's just my excuse to stay inside the c++ bubble)
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's just for tiling your wall paper :)
 
@sehe just need proper voting systems to be in place.
 
Like those in the GOP congress
 
@Xeo Proposal about what?
I failed to extract the topic of the discussion.
 
nwp
something about "[]fun stuff"
 
Ven
7:58 AM
@sehe oh, it's typed, don't get me wrong.
 
Just doIt
or Maybe doIt
 
@nwp Xeo's proposal to lift overload set into lambdas?
 
nwp
I don't know what the "[]fun stuff" is, but I believe thats what the proposal question referred to
 
I know that Andrew Sutton's proposal was rather well-received but had shortcomings that could be fixed by Xeo's proposal.
It will probably be considered again for C++19/20.
 
Ven
\o/ @Morwenn
 
8:06 AM
@ChemiCalChems nevermind I lost 4eur afterwards
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol nice strat
 
but hey I'm totes getting it back
I lost on the USD/CAD Forex, which really looked like the most consistent one
 
Ven
D:
isbartekbrokeyet.com
 
guys I consider the money lost remember
I'm not gonna put in anything more
6
it's a warning to everyone thinking they can make money off of Forex
market always wins
> BINARY OPTIONS
1 Click. 60 Seconds. Profitability up to 91%
what they forgot to add is "Losses up to 100%"
 
Ven
"it doesn't matter if you get a bit of money at first, so long you give it back to us later"
 
8:14 AM
OTOH
if you consider all those people paying real money for slot machine games
and that's literally hundreds $/€ per person
 
@BartekBanachewicz that's the way of losing even more and more and more money
 
statistically some of them would win something at that
7 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
I'm not gonna put in anything more
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh
 
So far the lowest I've been was ~6€
 
@BartekBanachewicz 'Experts' often rate no better than chance.
 
8:22 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes look at the 3rd message at the starboard :P
lol I suppose whoever starred that one doesn't believe me
 
> Customers who like our conditions stay on the platform increasing their investments; it is a great profit for the company. It is clear that one cannot earn big money starting with such a small sum as 10 dollars.
from the CEO of that platform
 
@BartekBanachewicz lel. Consistent gambles
 
@sehe well as in all gambling there are some schemes
 
Oh god.
 
8:26 AM
At least on forex you get statistical analysis and stuff
sure it can be waaay off
but it's not like slot machines where if you were sitting with a piece of paper and pen you'd be kicked out
And if you actually trade on options that are say a week long I think you can use external factors and news to make a decision
trading like the one I was doing, i.e. on 60s options is absolutely random
oh sweet they have web iface
 
@BartekBanachewicz Or it looks kinky. Your pick.
 
Ven
all of the sexual innuendos!
 
nwp
8:43 AM
@Morwenn probably both
 
@BartekBanachewicz Which often perform no better than chance.
If it performs no better than chance, then it is like slot machines.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Cool. They know who to market to!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think the difference is that you can at least try
that was my point
in fantasy league there's a small percentage of people that win
and they are apparently quite consistent
 
Yes. They do it as their job, basically.
 
@BartekBanachewicz They hope you do
 
Ven
8:50 AM
strcpy(input, my_string_ref.to_string().c_str());
amazing code.
 
yawn
okay lost everything
that was fun
 
yihaaah
 
Actually, sometimes slot machines is better than some of those schemes, because in the slot machines you can't do worse than chance.
 
javascript:eval("window.location='http://'+(0.1+0.2)+'.com'")
5
try it
 
Ven
8:59 AM
> Your language isn't broken, it's doing floating point math.
that's broken
 
Ven
very much by design
 
> PHP converts 0.30000000000000004 to a string and shortens it to "0.3"
ahahahhahahah
lol PHP
 
Ven
the Common Lisp one is misleading.
 
@Ven But decay is fun :(
 
Ven
9:00 AM
sure, (+ 0.1 0.2) works, but (- 1.2 1.0) is broken
and we can see Perl 6 works nicely \o/
 
Perl is still terrible
Frankly I am not sure if I consider Perl worse than PHP
they are both strong contenders
both can surprise me constantly with new arguments as to why they should be the worst language ever
 
Ven
not sure anyone asked for your opinion tbh
but go ahead and tell us for the 42342342th time. surely that'll change people's mind
 
fuck anyone using Perl that's around me
if you directly or indirectly make me deal with this crap again you're part of the problem
People choose perl because of people like you who think it's "fun" or "clever" and then I have to deal with it
 
nwp
@Ven backfired :D
 
Ven
I don't believe in either fun or clever code.
Except when I'm explicitly code-golfing things on PPCG
 
@BartekBanachewicz worth a star
 
@sehe star original message instead (orlp's one)
 
Will find it later
 
it's literally 4 messages above
oh also also also
(the whole band not just this track)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Perl is clearly vastly superior. Even if it introduces a shit ton of unwieldy complexity, at least they employ complexity, proving that intellect was involved. BIG difference with PHP
 
Ven
9:25 AM
I like this one ^, but mostly because it goes my way :P.
 
It's the truth. A sad truth depending on where you stand
 
also WOOOO
got an invitation to prepare a two-day C++ course
 
Ven
gg
 
under the umbrella of infoshare.pl
 
Ven
9:26 AM
@sehe "Perl is worse than Python because people wanted it worse" - Larry Wall.
 
I mean on one hand it's C++
on the other it's free dinner
clearly I couldn't decline ;)
 
Ven
That's a nice Stockholm syndrom you got there.
wonder if you made it yourself
 
I like teaching people more than I dislike C++
I wish my uni experience was better so I could become a tutor or something
alas.
 
Ven
Agreed
 
user1804599
become a tumor
 
9:33 AM
@Ven True enough.
 
@BartekBanachewicz So, you mean you dislike people enough to forget you dislike c++ :)
 
lol I sent the confirmation response
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, it's not a dinner course?
 
but forgot to ask about compensation
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
9:35 AM
@BartekBanachewicz How would your uni experience be better if people like you became tutors? Sounds like a mild contradiction to me
 
@sehe kinda sorta
 
(SCNR)
 
@sehe I care
 
@BartekBanachewicz I totes would jump on the opportunity (given a suitable audience)
 
the audience is supposed to already know basics
which I'm not sure is gonna be a good thing
I expect very different ideas of "basics"
btw @Borgleader is vulkan-tutorial.com any good?
at a quick glance it looks solid
 
user1804599
9:39 AM
What is the difference between Vulkan, OpenGL and DirectX?
 
@Bassie Do you want a short answer or a long answer
 
user1804599
I'm fine with either
 
TL;DR
OpenGL 1 = DirectX < 9
OpenGL 2 = DirectX 9
OpenGL 3 = DirectX 10
OpenGL 4 = DirectX 11
Vulkan = DirectX 12
where "=" is "is an open equivalent of"
 
user1804599
rad
 
user1804599
so is Vulkan basically OpenGL 5
 
9:42 AM
yes and no
It is in that it can be seen as a successor of OpenGL 4. It's not in that it shifts the idea of OpenGL in a lot of areas.
 
user1804599
with a different API
 
OpenGL is the API
 
user1804599
is Vulkan an API?
 
DirectX ships more than just the API
@Bassie yes
 
user1804599
super rad
 
9:44 AM
Vulkan is from Khronos and is made by the same people who made OpenGL
 
I came up with the cleverest idea today.
I feel so smart.
 
Ven
protip: don't state you have genius ideas in the lounge if you want to feel smart.
 
user1804599
 
protip: don't be in lounge if you wanna feel smart
 
@Bassie That's smaller than I expected.
 
user1804599
9:49 AM
Well it embeds a lot of other structs.
 
I don't feel smart, but I am surrounded by idiots
 
difference between int *lol and int* lol?
 
Sometimes I really want to tell the other party: you are an idiot, but I am afraid that I would hurt their feelings
 
user1804599
> Vulkan breaks compatibility with OpenGL and completely abandons its one giant monolithic state machine concept.
 
i know they are the same syntactically
but why do people use int *lol?
seems illogical
 
9:50 AM
Good thing is that my dad is a really smart guy
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes +1
 
lol is of type pointer to int, so it should be int* lol imo
 
My uni friends are not too dumb either
 
@ChemiCalChems because of int *a, b;
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh
 
9:51 AM
(yes I also think it's silly)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Reminds me of open.spotify.com/album/4ppIuYDqxBuWlHhh83tkPR
 
but is it well regarded to do int* lol?
 
std::add_pointer<int>::type a, b; :D
 
@Telkitty maybe you should endorse them on linked in
 
@sehe I plan to quit linked in
 
9:53 AM
@Telkitty you might hurt their laughter muscles too, they might be out of training
 
@ChemiCalChems I write it that way if I have to create a raw pointer
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz probably you mean std::add_pointer_t :P.
 
but frankly the whole raw C machinery shouldn't be used directly
 
:31781615 That was nicely meta
 
Ven
:P
 
9:53 AM
@Ven those helpers are so freaking silly
 
@sehe I am glad that I make people happier
 
Ven
You wouldn't dare type a name!
 
@BartekBanachewicz i do the same
i tend not to use raw pointers, of course
but when i do, i do int* lol
 
Ven
I need an idea for a 8-chars LiveScript snippet for codegolf...
 
Am I the first one in the world to come up with
`#define makesurethat(a) if(!(a)){fprintf(stderr,"Not true: %s", "##a##");exit(127);}` ?
 

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